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Author Topic: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge  (Read 4056 times)

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Offline komnaes

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  • Posts: 1,893
ONLY in Singapore, but it can start a trend...

http://www.fridae.com/newsfeatures/article.php?articleid=2045&viewarticle=1

September 29, 2007 
Guilty even if you didn't know
By News Editor
 
Not knowing one's HIV-positive status will not be a sufficient defence under proposed changes to the Infectious Diseases Act (of Singapore). AIDS and legal experts Fridae spoke to say they are unconvinced that proposed amendments will be effective in reducing the spread of the virus.
 
Proposed changes to the Infectious Diseases Act might make Singapore the first and only country in the world to hold a HIV-positive person liable for infecting someone even if he is unaware of his status.

According to a press release issued on Friday, the Health Ministry (MOH) will conduct a 6-week public consultation from 28 September to 9 November 2007 to obtain feedback on the proposed amendments.

Under current laws, it is an offence “for a person who knows that he is HIV-infected, to have sexual intercourse if he does not first inform his partner of his HIV status, and obtain his partner’s agreement to accept the risk of infection.”

The maximum penalty for the offence will be raised, from a S$10,000 (US6,700) fine and two years' jail, to a S$50,000 fine and 10 years' jail.

MOH has proposed to amend the current laws to make it an “offence for a person who is unaware of his HIV status, but who has reason to believe that he has been exposed to the risk of contracting HIV, to engage in sexual activity unless he takes certain steps to protect his partner from infection before or during the sexual activity.”

The steps include having:
- informed his partner of the risk of contracting HIV infection from him and that the partner has voluntarily agreed to accept the risk; or
- tested negative for HIV and he had not, between the time of his test and sexual activity with the partner, engaged in any activity which might have exposed him to the risk of HIV infection; or
- taken 'reasonable precautions' during sex, such as using condoms

The ministry says it is considering this radical step as efforts to educate the population on the prevention and control of HIV has proven ineffective. It also cited its concern of the prevalence of undiagnosed HIV in Singapore after a Health Ministry study found that 1 in 350 hospital patients in Singapore is HIV positive but is unaware of their status.

When contacted by Fridae, a Bangkok-based HIV specialist said that while the proposed amendment may deter those who know or suspect they have HIV from having unsafe sex with their regular partners, the situation is very different from MSM, some of whom have multiple anonymous sexual partners.

“It would be much better to encourage people from learning their HIV status than discouraging them by an avalanche of negative consequences.”

The researcher who is attached to a large international research and prevention organization added: “We need to engage people to take responsibility for each other and for themselves and feel good about this, and not punish them. The latter is not exactly a positive reinforcement of behaviour.

“The criminalisation of MSM sex in Singapore doesn't help to have a rational discussion and look for human and compassionate solutions for the complicated issues we are facing.”

Don Baxter, the Executive Director of the Australian Federation of AIDS Organisations (AFAO), cited a paper published in the Arizona State Law Journal this year which found that there is “no evidence that the presence of laws which criminalise HIV transmission function to prevent or deter HIV transmission.”

AFAO and its member organisations do not support the institution of criminal offences specifically relating to transmission of HIV/AIDS or other diseases, and urge the continued use of evidence-based public health interventions to combat HIV/AIDS, with coercive measures employed only as a last resort.

The total number of known HIV-positive Singaporeans is 3,338, with 278 infected in the first eight months of this year.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2007, 06:35:34 PM »
In a way, it is fucked up, if a person doesn't know but then what if a person does know and uses idk as an excuse? I am curious to see others opinions on this. I hope this thread doesn't get buried.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline BT65

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2007, 07:32:18 PM »
I don't like the sounds of this.  I suppose Bush, with all his wisdom (yeah, right) would think this was wonderful and want to try it out here, in the U.S.  I don't put anything past him.  I just hope we have wiser decision makers if this ever gets proposed.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline komnaes

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2007, 01:05:39 AM »
I spoke to some friends in Singapore and some of them are seriously concern with the way things are going. First, a couple of months ago grandpa Lee, the self appointed senior minister, Lee Kuan Yew suddenly started a debate on whether gayness is nature of nurture, sounding all empathic. Then suddenly newspaper articles were all over place that seemed like a genuine debate was going on, and finally a showdown between pro-gay scholars and the churches and "social leaders" in a very high profile open debate.

