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Author Topic: Restitution?  (Read 4935 times)

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Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,761
Restitution?
« on: September 29, 2007, 09:32:41 PM »
Alright, so I have been pretty miffed about my infection. I found out on Sept 12 that I was poz and life has has been hectic since then. Thank goodness for my wonderful support group, but things still are rocky. Had to take some time off from work, deal with the financial aspect of my new condition, grapple with mental and emotional ramifications and then still deal with life. I am sure everyone knows what I am talking about here. Aside from all of this, there is one nagging questions that I cannot drop- what if dude knew he was positive before engaging in sexual activities with me?

Okay, I am far, far from innocent. But I have been a good person over the years, engaging in mostly safe sexual acts. I get tested regularly and believe in condom use. This year I slipped up (more than once) in a moment of weakness and had unprotected receptive anal sex. Before doing the deed, dude & me talked about out statuses. We concluded we were both neg and proceeded to fuck like bunnies. I thought for the first 2 weeks that he didn't know he was infected when we fucked, but now I am not so sure. I believe he did know and this is based upon a conversation we had at another point in time.

Basically, he told me he had been ill with an incommunicable disease and he was STD free (once again, my stupidity). He went on to say there was  problem with his med history and his doctor had misinformed him on how to take his medicine. This miscommunication would leave him terminally ill and he may not be with us in a couple of years. Don't get on my ass about this, I didn't know the specifics of cocktails and treatment then and I was a lil emotionally vulnerable. I was hoping for some unrealistic shit, but that's beside the point.

So now I am thinking dude lied to me. We spoke on the day I found out I was poz (I called my recent sexual partners and informed them) and he said he would get tested and that he was neg. There are only 2 people who could have infected me, one, who does not really fit the time frame for infection (i was neg in jan & april/may and we had sex one time on april 1st). I got really sick in early april and had to make multiple trips to the hospital (I believe this is when I seroconverted). I had sex unprotected sex multiple times (4 or 5) with dude from jan. The kicker with dude is that he broke it off when I made him wear a condom (don't know if it's the actual reason, but in retrospect it was shitty timing).

That's the background. After discussing all this shit with select family and friends one possible outcome has been to bring the matter up to the department of public health. Because I cannot prove I was infected by him but know he is a likely candidate I feel something should be done. Further more, if he did lie to me, knowing he was positive (possibly in denial) then he could possibly infect someone else . Lastly, after telling him I was positive, he pretty much all but terminated all of our ways of communication. If he was terminally ill with an undiagnosed disease and choose to have unprotected sex knowing he could pass on the disease then he lied and totally did something horrible. This is why I'm miffed, and this is what I hope to have reconciled. Once again, this is only a theory and it has been haunting me lately.

Any thoughts would be nice.

 
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline Matty the Damned

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  • Posts: 12,198
  • Ninja Please
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2007, 09:37:28 PM »
Ah yes, the AIDS Blame Game.

Babe the problem with trying to apportion blame for your infection is that ultimately you'll discover that you're the one responsible for your infection.

You decided to have unprotected sex and as a result you have to wear the consequences of that decision. It doesn't really matter what he knew or didn't know. It's happened now and trying to pin this on him doesn't change the fact that you have HIV infection.

As hard as it might seem, you should avoid heading down this road. It will only leave you unsatisfied, angry and bitter.

MtD

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,941
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2007, 09:49:14 PM »

Okay, I am far, far from innocent. But I have been a good person over the years, engaging in mostly safe sexual acts. 

 

I'm afraid there is no such thing as mostly safe sex. Your concern now should be your emotional and physical well being. Too late for the blame game, you chose to practice mostly safe sex with resulting consequences.

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2007, 11:02:14 PM »
The whatifs will lead you nowhere. Take care of yourself, you cannot be his mentor, and whatever truth he will tell you, you will not accept it.

Let it go and focus on yourself.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,761
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2007, 11:21:00 PM »
Wow, so this has been the response so far. It's not so much the AIDS blame game, at least I don't think so. I am not sure, you all know this better than me. I appreciate the advice and will sit on the issue. But what about  the other people he is having unsafe sex with? Is it everyone's fault for trusting him. I mean we had a conversation about this and he lied possibly infecting me. From my standpoint, if he had not none about his status, I wouldn't care. I read the majority of HIV transmission happens because people do not know what their status is. I find it to be a moral imperative to inform and tell my partners of my status, to let them decide what is safe for them. I just wish the same had been done for my case. As for myself,  I am working on my condition and I am a lil peeved by this. As a matter of fact, I have a coffee date with a rather nice gentlemen tonight (why are you awesome people totally putting me on the defensive?)

