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Author Topic: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE  (Read 59070 times)

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Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2007, 12:50:04 AM »
Only 2 choices?  I hate it when that happens...
1. Vancouver- heard you can buy medical marijuana in many stores and cafes.
2.  Mexico- except Ko Ko Roo.

Golly gee, I can't believe I just said "golly gee" I could be easily convinced to change my vote to Amsterdam, or London, Athens, Paris, Berlin, Lisbon, or Madrid.  Have the best day
Michael

Offline vokz

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2007, 04:09:35 AM »
Amsterdam or Liverpool

Offline Optimistic

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2007, 06:59:48 AM »
1) Boston, MA
2) Key West, FL

Justin
12/06 (Atripla): cd4 - 260; cd% - 33%; vl - 169
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12/07 (Atripla); cd4 - 517

Offline Jerry71

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2007, 11:13:52 AM »
I know I stated that I would not attend AMG08 but my choice if I went would be.

1. Chicago

2. Nashville

Offline AMG Coordinator

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2007, 11:32:44 AM »
With Amsterdam receiving the most mention, I thought I'd do some research.  This is no way meant to influence votes but rather help everyone make an informed decision. 

I quickly checked airfare from New York City to Amsterdam on the following dates.

September 10 - 15  $679
September  3 -  8    $728
September 17 - 22  $679

Hotels are hovering in the $200 per night range for basic accommodations.  This is not taking into account any group discount I may be able to obtain.


Offline carousel

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2007, 11:48:08 AM »
Can't help feeling that the above is an attempt to influence the vote, no matter how helpful it was intended.

Offline thunter34

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2007, 11:56:37 AM »
Can't help feeling that the above is an attempt to influence the vote, no matter how helpful it was intended.

Hogwash.  I think the coordinator is just doing what he says he's doing:  presenting information based on the results presented thus far.

The States would financially be more realistic for me, but either London or Amsterdam would be splendid choices for overseas.

Carousel, I don't see that you have actually placed a vote to be influenced against.  Have you?  If so, what is it?
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline carousel

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2007, 12:00:15 PM »
As I'm not allowed in the USA without having to disclose my status, or risking being banned as many have previously mentioned, my vote would for Europe.  Amsterdam.




edited for clarification
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 12:11:12 PM by carousel »

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2007, 12:13:35 PM »
Well, speaking for myself I found that the post would "influence" votes too.  Hopefully thunter34 can cyber-slap me and make me see the errors of my ways.  :)

That said, I wasn't sure which was the "influence" was supposed to be working, but I digress.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline thunter34

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2007, 12:20:37 PM »
As I'm not allowed in the USA without having to disclose my status, or risking being banned as many have previously mentioned, my vote would for Europe.  Amsterdam.
edited for clarification

Yeah.  I peeked and saw you also mentioned Madrid.  All of the overseas places are wonderful.  I just don't know how I'd ever financially make such a trip.  But even if I can't go, I support the notion of placing it in range of those members who are over there...not only for the legal reasons, but in the interest of financial fairness.  There was a sizeable group from the UK at AMG 2007 whose presence enriched that trip immensely.  So even if I couldn't make it over, I still wouldn't be crying foul if that's the decision that's reached.

Maybe I'm wrong about the "influence" thing.  I just saw it in response to the prevailing responses thus far.  That said, some posted airfares for some of the other locations would be in order now I guess- for a more balanced perspective.

So both of you can slap me instead. 

Harder.   Ooh, yeah....that's how I like it.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline vokz

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2007, 12:29:26 PM »
What do you call "basic" accommodation? It has taken me all of around 30 seconds to find deals (with reputable hotel chains) in central Amsterdam for closer to $100 (£50/ 65 Euros) per twin room / night.

