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Author Topic: AMG destination - please read  (Read 11195 times)

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Offline englishgirl

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AMG destination - please read
« on: November 01, 2007, 09:26:58 AM »
seeing as im one of those pesky members who has a problem with AMG being held in the US i thought maybe i should explain fully my reasons for this opinion, and ask you please, please NOT to vote for the AMG to be held in the US.

firstly, the political, cos that's the obvious bit:
i personally feel that we as a group of positive people should not be arranging a gathering in a country which doesnt treat us the same as negative people, any more than i would think it was appropriate to suggest that we hold it in a country whose government declares homosexuality illegal.

now the personal:
the other reason i feel so strongly about it is the effect that traveling to amg this year had on me.

i have travelled the the US before and NEVER on any of these trips have i felt so paranoid and vulnerable as when i was traveling to AMG, due to the fact that it was (in internet terms) a publicised poz event. obviously each time i have to lie on a visa waiver it pisses me off and it upsets me, but most times i feel that the risk of discovery is low to zero. i did not feel this way when travelling to the AMG.

i actually had nightmares about being stopped at immigration due to the authorities knowing that AMG was being held in san fran and that we were staying at the powell and that they had decided to make an example of us. and now it's been and gone and i was ok im worried that im gonna get stopped next time instead due to them having the data after the fact. now i know this all sounds a bit far out conspiracy theorist but would you say there is a 100% no chance it would happen? and why should i and others go through that if we dont have to? and this is before im even on meds. ive gotta say i would never risk it with meds.

the law & the consequences of discovery:
as others have pointed out it is illegal for a positive individual to enter the states on the visa waiver form. in theory a positive person could apply in person to the US embassy for a special visa. should this visa be granted a full page of your passport is marked with a stamp 'HIV+' and of course international records hold your poz status. should someone choose to try to enter without this visa and then be discovered, they would then have committed a felony, immigration fraud, would be repatriated, and would never be permitted to re-enter the US, or any other country which has restrictions on the immigration of felons.

what a ban would mean for me personally:
well, firstly i would possibly lose my job due to my newly acquired criminal status. secondly, i need to travel to the US as a private citizen a couple of times a year. my sister works in the states and one of my best friends lives there. if i were to lose my right to entry i would basically never be able to see my sister, my friend, or her family again unless they come to visit me. especially in terms of my friend, her husband and their baby this is unlikely to be possible.


i got a huge amount out of AMG and would love to be able to come to the next one. its extremely expensive to travel all that way but worth it. i would definitely be prepared to fly to canada or mexico for one, despite the fact that it is very expensive for me to get there. i understand that for a lot of people europe would not be possible financially so that is why i have not suggested it as one of my 2 suggestions. i just wish that people would be as generous with their own considerations of location and not suggest US destinations.

i understand that many of us have financial concerns. but is there that much difference in the price of a flight across the US compared to to canada or mexico? if i can find the £500+ airfare to get to the american continent from GB then surely people can save up/request aid for an extra $100 to get a bit further north or south on the same continent. i certainly dont want to belittle the very real problems that some people encounter so i really hope no-one will take it that way.

we have members here who have attested to the fact that the US travel ban stopped them coming to san fran. i know of at least one member who has previously been caught out and barred from re-entry. of all our non-US members, only a handful attended. and if im correct of us few none are on meds. basically the inference therefore is that if it is in a US destination you are excluding anyone on meds.

we spend a lot of time on these forums going on about community and support but i really dont feel that way when people suggest that AMG be held in the US. basically it reads to me like 'i dont really care if you can come or not so long as im ok'. that means that all us non-americans should just give up now and go make our own support network cos we're not getting any from the states. that is really, really sad. i dont want to only give and receive support to brits or europeans. i want us all to support each other. yes, the majority of people on the forums are in the US, but unless you want it to stay that way and to basically cut off loads of non-US members we need AMG to be outside the states until the visa waiver law is changed.

to refer to something mentioned in another thread, yes AMG is a social gathering. but it is also political by definition if you hold it in the US. by inference it means you support the continuation of the ban, you support lying to the US government, you dont care what risks we foreign pozzies have to go through, you dont care whether we are included in AMG or not.

so i ask you, is the 'community' on this board for residents of the united states only? if it is, feel free to hold it in the states and either leave the rest of us to our own devices or let us run the risk of getting arrested and deported. but if the community on this board is an international community of positive people who support and befriend each other, then lets hold the AMG in a country which we can ALL visit without fear. 
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"I'm not keen on the idea of the afterlife - not without knowing who else will be there and what the entertainment will be. Personally I'd rather just take a rest." Oscar Berger, PWA: Looking AIDS in the Face, 1996. RIP.