Obviously no one wants to be positive and it is clearly no one's fault. But last time I checked, non disclosure or deceit that results in HIV transmission was illegal in my state. With that in mind, it appears that others independent of myself have thrown in their 2 cents. Yes, no one wants it, but when one can prevent it and chooses not too, shouldn't there be some form of restitution involved?  Lastly, I don't want him thrown in jail or fined, but I do need some form of closure. I am doing what I can to prevent this from happening to others-- isn't that the best outcome?

Hey guys, I am still listening to your advice, so let me know your thoughts. Thank you again, for responding, I am digesting it all : )
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline northernguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,347
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2007, 11:31:02 PM »
...So now I am thinking dude lied to me. We spoke on the day I found out I was poz (I called my recent sexual partners and informed them) and he said he would get tested and that he was neg. There are only 2 people who could have infected me, one, who does not really fit the time frame for infection (i was neg in jan & april/may and we had sex one time on april 1st). I got really sick in early april and had to make multiple trips to the hospital (I believe this is when I seroconverted)....

I think your feelings are understandable, but it would be tough to prove.  You mentioned you had unprotected sex on April 1 with person 2 and were sick soon after.  If you had an HIV test in April, I believe it may have been too early to detect antibodies. So they might have been the culprit.  The other thing is were you having other "low risk" sex at this time?  Remember, "low risk" does not mean "no risk".   So that's another wildcard.

Apr 28/06 cd4 600 vl 10,600 cd% 25
Nov 8/09 cd4 510 vl 49,5000 cd% 16
Jan 16/10 cd4 660 vl 54,309 cd% 16
Feb 17/10 Started Atripla
Mar 7/10 cd4 710 vl 1,076 cd% 21
Apr 18/10 cd4 920 vl 268 cd% 28
Jun 19/10 cd4 450 vl 60 cd% 25
Aug 15/10 cd4 680 vl 205 cd% 27
Apr 3/11 cd4 780 vl <40 cd% 30
Jul 17/11 cd4 960 vl <40 cd%33
April 15/12 cd4 1,010 vl <40 cd% 39
April 20/12 Switched to Viramune + Truvada
Aug 2/12 cd4 1040, vl <40, cd% 38
Oct 19 cd4 1,110 vl <40 cd% 41

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2007, 11:45:51 PM »
I chose to tell all the bareback partners I had in the previous 6 months before infection, although I didn't find all of them. I feel that i've done my job. I see many of them that "suddenly" got recently HIV+ in the last 2 months, and I know I didn't infect them in the last 6 months, so for most of them I believe they were infected when they fucked me bareback. Am I sueing them? am I angry at them? Am I warning the community that they are HIV+ even though their profile shows HIV negative or doesn't say anything about their status? Hell no. But I try to make them feel more responsible, tell their status, and most importantly, seek medical help, because most of them are not even seeing a doctor and getting their blood work done. I hope that once they see a doctor, get an idea of what's in it for them, then they become more responsible. Then again, some will decide that either they don't give a shit and whoever gets infected by having sex with them is their problem. It's true in a sense, it was my problem when I decided to have unprotected sex. The "it takes two to tango" line is bullshit most of the time.

You can sue, but to get the burden of proof I wish you luck.

next, you are entirely responsible for your situation, and it possible that you could have infected other people prior to your knowledge of your status. Blaming people who don't know is blaming yourself during that period. I applaud you that you will not anyone at risk now that you know that you are HIV, not every positive person is good that way.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,882
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2007, 12:05:54 AM »
I mean we had a conversation about this and he lied possibly infecting me.

"possibly" is the key word here... in fact you do not know for certain at all

In fact, according to your first post in this thread you should have written:

I mean we had a conversation about this and he possibly lied possibly infecting me.

"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,198
  • Ninja Please
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2007, 12:38:00 AM »
Next,

The reason you feel defensive is because you're unable to accept the unpalatable truth. You're responsible for your HIV infection.

At some point you consented to have unprotected sex and now you've copped a dose of the bum-flu. This is all down to you, nobody else. The trick is to learn to accept that.