Offline David_CA

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2007, 12:32:03 PM »
I haven't voted yet... believe it or not, I'm still checking flight prices, weather, transportation, etc for a few places. I do have a few questions / points:
 
1) How many voting have any intention at all of attending if it's held in North America or held abroad instead?
2) What's the language barrier going to be like... in Amsterdam, for example?
3) We don't live in NYC, so those prices aren't really relevant for us (I know it was just an example).  Here are some flight prices from here in NC to:
   -Amsterdam (via Philadelphia):  $818
   -Chicago: $218
   -Boston: $234
   -Vancouver: $572
   -Toronto: $593
   -Mexico City: $548
   -Seattle: $380
   -London:  $851
   -Los Angeles: $352

All rates are from www.sidestep.com for the dates of Sept. 10-15, 2008.  I realize these prices are not valid for anybody leaving from a different city, but it gives an idea of the differences in prices for various destinations.  Folks may want to consider what their ticket will cost when voting.  I know that both hubby and I can travel to Chicago or Boston and pay for half of our lodging for what one ticket to Amsterdam or London would cost.  Unless somebody can cover our tickets to those non-US locations, we won't be able to attend.  If I can't attend, I don't see that my vote should effect those who can.

Based on this, I'm going to have to vote for xxxxxxxxxxxx.  If this in any way influences anybody... good.  The simple economics influenced me.  Perhaps this also shows the need for a European AMG, which is often talked about but doesn't seem to get anywhere.

David

(edited to remove location vote)
(edited again to add location vote)

If there is a European AMG, anywhere is fine, as I (and I assume others) won't be able to attend due to cost.  In this case I'd vote for a smaller US gathering in Chicago, Boston, San Diego, or San Francisco.
If there's not a European AMG, then I'd vote for Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver.  I realize these are three choices.  I added Vancouver since we've not held an AMG there yet, but it's third since generally the most expensive to fly to and adds time and additional stops to the trip European travelers are making.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 10:31:12 AM by David_NC »
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline David_CA

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2007, 12:33:48 PM »
What do you call "basic" accommodation? It has taken me all of around 30 seconds to find deals (with reputable hotel chains) in central Amsterdam for closer to $100 (£50/ 65 Euros) per twin room / night.

If I'm not mistaken, proximity to public transportation, restaurants, and a 'friendly' area are also considered in the lodging choice. 
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2007, 12:41:40 PM »


So both of you can slap me instead. 

Harder.   Ooh, yeah....that's how I like it.

... but can I wear lingerie?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Cliff

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2007, 12:44:00 PM »
Ä65 sounds a bit low for central AMS.    We do have standards!   ;D

I wonder if it's worth first considering whether or not AMG should be split into a US domestic event and an international one.

While I do agree that listing the flight costs could be seen as an "influence" on selections, I don't think it's out of bounds.  This was done last year.  I believe Vancouver was the front runner, but then someone did some airfare research and found that flights to Vancouver from most US cities (as well as abroad) were expensive ($400+), and because of that the city lost support.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2007, 12:51:28 PM »

I wonder if it's worth first considering whether or not AMG should be split into a US domestic event and an international one.

Indeed, I thought that this was the "consensus" issue in the initial thread a month ago that we would decide this BEFORE voting on locations.  That seems to have been chucked out the window, doesn't it?

I still think listing only one destinations financial considerations mid-way through a vote is... odd.  Why not do it for four scenarios, and make them broad estimates?  Europe, Canada, US mid-west or something.  Anyway, I think most people realize that Chicago will cost $750 max for airfare, hotel and food and Europe will be double that (or more).  Canada is no longer a bargain for US residents at all, nothing is...

Warren Buffet just predicted a recession to, if we're not already in one in the US.  I'd say by next year money will be quite tight for those of us already currently in a tight situation.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2007, 12:57:23 PM »

2) What's the language barrier going to be like... in Amsterdam, for example?


None, from what I recall though I will admit my last visit there was 20 years ago.  It's like Stockholm... even 16 year olds at the cash register in McDonald's speak good English -- it isn't like Paris.

