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Author Topic: clean  (Read 10446 times)

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Offline milker

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clean
« on: October 15, 2007, 11:20:40 PM »
I see many ads from people saying they're "clean". I see a lot of posts from "Am I Infected" saying they're "clean" or someone was supposed to be "clean".

I'm wondering what this term is doing to us, to which extent. It seems to me that it is extremely damaging, and I'm not sure where it comes from. What can we do to stop people using "clean" to say that they're not HIV positive?

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: clean
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2007, 11:22:02 PM »
We can cut their fucking tongues out.

MtD

Offline milker

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Re: clean
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2007, 11:23:22 PM »
come on Matty.. i was just reacting to one of your posts where you were offended about people using this term, and I agree with you, it is offending, but where does it come from, and what can we do to stop this?

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline 404error

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Re: clean
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2007, 11:25:17 PM »
I still refer to myself as being clean.  I choose to believe that being clean means I shower regularly, brush my teeth daily, and change my clothes as necessary.  If others choose to believe that by saying I'm clean that I must be HIV negative, that's their problem.

Also D&D free.  I see this as indicating that my social calander is free of any Dungeons and Dragons gaming with my socially awkward, overly imaginative friends.  I am proudly D&D free!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 11:28:10 PM by UpAllNight »
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline milker

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Re: clean
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2007, 11:27:15 PM »
If others choose to believe that by saying I'm clean that I must be HIV negative, that's their problem.
So if you reply to an ad that says something like "gotta be clean" then you discard HIV references and you go for it?

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: clean
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2007, 11:28:04 PM »
I know what you were referring to. And whilst you're conducting your little symposium, Milker, some of us are actually addressing the problem.

See here how I deal with the foolish youth in question.

MtD
(Who knows that there are doers and talkers)

Offline milker

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Re: clean
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2007, 11:31:01 PM »
I know what you were referring to. And whilst you're conducting your little symposium, Milker, some of us are actually addressing the problem.

See here how I deal with the foolish youth in question.

MtD
(Who knows that there are doers and talkers)
Matty, yes this is this post I just read. And that's why I started this thread because this issues comes too often, and I think it's something we can talk about. That you are addressing the problem by saying it's an offense is one thing, that it's a common trend is another thing that I wish to discuss.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: clean
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2007, 11:32:07 PM »
Think of it this way Milker. When you see them use that term you can scratch them off your people to do list.
"Clean" = narrow minded, insensitive dickhead.

Offline bryonut

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Re: clean
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2007, 11:34:14 PM »
We can cut their fucking tongues out.

That would be very messy therefore making us unclean.  ;)

Holiness to the Lord,
bry

Offline 404error

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Re: clean
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2007, 11:34:52 PM »
Quote
So if you reply to an ad that says something like "gotta be clean" then you discard HIV references and you go for it?

Sure.  That's the beauty of language.  If I think that being clean implies I have good personal hygeine then I admit I am clean.  If someone wants to know if I have HIV, then they should ask me straight out.  I'm not going to lie, of course I have HIV.  I haven't lied in this situation nor have I misrepresented the truth.  When people want a direct/specific answer, they need to ask a direct/specific question.
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline milker

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Re: clean
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2007, 11:36:16 PM »
Think of it this way Milker. When you see them use that term you can scratch them off your people to do list.
"Clean" = narrow minded, insensitive dickhead.
hmmm is it that simple? If it was just a small number of people using that term I wouldn't care, but it seems to be somewhat a term that defines HIV positive people to a large population and I have a problem with that.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline thunter34

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Re: clean
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2007, 11:40:31 PM »
hmmm is it that simple? If it was just a small number of people using that term I wouldn't care, but it seems to be somewhat a term that defines HIV positive people to a large population and I have a problem with that.

Milker.