MtD

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2007, 12:41:49 AM »
Personally, I take it as there is 3 sides to a story, yours, his, and the truth. You say you think he is the one who infected you but really has no way to prove it when you were out raw dawging some other dude(s). If I am wrong on this point please correct me for I am a lil high. You are saying he was not right by not disclosing but in the same token how responsible were you? You admitted to raw dawging on a few occassions.

And let's just say for the sake of saying that it was the dude you think, well, let me try to defend him to a point too. Some here may see where I am going with this and some may not. But disclosing is not an easy thing to do. Yes, it is the right thing to do but not always easy. I can't speak for other cultures but in the black community it is taboo. You, being a black man should know this as well even though I am not aware of how it is in the gay black circles. I personally have been shunned when trying to disclose and it wasn't even in a sexual type of way. And I am striaght.

Not sure what type of response you were looking for when you posted this but you did ask for advice. You can either follow it or choose to ignore it. What you should be focused on is YOU and how you choose to deal with this virus now that you have it. And before I forget, Welcome to the Forums..... ;)
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline Jeffreyj

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,403
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2007, 04:29:28 AM »
I agree with Matty on this one.
The sooner you take responsibility for your infection, the better off you will be.
The rest of your rant is a bunch of bullshit really. I mean, what does it all matter?
Your positive. That's what matters, and you must deal with it. Spend time on keeping yourself healthy. You will get more out of that, then blaming blah blah blah.
Best of luck.
Positive since 1985

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,761
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2007, 04:35:04 AM »
Wow : )

Thanks for the feedback all. Okay, never once did I say I am not responsible for my actions. Mr Milker (who's posts I always enjoy reading) is right in saying I am responsible, along with the others who have taken this stance. I have never ever said this wasn't my fault, I have never claimed innocence.

I know that it is not beyond a shadow of a doubt that partner A(jan) infected me. I do believe it was him and what I am looking for is knowledge that he knew he was positive. Why? because if he knew, he lied, and if he lied, that is a morally detestable. This is my problem, more so than acquiring the disease. Would anyone here lie to the person they were having sex with if they were asked if they had any STDs? Especially if the STD were HIV? Disclosure is not completely necessary, but the common courtesy of donning a condom would be a minimum consideration.

My crucial point in this, is whether this was an omission of truth. When we spoke about our conditions, and he said no, I have no STDs (and go with me here for a moment and hold back the vilification) and he knew he had a STD this prevented me from making an informed decision. Even if I were slutting it up all throughout town (because my sexual improprieties are not in question here) it does not make it okay for me to have HIV-being a slut and being a virgin are not qualifying factors.

Seeing as how I have had anal sex a total of 5 times this year (4 times in jan and 1 in april) pretty much narrows the possibility down to two individuals, and if one of them lied about their status they shouldn't get away with it. If I didn't ask, shame on me. I'd chalk it up as anonymous sex and sleep in the bed I've made. I have a problem knowing that I may have been lied to and subsequently infected. I also have a problem knowing that other people are being infected by a person who is actively lying about their status. If I am wrong, I will apologize and make amends. After all, I haven't run to his family, friends or job and spray painted the news on the walls. I'm not an ass.

Before we got together he told me he had a noncommunicable disease that was not an STD  that would leave him dead within 2 years cause he fucked up his med routine. He likened this to fungal infection of sorts and said his last partner had left him because of this. What does this sound like to you? Are the parallels astonishing or am I reading to deeply into this. 8 months later I wind up HIV positive. If I did catch this from him there is a small chance I could have unknowingly infected another person (who I have contacted).

Once again, I'd like to thank everyone for posting an opinion. This forum is encouraging great dialogue and giving me perspectives I would not have considered. Unfortunately, people do lie, and some are in denial. Because I am not 100 percent sure of the person who infected me, should I truly stop looking for them? When the test results come back, will it put my mind to rest? When I think about the night we had the conversation and he looked me in the eye while we being all pseudo romantic and he glibly told me he had no diseases mere moments before our sex I can't help but think now he was lying. In his left hand was the discarded condom that could have prevented all of this. Yes, I still would have had sex with him, but we would have used protection.

