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Author Topic: I am going out of my mind  (Read 5498 times)

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Offline What are the odds

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I am going out of my mind
« on: October 04, 2007, 01:27:22 PM »
Hi,

I am a young 20 year old male and I have been out for two years. Though it seems that I want to get out of this lifestyle because of a traumatic encounter that I had with someone I was dating four weeks ago.

One month ago, guy my age whom I was dating spent the night at my house and we made out (which I am aware is not a risky action) and we had frottage exposure as well as mutual masturbation.  One week later, we both went in to get tested, which is something I do with everyone I date. Except this time, the person that I was dating actually came back positive. This has me very freaked out and worried about my status.

I know that there may have been pre cum that came in contact with my penis which was infectedÖ. That is the only thing that worries me. I also have acne soars on my arm which I am hoping that he didnít touch his penis and then rub my arm during frottage. There was no anal penetration what so ever and I am very scared!

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2007, 01:32:01 PM »
And also, I am wondering about this window period thing. It seems as if everyone is saying that you have to live out the nightmare for three months before you can know for sure. But I also hear that a four week test will show 95 percent of those who are infected after a recent exposure. Is this true? 

Another thing I donít understand is that I hear that mutual masturbation is ďsafer sex.Ē But when you are with an infected partner, isnít that dangerous? I mean, when someone is infected and their cum makes direct contact with your penis, isnít that the same as your penis making direct contact with their anal secretions? To me it seems like It would all be considered the same risk.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2007, 02:03:00 PM »
Read our lesson on Transmission. There's a link to it in the Welcome thread which opens this section. None of the activites you have mentioned are risks for HIV transmission. As far as HIV is concerned, the thing to be concerned about is vaginal or anal intercourse. And as long as condoms are consistently used for those activities then the HIV status of your partner(s) doesn't matter. You will be well and securely protected.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2007, 02:48:11 PM »
That is what I don't understand. How is it not a risk when there was obviously unprotected exposure to his penis secretions during frottage. Is that not the same as unprotected anal secretions? 

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2007, 04:11:21 PM »
HIV is a fragile virus. It needs a very welcoming environment for transference to take place. A penis INSIDE an anus is such an environment. There's time and place for the virus to get into the urethra or under a foreskin if the penetrating partner is uncircumcised or into t he bloodstream of the person who is being penetrated.

Jerking off together or frottage is not even remotely that kind of setting. Which is why transmission doesn't happen that way. 
Andy Velez

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2007, 06:13:57 PM »
I understand the statistics that proclaim intercoarse to me the exclusive and most common route of transmition. The only reason why I am freaking out is because I have arm acne with skin abrasions from scabs. I am FREAKING out that residual pre cum from his hands could half infected one of those skin breaks.

It's only a theoretical occurrence, but I am keeping in mind that he is confirmed HIV positive and I am worried. I tested negative at 23 days with a rapid test, but I know that my nightmare of worries wont end for a couple more months. I don't know how I am going to live.

So I understand that if there was an infection I most likely would have tested so by now?

Offline Ann

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2007, 07:09:58 PM »
what,

There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

If hiv were as easily transmitted as you seem to think, then just about every person in the world would be hiv positive by now. Hiv is NOT transmitted via casual contact, which is actually what you are describing. Hiv is very fragile and slight differences in temperature, pH levels and moisture content quickly damage hiv and render it unable to infect. Successful hiv transmission occurs INSIDE the human body, as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and it doesn't matter if your sexual partner is hiv positive or not. Using condoms is all the protection you need and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2007, 07:24:24 PM »
Ooooo so you mean to say that if I stay 100 percent risk free, I can expect negative results?  I hope you are correct.

By the way ANN, I would like to know if there have been any people on this forum who have posted questions similar to mine yet returned after the window period with positive test results. Just curios.

Offline Ann

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2007, 07:42:30 PM »
What,

No, I've never seen someone post about frottage or getting someone's cum on their acne or cuts or scrapes or what have you and then end up testing positive. The ONLY people in the Am I Infected forum who have ever come back with positive results have been those who were having unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse.

And that's no surprise. Sexually speaking, unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse is the only way people get infected.

Make sure you read through those condom and lube links so you can be sure you're using them properly.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2007, 08:09:08 PM »
I was just wondering, I have read through some threads in the forum where people have just been diagnosed. It seems as if there have been some instances where people have sworn not to have been involved in risky activity yet still turned positive.

I know that people like me who are in the worried well can be pretty annoying. But it is in our nature to investigate the statistical integrity in order to sooth our anticipation. But since you are the administrator and seem to have excessive experience in the HIV culture, I will take your word for it.

So my next question is, during your time in these vast forums, have you encountered anyone who tested positive after a four week negative without any preceding risk? I would only hope to be able to push my fears aside when I test at 30 days. I already tested negative at 23 days and would like that to show some kind of sign that I may be out of the woods.... what do you think of my situation? How likely are my results to change based upon what you have seen in the past?