Offline Iggy

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2007, 09:47:00 AM »
I want to add something to what Englishgirl has stated for all of us to consider:

1. Those who vote for a U.S. destination, do you do so consciously stating that you are saying that you do not want any non-u.s. member to attend?

2. If you do want them to attend and wish them to risk being caught at customs - What actions are you prepared to follow through with for aiding the members such as refunding their airfares and hotel costs if they are caught  such as a fund for such items?


I want to be clear that I agree that the real risk of being caught is pretty minimal however as a U.S. citizen who is immune to prosecution under this law, I don't think it's fair or my place to just negate it or deem it not valid.




Offline sweetasmeli

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2007, 09:51:58 AM »
How bizarre. Me and Miss EG posted a la same time and we weren't even chatting on the phone!

So for the sake of wearing out my keyboard:

Quote
Even though Iíve been having a bit of a break from the forums lately, Iíve been peeking at this thread (under a certain bossy madamís orders! ;)) with some curiosity to see what will come of the discussion points and issues raised concerning the laws surrounding non-US citizens entering the US.

I personally hadnít thought too long and hard about the legal ramifications of my entering the US until I attended AMG. My personal visits to friends are one thing; the questions at immigration were easy enough to answer without having to lie or sidestep. But attending a gathering of an internet group exclusively made up of HIV+ people, most of whom Iíd never met? Not only did I have to lie, but the line of questioning was harder to sidestep. I admit my stomach was churning somewhat until I made it safely through the check point.

It has been pointed out over and over again by several folk here that to hold AMG in the US means certain members either being excluded (through choosing not to attend because of the laws) or committing a felon and risking all future exclusion from the US. Yet so many members are still voting for the US.

Iím not backward about coming forward and saying what I think and today Iím not going to sugar coat my thoughts with diplomacy.

It seems clear to me that there are many on here that really donít seem to care about the legal predicament that non-US members are being put in (even though they say they do) because they are continuing to vote US regardless of the quandary in question.

I find that quite disappointing and I fully understand certain membersí frustration.

I only have one vote: Any place that doesnít have entry restrictions for HIV+ folk.

Am I being unrealistic here or doesnít that suggestion stand to reason?

Debra
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Offline mjmel

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2007, 09:58:15 AM »
comment withdrawn/not attending
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 02:38:25 PM by mjmel »

Offline pozattitude

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2007, 11:26:00 AM »
I support all my foreign brothers and sisters and I am ashamed of the politics of my country.  My original vote was for 1 US city and 1 Europe destination...maybe I missunderstood but I thought I was to vote for one city in each continent.

Given the nature and bigotry of the current US government I am 100% in favor of having AMG outside the US.  There are other places in the Americas that are very economical for US travel such as the Caribean or Mexico, and Canada is always a great choice..our brothers from the North could teach the US a lesson in humanity.


Rich
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Offline vokz

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2007, 12:22:00 PM »
I think it also worth pointing out that the stress for the likes of Englishgirl does not simply revolve around the immediately obvious personal and financial implications .. nor indeed the indignity that being ďafflicted with a communicable diseaseĒ means that you are categorised as a ďdangerĒ and therefore automatically classified alongside ďterrorists, communists and convictsĒ.

IF you are discovered committing immigration fraud (which is what you are deemed to be committing if you fail to declare your HIV status) then the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (BCIS) has the full legal authority to (and has been known to) detain you indefinitely, without any right to bail or representation by counsel (or communication with any other concerned individual who may be able to help you).