Lastly, as far as the risky, less likely of a chance, etc comments that I have made, I understand that abstinence is the only way to prevent sexual HIV transmission, everything else is varying shades of gray. Please do not focus on that, I can be explicit and say, yes we had unprotected anal sex (high risk) and I was the receptive partner. I have not problem with giving you information, just don't vilify me because I do not want to take 100% of the blame for being infected IF I was lied to.

Based on all the responses I have gotten, am I too assume that people who knowingly infect others - and lie about it, should not be held responsible? Let's make that the next question. Factor out dude number 2, and lets just say that there was only one guy, who lied, and subsequently infected me, would the scenario change? Hope everyone is having a great weekend and sorry about all they typos-- this shit is on typeover mode : )
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,198
  • Ninja Please
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2007, 04:52:44 AM »
Wow : )

Thanks for the feedback all. Okay, never once did I say I am not responsible for my actions. Mr Milker (who's posts I always enjoy reading) is right in saying I am responsible, along with the others who have taken this stance. I have never ever said this wasn't my fault, I have never claimed innocence.

I know that it is not beyond a shadow of a doubt that partner A(jan) infected me. I do believe it was him and what I am looking for is knowledge that he knew he was positive. Why? because if he knew, he lied, and if he lied, that is a morally detestable. This is my problem, more so than acquiring the disease. Would anyone here lie to the person they were having sex with if they were asked if they had any STDs? Especially if the STD were HIV? Disclosure is not completely necessary, but the common courtesy of donning a condom would be a minimum consideration.

My crucial point in this, is whether this was an omission of truth. When we spoke about our conditions, and he said no, I have no STDs (and go with me here for a moment and hold back the vilification) and he knew he had a STD this prevented me from making an informed decision. Even if I were slutting it up all throughout town (because my sexual improprieties are not in question here) it does not make it okay for me to have HIV-being a slut and being a virgin are not qualifying factors.

Seeing as how I have had anal sex a total of 5 times this year (4 times in jan and 1 in april) pretty much narrows the possibility down to two individuals, and if one of them lied about their status they shouldn't get away with it. If I didn't ask, shame on me. I'd chalk it up as anonymous sex and sleep in the bed I've made. I have a problem knowing that I may have been lied to and subsequently infected. I also have a problem knowing that other people are being infected by a person who is actively lying about their status. If I am wrong, I will apologize and make amends. After all, I haven't run to his family, friends or job and spray painted the news on the walls. I'm not an ass.

Before we got together he told me he had a noncommunicable disease that was not an STD  that would leave him dead within 2 years cause he fucked up his med routine. He likened this to fungal infection of sorts and said his last partner had left him because of this. What does this sound like to you? Are the parallels astonishing or am I reading to deeply into this. 8 months later I wind up HIV positive. If I did catch this from him there is a small chance I could have unknowingly infected another person (who I have contacted).

Once again, I'd like to thank everyone for posting an opinion. This forum is encouraging great dialogue and giving me perspectives I would not have considered. Unfortunately, people do lie, and some are in denial. Because I am not 100 percent sure of the person who infected me, should I truly stop looking for them? When the test results come back, will it put my mind to rest? When I think about the night we had the conversation and he looked me in the eye while we being all pseudo romantic and he glibly told me he had no diseases mere moments before our sex I can't help but think now he was lying. In his left hand was the discarded condom that could have prevented all of this. Yes, I still would have had sex with him, but we would have used protection.

Lastly, as far as the risky, less likely of a chance, etc comments that I have made, I understand that abstinence is the only way to prevent sexual HIV transmission, everything else is varying shades of gray. Please do not focus on that, I can be explicit and say, yes we had unprotected anal sex (high risk) and I was the receptive partner. I have not problem with giving you information, just don't vilify me because I do not want to take 100% of the blame for being infected IF I was lied to.

Based on all the responses I have gotten, am I too assume that people who knowingly infect others - and lie about it, should not be held responsible? Let's make that the next question. Factor out dude number 2, and lets just say that there was only one guy, who lied, and subsequently infected me, would the scenario change? Hope everyone is having a great weekend and sorry about all they typos-- this shit is on typeover mode : )


Look Kiddo, you don't have to retype the whole sorry tale. We can smell what you're cooking and we've smelt it many times before.

Do you think you're the first newly diagnosed type to want to find a scapegoat?

For the sake of argument, let's assume this guy did infect you.

