Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 30, 2014, 12:32:47 PM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 632389
  • Total Topics: 47891
  • Online Today: 270
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Question about double infection  (Read 4465 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sacinsc

  • Member
  • Posts: 353
Question about double infection
« on: October 07, 2007, 10:44:01 PM »
I was on the phone with my doctor last week and asked him "Since my genotype came back with no mutations in it, would that mean it was a weaker strain and that if I was exposed to another strain that was mutated and stronger take over the weaker strain?" An odd question I guess but I had been talking it over with my shrink and she by no means a specialist, but the question came up would the weaker strain produce weaker antibodies that the new stronger strain could over power.

His reply was that the strain I have is now mine for like, but it would be possible to be infected with another strain and then I would have to be treated for both.

My question is... is this the so called super strain or mega strain or whatever its called that there have only been a couple of documented cases of? or has this ever happened to anyone?

I know lots of guys out there that once they are poz have lots of unprotected sex with other poz guys....not me...im in the middle of no where. But still is this a legitimate concern I/we should have?

Please let me know your thoughts or where I can get more information before I go to see my doc again 2 weeks from today!

Matt
March 07 - Negative
May 07 - Exposed
June 07 - Seroconversion
September 07 - CD4 402 VL 118000 25%
October 07 -     CD4 294 VL 124000 22%
November 07 - Norvir, Triuvada and Reyataz
December 07 -  CD4 355 VL  550 .... guess the meds are working.
January 08 - CD4 446 VL <48 undetectable!
April 08 - CD4 554 VL <48 undetectable!
July 08 - CD4 666 VL <48 undetectable! Hporay...I have devil CD4's

Offline Basquo

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,251
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2007, 11:11:50 PM »
If you're not having unprotected sex, then you don't need to worry about this.

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2007, 11:25:44 PM »
Like Basquo said.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,205
  • Ninja Please
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2007, 11:54:38 PM »
Hi Matt,

The other two are correct, but perhaps there's more useful answer to your very valid concern.

Super-infection (or as you call it double infection) is extremely uncommon. There are less than two dozen documented cases of "super-infection" around the world to date. It's really not something to fuss about.

The real reason to practice safer sex is not to protect yourself from almost unheard of things such as super-infection, rather it's to avoid the much more substantial danger of infection with things like syphilis, gonorrhoea, chlamydia, hepatitis B and so forth.

Practising safer sex all the time is a worthy but not necessarily realistic goal. Otherwise, why would any of us be posting here?

MtD

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,761
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 12:32:11 AM »
what is the super strain? i have heard of double infection, is this uncommon?
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline sacinsc

  • Member
  • Posts: 353
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2007, 12:37:19 AM »
OK, I can say that me even having sex while living in my parents house is about as much going to happen as my suddenly finding out im the long lost romanov baby. I was just wondering the stats. I do have one thing going for me...I am vaccinated for Hep A and B from when I was a lifeguard at Disney World...go Typhoon Lagoon. Of course like any gay guy, I transferred to parades and shows...and thats a whole nother story for another thread.

So the risk for the super strain is minimal. That is what I thought, it just seemed so I had a weaker unmutated strain that is seems more possible! UGH can this stupid virus complicate my life anymore???
March 07 - Negative
May 07 - Exposed
June 07 - Seroconversion
September 07 - CD4 402 VL 118000 25%
October 07 -     CD4 294 VL 124000 22%
November 07 - Norvir, Triuvada and Reyataz
December 07 -  CD4 355 VL  550 .... guess the meds are working.
January 08 - CD4 446 VL <48 undetectable!
April 08 - CD4 554 VL <48 undetectable!
July 08 - CD4 666 VL <48 undetectable! Hporay...I have devil CD4's

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,205
  • Ninja Please
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2007, 12:38:06 AM »
Hey Next & Matt,

When I said "super-infection" I wasn't referring to a "super strain" but double infection, ie acquiring a second possibly drug resistant strain on top of a person's existing one. It's "super" as in "super-impose" not "superman". ;)

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused by my inelegant phrasing.

Regards,

MtD

Offline sacinsc

  • Member
  • Posts: 353
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2007, 12:40:22 AM »
OK my awesome named Australian.....you now lost me on the last post.
March 07 - Negative
May 07 - Exposed
June 07 - Seroconversion
September 07 - CD4 402 VL 118000 25%
October 07 -     CD4 294 VL 124000 22%
November 07 - Norvir, Triuvada and Reyataz
December 07 -  CD4 355 VL  550 .... guess the meds are working.
January 08 - CD4 446 VL <48 undetectable!
April 08 - CD4 554 VL <48 undetectable!
July 08 - CD4 666 VL <48 undetectable! Hporay...I have devil CD4's

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,205
  • Ninja Please
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2007, 12:50:57 AM »
Hehehehehe.