Even if you do decide to apply for an HIV Waiver of Ineligibility (which will almost certainly be refused Ė unless you are on business, visiting close family or getting urgent medical treatment Ė because the "public benefit" in such cases is never deemed to outweigh ďpublic riskĒ) then that waiver is NEVER granted more than 30 days in advance of your proposed travel date .. which means that you either have to book a far more expensive unrestricted ticket (so that you can get a refund when your waiver is refused), or will be booking so late that you simply donít have a hope in hell of getting access to the sorts of fares that have been posted in these forums.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 12:33:01 PM by vokz »

Offline 404error

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2007, 01:39:02 PM »
I can't in good conscience attend anything held in America.  I used to visit the states, somewhat regularly (I'm less than an hour from the border) but since being diagnosed with HIV, I haven't once crossed the border.  No trips to a family cottage (no easter, no thanksgiving), no shopping excursions to Bellingham and certainly no travel by air to somewhere more exotic (for lack of a much better word.)  I refuse to support their economy with my tourist dollars when this is how they treat people living with HIV.  And I can't help but laugh at some of the suggestions for locations people have offered up.  Tennessee?  Texas?!?!  Seriously, Texas?  If ever there was an ass backwards prison state...  I mean going to California like many of you did this year is one thing (especially to San Francisco) but Texas?  Come on...

I will definitely not be attending any sort of gathering that involves gathering in America.  It's just not gonna happen.  When I leave my home for a getaway of some kind, I often enjoy the concept of piece of mind.  No stress, stay in hotel for a few days, people cook and clean for me.  I go out and see the sights, have some drinks, have some laughs and I just pretty much take it all in... Ahhh...  I don't think I'd be able to relax in the same manner in the US.  Sorry, but no America for me.
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2007, 01:57:22 PM »
I am sorry to hear about the hardships of those living outside of the US and didn't really know of any such ban. I don't travel much at all and has never done it abroad. My main concern would be from the financial aspect since all I receive is disability. I have no problem of choosing the AMG to be somewhere else but in all reality, if I don't receive some type of help then it is likely I wouldn't be able to attend no matter where it is.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
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Offline Lisa

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2007, 03:34:07 PM »
I personally have no problem with going to Canada,Mexico, or Amsterdam. If the AMG is to be held outside of US borders, I will likely not be able to atend next year, as I am unable to afford a passport/visa.
I do understand the plight of our non american members, and was worried about each of them as they made their way to the last gathering. I am as upset about the restrictions as the rest of the group, and abhor the fact that our neighbors had to fib about the last gathering.
I would be just as glad to hold the gathering in another country, I just can't afford it if it is.
I am sure we can all find a medium ground here, and handle this with the same love and respect we did when we were in each other's company.

edit/PS- I would love to re-visit the chapel in Montreal again. It was deeply touching.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 03:36:55 PM by Lisa »
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Offline 404error

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2007, 04:56:14 PM »
For the Americans out there worried about travelling without a passport, you can still cross the border into Canada via land and are not required to have a passport to do so.  If the AMG were to be held in Vancouver (for example) you could fly into Seattle and travel two hours north to Vancouver.  You'd save about $200 USD in airfare and there are plenty of shuttle buses leaving daily between SEA-TAC and downtown Vancouver. 
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2007, 05:20:42 PM »
UpAllNight, I may be wrong but I believe the no passport thing changes in summer '08 with both Canada and Mexico.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline englishgirl

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2007, 05:32:36 PM »
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html

LAND AND SEA TRAVEL
The following summarizes information available on the Department of Homeland Securityís website.

JANUARY 31, 2008
U.S. and Canadian citizens will need to present either a WHTI-compliant document, or a government-issued photo ID, such as a driverís license, plus proof of citizenship, such as a birth certificate. DHS also proposes to begin alternative procedures for U.S. and Canadian children at that time.

SUMMER 2008
At a later date, to be determined, the departments will implement the full requirements of the land and sea phase of WHTI. The proposed rules require most U.S. citizens entering the United States at sea or land ports of entry to have either a U.S. passport; a U.S. passport card; a trusted traveler card such as NEXUS, FAST, or SENTRI; a valid Merchant Mariner Document (MMD) when traveling in conjunction with official maritime business; or a valid U.S. Military identification card when traveling on official orders.

