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Author Topic: coconut oil. Whats the deal?  (Read 12234 times)

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Offline Morton Salt

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  • Posts: 98
coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« on: October 07, 2007, 09:14:34 PM »
Is Coconut oil worth taking at all or is it poppycock?  Anone have any real significant changes while taking this oil?
~Mort

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2007, 09:32:26 PM »
It's poppy cock babe.

MtD

Offline JamieD

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 04:48:05 PM »
Unlike MTD assertion I prefer to look at scientific evidence, and not just assume things.

There have been many scientists who have hypothesized that coconut oil, or more specifically the lauric acid in coconut oil might be effective against HIV. There have, however, been little to no clinical trials on the matter to support it's use one way or another.
When you hear the phrase "There is NO evidence to support it" try to find out if it has been studied at all. There is a good chance that it hasn't even been studied.

If you want to give it a try, and you do not require medications at this time, then go ahead. Get a quart of the oil and see if there is any benefit in your viral load or CD4 cell counts. If not, then not. If yes, then maybe.
I would give it a try, but I certainly wouldn't go off of meds to try it.

Offline milker

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 04:52:07 PM »
Jamie,

the "studies" were done in the Philipines. The Philippines also supply two thirds of the global demand for coconut oil.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline JamieD

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 05:58:26 PM »
Okay, so therefore there is no scientific evidence either way. Or I shjould say there is no peer reviewed scientific evidence.
Although since MTD is a long standing member here I will tke it in good faith that he has probably performed clinical trials of his own and for some unfortunate reason the results haven't made it into peer reviewed journals.

Am I the only one who thinks its wrong to say something doesn't work when there is no peer reviewed scientific evidence either way? I don't like assumptions. I prefer things be backed up with HARD scientific evidence. MTD claim is not.

Offline milker

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2007, 06:31:31 PM »
Coconut oil was already discussed a long time ago in a thread that unfortunately didn't make it when the forum software was changed a couple of years ago. There have been a couple of short threads about this in the last year or so. Every possible treatment or supplement have been talked about and every time there is research done by members to see what the studies look like and if there is anything promising. At one point it is clear for many members that some of the supplements discussed are flat out quackeries and we don't bother discussing this in detail anymore unless something new is discovered.

It can be frustrating to get a one liner response, but I can assure you that discussing Coconut Oil extensively is way more frustrating and always ends up in stories about bathing, massaging and who knows what else.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline pozattitude

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 06:42:43 PM »
I love coconut!!!! Macaroons, mounds...in Brazil they have a delicious coconut desert called Quindim....I love that stuff...oh and Thai food cooked with coconut milk...yummy....
oops...sorry I though this was about eating coconut...

Don't know anything about coconut oil and HIV...but you can use it as lube, that's for sure.  ::)



« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 07:06:19 PM by pozattitude »
POSITIVE PEDALERS... We are a group of people living with HIV/AIDS, eliminating stigma through our positive public example.

Offline milker

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2007, 06:43:20 PM »
...but you can use it as lube, that's for sure.  ::)
see... :D
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline JamieD

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2007, 09:48:36 PM »
so because it was discussed on this board "extensively" then there is no need for scientific evidence? AIDSMEDS trumps peer reviewed scientific evidence? I searched PubMed for an hour today and I found no placaebo controlled clinical trials that show that it doesn't work. It would be very simple to do actually. Since treatment in the early phase of HIV is not recommended it is not unethical to not give HAART at that time. They can take 100 people and give half coconut oil, or whatever the active ingredient is thought to be, and the other crisco (trans fat free). And if the group that has taken the coconut oil has lower viral loads or higher CD4 cell counts it should then be studied more extensively to see if it was the coconut oil causing it.

To me.... that would decided whether or not it was "poppy cock" and not a discussion on a forum of people who seem to have no interest in real scientific evidence and prefer conjecturing instead.