Second, came a debate on whether to decriminalize homosexual acts (yes, in Singapore they still have a pre-Wolfenden laws they had as a colony) and while the government appeared to be neutral, officials suddenly made an announcement that the society was not ready to accept homosexuality. Then less than a week later, a proposed legal amendment to further stigmatize HIVers, depicting us as monsters that are out there to infect and hurt innocent people.

And what's that for - to reinforcement the prejudice against gay men and HIVers, keep us as the ultimate outlaws so the Singapore government can safely open the casino they have approved some months ago. In other words, some believe, the whole debate on homosexuality and HIV is staged to create such an outrage that no one will bother to question again why a hypercritic government, which always has to have the moral high ground, would have allowed gambling to be legalized.

This whole manipulation of social opinions, which is not uncommon, is very upsetting. Just a few days ago the Church groups in Hong Kong have started "thinking aloud" why don't we do something similar here.

Shaun

(who's in despair)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 01:08:56 AM by komnaes »
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Paulette

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That's really screwed up ??? how can they do that ( they r the government ) they can do whatever they want to.  I believe it should be a crime to knowingly expose someone; which it is in most states, but if you have no knowledge of having the disease, than that would be f**ked up.  but just maybe more people would get tested and would find out their true status instead of playing a guessing game. then maybe just maybe we could end the spread of this disease.
Interesting!
Paulette
I have HIV; it doesn't me;)

Offline leatherman

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In other words, some believe, the whole debate on homosexuality and HIV is staged to create such an outrage that no one will bother to question again why a hypercritic government, which always has to have the moral high ground, would have allowed gambling to be legalized.

Sounds like that gov't is taking lessons from the American legislators, who tell people it's better to bomb Iraq/Iran/? than to have the nice gay boys and girls be able to get married. ::) You'd think that war/crime/gambling/pestilence/famine/? would destroy the social fabric of society; but no, it's men "getting it on" with men that will destroy the world as we know it. ;)

mikie
(who does think more people should voluntarily get tested and disclose to help stop the spread of HIV)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline HealthyMomma

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  • Posts: 128
If they dont know then I dont get how they can be in trouble. Kinda stupid if you ask me. Wear a condom or you could go to jail! People have heard of HIV. They know they can get it from having unprotected sex. Do we really have to hold their hands and make sure they use rubbers? Come on now....

Offline ronaldinho

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  • Posts: 79
If a person does is not aware of his HIV + status is because he has not been tested after being infected. So, if this person has sex with another person, and afterwards they both test positive, how can anybody know for sure who infected whom??

Offline dixieman

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  • Posts: 889
I think the proposed law is to make everyone accountable for being aware of their status... trying to make the populas get tested! for hiv... its running rampant in that part of the world...  also trying to make people accountable for their actions and to make protected sex... using condoms more prevalent... different culture... I see no problem with the governments solutions... It should have been done in the USA from the get go then many who are now infected would not likely have become infected... 

Offline Moffie65

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  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
This is why I live in Arizona, U.S.A.!!!!

This new proposed set of legislation is really stupid, because last time I checked, it takes two to become infected.  How can only one be held accountable when there are always two in an infection scenario? 

Why is this thread in the Off Topic, as it is so ON TOPIC, with HIV that it should actually be moved to Living With Forum?

Love,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline JohnOso

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2007, 06:32:43 AM »
Nothing surprises me about Singapore anymore.


Hold up....perhaps I should amend that to nothing surprises me about the US anymore.

