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Author Topic: oral questions  (Read 5989 times)

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Offline worriedtodeath123

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oral questions
« on: November 24, 2007, 05:00:21 PM »
Ann or any expert,

I continue to be concerned about an insertive oral risk exposure.  I know you steadfastly state that there is 0 risk associated with this activity, but there are so many experts that state otherwise.  Also, I am aware of the semidiscordant studies which have shown no new infections by this route but what I am concerned about is the fact that when someone claims he was infected  via oral, I imagine the experts immediately dismiss this claim even if it is true. In addition, scientific studies that prove one thing are often found to be an issue on repeat studies or studies that continue over  longer periods of time.  The biggest concern as I stated earlier is when someone has had insertive oral and vaginal or anal, it is assumed that the higher risk activity was the route of transmission.  How does anyone know this?

So my story is no different, I had insertive oral from a CSW in China 10 weeks ago and I am deathly afraid of infection and more importantly infecting my wife who now has ARS type symptoms.  This was my only exposure after 30 years of a completley monogamous relationship.  I also had a full STD screen at 5 weeks and 3 days all of which were negative which was 5 weeks ago now.  I plan to get another test in about 2 more weeks at the 12 week mark to be sure but I am worried to death I have infected my wife already.  She has severe muscle aches and joint pains, fever, cough and can barely move.  I feel that I must have HIV at this point and am WORRIED TO DEATH.  I imagine if i did come down with HIV, the experts would dismiss this as an unreliable report but it is the only exposure that I have had.  I am afraid that this is one of the reasons why oral is identified as low/no risk because such few people particpate in only one behavior and oral is not unmasked or experts immediately dismiss the case report as being not reliable.  For example, if worried93's claims were in fact true, everyone would say it happened from the condom failure.  Why not from Oral given that his condom really didnt fail.

Offline Ann

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2007, 05:25:12 PM »
wtd,

Gee, it sounds like your wife has the flu. Really odd considering we're in the middle of cold and flu season. No, that's too logical, it simply MUST be that Chinese blowjob!

Get a grip, man. Hiv transmission simply does not happen from the oral cavity to the penis. No way, no how. I've just come out of an eight year relationship and he remained hiv negative, despite more blowjobs than you can shake a stick at. I'm not on meds either, so I've ALWAYS had a detectable viral load.

Not only is saliva not infectious, it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect.

You didn't have a risk. If your wife's FLU gets any worse, make a doctor's appointment for her and next year, get flu shots.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline worriedtodeath123

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2007, 05:40:54 PM »
So-I am assuming you are saying that I didnt need to test in the first place.  How reliable is my 5 week and 3 day test anyhow?  Also, would you mind just addressing some of my points regarding the possibility that oral could be a risk factor or is it just some remote that it really is not worrying about.  I cant seem to stop obsessing about this.  I had a few symptoms such as recurring geographic tongue which i never had before, frequent bouts of diarhrea which i assume is from stress-but who knows, fullness in my armpits, and conjunctivitis.  I'm really afraid to get the next test due to my wifes symptoms!  I know i need to get a grip and extra reassurance will some sound scientific reasoning will help.  Sorry to be a pest as I know am probably worrying unnecessarily.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2007, 05:58:34 PM »
Yes, you are worrying needlessly. You didn't have a risk. If you have a concern about your symptoms see your doctor. They are unrelated to HIV.

Offline worriedtodeath123

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2007, 06:24:08 PM »
Why do some boards say oral is a small risk such as medshelp (Dr. Handsfield) a renown expert in HIV.  Admitedly he says that it is too small to worry about it but yet he does say there is a risk. he used to say anywhere between 4 and 6 weeks is pefectly fine to get a test but now he is saying 6- 8 weeks which has me worried since mine was at 5 weeks and 3 days. Other reputable sites that do not seem to be driven by a political agenda also say the risk is small but yet a risk.  Even in your lessons, you dont say with 100% certainty that it is no risk. 

Offline RapidRod

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2007, 06:39:31 PM »
Dr. Handsfield, does not treat patients. He works with statistics. We're not here to split hairs with you. You have been given the information and there is nothing more to add.

Offline Ann

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2007, 08:07:46 PM »
wtd,

When you say "oral sex", you're talking about a pretty broad range of behaviours. The only one that comes anywhere near being a "small risk" is GIVING a blowjob - and it's theoretical at best. GETTING a blowjob and going down on women are NOT risks for hiv infection. Annilingus, another form of "oral sex", is also NOT a risk for hiv infection.

You didn't have a risk, so you aren't in a window period. Your negative hiv results are conclusive. You ARE hiv negative.

Ann
 
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline worriedtodeath123

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2007, 09:58:41 PM »
Last question for the moderators:

When someone claims they have contracted HIV from insertive oral as many have done including but certainly not limited to this forum is it just ignored assuming they are lying or is it investigated to try to determine if a riskier route was the cause.  While I am not planning to search the POZ forum, one poster noted that a person claims he was infected by insertive oral-these kinds of assertions of course just flame our concerns.  This has always been my concern from the beginning-that experts automatically dismiss oral for a more risky behavior that is not reported.