Offline milker

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2007, 09:52:24 PM »
so because it was discussed on this board "extensively" then there is no need for scientific evidence?
You didn't read me well or I didn't explain well. I said it was discussed, researched and it was decided that it's quackery. That's all I said. I never said there was no research, I never said it should not be discussed, I said that if it was to be discussed again it would be a trivial exercise and go nowhere interesting as a potential help for breaking HIV proteins or helping the immune system to fight harder.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline egello

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  • cb
Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 10:09:06 PM »
however, coconut is a great fat to consume like butter is
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline JamieD

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2007, 11:13:48 PM »
How did the scientists of AIDSMEDS decide it was quackery without evidence against it?  ???

Offline thunter34

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2007, 11:15:25 PM »
Perhaps if we put the lime  in the coconut...
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline milker

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2007, 11:49:58 PM »
How did the scientists of AIDSMEDS decide it was quackery without evidence against it?  ???
What are you talking about, Jamie. You are well versed in reading technical bulletins and medical studies. What makes you think that Coconut Oil is the next best thing to help the immune system against HIV to a point that it becomes something that HIV positive people should seriously take into account?

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline egello

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  • cb
Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2007, 11:57:21 PM »
I know a few things about Coconut Oil, because I tried it and it does not work. There is this holistic doctor in Hawaii who was gay and hiv poz and he really really believed the acid in Coconut Oil will kill HIV. He however died a few years ago, and that sent shocking wave through all those holistic jumbo mumbo people. Old news. You can eat all the coconut oil in the world that you like, but it won't do anything for you, believe me on this.

I still use coconut oil for stir frying and cooking for its a great oil to use for high temperature cooking.
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline JamieD

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  • Posts: 259
Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2007, 11:59:03 PM »
What are you talking about, Jamie. You are well versed in reading technical bulletins and medical studies. What makes you think that Coconut Oil is the next best thing to help the immune system against HIV to a point that it becomes something that HIV positive people should seriously take into account?

Milker.

I NEVER said it was the next best thing. EVER. Not once. Read my responses.

If it has potent action in vitro then it should be studied. It's cheap, and it tastes good. If it works, then it works. If it doesn't then it doesn't. This entire thread I have been talking about NOT dismissing things when there is no evidence one way or another. I proposed that study investigators put together a study in which a bunch of people who are not currently in NEED of medication take coconut oil, and the rest take crisco. If the people on coconut oil have lower VL or higher CD4 cells then larger studies should be conducted to see if it was in fact the coconut oil. I never suggested anyone go off meds, stop taking prophylaxis, becoming reckless with their lives, or any other such thing.
I think it should be studied simply because it is so cheap, and it tastes good. I didn't conjecture one way or another as to what results would be achieved. I simply didn't dismiss is as quackery when there isn't any evidence to dismiss it on.

Offline JamieD

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2007, 12:04:51 AM »
Milker,

My doctor put me on Lithium for HIV related fatigue. I can not find a single piece of evidence to support its use for that, but it works wonders. Is my doctor practicing "quackery"? Or can it not be "quackery" if its a legitimate pharmaceutical?

Offline milker

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2007, 12:13:05 AM »
I agree you never said it was the next best thing, sorry about that. I disagree that we should spend more time on coconut studies. I'll go in detail why tomorrow, it's too late for now. But if you look at the legitimate research done, it's going nowhere.

Lithium is prescribed for depression and mood disorders, mainly. Note that I AM NOT a doctor, NOT trained, and everything I'm saying is by self education, and I may be wrong, and you may know more in your particular subject of interest.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline JamieD

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2007, 12:18:52 AM »
All I know is that when I am not on Lithium I am extremely tired ALL THE TIME, no matter how much I sleep. My doctor suggested a small dose of Lithium (600 mg) and it went away entirely about 5 days after I started taking it. If I stop taking it, after about 5 days it comes right back. And you know what? There will NEVER be a clinical trial on this because Lithium is dirt cheap and there is no money to be made off of it.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2007, 12:42:57 AM »
To briefly address the use of lithium for HIv fatigue, all the information I found on the topid indicates that lithium causes, but does not allieve, fatigue. It is used for mania and other chemical imbalances, but there is no labeled use to combat HIV fatigue