Oh, and just some advice from a native:  always avoid a connecting flight in Philadelphia if at all possible... the airport is notoriously always delayed with flights, and you always have to go in/out of separate security points when moving among a couple of the six terminals, and we're not talking about large terminals.  It's the worst layout of an airport I've ever encountered for a major US city, unless they've made a recent change that I don't know about.  At the very least schedule yourself with ample extra time.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AMG Coordinator

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2007, 01:03:50 PM »
Allow me to reiterate...my intentions are not to influence anyone's vote.  I am doing no more influencing than our friends against a US AMG.  In fact, an open vote such as this is influential.  

I am not only the coordinator but also a travel professional and feel it is my responsibility to help the group make informed decisions.  Take the information and do with it what you will.  I could have easily researched other US based cities and shown how inexpensive they are.  NYC was used as a starting ground for flights to Amsterdam considering most flights from the US will connect in NYC.

I am very well aware that cheap accommodations can be found in Amsterdam.  I am also aware of the needs and expectations of our members.   Especially those that will be traveling from the USA where hotel accommodations are a bit different than what you find in Europe.

In contrast, I am beginning to see how a Europe AMG may be possible with some fresh ideas as it may relate to fundraising and the grants committee.  

Please continue to vote as you see fit.



Can't help feeling that the above is an attempt to influence the vote, no matter how helpful it was intended.

Offline David_CA

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2007, 01:04:28 PM »
... even 16 year olds at the cash register in McDonald's speak good English -- it isn't like Paris.
Or even parts of the US, for that matter!   :D
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Iggy

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2007, 01:09:28 PM »
Indeed, I thought that this was the "consensus" issue in the initial thread a month ago that we would decide this BEFORE voting on locations.  That seems to have been chucked out the window, doesn't it?

I'm not certain what happened to that either.  It would certainly take care of any concerns that I have about asking non-U.S. citizens to risk breaking U.S. laws.

I still think listing only one destinations financial considerations mid-way through a vote is... odd.  Why not do it for four scenarios, and make them broad estimates?  Europe, Canada, US mid-west or something. 

Agreed again. 

Modified:  I think Boston was mentioned as the leading U.S. contender (I may be wrong)  Why not show the costs for flights to Amsterdam/Boston from points in US/Europe/Australia/Latin Anerica.   That would be fair and unbiased.  Just listing what it costs a U.S. citizen to go to Amsterdam is in my opinion made to influence U.S. votes and ignores what it costs non-U.S. citizens to travel here.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 01:13:54 PM by Iggy »

Offline mjmel

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2007, 01:17:35 PM »
votes withdrawn/not attending
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 02:37:06 PM by mjmel »

Offline AMG Coordinator

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2007, 01:22:51 PM »
If members from Europe were interested in gathering in the USA I would have researched and posted flights from Europe to Boston.  

Considering most of the votes for Amsterdam came from members based in the US I did what I would do for any of my customers to help them make an informed decision.  


Offline allanq

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2007, 01:23:18 PM »
Here's a thought about London as a possible location for the AMG.

During academic breaks (late June through August), you can book rooms in the dormitories of the University of London, which is in an excellent central London location. Daily breakfast and dinner (cafeteria style) are included.  

I have a friend who booked a theater tour from the U.S. and stayed there for ten days. He said the accommodations were fine and the location great. Some of the rooms had private baths.

This doesn't eliminate the high cost of airfare from the U.S., but it would bring down the cost of a European AMG.

In order to do this, the AMG would have to be held during the summer months.

Here's the website: http://www.london.ac.uk/halls.html

The website does not provide specific rates. You need to contact the residence halls directly by e-mail.

Allan

« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 01:32:09 PM by allanq »
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Center: Alprazolam (Xanax)
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Offline David_CA

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #73 on: October 31, 2007, 01:25:25 PM »
I think it's a bit much to ask Dennis to research flights to a bunch of destinations from a bunch of locations.  His post, in part, is what prompted me to research what tickets would cost us.  The link that I posted is to is a for a site that's easy to use, gives prices for various airlines, and is easy to modify to different destinations. 