But it isn't just us High Fivers that get this.  That terminology is hurled at people who have any form of STD.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline milker

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Re: clean
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2007, 11:42:54 PM »
Sure.  That's the beauty of language.  If I think that being clean implies I have good personal hygeine then I admit I am clean. 
Well I'm French, so by definition i'm not clean.

But seriously, it is offending for most of us, and I'm wondering where this is coming from. I disagree with you, thunter. Who is defined as "not clean" because they have gonorrhea?  Clean vs not clean = HIV- vs HIV+ for 99.99 of the time.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline aztecan

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Re: clean
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2007, 11:45:20 PM »
And one wonders why I steer clear of the "Am I infected" forum?

I'd strangle the little darlins in no time at all.

If the guy in question asked one more time if he was going to be OK, I would have told him to bend over, I was going to drive.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline thunter34

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Re: clean
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2007, 11:47:28 PM »
Well I'm French, so by definition i'm not clean.

But seriously, it is offending for most of us, and I'm wondering where this is coming from. I disagree with you, thunter. Who is defined as "not clean" because they have gonorrhea?  Clean vs not clean = HIV- vs HIV+ for 99.99 of the time.

Milker.

I disagree about the second part your post.  I've yet to come across anyone with syph or the clap that would get a pass as "clean".

We're in harmony on the first part of your post, though.   ;)
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline 404error

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Re: clean
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2007, 11:52:15 PM »
Quote
Well I'm French, so by definition i'm not clean.

I'm French as well and still think of myself as clean, although I am an anglophone so I guess I get the cleanliness from that side of things...

A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: clean
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2007, 11:53:53 PM »
Carol Anne: Uh-huh. Diane: Do you see them? Carol Anne: Uh-uh. Do you? Diane: Uh-uh. Tangina: This house is clean. Diane: You were saying about poltergeist.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline thunter34

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Re: clean
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2007, 12:01:00 AM »
Carol Anne: Uh-huh. Diane: Do you see them? Carol Anne: Uh-uh. Do you? Diane: Uh-uh. Tangina: This house is clean. Diane: You were saying about poltergeist.

speaking of...where is carol ann these days?
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: clean
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2007, 12:02:12 AM »
///public library
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline milker

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Re: clean
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2007, 12:02:53 AM »
speaking of...where is carol ann these days?
So yeah I was wondering the same thing. But can we stay on topic? STDs are cleaner than HIV?

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline thunter34

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Re: clean
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2007, 12:06:30 AM »
STDs are cleaner than HIV?

Milker.

they's all nasty to me.  but then, when it comes to sex i have always prided myself on being a rather nasty sort, so it follows i should have garnered a few of 'em in my time.

around the block more times than a taxi,

thunter34
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: clean
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2007, 12:10:51 AM »
I too thought clean meant no STDs, including herpes. When I was single and negative I was worried as much about herpes as HIV. Protecting myself during sex from HIV was relatively easy compared to herpes.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: clean
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2007, 12:17:04 AM »
Look,

When people (such as those arsehole WW's in The Other Place) use the term "clean" they mean both HIV and other STD's. I should know, I've spent the last 2+ years making the idiots each shit-sandwiches everytime they fuck up on the "clean" issue.

I think I saw Carol-Ann online the other day.

MtD

Offline leatherman

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Re: clean
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2007, 12:23:39 AM »
... and I'm not sure where it comes from.

It's simply a euphemism. Part courtesy, part denial, part ignorance

Courtesy - it's nicer than saying "are you an AIDS infected scumbag?" or "Are you a clap-ridden whore?" Polite people don't like to talk or think of other people as "infected". it sounds nasty. "clean" is so nice, without sounding at all offensive.

Denial - Sexual repression (and homophobia) make people squeamish about talking about sex, and HIV. If no one says the word, then it's not a problem. Asking if someone is "clean" glosses over having to think of all that nasty stuff like STDs, HIV, AIDS.