More to the point, litium actually seems to cause viral replication in vitro. Which seems to contraindicate it's usefulness as a legitimate therapy against HIV related fatigue.


sources:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/470017_8

http://www.natap.org/2006/HIV/040506_01.htm

If lithium is being prescribed off-label as an anti-fatigue medication, then I am genuinely confused. All indications seem to point to it's use as a valuable and necessary medication to treat severe bipolar disorder, with the unfortunate side effect of causing profound sleepiness and sluggish mental capacity. It is a vital drug in treating those who have the most profound chemical imbalances, but like any psychotropic, comes at a great cost.

I have found zero evidence that litium is a stimulant of any sort. Someone is not telling the truth regarding this prescription.

However, regarding coconut oil and HIV. Given the proven scientific inquiry that HIv meds (and arguably, a side effect of HIV disease itself) cause high cholesterol, using a proven dangerously high cholesterol product like coconut oil, even in asymptomatic persons, would be unethical. Especially when and if these patients need to go on drugs which already raise those unhealthy levels.

I can fully understand why, given the state of the medical art, a coconut oil study would not be a wise undertaking.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline JamieD

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2007, 12:48:04 AM »
Coconut Oil is absolutely 100% cholesterol free.

I do realise that Lithium can cause fatigue, but it's eliminated mine. And that's all that matters to me.


Source: Clin Biochem. 2004 Sep;37(9):830-5.

Title: Beneficial effects of virgin coconut oil on lipid parameters and in vitro LDL oxidation.

Abstract:

OBJECTIVES: The present study was conducted to investigate the effect of consumption of virgin coconut oil (VCO) on various lipid parameters in comparison with copra oil (CO). In addition, the preventive effect of polyphenol fraction (PF) from test oils on copper induced oxidation of LDL and carbonyl formation was also studied. DESIGN AND METHODS: After 45 days of oil feeding to Sprague-Dawley rats, several lipid parameters and lipoprotein levels were determined. PF was isolated from the oils and its effect on in vitro LDL oxidation was assessed. RESULTS: VCO obtained by wet process has a beneficial effect in lowering lipid components compared to CO. It reduced total cholesterol, triglycerides, phospholipids, LDL, and VLDL cholesterol levels and increased HDL cholesterol in serum and tissues. The PF of virgin coconut oil was also found to be capable of preventing in vitro LDL oxidation with reduced carbonyl formation. CONCLUSION: The results demonstrated the potential beneficiary effect of virgin coconut oil in lowering lipid levels in serum and tissues and LDL oxidation by physiological oxidants. This property of VCO may be attributed to the biologically active polyphenol components present in the oil.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 12:51:28 AM by JamieD »

Offline milker

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2007, 12:52:58 AM »
I agree with jk. If Lithium was prescribed as an anti-HIV fatigue, that's a new one, basically.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline JamieD

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2007, 01:00:21 AM »
Like I said, works for me. I wouldn't be popping it into my mouth if it didn't.

Offline JamieD

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2007, 01:06:03 AM »
I've posted this too before. It's of a "related" note.
http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/102271455.html

My guess is that you'll just say the people at the NIH are practicing quackery.

Offline thunter34

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2007, 01:17:35 AM »
Is it me...or is this thread getting far more heated than anything like coconut oil should ever warrant?
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline JamieD

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2007, 01:23:58 AM »
It's getting heated because I suggested that it should be studied and not just shrugged off as dumb. And that got translated to me thinking it was going to be the solution to rid the world of AIDS, that all people with HIV should stop their prophylaxis NOW, as well as stopping any and all other medications.

All I said was that I think we shouldn't shrug possible cheap, low toxicity solutions out the window so readily. If a jar of coconut oil cost $500 then I wouldn't suggest that, but it cost less then $10. If it works then great, if not then oh well. I'd prefer it be studied in a sample of people who do not need to take medications at the moment, so as to see whether or not it works scientifically. Egello saying it doesn't work is not scientific because we all know there are some meds that people take that don't lower their viral loads.