The implementation date will be determined based on a number of factors, including the progress of actions undertaken by the Department of Homeland Security to implement the WHTI requirements and the availability of WHTI compliant documents on both sides of the border. DHS and DOS expect the date of full WHTI implementation to be in the summer of 2008. The precise implementation date will be formally announced with at least 60 days notice.
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"I'm not keen on the idea of the afterlife - not without knowing who else will be there and what the entertainment will be. Personally I'd rather just take a rest." Oscar Berger, PWA: Looking AIDS in the Face, 1996. RIP.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2007, 05:50:08 PM »
Thanks darling.  I'll also add that if anyone here does not currently have a passport and plans on obtaining one, the processing time will assuredly get longer the closer we get to that vague summer date.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline englishgirl

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2007, 06:18:59 PM »
current cost of US passport = $97
it goes up by about $100 if you want it expedited

travel.state.gov/pdf/DS-0011.pdf
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"I'm not keen on the idea of the afterlife - not without knowing who else will be there and what the entertainment will be. Personally I'd rather just take a rest." Oscar Berger, PWA: Looking AIDS in the Face, 1996. RIP.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2007, 06:28:43 PM »
Indeed, and mine expires in February.  Doubly sucks because my picture in it is from 1998 right before my faces sunk in from lipo :(
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline englishgirl

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2007, 06:33:08 PM »
Indeed, and mine expires in February.  Doubly sucks because my picture in it is from 1998 right before my faces sunk in from lipo :(
faces? you have more than one face??? oh my god i havent heard of THAT side effect before - now im really worried!!!
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"I'm not keen on the idea of the afterlife - not without knowing who else will be there and what the entertainment will be. Personally I'd rather just take a rest." Oscar Berger, PWA: Looking AIDS in the Face, 1996. RIP.

Offline heartforyou

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2007, 06:39:47 PM »
I can fully understand your  point englishgirl.

I am changing my vote to Vancouver.

Love you dear

Hermie
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2007, 06:44:36 PM »
faces? you have more than one face??? oh my god i havent heard of THAT side effect before - now im really worried!!!

Obviously a typo, but if you want to discuss my sunken butt cheeks I'm game, and we can make that my second face.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline David_CA

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2007, 08:36:02 PM »
faces? you have more than one face??? oh my god i havent heard of THAT side effect before - now im really worried!!!

I've noticed several members here in these forums with two faces... and they talk out of both sides of their mouth too.  Philly, EG (short for Englishgirl) I'm not referring to you guys, BTW.

David
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Offline Winiroo

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2007, 09:03:06 PM »
Obviously Texas would be convenient for me considering I live there.
If traveling to the US is a big problem for those who live abroad I'm curious if it would be possible to hold two AMG events. One in the US and one outside.


Offline David_CA

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2007, 09:24:17 PM »
Obviously Texas would be convenient for me considering I live there.
If traveling to the US is a big problem for those who live abroad I'm curious if it would be possible to hold two AMG events. One in the US and one outside.

Don't even go there!  Read the other thread about voting on a location and you'll see how well it went over when I suggested it!  (just a friendly warning)

David

Edited to add welcome to the forums, Winiroo!
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Offline Winiroo

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2007, 09:28:06 PM »
Thanks David. Guess I jumped before looking too hard.

What ever, where ever, whom ever decides I'll deal with their decision.

Hope no one verbally knocks my head off. LOL

Wendy

Offline perspiry

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2007, 10:29:21 PM »
I'm truly embarrassed because I thought the ban was supposed to have been lifted in the last year or so...

Did I dream that up or did our U.S. government screw up again?

The odds I'd attend a meeting anywhere are roughly .00000000000000000000000000000000000000001% for (nothing personal, I don't like to travel) but holding another AMG in the USA unless the absurd law is rescinded is insupportable. 

Easy for me to say since I won't be there but on principle alone I wouldn't go to a meeting in the USA which required some attendees to take such risks. 

JA

« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 11:03:40 PM by perspiry »
If I'd been thinking I would have chosen Tangina as my forum moniker.

Offline naftalim

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2007, 12:37:34 AM »
Wow, I didn't realize that this topic was in motion, haven't been on in a couple of days.

I agree with English Girl regarding the USA. I live in Vancouver and have had to go to the US on business several times since being diagnosed and taking meds and IT WAS VERY STRESSFUL, and this is without having to get a Visa. Obviously, living in Vancouver, it would be nice to have the AMG here, but I'm open to Europe. I may be wrong, but I think flights to Europe from Canada can sometimes be cheaper than going East to West in North America.