Offline worriedtodeath123

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2007, 12:09:43 PM »
Now I am really freaking out regarding the symptoms my wife is experiencing-she continues to have severe muscle and joint pain so much so she can barely walk-low grade fever-thick white coated tongue and peripheal neuropathy. She was just diagnosed with bronchitis but that doesnt explain the severe muscle aches, white coated tongue, and neuropaty. Can these really be related to something else-it just seems to much like a coincidence.  Please respond.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2007, 12:24:47 PM »
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.


Offline worriedtodeath123

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2007, 12:37:19 PM »
Please dont give me a timeout but I am really freaking out about my wifes symptoms.  She seems to have every ARS symptom in the book.  Is it at all possible they have nothing to do with my encounter and totally unrelated to ARS.  Severe muscle aches/joint pains, coated tongue, cough, numbness in her extremities, mild fever but that has gone, swelling in her hands, itchy rash.  I cant even think straight and just need reassurance from you guys that its almost impossible or is impossible.  I did have a negative test at 5 weeks and 3 days-how reliable is that?  I am so convinced that if I take a test the next one will be positive. The only symptoms i had and continue to have is geographic tongue and diahrea which I never had before.  Please help!

Offline Ann

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2007, 01:30:22 PM »
worried,

Getting a blowjob is NOT a risk for hiv infection. Your hiv test result shows that you ARE hiv negative.

If your wife is not well, then she needs to go back to her doctor. This is NOT an hiv situation.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline worriedtodeath123

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
Re: oral questions
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2007, 01:40:33 PM »
Thanks Ann-I dont know why I am freaking out so much.  It just all seems to coinicendental.  Can all of those symptoms really be due to something else?  I just dont know what could explain them other than ARS.  I know all of you at this site say the same thing - that oral is absoutely no risk but I just feel that even if its one in a million someone has to be that one and why not me.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2007, 04:44:59 PM »
You don't know why you are freaking out? Try GUILT!

You're a dawg like many of us are and you went straying. I don't know (and I am really not interested), in who are all the so-called experts you refer to as saying you can become infected with HIV from getting a blowjob. Other STDs? Possibly. But HIV. NOT.

From what I can gather you are loaded with anxiety that your straying is going to become manifest by your wife becoming infected. Baloney!

This is not an HIV situation no matter how your mind may try to make it otherwise.

If you can't let go of this totally unwarranted concern in terms of HIV then I suggest you see a therapist or other professional to get some help in sorting it out. As for you wife, a medical doctor will attend to her needs, which again, are not about HIV.

Stop with all the drama. You got a blowjob. Do yourself, your wife and your life a big favor, accept what you did, take a breath, let it go and get on with your life.

 
Andy Velez

Offline worriedtodeath123

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  • Posts: 16
Re: oral questions
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2007, 06:51:28 PM »
Andy-

Last reply until I get my negative 3 month test next week even though according to you I didnt need to.  How many people (be honest) have come back to report that they have turned poz on this site after claiming an oral only exposure.  Even if they did, I understand that they may not know exactly but there are people like me who does know for a fact that oral was my only oral exposure.  So how many?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2007, 10:08:45 PM »
Oral sex isn't a risk, so no one has been infected by just having oral sex.

Offline worriedtodeath123

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2007, 11:43:52 PM »
Rapid Rod-

thanks for the reply but that really wasnt the question.  The question is how many people have claimed to be infected by oral sex on this forum? I know at least one that said yes who was reading the POZ forums which I have not done.  So how many have claimed to be infected on this forum vial oral only?

Offline Ann

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2007, 04:35:52 AM »
wtd,

NOT ONE person on this forum has claimed to have been infected through GETTING a blowjob. Not one person has EVER been infected this way and you will NOT be the first. How many people claimed to have been infected through GIVING blowjobs is irrelevant to your concerns.

You did NOT have a risk and the test results you have already had show that you are conclusively hiv negative.

You do not have hiv and it's time you moved on. There's nothing more we can do for you here.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline worriedtodeath123

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
Re: oral questions
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2007, 10:34:04 AM »
Ann,

You are 100% correct.  I need to move on and will when I get my test results back this week.  I've already given blood for my 12 week test last Thursday and I'm getting increasingly nervous about the results-hence the question.  I am not concerned about giving blowing jobs as that is not related to me-only receiving.  I thought a few people on these boards have claimed to be infected that way.  If not, that makes me feel better.

Offline worriedtodeath123

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  • Posts: 16
Re: oral questions
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2007, 12:23:41 PM »
Ann,

When you say no one has claimed to be infected by receiving oral sex, a previous poster identified a very long thread in which that person cliamed that was their only activity and became positive via insertive oral sex.  Why are you saying no one when this person claimed oral to be the route of transmission.  Claims are claims - I didnt ask for proof.

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: oral questions
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2007, 02:09:10 PM »
wtd,

If I remember correctly, the poster you refer to wrote in a very vague and misleading way about oral, but he was NOT talking about getting a blowjob. He was talking about GIVING them.

The fact is that hiv transmission just doesn't happen from a mouth to a penis. Never has, never will. It's the nature of the virus. If you can't accept that, well then, that's something for you to deal with. We can't do much more for you here.