Ignorance - uneducated people are just rude without realizing it. No one asks grandma if she's "clean" of the cancer or diabetes, because that would sound ugly; and there's a greater chance that they understand issues of cancer and diabetes. To them HIV is just that scary disease they don't understand, so someone must not be "clean" if they have that disease.

I would also have to add that IMHO if someone is asking if you're "clean" they are meaning STDs AND HIV. No one is going to play 20-questions to see what you might have. It's a one-size-fits-all kind of question.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: clean
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2007, 12:25:49 AM »

I think I saw Carol-Ann online the other day.

MtD

YOU THINK WRONG
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline milker

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Re: clean
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2007, 12:29:32 AM »
Look,

When people (such as those arsehole WW's in The Other Place) use the term "clean" they mean both HIV and other STD's. I should know, I've spent the last 2+ years making the idiots each shit-sandwiches everytime they fuck up on the "clean" issue.
well this term is offensive and I'm still wondering where it comes from. in any case, what can we do so that STDs and HIV are not viewed as "dirty", or are we dirty?

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: clean
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2007, 12:30:24 AM »
YOU THINK WRONG

So it would appear, Philodendron.

How time flies.

MtD

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: clean
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2007, 12:35:25 AM »
or are we dirty?

Milker.

Ever had a lab technician draw your blood incorrectly and have it spray all over her and her eyes bug out of her head?  Yes, we're dirty.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline leatherman

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Re: clean
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2007, 12:42:11 AM »
well this term is offensive and I'm still wondering where it comes from. in any case, what can we do so that STDs and HIV are not viewed as "dirty", or are we dirty?

Throughout history many other illnesses have been considered dirty. (consider leprosy in biblical times with cries of "unclean") unfortunately this isn't anything new :( Sexual repression in society, in more modern times, makes all sexually-related diseases "dirty" to the general public.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline komnaes

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Re: clean
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2007, 12:52:59 AM »
From the perspective of another culture and language - in Hong Kong we speak Cantonese (a major Chinese dialect) and since the beginning of this epidemic the word "AIDS" (Oi Zi Ban) has acquired a connotation that is much nastier and negative than "dirty". You can still hear occasionally school kids saying things like "don't touch me, you have AIDS" on buses, etc while horsing around.

So in a way just by plainly saying that "someone has AIDS" is already considered such a damnation. For years the public health sector has tried to educate people by adopting Chinese terms like "HIV patients", "virus carrier" (a very common a neutral term that covers other diseases like hepatitis, etc). Of course these efforts are mostly in vein.

Shaun
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline mjmel

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Re: clean
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2007, 05:24:57 AM »
... in any case, what can we do so that STDs and HIV are not viewed as "dirty", or are we dirty?

Milker.
This has been a frustration in existence longer than your lifetime, milker of men.
People love to make judgements and the language reflects it. In the next decade there will be another term or demeaning phrase to reference 'dirty' from 'non-dirty' which will replace 'clean'. I bet ya I'm spot-on.
xxx,
Mike

Online BT65

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Re: clean
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2007, 06:20:03 AM »
Well, this is what I think about it:

If someone asked me if I was "clean" and I said "why yes, I thoroughly clean myself every day" and they said "no, I mean clap, HIV etc" I would just chalk it up to someone I don't want to hang around.  Then I would look at them like I didn't know what they were talking about and smack the piss out of them. 
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline David_CA

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Re: clean
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2007, 08:12:26 AM »
Clean just means able to pass a test, as in a drug test came back clean.  In this case, there were no drugs listed that the person tested positive for.  As to STD's, I think it's silly. 

What are we expected to say "no, I'm quite dirty.  I've got herpes and warts"  (I don't have those, by the way; I'm clean  ;)  ).  I generally use it to mean is one clean (enough) for sex.... as in who's gonna be the bitch and whose gonna be the man!  Seriously, I've been asked that before, when I was negative.  I always answered "I took a shower this morning, but I probably should freshen up some", etc.  I don't take it offensively at all.  I don't think people generally mean it to be offensive.  I think it's just their attempt to stay away from some of the nasties!