 :-[

John

Offline komnaes

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2007, 04:24:06 AM »
It seems like the debate on homosexuality and HIV will go on... some of my cynical (or realistic) friends told me it's just the continuing attempts by the government to divert public attentions on its new casino.

http://www.fridae.com/newsfeatures/article.php?articleid=2049&viewarticle=1

October 6, 2007
Open letter to singapore’s prime minister urging the repeal of gay sex laws
By News Editor
 
An online campaign is underway to persuade the Prime Minister of Singapore to reconsider the retention of Section 377A of the Penal Code as the city-state is now conducting its first major review of the penal code in 22 years.
 
Organised by a group of concerned Singaporeans, an Open Letter will be submitted to the Prime Minister of Singapore to urge the abolishment of Penal Code section 377A – a law which criminalises sex acts between consensual gay men.

In a press statement released on Friday, organisers of the letter feel that the proposed changes would "for the first time in Singapore’s history, actively discriminate against a Singaporean minority and violate an individual’s right to privacy."

It added that such a move is "out of step with modern social norms and misaligned with global trends to end discrimination against the gay community."

Organisers hope that Singaporeans and Permanent Residents, regardless of background, gender or sexual orientation will support the cause.

One of the organisers, Alan Seah, owner of former nightspot Happy, said in the statement: "The purpose of the exercise is to engage the Singapore government in a respectful manner, but with conviction. We want to work openly within the system to try to effect change. This issue directly affects the gay community but it is also an issue that affects all Singaporeans who are against discrimination and who are concerned about their individual rights. If you share a vision of a Singapore where fairness, harmony, tolerance and open-mindedness flourish, then we encourage you to sign this letter too."

"There is a small window of opportunity here to try to get our leaders to consider repealing Section 377A. By repealing only Section 377 and not Section 377A, we are in fact moving backwards, which defeats the government’s goal of updating our criminal laws to keep in step with Singapore’s image as a modern and forward thinking country," Seah said.

"By not repealing 377A, we risk setting an alarming precedent in the way our laws deal with minority groups. Section 377A is a symbol that alienates an invaluable section of our community who have without doubt contributed to the success of Singapore across all industries. I fear that leaving 377A in our Penal Code will encourage more of our most talented individuals to leave our shores. And in a country like ours, where our citizens are our most valuable asset, these are people we can’t afford to lose."

A relic of British colonial rule, the city-state’s gay sex laws has been frequently debated since November last year when the proposed amendments were first announced.

In April this year, Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew surprised many when he questioned the city-state’s ban on gay sex.

Addressing a youth rally, he said: "If in fact it is true, and I have asked doctors this, that you are genetically born a homosexual — because that's the nature of the genetic random transmission of genes — you can't help it. So why should we criminalise it?"

Other advocates of repeal include Member of Parliament Baey Kam Keng and Nominated Member of Parliament Siew Kum Hong who both spoke against keeping Section 377A on the books at a public forum on the issue in July.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline hudstar

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  • 2010
Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2007, 02:44:39 PM »
Same laws exist here in Australia under John Howard. Micro-chipping has also been suggested LOL ! I do not see the problem if someone with HIV chooses not to tell his/her status to some one night stand if they use protection. Another story if they do not tell the partner and knowingly have unsafe sex.  Anyhow, I just see it as Stigma fuelled by decadent democracies that have gone mad with plenty of stupid money to be wasted on stupid claims regarding here say situations. Does that mean if I kiss a smoker that I did not know was a smoker, am I then a misled "victim" with the rights to sue because I had the potential to suffer from passive smoking. Come-on, it is truly ridiculous. Besides, if not kept in check, this law could become a dangerous government tool i.e they will legally control the sex lives of those they deem "unfavourable" I think this is a backlash to the "shocking" stories of those few idiots that go out "bug chasing".Lets face it, most politicians are not humanitarian based, they are predominately "financiers" with low emotional intelligence. I can see a lot of backlash occurring from this law. I can also see a lot of young hustlers finding a market in targeting "HIV" poz people for the sole purpose of suing under this act.
diagnosed 1988
POZ personals - hudster