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #74 on: October 31, 2007, 01:34:24 PM »
David, nobody asked Dennis to research anything.  We merely were questioning the insertion, midway through the vote, of only one location.

I think everyone here knows how to look up flight prices on teh intrawebz.   I have no doubt that there was anything nefarious in his intentions, but it still can unquestionably color someone's voting.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline David_CA

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #75 on: October 31, 2007, 01:42:41 PM »
David, nobody asked Dennis to research anything.  We merely were questioning the insertion, midway through the vote, of only one location.

I think everyone here knows how to look up flight prices on teh intrawebz.   I have no doubt that there was anything nefarious in his intentions, but it still can unquestionably color someone's voting.

No problem.  I just didn't get the feeling that many had done this, which could have an influence on where they vote for it to be held.
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline 404error

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #76 on: October 31, 2007, 02:04:02 PM »
Quote
1. Vancouver- heard you can buy medical marijuana in many stores and cafes

There are two medical marijuana dispensaries in Vancouver.  The weed is of the highest quality but is over priced.  There is no discount in buying in bulk, it's the same price down the line, gram by gram.  I used to be a regular user of these shops when I first enrolled as it was something of a novelty.  However, that passed and I went back to buying from contacts.  There's no way I'm paying more than $50 for a quarter or $120 for an oz.  You can also smoke weed wherever you want to in the city.  With all the hardcore addiction to things like; crack, meth, and heroin the poilice really don't care about a little marijuana.
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Offline pozattitude

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #77 on: October 31, 2007, 02:15:47 PM »
There's no way I'm paying more than $50 for a quarter or $120 for an oz. 

That's cheap.....try no less than $45 for an 1/8 here in San Francisco....lol

I changed my mind...let's go to Vancouver.....LOL
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Offline manchesteruk

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #78 on: October 31, 2007, 04:22:17 PM »
I quickly checked airfare from New York City to Amsterdam on the following dates.

September 10 - 15  $679
September  3 -  8    $728
September 17 - 22  $679

London to New York City

September 10 - 15  £376 ($781)
September  3 -  8   £376 ($781)
September 17 - 22  £376 ($781)

Here are some flight prices from here in NC to:
   -Amsterdam (via Philadelphia):  $818
   -Chicago: $218
   -Boston: $234
   -Vancouver: $572
   -Toronto: $593
   -Mexico City: $548
   -Seattle: $380
   -London:  $851
   -Los Angeles: $352

All quotes from same website on same dates.  Flying from London.

Amsterdam:  £76 ($158)
Chicago: £434 ($902)
Boston: £381 ($792)
Vancouver: £538 ($1,118)
Toronto: £472 ($981)
Mexico City: £651 ($1,353)
Seattle: £501 ($1,041)
Los Angeles: £479 ($995)





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Online Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #79 on: October 31, 2007, 04:34:15 PM »
London is about double what it was 7 years ago when I used to fly out of NYC there regularly.

Of course, all prices are off once Dubya drops a couple bombs on Tehran.  Gas prices will immediately double.
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Offline englishgirl

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #80 on: October 31, 2007, 05:34:15 PM »
Amsterdam:  £76 ($158)
Chicago: £434 ($902)
Boston: £381 ($792)
Vancouver: £538 ($1,118)
Toronto: £472 ($981)
Mexico City: £651 ($1,353)
Seattle: £501 ($1,041)
Los Angeles: £479 ($995)
plus altho these flights are from london we'd be flying out of manchester which immediately adds at least another £150/$300

at this point it appears timely to point out that personally i offered the suggestion of the non-US american continent rather than the european out of consideration of the cost implications for our american members.