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline northernguy

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Re: clean
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2007, 10:27:46 AM »
But it isn't just us High Fivers that get this.  That terminology is hurled at people who have any form of STD.

Show me a sexually active gay man who hasn't had an STD and I'll show you...umm I don't know what ;)

Whenever I see that term "clean" it reminds me off this little nelly I hooked up with back in my neg days.  I'm all for safe sex but this little queen kept asking this so obsessively before we even touched, I was sure he was going to try an mount me right then and there!  But it was all the twit could do to bring himself to lick my nipple, all the while fretting about being "clean".  That's as far as that encounter went.
Apr 28/06 cd4 600 vl 10,600 cd% 25
Nov 8/09 cd4 510 vl 49,5000 cd% 16
Jan 16/10 cd4 660 vl 54,309 cd% 16
Feb 17/10 Started Atripla
Mar 7/10 cd4 710 vl 1,076 cd% 21
Apr 18/10 cd4 920 vl 268 cd% 28
Jun 19/10 cd4 450 vl 60 cd% 25
Aug 15/10 cd4 680 vl 205 cd% 27
Apr 3/11 cd4 780 vl <40 cd% 30
Jul 17/11 cd4 960 vl <40 cd%33
April 15/12 cd4 1,010 vl <40 cd% 39
April 20/12 Switched to Viramune + Truvada
Aug 2/12 cd4 1040, vl <40, cd% 38
Oct 19 cd4 1,110 vl <40 cd% 41

Offline milker

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Re: clean
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2007, 10:42:19 AM »
Clean just means able to pass a test, as in a drug test came back clean. 
oic I didn't know that use thanks.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: clean
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2007, 10:45:30 AM »
So Milker,

Has this thread met your expectations so far?

MtD

Offline Dachshund

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Re: clean
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2007, 10:53:14 AM »
Mommy, mommy, some guy on Mancunt.com asked me if I was clean. What shall I say, what shall I say? He's really hot and I want him to fuck me.

Say what you always say dear, "yes sir, squeaky!"

Offline milker

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Re: clean
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2007, 10:56:36 AM »
So Milker,

Has this thread met your expectations so far?

MtD
I'm not sure what this nagging is about, today, Matty. But to answer your question, I didn't know where the term "clean" came from and yes, now I know. I don't think I see another response to "yes, I have showered" so far to counter the "are you clean". Hal, yes, I remember telling a person that had this word in an ad that it was offending and basically the answer was to go fuck myself, which I did since I didn't really know how handle it. Hence the original question, is it yet another HIV stigma that we have to live with, or is there something simple we can do to stop people using this word.

Now if this thread is going to be a bullying thread, I see no point in continuing the conversation, so let me know.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline David_CA

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Re: clean
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2007, 11:01:23 AM »
Milker,

I think that a good answer would be "do you mean do I have good hygiene, which I do, or that am I HIV-, which I am not" and let them take it from there.
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Ann

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Re: clean
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2007, 11:03:04 AM »
Milky,

All we really can do is try to educate people as to why this term is offensive and unacceptable. If they say "fuck off", that's their problem, not mine. I would walk away from someone with that attitude.

Be the change you wish to see.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Dachshund

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Re: clean
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2007, 11:10:46 AM »
Hal, yes, I remember telling a person that had this word in an ad that it was offending and basically the answer was to go fuck myself, which I did since I didn't really know how handle it.

Milker.

Don't be so sensitive, my response was directed at no one. I was making a comment about online hookups and the irony involved. Piss, shit, fisting etc, and I'm worried about someone asking if I am clean? Admonish the worried wells because we know why they are asking. Online I don't find the generic "clean" much more offensive than disease free. That's all they are asking. I still say most (including you ;)) won't pass up a hot fuck even if they ask if you are clean. Maybe when you're snuggling in the afterglow you might whinge and say it hurts your feelings, but not before.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: clean
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2007, 11:12:35 AM »
I'd like to submit that perhaps if one didn't spend so much time trolling on teh intranets for cockage one might not be so affronted by indelicate language by the unwashed "clean" masses.  It's not like mancunt is known for its students of Shakespeare.