Offline hudstar

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2007, 02:52:48 PM »
Sounds like that gov't is taking lessons from the American legislators, who tell people it's better to bomb Iraq/Iran/? than to have the nice gay boys and girls be able to get married. ::)

Leatherman, I cannot tell you how much Johnny and George have been in league over many HIV/gay/same sex marriage issues. John Howard cracked more than walnuts on his last  visit to the Bush ranch, he returned venomous spewing out biblical fire and brimstone!
diagnosed 1988
POZ personals - hudster

Offline vokz

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2007, 03:03:48 PM »
I wouldn’t expect anything less in Singapore. I lived there for a number of years in the 70s and 80s and always went out of country to get my sexual health screens .. after an acquaintance was sent to prison for presenting with anal gonorrhoea.

I can also see a lot of young hustlers finding a market in targeting "HIV" poz people for the sole purpose of suing under this act.

Hustlers are generally pretty well known, so I would imagine that they would have a hard time getting anyone to take a complaint seriously .. even if the person they were trying sue knew that they were HIV-positive.

The advice we give out to the working boys in London is that they, because of their occupation, have zero chance of getting charges pressed against a client they suspect of infecting them – because the legal establishment will simply say that they have so many partners that it will be impossible to make a case against any one individual.

Offline hudstar

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2007, 03:26:46 PM »
Maybe I misused the term hustler i.e hustlers = rent boys and I apologize for that. I'm speaking more about the opportunity for entrapment that could arise from such a law.
diagnosed 1988
POZ personals - hudster

Offline hudstar

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2007, 03:34:10 PM »
If a person does is not aware of his HIV + status is because he has not been tested after being infected. So, if this person has sex with another person, and afterwards they both test positive, how can anybody know for sure who infected whom??

A recent case was proven by DNA testing.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/07/1083881474308.html?from=storylhs

« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 04:12:56 PM by hudstar »
diagnosed 1988
POZ personals - hudster

Offline komnaes

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2007, 12:48:25 AM »
A recent case was proven by DNA testing.

I wonder what sort of DNA testing can establish a strong case - I suppose what it's been established is that the infected tourists have the same virus with identical DNA strain, and the man infecting them has been on treatments for some times and there are also evidences showing that (i) the infected tourists had never met the man before until the alleged recent sexual encounters, (ii) the infected tourists could prove that they were not HIV+ before these encounters and (iii) the infected tourists did not have other unprotected/risky sexual encounters during the period.

What the judge said in the hearing quoted by the report confirmed my worse fear about this type of laws - it's too easy to protrait the infecting party as some sort of monster and must be locked up to protect the society. The message it's sent to the public is that they will be safe as long as those people are being locked up, and all those people that are negative and still sexually active don't have to worry about protecting themselves.

With infection rate still going up in places despite such laws making it crime not to disclose, many governments will start looking for scapegoats and what better scapegoats than gay men that are HIV+.

Shaun
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline vokz

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2007, 01:44:35 AM »
There have been a number of criminal prosecutions here that were supposedly ‘proven’ through DNA testing, but there is now pretty compelling scientific data to show that investigations of alleged sexual HIV transmission cannot be proved conclusively by scientific evidence alone (http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/BD89A7E1-3801-49F5-9B36-DBBC05A17154.asp) - and that all it can ever conclusively prove is that the virus from the person under investigation and the complainant are NOT closely related to each other.

In the latest prosecution using this sort of evidence alone, the jury didn’t even get an opportunity deliver their own verdict. The judge directed them to return a ‘not guilty’ verdict.