Super-infection == double infection. They the same thing. :)

MtD

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2007, 12:52:38 AM »
Matty said that the "risk" of getting a strain that is going to be stronger than the wild type that you have has been documented only a dozen times, and is therefore extremely unlikely. What he said about the other STDs is definitely spot on and this is why you should use a condom.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline sacinsc

  • Member
  • Posts: 353
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2007, 08:09:41 AM »
Gotcha! I can learn! Who knew! Guess that didnt take a rocket scientist. I totally understand about the STD's

Thanks!

Matt
March 07 - Negative
May 07 - Exposed
June 07 - Seroconversion
September 07 - CD4 402 VL 118000 25%
October 07 -     CD4 294 VL 124000 22%
November 07 - Norvir, Triuvada and Reyataz
December 07 -  CD4 355 VL  550 .... guess the meds are working.
January 08 - CD4 446 VL <48 undetectable!
April 08 - CD4 554 VL <48 undetectable!
July 08 - CD4 666 VL <48 undetectable! Hporay...I have devil CD4's

Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,784
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2007, 08:32:21 AM »
Imagine you had unprotected sex with someone who is HIV+ on a failing treatment unable to keep the viral load undetectable. That means the strain of that person is resistant to those meds. If that person passes you his/her strain you would have a new resistant strain. Your original strain would remain under control but the new one will replicate indefinetly. If that person is out of treatment options you would be in the same situation.
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2007, 10:11:14 AM »
Imagine you had unprotected sex with someone who is HIV+ on a failing treatment unable to keep the viral load undetectable. That means the strain of that person is resistant to those meds. If that person passes you his/her strain you would have a new resistant strain. Your original strain would remain under control but the new one will replicate indefinetly. If that person is out of treatment options you would be in the same situation.
This is not totally correct as far as I know. Someone that is resistant to a mutation means his or her body has developed resistance to a particular treatment. If this resistant mutation is transfered it doesn't mean in that it will be more virulent in sacinsc's body. If it was, then the number of "super infections" would be dramatically higher. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,784
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2007, 10:21:48 AM »
It does not have to be more virulent. I was not intending to say that. I just mean that if you pass a resistant virus to, for example protease inhibitors, to another person; the new host will have a new strain (that he did not have before) capable of replicating in the presence of protease inhibitors. The new host won´t be able to use those drugs ( because the new strain is resistant to them) to control it. Those drugs wont work.
In the worst of the cases (a person who has developed resistance to all meds available) the strain he/she would pass, would be resistant to all known meds and make treatment impossible, leaving the new host in a difficult situation with no treatment options available.
But this does not mean that the new strain is more virulent or more agressive in terms of replication.
If I remember well, Anniebc, was infected by accident by a young man who was resistant to PI´s She can not use that family of meds because she has a strain resistant to them. This can happen in the case of re-infections many times.
A high viral load in the presence of meds indicates resistance, and a high viral load makes infection with a resistant strain easier. This means you don´t need to be re-infected to be in trouble. Even the one and only infection with HIV can happen with a fully resistant strain if the person who passes it to you has extinguished all treatment options and has a high viral load that no HAART combination can keep undetectable.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 10:48:00 AM by blondbeauty »
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline Bucko

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,947
  • You need a shine, missy!
    • The Spin Cycle
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2007, 03:19:46 PM »
Perhaps I've missed something elemental to this discussion, but many respondents seem to be saying (or at least suggesting) that "their" virus remains constant and immutable until it interacts with another "strain". This is simply incorrect.

One of the biggest challenges to treating HIV is the fact that the virus, "your" lonely virus, is constantly mutating.

I have the benefit of eight and one-half years of treatment (beginning in 1996, continuing through 2004) during which I was 100% compliant in dosing and in the proscriptions of safe(r) sex. Even with both such factors, I tore through most of my available options as the virus mutated and adapted, resulting in a long sorry string of treatment "failures".