Just sayin'

That said, at least you're not lying on your BigMuscle.com profile that you're HIV negative unlike someone else around here.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline komnaes

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Re: clean
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2007, 11:20:03 AM »
One of the replies I can think of is, "why, don't you do safe sex?".

It's strictly from my experiences, people that tend to ask are trying to get some sort of verbal "assurance" so they can do riskier things. If they are confident that we won't be doing anything that have the sightest hint of any risk, there's no reason to ask anyway and mostly they don't. I really do think that, especially among gay guys, those who ask are in their minds doing some serosorting, which as we all know is not a good way to not get infected.

Just my 2 cents, Shaun
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Iggy

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Re: clean
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2007, 12:08:38 PM »
I'd like to submit that perhaps if one didn't spend so much time trolling on teh intranets for cockage one might not be so affronted by indelicate language by the unwashed "clean" masses. 

Gotta agree that when the term mainly comes up in meaningless scenarios, which in itself should  minimize it, if not just altogether make the issue moot.

It's like someone who trolls manhunt all day and night saying, "No addicts, please"  ::)

That said, at least you're not lying on your BigMuscle.com profile that you're HIV negative unlike someone else around here.
   :o
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 12:11:41 PM by Iggy »

Offline milker

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Re: clean
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2007, 12:14:31 PM »
Gotta agree that when the term mainly comes up in meaningless scenarios, which in itself should  minimize it, if not just altogether make the issue moot.

It's like someone who trolls manhunt all day and night saying, "No addicts, please"  ::)
   :o
If it is so prevalent in the AII forum and often coming from heterosexual people, then the use of "clean" has jumped from mancut to the masses, don't you think?

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline komnaes

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Re: clean
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2007, 12:15:29 PM »
That said, at least you're not lying on your BigMuscle.com profile that you're HIV negative unlike someone else around here.

Why? Andrew Sullivan is HERE?  ;D
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Iggy

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Re: clean
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2007, 12:20:45 PM »
If it is so prevalent in the AII forum and often coming from heterosexual people, then the use of "clean" has jumped from mancut to the masses, don't you think?

Milker.

No. I don't agree.  The ignorance didn't begin on manhunt  (and thus  didn't need to jump) - only got a flashier exposure with pretty pictures to boot.

People who use the "clean" label are not interested in information - just perceptions.  Whether you play into those perceptions is up to you.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 12:22:40 PM by Iggy »

Offline thunter34

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Re: clean
« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2007, 12:52:11 PM »
While this is a topic that can pass some time in discussion, I think in reality there are a whole lot of bigger fish to fry than this one.  So I'm gonna quit carping about it.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Ann

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Re: clean
« Reply #48 on: October 16, 2007, 01:00:10 PM »
People have been using the term "clean" to mean STI-free since Hector was a pup. Well, since I was a pup anyway, and that's years before it was ever used on the internet. It's just one of those things that can only change by educating one person at a time. When we encounter it in Am I, we try to wake that person up to the fact that it's an offensive term.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mjmel

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Re: clean
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2007, 01:06:30 PM »
My earlier reply was specifically in reference to HIV related clean/unclean tags.
But then, I wondered why milker keeps asking about the darn word, 'clean'. Having reading all the replies so far I understand now that milker, being a francophone first, is still processing some English words that can have several meanings or implications, depending on how they are use or inferred in conversations.
I think an approach regarding correcting people on usage of this term has to be dealt with on an individual basis. Some are just using the term and not really meaning to be insulting. Others are.
When I hear someone use or say, "I'm clean." ......I normally reference it to being drug-free. It's just the way I process it, first.

Mike
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 01:16:47 PM by mjmel »

 


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