anyone want to note the difference in price between amsterdam and (eg) vancouver? yes, that's right, i am prepared to offer to pay nearly A THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE in flight costs to see you guys on your own continent. all i am asking in return is that you find a couple hundred dollars more to go a bit further up or down your own continent so that youre not asking me to COMMIT A FELONY in order to see you all.

and in case you were wondering i am not rich, a thousand dollars is a huge amount of money for me. a flight anywhere long haul is. clearly amsterdam would be much more affordable for me than canada/mexico. but out of consideration for the others who say there is no way they could afford to come to europe i would try to do it. im still paying off my san fran flight & hotel costs now. and more importantly still paranoid about the potential ramifications of having illegally entered the US to attend a publicised (on the internet) poz event. 
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Offline MSPspud

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #81 on: October 31, 2007, 05:34:58 PM »
1.  Chicago
2.  Amsterdam

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #82 on: October 31, 2007, 05:46:36 PM »
my blood pressure is rising
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Offline englishgirl

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #83 on: October 31, 2007, 05:59:51 PM »
my blood pressure is rising
not as much as mine did going thru immigration on the way to san fran...
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Online Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #84 on: October 31, 2007, 06:11:32 PM »
not as much as mine did going thru immigration on the way to san fran...
I told you to stock up on klonopin, darling.  Takes the edge off as you pass the Praetorian Guard.
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Offline allanq

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #85 on: October 31, 2007, 06:48:02 PM »
I told you to stock up on klonopin, darling.  Takes the edge off as you pass the Praetorian Guard.

I don't know whether you're trying to be funny or just missing the point.

I'm sure that what englishgirl is referring to is not just those few minutes of going through U.S. customs. The stress starts from the moment you commit to buying a ticket, when you wonder if you're going to be sent back and denied entry forever. Emma (gemini20) bought her ticket and then got so stressed out that she forfeited the ticket and stayed home. I don't blame her.

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Online Miss Philicia

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #86 on: October 31, 2007, 06:57:46 PM »
I don't know whether you're trying to be funny or just missing the point.

I'm sure that what englishgirl is referring to is not just those few minutes of going through U.S. customs. The stress starts from the moment you commit to buying a ticket, when you wonder if you're going to be sent back and denied entry forever. Emma (gemini20) bought her ticket and then got so stressed out that she forfeited the ticket and stayed home. I don't blame her.

Allan


I was being funny.  I've talked to englishgirl about it, and I take klonopin for anxiety myself so more than familiar with what it feels like.  So that is why I suggested the klonopin.

That said, I do think some of the more vocal elements are over-worrying, as they've specifically stated they're not even on HIV medications so there goes that pill argument.  I can't honestly say that if it was me and I was not a US citizen, that I'd not worry, but then again I'd be traveling with vials of fuzeon which there's no way to hide it.

Frankly there's no easy solution to this issue, as I've stated previously.  And now that there seems to be two firm sides in the equation it seems that nobody wants to compromise.  To be honest, I don't particularly care -- if AMG is held somewhere I can afford to travel to I'll go.  If not I'm not going to whine about it.  No reason to hold others here hostage to my personal financial situation.

Bottom line:  I still fail to understand why this most very basic of issues was not settled before we held a vote on site location.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 07:02:00 PM by philly267 »
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Offline englishgirl

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #87 on: October 31, 2007, 07:06:21 PM »
Bottom line:  I still fail to understand why this most very basic of issues was not settled before we held a vote on site location.
me too.

thanks allan for understanding what us foreigners go through xxxx

ps for the record folks i knew philly was being funny. i know EVERYTHING. that's why you should all agree with me  ;D ;D

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Offline Ric Wilke

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #88 on: October 31, 2007, 09:02:31 PM »
I'm going to make this as easy as possible for the Coordinator to count my vote:

1)  Chicago
2)  Nashville

Thom tried to vote using his own log-on using User Name:  Thom Martin.  But it seems that AIDSmeds.com will not allow two individuals who share an I.P. address (the same computer) to have individual accounts.  We understand this position from a security standpoint.