One of the chief causes of this was my various physician's fetishistic expectation for me to achieve "undetectable" status. My VL would go very low (usually below 100), but my docs were nearly unanimous in their dissatisfaction with such results. There was no need for me to be exposed to any "alien" viruses for this to happen.
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,784
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2007, 03:42:19 PM »
Your virus might or not mutate at anytime. Some people remain decades on the same treatment without showing any mutation and others need to change it due to resistance even if they stick to the treatment as prescribed.
Your virus might remain unchanged, but new strains can be added to the original one. And those new strains might be resistant to the meds you are taking.
There are resistant strains of many infections. I can get a gonorrhea resistant to meds on top o a classic strain. The classic strain would be cured with antibiotics and the other one remain active. Many infections, strains, etc. can live in a same body.
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline sacinsc

  • Member
  • Posts: 353
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2007, 04:42:27 PM »
I think I am confused again. I have a nonmutated virus...hooray...ok the question is if I were to say have sex with some guy who had a mutated strain could his virus overwhelm my virus and take over giving me the mutated strain.

Now from what I am understand is the following...

This is the super strain and its only been documented in about 12 cases around the world.

I shouldnt have sex unsafe cause I might catch a VD. Cant catch Hep A or B as I am immune and vaccinated.


BTW Bucko....glad your better. I am applying for jobs to teach down in Ft. Lauderdale right now, its either there or DC for me in the next couple of weeks!

Matt
March 07 - Negative
May 07 - Exposed
June 07 - Seroconversion
September 07 - CD4 402 VL 118000 25%
October 07 -     CD4 294 VL 124000 22%
November 07 - Norvir, Triuvada and Reyataz
December 07 -  CD4 355 VL  550 .... guess the meds are working.
January 08 - CD4 446 VL <48 undetectable!
April 08 - CD4 554 VL <48 undetectable!
July 08 - CD4 666 VL <48 undetectable! Hporay...I have devil CD4's

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2007, 06:19:46 PM »
I think I am confused again. I have a nonmutated virus...hooray...ok the question is if I were to say have sex with some guy who had a mutated strain could his virus overwhelm my virus and take over giving me the mutated strain.

Ok so you have a virus. This virus has a well known structure and is often referred to as the "wild type" virus. Then it starts replicating in your cells. By replicating it will make mistakes, and create mutants. Those mutants are most of the time non viable, that is, unable to replicate. They will not affect your immune system and will disappear into oblivion.

Some of those mutants, however, get more viable, and can replicate to a certain point. But their replication rate is ridiculous compared to the wild type virus, and therefore is of no concern: when it comes to the meds, they will attack the wild type and the mutants at the same time. The combos use 3 to 5 different ways to attack the virus, whichever strain it is.

There are things that may create resistance:

- for some people, the "normal" doses are not potent enough, and the virus still replicates
- adherence is not perfect, this creates "holes" in the medication process, and the virus "takes advantage" of it.

What is often said is "if someone is resistant and gives you a resistant strain, then you're superinfected". No, you get a another strain that is resistant for that person, it doesn't mean it will be resistant in your body, and it is very unlikely that it will override the strength of the wild type virus. Also, remember that your body is still creating antibodies and fighting the virus, whichever strain it is, so it's not like it's going to give up because a mutation occurred.

Milker.

PS: by trying to simplify the answer I realize that this may create more questions, but this is a very complex process !
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline penguin

  • Member
  • Posts: 747
  • The Penguin Whisperer
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2007, 06:31:10 PM »
this is rather a familiar topic ... also see matt's post in this thread here for more info, with link to a good, normal english CAPS fact sheet on superinfection

kate

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,877
  • the one and original newt
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2007, 06:46:59 PM »
OK

Milkie makes some very good points

This "superinfection" thing is hard to get your head round.  First off its "super" like in "superstructure". In science "super" means "over".

An HIV infection is like a jar of sweets, a mixture.  But the different sweets are fighting.  One type (in HIV this is "wild type" ie non-resistant non-mutated HIV usually) gets pole position.  Most of the sweetie/HIV mixture ends up as one type sooner or later << within 3 years.

But the different sweets/HIV are fighting and evolving.  Each day, when it makes copies of itself, HIV makes tiny mistake. These are called mutations.  Most mutations are defective and get eliminated.  Plus HIV drugs are so strong, a slightly more aggressive mutation usually doesn't stand a chance. Them drugs is bombs.

But some mutations can thrive under the right circumstances.  These circumstances: ARV drugs usually.  If the mutation is not affected by a drug then it can reproduce at will but only in the presence of the drug.

Some people find the HIV virus that establishes itself in the mix as top dog is replaced in pole position, for often unknown reasons, by a second strain of HIV virus.  Remember they're fighting. The virus population isn;t fixed.  This can sometimes look like you got a second infection. But close examination reveals it was just a change in the balance of power, and the second strain was present from the beginning.