The bottom line is (and you're not going to like it) is that it doesn't matter that he lied to you. You didn't have to let him give a you an unprotected tusk up the runter. Had you insisted he use a condom or just refused to let him cornhole you then you wouldn't be in this situation.

But you didn't insist. You consented to unprotected sex and thus you are wholly responsible for the predicament you now find yourself in.

Can you detect the theme here? You're a grown man who made his own decisions. The alleged moral reprehensibility of this other chap is neither here nor there. He may be a bastard, but you're the one who let him fuck you.

It's a tough old world, babe.

Now you can spend your time transferring your anger at yourself onto him, but ultimately it will be time wasted. There are much healthier things you could choose to do such as, oh I dunno, focusing on living a positive, healthy life.

But it seems that wise decisions are a way off for you yet.

Best regards,

MtD

Offline fearless

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,191
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2007, 05:12:10 AM »
hey matey,

What you are going through is a fairly natural response to a recent diagnosis. But, I'd have to agree with the others. You can let it eat you up inside, but the bottom line is you will never really know. Either guy could have infected, either could have known, and maybe they didn't. In the end, it really doesn't matter as no matter what happened you are now positive. To stress and dwell on the who, where, when, how will only affect your immune system and health. Don't let it consume your life.

Sit down, take some time, and truly forgive yourself for your part in this. Then, let it go. Focus on yourself and what you need to do from here on in. Down the track you will see what the good folk here are saying.

Peace.

Steve
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline next2u

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  • Posts: 1,761
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2007, 05:26:28 AM »
Alright, fine. geesh, you don't have to be so callous about the whole affair. I was simply looking for another avenue of restitution, something to help support the next step of this so I could move on. It's strange, everyone so far has been against the idea because I consented to sex with him. I know I keep likening this to some sort of business transaction where one party was deceived by another party in the selling of some faulty good or service. In some facets of law, the burdern of guilt is on the selling party rather than the receiving party. I was hoping it would be the same, or similar, here.

Oh well, I will focus my energy elsewhere.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 05:28:19 AM by next2u »
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline Cliff

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Re: Restitution?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2007, 06:09:04 AM »
Hi Next,

I agree with Lil Steve, your feelings about this is normal.  And I believe that you're probably right that he knows more than he's telling you.  But unfortunately it doesn't change anything and because you can never be 100% sure, you will always want to know why, how, when, where in terms of your transmission.  I was there 4 years ago.  While I knew I became positive from my bf, in the back of my mind I always questioned whether or not he knew or should have known his status and whether or not he lied in our discussions on safer sex/STD/HIV testing.  I also questioned how he became positive (his estimate of who the person was, didn't sit well with me).  I had a lot of anger over the situation and was unable to completely come to terms with my diagnosis because of it.

I don't necessarily see it as a blame game (maybe it is partially).  Ultimately for me, it was about knowledge.  I believed that having that knowledge would help me understand why THIS happened.  Cause at the time, I only had bits and pieces of the information and it didn't all fit neatly in a puzzle.  The problem is, I had no way of knowing whether having that information/knowledge would have made things any easier for me.  It may have only begged more questions.  And caused more anger and resentment in me.  Neither of which are healthy or helpful.

I'm not sure how much refocusing your energy will resolve this issue, in the near future.  It will always be there in the back of your mind.  But hopefully in time, you'll learn to move on and accept that sometimes we never get the complete story in life.  Life just isn't fair in that way.  It took me 3 years to get to that point. 

Hopefully, you'll find a shorter route.

Cliff

P.S.- Welcome to the forums.

Offline megasept

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  • Steven here...
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2007, 07:35:15 AM »
Alright, fine. geesh, you don't have to be so callous about the whole affair. I was simply looking for another avenue of restitution...
Oh well, I will focus my energy elsewhere.

Hi. Let me agree with you on one matter; it is immoral to lie about HIV with a sex partner or potential sex partner.

"Callous?" I didn't find any of the replies callous. There is a personal story with each of us here, so we are "invested" in the views we express. All of us we were infected and now we are POZ.

Life and suffering, even betrayals, are not about restitution! Legal remedy? Like our country is just one lawsuit away from Nirvana.[/i] If you believe in Heaven (or even Hell for your enemies), or Karma, then there's your restitution. I try not to harm others. I worry about my own soul.  