So, if it will be in Vancouver, I am willing to help in any way I can.


Offline 404error

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2007, 03:17:12 PM »
Quote
I may be wrong, but I think flights to Europe from Canada can sometimes be cheaper than going East to West in North America.

When I lived in the GTA, it was cheaper to fly from Toronto to either Manchester or London than it was to fly to Vancouver.  Two years ago I went to Europe (via Amsterdam) and my ticket round trip was less than $850 CDN.  I've flown from Vancouver to Toronto where it's cost me over $500.  Air travel within Canada is ridiculous.
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline Ric Wilke

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2007, 09:45:08 PM »
Niki aka englishgirl (the UK gal who wanted us to adopt her at AMG 07),

Your nit picking as earned you a "Ignore" spot on my list.  I suggest you put on your big girl panties and just deal with it!


Offline thunter34

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2007, 10:31:29 PM »
Niki aka englishgirl (the UK gal who wanted us to adopt her at AMG 07),

Your nit picking as earned you a "Ignore" spot on my list.  I suggest you put on your big girl panties and just deal with it!



Ric,

Hon, you know I love you to pieces, but I simply can't get behind you on a post like this.  I adore Niki also, but I still had to say something when I thought her emotions were overtaking her in these discussions.  I think that has been true for nearly all of us, actually. 

I have to say this is too much, darling.  Beneath all this heated discussion is a very real and very legitimate concern.  Even if none of our members had an issue lying, even if none of them had any problems before or had any fears about it for their futures, it would still be something valid for this board to consider - on principle alone.

Most basically stated:  Don't be angry at the members here.  Be angry about the legislation.  (That goes for all of us, btw.)

Lovin' You,

Tim Hunter
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 10:35:01 PM by thunter34 »
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Cliff

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2007, 03:55:08 AM »
Ric,

Niki extended her hand out to you, not in this thread but the other one.  I think we all should just simmer down and just let this issue go for a while.  I don't think it's going to impact the voting (I wonder if some people are put off voting because of all this drama).  This will pass and we will find our way through it.

Cliff

Offline englishgirl

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2007, 06:31:33 AM »
Niki aka englishgirl (the UK gal who wanted us to adopt her at AMG 07),

Your nit picking as earned you a "Ignore" spot on my list.  I suggest you put on your big girl panties and just deal with it!
nice to see that ric has respected everyone's requests not to let this discussion get personal...
ACT NOW TO CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE TRAVEL BAN:
http://campaigning.tht.org.uk/cms/cmsloader?WfJVLp&view=11,301,1385,0,-html

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=17352.0


"I'm not keen on the idea of the afterlife - not without knowing who else will be there and what the entertainment will be. Personally I'd rather just take a rest." Oscar Berger, PWA: Looking AIDS in the Face, 1996. RIP.

Offline emeraldize

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2007, 07:42:13 AM »
This is one of those times and one of those topics about which I scratch my head and wonder why we, the alleged "community" here doesn't galvanize and have a thread in AIDS Activism to encourage and enable lobbying current US legislation on the entry of visitors with HIV. HAPPILY EDITED TO NOTE and QUOTE from Englishgirl we do babe - i started it a few days ago: http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16829.0

I, too, thought, erroneously, the legislation was passed this year allowing positive visitors time-limited entry. This is fucking bullshit if it didn't. After I post this, I'll go doublecheck what I read earlier this year and try to understand what I evidently missed or when I missed it.

How many of you read MtDs thread about the Iranian 21 yr old who's facing imminent execution due to alleged homosexual behavior at age 13? Did you go to Kate's links about ways to contact Iranian officials? I added a post after following Kate's lead to note that it took less than three minutes to do such a thing (even customizing the template letter) because I think lots of people don't do such things because it will take too much time.

Ironically, all of us can look to the upper left of the screen to see how many DAYS we've spent on this site. I'm slightly embarrassed to have spent the equivalent of a US vacation here. Surely, we can do more, collectively, as a community to address Amnesty Intl. types of issues or closer to the point, US visitor visa issues.