Having said that, Thom casts his votes as follows:

1)  Chicago
2)  Nashville

If one of the moderators can help us with the I.P. issue, we'd be very grateful.

Regards, Ric and Thom

« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 10:18:49 PM by Ric Wilke »

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #89 on: October 31, 2007, 10:38:45 PM »
Why Nashville? I fail to see the attraction.

Offline Ric Wilke

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #90 on: November 01, 2007, 12:58:52 AM »
With all due respect Dan, but this is our vote.  When you vote for a President, are you asked to qualify why you think that this is the best candidate?  Why make the tabulation of this vote even harder for the Coordinator?  This is a VOTE, not a debate.

Respectifully, Ric

PS Dan,  We hope you are able to fly tomorrow and give Hermie a hug for us.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 01:05:13 AM by Ric Wilke »

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #91 on: November 01, 2007, 07:14:50 AM »
1. Sydney
2. Vladivostok

They're in the same time zone.

MtD

Offline Dachshund

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #92 on: November 01, 2007, 07:28:17 AM »
This is a VOTE, not a debate.

Respectifully, Ric



Thank you Ric! The AMG Coordinator simply asked for people to vote for their two choices of cities.

Offline Iggy

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #93 on: November 01, 2007, 08:04:38 AM »
Thank you Ric! The AMG Coordinator simply asked for people to vote for their two choices of cities.

All due respect Hal....that is not true by definition of what Dennis as the coordinator has done repeatedly in this thread.

He has released selective airfares and survey results in a thread he himself states in ONLY for voting...just like you making your comments on this thread and asking that people not make comments and only vote...You can't have it both ways.

But since you brought up the vote point - I think what is important is people understand what they are voting for.

Do members who vote for a U.S. destination realize that their vote is  for asking any non-u.s. member to commit immigration fraud?  I'm just curious.  So many people say we should know about the costs for places as being a valid form of information to influence the vote - but not the fact that we would be drawing a line to our non-U.S. members to either commit a crime or just stay away? 

I'm sorry folks, but paint it any way you wish but it does boil down to that point.




« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 08:25:12 AM by Iggy »

Offline englishgirl

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #94 on: November 01, 2007, 09:28:02 AM »
But since you brought up the vote point - I think what is important is people understand what they are voting for.

Do members who vote for a U.S. destination realize that their vote is  for asking any non-u.s. member to commit immigration fraud?  I'm just curious.  So many people say we should know about the costs for places as being a valid form of information to influence the vote - but not the fact that we would be drawing a line to our non-U.S. members to either commit a crime or just stay away? 

I'm sorry folks, but paint it any way you wish but it does boil down to that point.
im finding it very interesting and very disappointing how many members of this forum claim to be politically concerned and interested in activism, but with their actions in this thread are unmasking their own hypocrisy.

and with that comment i think i'll do as our co-ordinator asks and refrain from discussion in this thread. please refer to the thread i have started on this matter: http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16816.new#new
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Offline sweetasmeli

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #95 on: November 01, 2007, 09:30:17 AM »
Even though Iíve been having a bit of a break from the forums lately, Iíve been peeking at this thread (under a certain bossy madamís orders! ;)) with some curiosity to see what will come of the discussion points and issues raised concerning the laws surrounding non-US citizens entering the US.

I personally hadnít thought too long and hard about the legal ramifications of my entering the US until I attended AMG. My personal visits to friends are one thing; the questions at immigration were easy enough to answer without having to lie or sidestep. But attending a gathering of an internet group exclusively made up of HIV+ people, most of whom Iíd never met? Not only did I have to lie, but the line of questioning was harder to sidestep. I admit my stomach was churning somewhat until I made it safely through the check point.

It has been pointed out over and over again by several folk here that to hold AMG in the US means certain members either being excluded (through choosing not to attend because of the laws) or committing a felony and risking all future exclusion from the US. Yet so many members are still voting for the US.