NAM/NAT Briefing Paper HIV Forensics: The use of phylogenetic analysis as evidence in criminal investigation of HIV transmission http://www.nat.org.uk/page/4507
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 02:21:18 AM by vokz »

Offline komnaes

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2007, 02:11:55 AM »
I really doubt DNA test can be "conclusive". It's not like a DNA test on body fluids like semen found, say, on a rape victim. But then it also needs other supporting evidences to prosecute, though I have seen even weaker evidences in successful convictions.

What I fear is that it's rather inevitable that this type of cases usually are show trials. Prosecutors tend to pick cases that there are strong supporting evidences (e.g. from one spouse to another, usually the unfaithful male to victimized female; some psychos who do knowingly try to infect others in dubious circumstances, etc), and those cases usually reenforce the worse type of social stigma, which in a circular sort of way affects how cases are picked for prosecution by the courts.

It will be interesting how far the SG government will try to push for this law of "construction knowledge" be sufficient for criminal prosecution.

Shaun
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 04:20:54 AM by komnaes »
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline 404error

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2007, 04:01:49 AM »
In a country where caning is still used as an acceptable form of punishment, it should come as no suprise that human rights are taking a back seat to the creation of new laws.
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline hudstar

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  • 2010
Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2007, 12:15:57 PM »
Better pack my chastity belt and DNA home testing kit - I'm in Singapore on Monday! :D
diagnosed 1988
POZ personals - hudster

Offline komnaes

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2007, 09:18:31 PM »
Better pack my chastity belt and DNA home testing kit - I'm in Singapore on Monday! :D

It's hard to keep your hands from those hunky SG men, good luck Hudstar! ;D

But seriously, right now, touch them without disclosure there IS a crime, even with no infection.

Shaun
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline hudstar

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  • 2010
Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2007, 01:58:39 AM »
It's hard to keep your hands from those hunky SG men, good luck Hudstar! ;D

But seriously, right now, touch them without disclosure there IS a crime, even with no infection.

Shaun

I'm sure there are many hunky guys - the world is full of handsome men. Unfortunately for me, stigma has done a real treat on my sense of sensuality and even if a guy stares me straight in the face, it ain't gonna happen. Some of the south pacific islands I pass through with work would put guys like me to death (or at least a humiliating beating) if I was identified. In "island paradise" cultures, having HIV is an unspeakable abomination. So hunky guys or not, stigma is global and it's not a real basis for me exploring my sensuality - even if the backdrop is pacific paradise. Stigma, unjust laws and cultural attitudes play an ongoing mental game that feeds my already screwed up mindset towards intimacy. I' ll stick to nature walks and body surfing to wear down my instinctive urges.  :P Laws like Singapore and laws being passed here in Australia will have no UN intervention. It brings reality to "All animals are equal, some more than others". What is maddening is that the mainstream gay crowd have been "dumbed down" to activism. As long as they have plenty of money, party drugs and can throw thier legs up in the air - within the confines of clubs and pubs they wave the rainbow flag and believe activism is alive and life is good.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 03:22:07 PM by hudstar »
diagnosed 1988
POZ personals - hudster

Offline komnaes

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2007, 02:24:10 AM »
I' ll stick to nature walks and body surfing to wear down my instinctive urges.  :P

I didn't know they have big enough waves to do body surfing in Singapore. ;D
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline hudstar

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  • 2010
Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2007, 02:37:25 AM »
LOL, no they don't. I'm on to Tahiti and Hawaii straight after Singapore, I'll do it there. Talking about dodging legislation - I have to hide my pills when I enter Hawaii (Its illegal for me to enter USA)  ;D
diagnosed 1988
POZ personals - hudster

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2007, 08:32:28 AM »
I think the proposed law is to make everyone accountable for being aware of their status... trying to make the populas get tested! for hiv... its running rampant in that part of the world...  also trying to make people accountable for their actions and to make protected sex... using condoms more prevalent... different culture... I see no problem with the governments solutions... It should have been done in the USA from the get go then many who are now infected would not likely have become infected... 