Offline bryonut

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2007, 01:24:56 AM »
Is it me...or is this thread getting far more heated than anything like coconut oil should ever warrant?

Coconut oil can be heated to very high temperatures according to egello. Lets find out!

 ;D


Offline thunter34

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2007, 01:27:33 AM »
Coconut oil can be heated to very high temperatures according to egello. Lets find out!

 ;D




It can also be used to get things heated up quite a bit, per pozattitude. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline egello

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2007, 02:11:17 AM »
Dude, Jamie,,, why don't you try it out for yourself and see if that works. If I were you, I would rather spend my time doing yoga and eating healthier well balanced meal and getting plenty of good stress free rest than digging up all these research on line.
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2007, 02:14:26 AM »
Poppers will increase your cd4 counts quicker than any damn coconut oil.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline joemutt

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2007, 04:58:54 AM »
Poppers and let's not forget the papaya, ripe and unripe.
I have never read a study that said it doesn't help.

edited to make it more messy.

Offline JamieD

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2007, 09:55:09 AM »
Dude, Jamie,,, why don't you try it out for yourself and see if that works.

I am not going to try it because I NEED meds right now. My VL is undetectable already.

Offline Cerrid

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2007, 10:26:43 AM »
I am not going to try it because I NEED meds right now. My VL is undetectable already.

And you would probably put on some weight, too.
"Boredom is always counterrevolutionary. Always." (Guy Debord)

Offline milker

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2007, 10:59:00 AM »
Ok I just spent 45 minutes looking at scientific studies on lauric acid, monolaurin, etc etc and all I see is websites that report studies from the CDC that do not exist, references to pubmed that are irrelevant, 99% of the websites are commercial websites that use medical mumbo jumbo and have no real medical proof, they usually cite the Philipine study and Dr Kabara who is obsessive about using coconut oil to cure AIDS.

so I, personally, will not add coconut oil in my diet and I, personally, stand by Matty's response.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
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apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
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Offline bryonut

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2007, 12:42:23 PM »
POPPERS?
COCONUT OIL?

Count me in!
 ;D


Offline newt

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2007, 04:23:29 AM »
Quote
To briefly address the use of lithium for HIv fatigue, all the information I found on the topic indicates that lithium causes, but does not allieve, fatigue.

Lithium is a standard treatment for bipolar disorder, and regulates mood to an even level.  However, a large percentage of bipolar disorder has no manic phase, just a depressive one << shit knows how they diagnose this presentation but this is what they sez... Therefore it seems a reasonable and relatively well used off-label prescription for other depressive mood disorders.  Fatigue is an indicator symptom of depressive mood disorders, so this seems a reasonable extrapolation. Indeed there are some encouraging rat studies (a rat study) but not much more than a jotter page of human ones. Fatigue is a difficult bugger to find a cause and in my experience frequently results in an off-label prescription that, er, works. Ritalin would be a good example.  Although there are encouraging small scale human studies eg in cancer (and bigger ones planned), the label for Ritalin does not indicate its use to combat fatigue.

So back to the thread, coconut oil.  Nice taste, good food supplement perhaps, but anti-HIV activity, the biochemistry is not in favour of it reaching the virus post-digestion. SO many things that work in the test tube are crap in the body (like eg bleach).

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline vokz

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2007, 05:25:41 AM »
Although it may not be a widespread treatment, various lithium salt compounds have now been specifically used to treat fatigue in HIV patients for over a decade. If he knows his stuff, which he seems to do, then I really don’t see why it should be considered so remarkable that Jamie’s doctor chooses to try a treatment that was shown to be effective in treating fatigue in many patients monitored in clinical trials.

The reason lithium salts are not used more widely is the justifiable fear of their side effects (which can also include fatigue); but as Jamie clearly states, his doctor has him on a very low dose, so that may not be an issue.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 05:41:22 AM by vokz »

Offline madbrain

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2007, 06:13:12 PM »
Hi JamieD,

Milker,

My doctor put me on Lithium for HIV related fatigue. I can not find a single piece of evidence to support its use for that, but it works wonders. Is my doctor practicing "quackery"? Or can it not be "quackery" if its a legitimate pharmaceutical?