Please make sure you read the posting guidelines in the welcome thread and pay particular attention to the following:

Quote
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Please consider yourself warned. Not one person has ever been infected because they had their penis sucked and you will not be the first. You had no risk.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline worriedtodeath123

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2007, 06:00:25 PM »
Just to set the record straight-desperate84beauty claimed he was infected by insertive oral.  I'm sure RapidRod remembers that exchange quite well given that it was a very heated debate in which RapidRod argued that there was no way possible that it happened as he claimed.  Nonetheless, this was his claim.  So when someone asks if anyone has claimed to be infected on this site-I'm not sure how you and RapidRod can continue to say it has never happened. Ban me if you wish or give me a timeout but all I did was ask a simple question which the moderators for some reason do not want to answer or answer incorrectly.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2007, 06:01:40 PM »
WTD,

The reason that we make these "claims" is because the scientific evidence supports our position.

MtD

Offline worriedtodeath123

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2007, 06:07:42 PM »
MtD,

My question was not about your assertions about the risk of transmission from insertive oral sex which rationally I know is low to non existant, but if anyone has claimed to be infected from oral as his only exposure on this site and has tested positive.  The answer was no -Not one person-but that is not true given Desperate84beauty's assertions.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2007, 06:13:37 PM »
Listen,

Your questions have been answered and I have no intention of getting into an exchange with you about these matters, it's outside the scope of the AMI forum.

There are plenty of other places on the internet where you can go and kvetch about oral sex and HIV.

MtD

Offline RapidRod

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2007, 06:16:03 PM »
No one has have been infected by receiving oral sex and those that claim it are just to embarrassed to tell of their true exposure.

Offline worriedtodeath123

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2007, 06:40:25 PM »
Isnt it hard to believe that EVERY person that has tested positive and have claimed to be infected via oral sex is either lying or too embarrassed to tell the truth. 

Therein lies my major concern about oral-no one will ever believe it.  If, god forbid, for some reason I test positive, I will be going on a crusade to convince people that oral is not 100% safe.  But of course, the moderators on this site would try to discredit it for some reason.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2007, 06:55:40 PM »
It's time you left the forum. Move on.

Offline worriedtodeath123

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2007, 07:09:16 PM »
I'm moving on!  But why can't just one of the moderators say-YES people on this forum have claimed to have been infected by oral but we just dont believe it. Instead, you guys say no one has even claimed to be infected when I asked a simple question which was not true.  RapidRod-you were right in the middle of that ugly debate last year even swearing at him!  I know you guys dont think so, but it does weaken the credibility of this site.  When I first came here, your words of encourgement were in fact very reassuring but when other questions are asked which are ignored because you have an agenda, it udoubtedly will make people question the reliability and integrity which is a crying shame.  We are all just nervous worried wells searching for support and reassurance!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2007, 07:12:15 PM »
Good bye...

Offline worriedtodeath123

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2007, 07:18:16 PM »
Even in your last reply-you can't even say-yes people on this site have claimed to contract HIV via insertive oral.

Goodbye....

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2007, 09:19:37 PM »
I don't think is a particularly fruitful road to go down. The main thing is for you to get your test result which we do expect is going to be negative, your fears notwithstanding.

As far as reports from those who claim to have been infected by giving oral our approach overall is to help someone who's reliably tested positive to deal with being positive, rather than to get into challenging the accuracy of the source of the infection.

You will also often find in our responses that we will say despite the much more overwhelming evidence through longterm studies of sero-discordant couples and others which support giving oral not being a risk, we also mention there have been a small number of cases which have attributed infection to giving oral. And that therefore whether or not to use protection for giving is something for each person to decide what level of risk they are willing to live with.

As far as receiving oral there has never been a case of transmission confirmed in that manner. Given that it's one of the most common sexual acts the reality of that non-risk speaks for itself.

There are reasons why very often the accuracy of a claim to having become infected by giving oral is of uncertain reliability. Yes, sometimes people sometimes lie about what they have done for various reasons. But even those who are intending to be truthful don't for various reasons when reporting remember all the details of what happened or of their previous sexual history, drug use and other possible exposures.

You can think differently and disagree with our position if you want to. This doesn't look to me like a conversation that is going to progress any further. And I most strongly suggest calling it quits about it now as well as your not attempting to further engage others here in arguments about who said what and when.

Good luck with your test result which I do expect is going to be negative.

 
Andy Velez

Offline anniebc

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2007, 11:24:51 PM »
Worried

Bad mouthing those who are trying to help you understand is not a good idea..I think you are pretty much done here, if you are not going to listen then there is no point in being here...it really is time for you to move on...if you come back with the same argument you will be given a TO of 28 days.

Jan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Ann

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2007, 02:55:10 AM »
wtd,

The other moderators were far too easy on you. I warned you yesterday (see post #20) that you were getting close to a time out and that is exactly what I'm giving you - a time out.

Your time out will run for 28 days. Do not create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned, no questions asked.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline anniebc

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Re: oral questions
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2007, 04:26:43 AM »
Oops..I missed #20..my bad.

Jan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

 


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