Smaller population (Singapore) = Realistic/conceivable, easier to manage(?)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 08:37:55 AM by allopathicholistic »

Offline jkinatl2

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  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2007, 08:56:52 AM »
The criminalization of HIV has yet to curtail infections on a statistically significant scale. I shall not, ever, endorse it as a preventative or retributive measure.

The DNA testing mentioned is woefully inaccurate, and at best is exclusionary. It can prove a nagative viral association, but certainly not a positive one. Add this to the fact that HIV mutates at an ungodly rate, and within weeks of infection has become a strain unique to the individual, and any prosecution based on such testing is purely speculative.

I am always amazed at the lengths governments and individuals will go to avoid the simplest solution: promote condom use and remind people that their bodies belong to them. So long as mysogeny and the stigmatization of the infected are acceptable practices,  throwing people in prison and carving up the tips of their adult penises will have precious little impact on the pandemic.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline komnaes

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  • Posts: 1,893
Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2007, 09:33:33 AM »
I am always amazed at the lengths governments and individuals will go to avoid the simplest solution: promote condom use and remind people that their bodies belong to them. So long as mysogeny and the stigmatization of the infected are acceptable practices,  throwing people in prison and carving up the tips of their adult penises will have precious little impact on the pandemic.

I cannot possibly sum it up better!

Looking at the case in Singapore sends a chill up my spine. The officials keep saying that they have done "enough" to educate people, so if education alone doesn't work making it a crime is the only option to deter. Then you look at the reality - in a uber conservative and mostly Chinese society like Singapore, no one ever talks about sex. Basic sex education consists of only teaching school kids of human reproductive system in biology classes and teachers'/parents'/government's constant nagging from their moral high-ground and repeating like a broken record that premarital sex, adultery, homosexuality are all bad bad bad as if those things do not happen among the adult and self  righteous population.

There's no government support on local organizations and since "sodomy" is still a crime, no one dares to do aggressive outreach to the gay population which is most affected by HIV. The health care system for HIVers are so bad and stigmatized that most Singaporeans I know go to Bangkok for treatments, but this option is only for those fortunate enough to afford the costs. Then because of such bad attitudes among health care providers most gay guys will not get tested because, first, the question of how they got it will come up, and it alone can send them to jail and, second, while many are still in the closet, the SG government doesn't see any problem of informing their family members.

So, lots of them wait and hide their heads in the sand, and the inevitable result is that many don't get tested and treatments until they get really sick. And then, it is used by the officials as justification for proposing this amendment to make it a crime not to disclose even one has reasons to believe that s/he might be positive.

My take is that it will only get worse in Singapore.. and then one can expect even more draconian laws.

Shaun
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline hudstar

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  • Posts: 130
  • 2010
Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2007, 01:46:42 PM »
It is like Government is forcing people to take on sero-sorting attitudes by enforcing it by law.
diagnosed 1988
POZ personals - hudster

Offline hudstar

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  • Posts: 130
  • 2010
Re: Laws to make it a crime to infect someone witih HIV even without knowledge
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2007, 02:55:20 PM »

I am always amazed at the lengths governments and individuals will go to avoid the simplest solution: promote condom use and remind people that their bodies belong to them.



Very true! Like I said before, people have become "dumbed down". Here in Australia, the "Exclusive Brethren" financially support the Howard Government with big wads of God's money! Can you believe couples in Australia get $5,000 per child - hows that for Government funded procreation............... you screw, we pay! ..... and yet Howard and his henchmen "examine ways of tightening things up"  as he condemns Australian citizens with HIV moving across state borders and tries to launch a ban on all HIV positive people from immigrating.........

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21551915-5001021,00.html

....... and my country has the gall to sing "Advance Australia Fair" as its national anthem! Some type of hysteria is going on in the Asia Pacific region and it ain't good! Did Singapore do a deal with Australia recently? I wonder!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 02:57:45 PM by hudstar »
diagnosed 1988
POZ personals - hudster

 


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