There are therefore just a handful, like under 10, confirmed cases of people getting a new HIV infection that affects disease progression and/or treatment options << this is the important bit. There are a few more may be/may be not cases.

So, to answer the question:


Quote
I were to say have sex with some guy who had a mutated strain could his virus overwhelm my virus and take over giving me the mutated strain.

Yes but it's so damn rare, and requires the right circumstances. For one, being on a drug that creates the circumstances for the resistant mutation to thrive.

In terms of a license to BB with other positive people what Matty said is v important.  Syphilis for example, can crash your CD4 count, and it may not recover too well.

- matt
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 06:56:07 PM by newt »
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,877
  • the one and original newt
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2007, 06:49:08 PM »
Ta Kate for finding my previous post. IOU a mint striped beanie btw.

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline sacinsc

  • Member
  • Posts: 353
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2007, 09:19:36 PM »
Newt, that was a mouthful. I believe now that I understand my risks. Since I am not on meds as of yet. (I go in for my 2nd line of tests 2 weeks from today - Monday) Therefore by what I am reading, and trust me I am probably wrong, their are two things I need to consider...1. My virus can mutate or if I had BB sex (like any sex is going to happen) then there is the slightest of chance that I may get a mutated strain that can over power mine. 2. If I get on meds, its possible for a mutated strain to take over because it likes the cocktail im on.

The real reason not to do anything (sex wise) is to not catch anything else.

Bearing this in mind, I caught syphillis in February, and took 4 shots of the antibiotic. I have the antibodies for that in my blood, therefore my CD4 count was prob low, and thats what allowed me to catch this damn virus in the first place. Does anyone know since I have syphillis antibodies in my system helps protect me for the year that the doc says they will be in there, or if my CD4 is in real danger of not going up because of the syphillis earlier in the year combined with the new infection.

Trying to get a total handle on this is so difficult. And depressing, but I want to be so prepared for it.

Thanks milker, penguin and newt

Your helping me cope at the moment and really answering a lot of my questions.

Matt
March 07 - Negative
May 07 - Exposed
June 07 - Seroconversion
September 07 - CD4 402 VL 118000 25%
October 07 -     CD4 294 VL 124000 22%
November 07 - Norvir, Triuvada and Reyataz
December 07 -  CD4 355 VL  550 .... guess the meds are working.
January 08 - CD4 446 VL <48 undetectable!
April 08 - CD4 554 VL <48 undetectable!
July 08 - CD4 666 VL <48 undetectable! Hporay...I have devil CD4's

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2007, 09:44:17 PM »
Matt,

it's normal and healthy to ask questions, and in the case of HIV we think we know everything when we're negative and when we become positive it turns out to be a totally new world.

You will not have to go on meds next week, and certainly not in the next 6 months, so if I were you I wouldn't even bother looking at medication information for now or your brain will soon explode !

I wouldn't either take up my mind by thinking that I'm currently creating mutants, that sounds like a horror movie, and when we emphasize on mutants we forget that the body is effectively fighting billions of HIV with tremendous success every day. It's just that at one point this is overwhelming and the body needs external help.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline komnaes

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,893
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2007, 12:35:49 AM »
Isn't this whole discussion also about serosorting, not for prevention but for HIVers like us who want to stick to having sex only with other pozzies? The risk of other STDs cannot of course be ignored, but just for other own management of HIV, I think what I want to know is:

1. If one is not on meds yet, what are the possible consequences of one having unprotected with other pozzies? i.e. will it affect my VL and CD4? etc

2. If one is on meds, what are the possible consequences of me having unprotected with other pozzies? i.e. will it affect the effectiveness of the treatments by creating resistence, etc?

It will be good to get some insight on these issues as I realize managing my sex life is a very important part of managing my virus. I can see there are temptations ahead of going bareback with a fellow pozzie.

Shaun

(who's already received some "invitations" but has refused so far)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 12:37:43 AM by komnaes »
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2007, 01:14:12 AM »
I don't think this post was about serosorting, but read newt's posts for your answers on 1) and 2).