Offline Ann

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2007, 08:36:18 PM »
what,

You didn't have a risk and you don't need further testing. You ARE hiv negative.

People just don't test positive without having had a risk.

As for the people on the other side of the forum, sometimes people who are newly diagnosed have difficulty coming to terms with things they did to put themselves at risk. Sometimes they don't remember due to drug and/or alcohol use. Maybe you should just stay out of forums that aren't meant for you.

You didn't have a risk and unless you decide to start having unprotected intercourse, your results are not going to change. You ARE hiv negative and you do not need further testing.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2007, 09:15:33 PM »
What,

I hear you've been using the Private Message function to contact forum members to question them. We don't allow this and you need to read this thread.. If I hear of you doing this again, you just might find yourself with a time out or even a ban.

While you're at it, make sure you read the posting guidelines found in the Welcome Thread. Don't make me tell you this stuff again. OK?

Thank you for your cooperation.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2007, 11:05:51 PM »
Sorry Ann,

I didn't know that we were restricted to PM between forums.

It is of high benefit to interact with someone of the opposite status.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2007, 11:11:41 PM »
It is of high benefit to interact with someone of the opposite status.

Actually no, it isn't.

HIV positive people aren't here to serve your various needs and whims. Clearly your inappropriate PM's offended someone and they felt the need to report you.

Try thinking about somebody other than yourself.

MtD

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2007, 11:27:36 PM »
Huh.

I don't want my thread to serve as a confrontation platform in this forum.

Seeing as how I did not address anything directly concerning this persons status or personal story in the PM, I thought it was appropriate.

I had no idea that what I did was in the least bit offensive.

Offline Ann

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2007, 07:15:55 AM »
What,

It doesn't matter that you didn't ask anything personal. The people who are qualified to answer questions already answer questions in this forum and the people who have the patience to answer the repetitive questions this forum generates are also already working in this forum. There is no good reason to go asking questions via PM of people who do not work in this forum.

This is not negotiable. Do it again and you'll be banned.

Ann


Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2007, 12:32:08 PM »
Okay. Understood.

I find it rather frustrating when I search the web, and on many legitimate websites, you can find that infection through open breaks in the skin is lists amongst the most COMMON of entry routes for HIV from semen, genital fluids and blood.

This seems to be  the only place where everyone seems to disagree with the likelyhood of that happening, nearly reducing the theoretical risk to impossible.

I know you say I have no risk, seeing as how I have never had intercoarse, but I do have many scabs and sores from acne on my skinwhich is why I greatly fear residual infection during sexual frontage because of that. And after finding out that my partner was confirmed to be HIV positive, I can't seem to keep it together.

Yes it is true, I am aware of those reports stating that many couple can remain as opposite status couples. But I think that when you are aware of the other persons status, you can be more prone to making sure that they avoid contact with your skin abrasions, which is something that I did not think of because I didn't know my partners status.

I am SOOOOOOO WORRIED.

Offline in the waiting game

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2007, 02:41:35 PM »
I think the only thing that is going to appease your mind is a neg result. I am praying that you get your neg result. As Andy and Ann both have said to all of us from now on assume that everyone is pos. Till you know concretely for sure otherwise.

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2007, 03:17:11 PM »
Yea I hope they are all negative. I mean, this was the first and LAST time that I will be having a sexual encounter with anyone.  The fear of going through such anxiety is not worth even the slightest risk for those of us who were not designed to endure such emotion trauma.

I have learned a great lesson here and hope that my risk, as ANN said, was non existant. 

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2007, 03:43:45 PM »
What, Ann's remarks and evaluation are based on longterm, HIV-science based experience.

Your anxiety of course is grounded not in science but in feelings and feelings are not facts. You can talk about living a celibate life but frankly I don't see that as healthy alternative. If and when you get around to having sex of any kind again, all you have to do is to always use a condom for vaginal or anal intercourse and you're covered in terms of sexual risks. We know that from experience, longterrn studies and decades in the epidemic.

Right now your head and your feeling are telling you otherwise. If you continue to feel so intensely I suggest you see a counselor or other professional to get some support with the emotional aspects of this situation.

HIV is happily not your issue and inevitable negative test result will confirm that for you. In the meantime, whle you're waiting you need to stay productively busy. It will make the waiting time pass more quickly and comfortably than you may imagine is possible.
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2007, 04:56:43 PM »
This post is directed at both "What" and "In". Stay out of each other's threads.


I find it rather frustrating ....

And I find it rather frustrating when people don't bother to read our forum posting guidelines, despite being repeatedly asked to do so.

What, you were not at risk for hiv infection during frottage, regardless of whether you got cum on your acne or penis.

Make sure you read the Welcome Thread - you're quickly heading for a time out.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2007, 09:41:11 PM »
Okay ANN I understand.

I was not aware of that policy either. I think I got it now.
Well I got tested again today at 25 days. Negative.....

I think that the clinics are going to ban me from there too. I will probably meed to wait this out..... at least until six weeks.

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2007, 04:06:36 AM »
Anyway, I have to say that for those who are waiting it out that online research is the most destructive addiction that one can do.