The US doesn't host medical conferences dealing with HIV/AIDS because of this visa issue---because so many positive people, in addition to med and pharma types, attend such meetings. Our top docs, scientists, etc. go to Canada, Australia, Spain and on and on because of our Fred Flintstone thinking. This is fucked up. Off the charts, BIG fucked up!

I'm frustrated and disappointed we are not doing more than busily posting, perhaps getting unnecessarily vexed, discussing traveling, picking hotels and airlines, picking fights, picking our noses, etc. while others in the world, positive or not, are starving, dying, abused, neglected, unmedicated, unrecognized and living in realities we cannot begin to imagine.

I do not know what it is like not to have clean drinking water. I am 53 years old and I have never NOT had clean water available. I have always had a piece of clean clothing nearby and food to eat every single day I've been alive. Add to that, I've had access to transportation, school of all levels, jobs--whether minimum wage or better,housing, medicine and more.

Most of us posting, for certain I can state I, live in Disney World by comparison to what 100's of millions of people face every day. We have access to power(electrical), computers, our bellies are full, our brains get enough glucose to form thoughts and engage in discourse, our asses have sufficient padding to allow us to park in our chairs in front of our keyboards and we have hands! No one's severed our hands so we can actually express ourselves with the written word.

And yet, we don't act. We don't even discuss acting.

I know the forums provide all sorts of support to all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons, but I truly wish that the Activism thread had some serious blood flowing through its veins, that if a serious pursuit of any sort were asserted no one would assert their silly ego-gratification needs, or grandstand and either get involved or stay the fuck off on the sidelines and lurk. And maybe via lurking become inspired.

There are all sorts of things we could be doing. I don't pretend to know all that we could make an impact upon. But given that we have an international community here, and some bona fide brainiacs with enough spirit and insight to introduce topics worthy of collective acknowledgement and effort, why can't we use it? I'm tired of not engaging here. It's like sludge sometimes. I'm betting there are some people who would post here who never dip down into the social, lite stuff here because it's of virtually zero interest.

I love the laughs that abound in the forums, abhor the ignorance and question the motives of some folks at times, but mostly I'm deadly serious about what HIV/AIDS has done to us as individuals and is doing to the world of us. I spoke recently with an HIV researcher a couple months ago, and she said to me " We will be judged in the future by how we handle HIV/AIDS."  I believe it. And it was when Dachshund posted the Holbrooke article noting 12,000 new infections worldwide per day that I decided I can no longer be quiet or passive about HIV/AIDS. TWELVE THOUSAND NEW INFECTIONS WORLDWIDE PER DAY SOMETHING IS RADICALLY AWRY and 90% OF THEM WON'T DISCOVER IT UNTIL THE YEAR 2015 AFTER THEY'VE UNWITTINGLY FUCKED A BUNCH OF FOLKS AND PASSED IT ALONG. That moved me.

What moves you? What would move you to action in regard to HIV/AIDS? Housing? Funding? Access to meds? Discrimination? Anything? Can you envision actually doing something to help a world woefully in need of so much?

What will move you to lobby the US about legislation so no argument ever has to ensue again about where and when we're going to jet off to attend an AMG?

So, back to this Sunday morning start of mine. We are lucky to be in touch with one another. No matter where AMG '08 can be held, should be held or is held, I hope this is the impetus for empathy and education which leads to effort of some form to correct the very issues that are causing this site selection angst. Or, to use Tim's words " Be angry about the legislation." Not with each other.

Em

« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 06:06:31 PM by emeraldize »

Offline heartforyou

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2007, 09:52:08 AM »
Thank you Em
Diagnosed in 1987 and still kicking
Viread, Kivexa (Epzicom),Viramune once daily

Happiness is the freedom of breathing fresh air every day.

Offline englishgirl

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2007, 12:55:56 PM »
This is one of those times and one of those topics about which I scratch my head and wonder why we, the alleged "community" here doesn't galvanize and have a thread in AIDS Activism to encourage and enable lobbying current US legislation on the entry of visitors with HIV.
we do babe - i started it a few days ago: http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16829.0

unfortunately some people appear to have taken what i and others have had to say on this matter as 'america-bashing' or troublecausing and have decided they'd rather have a barney, throw insults around and put me on ignore.

no wonder we dont have any rights. if this is how we treat our own what hope is there?
ACT NOW TO CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE TRAVEL BAN:
http://campaigning.tht.org.uk/cms/cmsloader?WfJVLp&view=11,301,1385,0,-html

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=17352.0


"I'm not keen on the idea of the afterlife - not without knowing who else will be there and what the entertainment will be. Personally I'd rather just take a rest." Oscar Berger, PWA: Looking AIDS in the Face, 1996. RIP.