Part of it has already been answered in this thread, the rest you can find by doing a search. This has been discussed before.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2007, 01:53:04 AM »
Well damn, I am more confused than ever.... ???
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2007, 02:06:45 AM »
Well damn, I am more confused than ever.... ???
Why sweetie
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2007, 02:24:44 AM »
I guess it is just confusing for me, Milky. I don't know how simple someone could explain it. I always thought my virus was kinda "slow" considering it has been with me this long and just starting meds. But the original virus is known as the wild type? Not that I would pick up a second strain since I am not getting any booty anyways. But maybe mine was slow because the person I got it from never took meds. His thinking was the meds would kill him faster than the virus. I guess for some ignorance is bliss. But if I got with someone who was on meds like me and if they had an undectable vl than it would be harder to pass on to me? I'm not sure if I am getting any of this....
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,877
  • the one and original newt
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2007, 03:19:47 AM »
Queen A, I wrote this (edited slightly for re-posting) in another thread.

I repeat it here, since it may answer your question:

Infection requires quantity of virus, quality of virus and opportunity for transmission.  Treatment reduces quantity and quality of the virus therefore reduces the chance of infection and re-infection.

The closer your HIV infection and treatment history to the other person the less likely unprotected sex will result in a second HIV infection.  If you and the other person have the same kind of HIV, have an undetectable viral load, use the same treatment and have the same treatment history then the chance is prob. ZERO.  The risk rises as you and the other person's HIV situation start to differ.  The biggest factor here is viral load.

My doc is fairly strong on this, his view is that people with undetectable viral load regardless of treatment pose each other no risk.

Different people will fairly draw different conclusions based on the same analysis.

- matt
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 03:28:46 AM by newt »
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2007, 11:18:36 AM »
Queen, "wild type" means "the most common", one that has not naturally mutated. It does not mean wild like "extravagant" :D

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline sacinsc

  • Member
  • Posts: 353
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2007, 12:49:00 PM »
Oh, I thought wild type meant I got it through wild sex. Hmmm my mistake :)

It seems to appear to me that I should just watch out for STDs rather than the super infection etc.
March 07 - Negative
May 07 - Exposed
June 07 - Seroconversion
September 07 - CD4 402 VL 118000 25%
October 07 -     CD4 294 VL 124000 22%
November 07 - Norvir, Triuvada and Reyataz
December 07 -  CD4 355 VL  550 .... guess the meds are working.
January 08 - CD4 446 VL <48 undetectable!
April 08 - CD4 554 VL <48 undetectable!
July 08 - CD4 666 VL <48 undetectable! Hporay...I have devil CD4's

Offline Bucko

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,947
  • You need a shine, missy!
    • The Spin Cycle
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2007, 02:52:48 PM »
Queen, "wild type" means "the most common", one that has not naturally mutated. It does not mean wild like "extravagant" :D

Milker.

I'd prefer to think of my virus as more misunderstood than actually wild  ;D

Seriously, The main point here, aside from the mechanics of still poorly-understood mutations in HIV, is whether or not less-safer sexual practices can be accommodated into one's repertoire of play, provided it's done under the comforting rubric of serosorting.

As I've said many times here (and elsewhere), it boils down to risk assessment and risk management. Proper risk assessment involves the kind of questions you're asking and understanding the answers you're receiving. This education helps you make the responsible choices (for both you and your partner(s)) that are the responsibility of everyone living with the virus.

Some choose celibacy, some limit their sexual play to specific people or groups of people, with further subsets of what with whom, others are total pigs.

Discussing this theoretically has limited effectiveness, and no real-life application for you. It's only once you're back out in the field that the real concept of acceptable risk as it relates to you and your sexual needs can be discussed with reason and clarity.

Brent
(Who has his own set of limits, odd though they may seem to others)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2007, 12:22:16 AM »
Thank You Bucko, Newt, and Milker for your explanations. I think I get it now. Since my ex from back in the day gave this gift to me, we still were civil even though inside I was having a break down. He never took meds as he thought it would kill him faster and he prolly still doesn't if he is still around. But then again I wonder...

I will have to wait to see how my numbers look after the draws since I have only been on Atripla and Ziagen for a month. Someone had asked me here awhile back why am I taking Ziagen if I have never been on meds that the Atripla should be enough. I posed this question to my clinic nurse Leah and she told me that I am in resistant to one of the meds in Atripla something begining with an E that is why I am on the Ziagen. So would this mean the ex lied to me once again and actually did take some type of med if only for a short time? Am I getting this right?
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2007, 12:36:04 AM »
Queen,

i won't comment on medication as I am not qualified and have not studied them. I'm sure your doctor is doing the right thing but it seems like you want to understand better what's going on, and have a better explanation of what he's prescribing and why. Why not start a new thread? Begins with an E ? Ecstasy ? :D

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Question about double infection
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2007, 12:41:02 AM »
You are right, Milky. I guess I will copy and paste and begin another thread. I do not want to hijack this one..
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.