I hope your doctor is monitoring your lithium levels and your kidneys. My grandfather got severe bipolar disorder in his 60s and was treated with lithium. His doctor kept checking him. But he got tired of doing the blood tests all the time. So he got a "friend" pharmacist of him to refill his lithium without tests.  About 10 years into it, his kidneys started to fail severely, and he had to start going on dialysis. Something that shouldn't be wished on anyone. The kidneys had been ruined by the lithium because they had not been monitored. He was never expected to survive through dialysis 3 times a week for 10 years as he did. He eventually died of a heart attack following one of his sessions about 5 years ago, in his mid-80s. I think he would have survived longer if he had been monitored and switched to something other than lithium in time.

I have bipolar as well - it runs in the family, but I got it at a much younger age, 18. And bipolar means manic episodes, which are more rare, but far worse than the depressive ones, believe me. I take something else for it, tegretol. In me, that one seems to have caused some several vitamin D deficiency. There is no miracle drug I am afraid. Just be sure to ask your doctor about the long-term side effects of lithium and to monitor you frequently. You can do it at the same time as your other labs.

Offline lemurzoo

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2007, 06:48:24 PM »
  Hey guys, think you are all missing the boat on coconut oil, not as an anti-viral but as nutritional support. I belong to a group in Sarasota FL called HEALTHY PWA (persons with aids) PROGRAM. The nutritionist (certified) has been teaching the class for 13 years and trust me she knows what she's doing! She brought the subject of coconut oil up some time ago. However i don't consider it an anti-viral!
  Coconut oil is a Medium-chain-triglyceride and is therefore easily assimilated by the body for use in the nervous system and readily used for energy production and also useful for cell wall makeup. A member who is poz has a neighbor who has MS (no hiv) and is mostly unable to use silverware. After two weeks of 1 teaspoon every morning on toast she was able to use it to feed herself! It doesn't taste like coconut if that would bother you, i just do a teaspoonful . If that's not nutrition I don't know what is! I can say it's not going to do taht for everyone. But  I can't say I've had any huge improvement like that, except for lessening of neuropathy, especially my right hand since I injured it as a child. Just the fact that I'm now able to type without pain is one indication.
  We are in the early stages of videotaping for dvd and  web viewing of these classes and hope to sell them for a modest charge ($5.00) to benefit the PWA Program.
 

  By the way, the studies that were done years ago about coconut oil was paid for by producers of other types of oils to make their oil look good! Always check who paid for the study before believing their outcome!
   
« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 08:41:46 PM by Ann »

Offline Ann

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2007, 07:49:45 AM »
Hi Lemurzoo, welcome to the forum.

While I appreciate what you're saying about coconut oil, I have to let you know that we do not allow links to commercial sites and I need you to remove the links you posted in your reply. If you don't, I will.

Posting commercial links is against our Terms of Membership which you agreed to when you became a member.

Quote
Messages posted to the AIDSmeds.com Forums must not contain marketing information, either from a pharmaceutical company; a healthcare provider (i.e., seeking to provide services to the HIV community); or the manufacturer or distributor of a complementary, alternative, herbal, traditional, and/or surgical treatment approach.

Normally when such links are posted, we remove the entire post. However, since your post also contains details of your own experiences as a person living with hiv, I don't want to do that. All I'm asking is that you remove the links.

You may also want to read our Welcome Thread so you can learn more about this forum and website.

I'm looking forward to hearing more from you and I hope you don't let this little faux pax put you off from being an active member of this community.

Ann
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Offline lemurzoo

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2007, 04:01:28 PM »
Must have missed that about retail site, so how do I delete?

Offline Ann

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Re: coconut oil. Whats the deal?
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2007, 08:43:13 PM »
Hi again Lemur,

You can only edit your own posts within 48 hours of posting - so I removed the links for you.

Hope to see you around the forums.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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