Ann and the other experts proclaim that sores do not offer a significant risk, yet SO many other sites from HIV health clinics around the country say that sores offer direct access to the blood stream.

Well, of coarse, it is an external route, which would make it more difficult to transmit as ANN said... but still, so much  information, so damn confusing!!!

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2007, 01:29:11 PM »
Also, I mean, say that if you took someones fresh ejaculate and used it as a lubricant for masturbation assuming that the person was infected.  From a certain prospective, I do not see how that wouldn't be considered high risk behavior. Inside or outside of the body, that seems high risk to me.

Not saying that I did that or anything, but it just don't think that using the whole "primarily transmitted inside the body" rule is a good solid line.  Not doubting the experts here, but I know that post-ejaculate lubrication is a common sexual behavior, and to me would seem high risk if the ejaculate was infected.

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2007, 01:43:21 PM »
Anyway Ann, would love to know your thoughts on the previous post.

Offline Ann

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2007, 02:08:19 PM »
what,

You're absolutely right when you say " post-ejaculate lubrication is a common sexual behavior" and believe me, if this were a viable transmission route, we'd know about it and we'd be warning people of the dangers.

Hiv just isn't transmitted in this way.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2007, 02:37:16 PM »
Annnnnnnn

So you are telling me that the virus is truly rendered harmless once it exits the body almost instantaneously? 
I don't know......................... I wish there was a more absolute understanding of the disease. 

The information on the web is not consistant when it comes to the information between the information on large institution websites and forums such as these.


Offline Ann

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2007, 03:00:09 PM »
what,

I suggest you take a deep breath, turn off your computer and go out and get some fresh air and exercise. The more you search the internet the more conflicting views you'll get on ANY subject matter. Our advice is based on current scientific evidence, not religious or political thinking.

The surface of hiv is very fragile and needs to be in a very specific environment in order for this outer shell to remain intact. This outer shell MUST be intact in order for it to be able to latch on to a very few, very specific cell types and infect. It's difficult enough for hiv to be transmitted INSIDE the body. Outside, it doens't stand a chance under the circumstances you're talking about. You didn't have a risk.

Make sure you use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse - correctly and consistently - and you will avoid hiv infection. Really. It IS that simple.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2007, 03:31:23 PM »
Yea?

Well... the nerve racking process of getting tested is incredibly stressfull that one tends to question everything. 

I think what a lot of us want to know is, where exactly are these "current scientific" resources? 

Ann you are a mentor to many of us.  Your right, I will be taking a walk. But please get back to me.

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2007, 03:59:50 PM »
I am getting mentally sick.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2007, 04:45:50 PM »
Odds,

We appreciate that you're stressed but really posting plaintive, whining messages in your thread isn't going to make things any better.

Andy advised you to seek the help from a mental health professional and I urge you to do the same. You didn't have a risk, your problem is not HIV and you need to get a grip. We cannot assist you with your mentral problems.

You also should be aware that you are quickly wearing out your welcome with us. You will not be permitted to use this forum to wring your hands obsessively about a non-risk issue.

Move on before you're moved on.

MtD

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2007, 01:55:03 AM »
Matty-

...Nevermind.

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2007, 04:25:59 AM »
Soooooooooooooooooooo

Does anyone have an opinion on Dr. H's take on his six week philosophy? (At medhelp.com)

Is it really okay to forget about the three months rule?

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2007, 04:50:59 AM »
Hmmmm.

Long answer: yes, with an if . . .
Short answer: no, with a but . . .

Some places such as the US state of Massachusetts have a standard of a 6 week window period, given the particular sort of antibody test used there. Everywhere else the window period is 12-13 weeks. Here at AIDSmeds we continue to adhere to the CDC standard of 13 weeks.

None of this applies to you and your case, of course as YOU DIDN'T DIDN'T HAVE A RISK IN THE FIRST PLACE.

MtD

Offline Ann

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2007, 06:25:45 AM »
What,

For FUTURE REFERENCE ONLY (as you do not need testing over this NO RISK incident) the vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, but when there's been a REAL RISK, a six week negative MUST be confirmed at three months.

You didn't have a risk for hiv infection. If you'd read the Welcome Thread like you're supposed to, you would have read the following:

Quote
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

I will not warn you again about posting over this no-risk incident.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline What are the odds

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Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2007, 04:13:48 AM »
I was thinking of a questions and couldn't seem to come to terms with what the answer might be... This is not another question of me obsessing over a situation but...

If HIV is truly a retro virus and recreates itself inside of the body, and people say that you need a lot of virus in order to transmit, then wouldn't even a little amount of virus that enters the body be able to multiply and eventually infect?

JUST A QUESTION.

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: I am going out of my mind
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2007, 06:42:16 AM »
What,

Hiv has to infect before it can multiply. It is not like a bacteria which can multiply independently. Hiv needs to be inside specific human cells in order to reproduce.

You did not have a risk for hiv infection. Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you won't have a risk in future either.

Your warning still stands.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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