Offline emeraldize

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2007, 05:51:47 PM »
Hey Niki Babe

Edited to note, in fact, I HAD seen it and posted a thanks to you for doing so. So, as the teens say here, " my bad " --- I blanked and now I'm back with your post and a thoughtful PM from another member.

I'll be contributing effort, I assure you. We have enough AM member power on this side of the Atlantic and Pacific that we ought to be able to make a significant noise.

By the way, "have a barney" is an interesting phrase.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 05:58:02 PM by emeraldize »

Offline perspiry

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2007, 05:05:10 PM »
...unfortunately some people appear to have taken what i and others have had to say on this matter as 'america-bashing' or troublecausing and have decided they'd rather have a barney, throw insults around and put me on ignore...

As a life-long Amurrican I advise you to ignore them if you can, for some see any question or statement about the USA which doesn't wave a small red, white, and blue flag madly in one's face as anti-American.  I believe the majority of us forum U.S.A.ers agree with you completely.

When you're right you're right.

Cheers, as they say in your neck of the woods.

JA
If I'd been thinking I would have chosen Tangina as my forum moniker.

Offline RAB

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2007, 09:09:04 PM »
As a life-long Amurrican I advise you to ignore them if you can, for some see any question or statement about the USA which doesn't wave a small red, white, and blue flag madly in one's face as anti-American.  I believe the majority of us forum U.S.A.ers agree with you completely.

When you're right you're right.

Cheers, as they say in your neck of the woods.

JA

JUST FOR THE RECORD!

Ric (who was the unnamed individual that EG was referring to) has taken responsibility for his part in all of this:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16906.0


It always takes two (3?) in a situation of conflict. 

No one (when you really analyze the facts) is right or wrong.

We are all struggling with a wide variety of issues, circumstances, and realities.

IMHO

RAB

Offline perspiry

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Re: AMG destination - please read
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2007, 11:34:21 PM »
JUST FOR THE RECORD!
...
It always takes two (3?) in a situation of conflict. 

No one (when you really analyze the facts) is right or wrong.

We are all struggling with a wide variety of issues, circumstances, and realities.

IMHO

RAB

Don't know why you quoted me but, just for the record, I stand by my post.  I read Ric's post in this thread tonight for the first time and if englishgirl was referring solely to him I didn't/don't know it. 

I was reacting to a few posts I've read here and related threads and englishgirl's specific remark about "some people" acting as if her quite legitimate question about holding gatherings in a country which denies entry to HIV+ foreigners is "USA bashing" or whatever she called it.  As I view it her question is not really about the USA but about the shameful practice in any country of refusing to allow poz people visas to visit. 

I realize a majority of forum members probably live in the USA and many, including me, live on budgets which make expensive travel a problem or impossible.  Our financial realities don't change the fact other forum members who wish to attend gatherings must decide if they want to risk being caught and branded as criminals if gatherings are held in the USA.   

I wasn't looking at this as a conflict but as addressing a very real issue for non-USA members who wish to attend AM gatherings.  Until the USA's asinine policy is rescinded I believe it is right to hold gatherings in another country.   This analogy is by no means good but it would be somewhat like proposing to hold a GLBT gathering in Saudi Arabia -- I don't want to go to a country which makes an important aspect of my life a crime and in which I might be legally detained as a criminal.   

I meant no insult to Ric or anyone else who holds a different opinion but I truthfully cannot draw any other conclusion than that ALL forum members have the right to attend an AM gathering in a country which allows us all to enter it.  This stance obviously excludes the USA as the site of a gathering and that's a real problem for many but holding the event here presents equal or even greater problems for non-US residents. 

As I admitted before, however, this is a purely academic exercise because I haven't traveled in years and don't plan to travel any time in the future if I can help it (except possibly to San Francisco).  I might feel differently if I planned to attend a gathering but I seriously doubt it.

JA
If I'd been thinking I would have chosen Tangina as my forum moniker.

 


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