Iím not backward about coming forward and saying what I think and today Iím not going to sugar coat my thoughts with diplomacy.

It seems clear to me that there are many on here that really donít seem to care about the legal predicament that non-US members are being put in (even though they say they do) because they are continuing to vote US regardless of the quandary in question.

I find that quite disappointing and I fully understand certain membersí frustration.

I only have one vote: Any place that doesnít have entry restrictions for HIV+ folk.

Am I being unrealistic here or doesnít that suggestion stand to reason?

Debra
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 05:26:22 PM by sweetasmeli »
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Offline Gilles

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #96 on: November 01, 2007, 09:48:42 AM »
1. Boston
2. Mexico City
 :) ;) :)

Offline David_CA

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #97 on: November 01, 2007, 10:45:20 AM »
Am I being unrealistic here or doesnít that suggestion stand to reason?

Hi Debra,

Financially, it may be possibly unrealistic for many members.  I think what this points out more than anything else is that there should be an AMG somewhere in Europe.  After meeting so many people in SF, some who are not HIV+, you can honestly say you are meeting friends for vacation without having to lie.   ;)

This next part isn't directed towards you in particular.  My question would be why hasn't anybody actually started planning one... getting locations, dates, etc?  When I plan a party, our Christmas party, for example, I keep a few things in mind.  One is I actually pick a date that won't interfere with most people's holiday plans.  Another is I choose a location, which generally is at our house.  Then, I plan the damned thing. 

Why hasn't somebody said "screw it, let's have an AMG in Amsterdam sometime in July.  I'm planning on being there from July xx through the xx at _________ hotel."  Honestly, that's all it would take.  If it was in my budget, I'd be there too.  It's not, so I won't / can't.  But that doesn't mean that many Europeans, or even US citizens, can't attend.  I think many who can't, or won't, attend a US based AMG for whatever reason would benefit from this.  Personally, I think it's a bit much to ask somebody who's all the way on the West Coast of the US to do this... time zones for calls, long distance charges, etc.  How about somebody who lives in Amsterdam, or who lives fairly close and has been there before, start planning this.

I hate the fact that HIV is even an issue for entry.  At this point, I don't see a lot of ways around this, except for a Canadian location and LOTS of fund raising to assist others to attend or(and)  having an AMG 'over there'.

David
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Offline englishgirl

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #98 on: November 01, 2007, 10:51:36 AM »
After meeting so many people in SF, some who are not HIV+, you can honestly say you are meeting friends for vacation without having to lie.   ;)

eerm, NO
the immigration form asks you to declare that you are free of communicable diseases. it is the entry to the states that is a problem, not who you are meeting up with once there
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Offline Iggy

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Re: AMG 2008 DESTINATION VOTE
« Reply #99 on: November 01, 2007, 10:54:33 AM »
My question would be why hasn't anybody actually started planning one... getting locations, dates, etc?  When I plan a party, our Christmas party, for example, I keep a few things in mind.  One is I actually pick a date that won't interfere with most people's holiday plans.  Another is I choose a location, which generally is at our house.  Then, I plan the damned thing. 

Why hasn't somebody said "screw it, let's have an AMG in Amsterdam sometime in July.  I'm planning on being there from July xx through the xx at _________ hotel."  Honestly, that's all it would take.

David,

All due respect your question is based on the assumption (at least it reads that way) that the AMG is an American event and why don't the non-Americans start planning their own?  I thought the AMG stood for AIDSMEDS GATHERING and therefore is for all members of AIDSMEDS?

Why should the non-U.S. members be asked to not participate in the planning the same way as the U.S. members when we are discussiing the next AMG or suggested that they plan their own event?

And I need to state while I understand about the costs - why is that only considered a viable issue for the Americans?  For three years now the non-U.S. members have gone to considerable cost to travel to North America, why are U.S. citizens not thinking that it works both ways?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 10:58:24 AM by Iggy »

 


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