You are an educated man. You ignored your education when you were negligent towards your own health. You insult your intelligence when you are shocked that some man might lie to you to get into your pants. You and your partner talked your way into having unsafe sex (usually it's wine or beer, not words that do the trick) . Even if he's a liar, you were playing a game with yourself. rationalizing lifting your own prohibitions so that you could enjoy the sex you really wanted the way you wanted it. So not only does it take "two to tango", but your "gave yourself (not your phrase)" HIV as much as he did. I recently learned I have markers for HEP A, B, and C in my blood (HEP B I have known about for nearly 30 years). Who should I sue? Who should I thank (I gained some degree of immunity)? What a naughty boy I've been.

If you wish to look backward why not do it for a productive reason, like informally and thoughtfully counseling younger or "new" gay men so that they might avoid joining our ranks? That would be a real contribution, socially, and individually. Teach them avoiding HIV is  NOT ABOUT ASKING ABOUT YOUR POTENTIAL PARTNER'S "STATUS", but what you do sexually and how you do it. When you're ready to teach this painful lesson to your gay brothers, you'll feel better about your own journey. Instead of invoking business contract law analogies, why not take responsibility for your own behavior? Consenting Bunnies. No rape. Wouldn't it be silly to meet with some Assistant DA about prosecuting all the lying scumbags you've allowed in you without a condom? Please do begin to "focus your energy elsewhere" on your health, but especially on every other aspect with your life. Live well!

 8)  -megasept
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 08:56:27 AM by megasept »

Offline BT65

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Re: Restitution?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2007, 07:55:05 AM »
Hello dear, welcome to the jungle. ;)

I suppose it would be easier to blame someone else for our situation, instead of looking at ourselves.  Acceptance is a hard one to swallow sometimes.  But, in the end, unless you were forcibly raped (and you weren't, you said you guys were fucking like bunnies), the burden lies with you.  If you let him poke you without a condom, your infection is your responsibility.  I know it's horrible when other people knowingly infect other people, but can you really expect some slut you're going to take a roll in the hay with to tell the truth?  When I was slutting around, no one ever told me they had ________ (fill in the blank).  I've had more than my share of STDs other than the HIV I now have, and I don't blame anyone other than myself. 

I hope you're doing better with this.  Sometimes it takes awhile for us to accept responsibility for our own lives and outcomes.  Just give yourself time and, like others have said, put your energy into your own well-being.  Write him a letter or something expressing your true feelings, anger, and throw it out.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline DanielMark

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  • Posts: 1,475
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2007, 08:43:16 AM »
That's a good suggestion, Betty.

It’s true that some lessons are harder to learn than others but so long as we learn from our mistakes there is nothing lost.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline next2u

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Re: Restitution?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2007, 11:53:41 AM »
Wow, maybe I am completely missing the point. Well, just off the point, slightly to the left : )

I had never thought that someone would lie about their status to get into someones pants (until about 2 days ago). It is still befuddling, but with the help of everyone on here I am putting the pieces together and moving on with my life. It kills me to know I practiced relatively safe sex (outside of this year, their were 2 brief -- read 2 pokes, 1 stroke, now put the condom on) incidents before. This year was my first full out bareback sexual encounter and I know I did it for the wrong reasons.

Dude just came along when I was vulnerable. I needed someone to trust me and I was feed up with dating unsuccessfully - it has been over 10 years since I've had a boyfriend and I was hoping that this would have be something special (just not in this way). I know, the logic is fucked up, but I do vacillate emotionally over stupid shit like this and I wanted to believe him. I was also curious to see what it would it be like. So aside from being an intelligent person who did slip up, I am also an emotional person who wanted to connect and trust someone, and have someone trust me, in the most fucked up way that someone could go about it. We were also sober every time (all four of them). This is a hard lesson learned, thank you everyone for your support.

 
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline komnaes

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Re: Restitution?
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2007, 12:16:44 PM »
Hey Next

We all slip and I suspect many of us did slip the the same way, or otherwise we wouldn't be exchanging messages here. We should know better that being educated and rational on most things doesn't mean one cannot get emotional on others, so the important thing, at least for me now, is to find out what are those emotion issues that were causing me, us, to take risk.

Just last friday I talked the ears off my counselor and I found that having an experienced professional who can at least help me to break down my problems into smaller ones is extremely helpful. Suddenly some closed doors were opened.

Please take care

Shaun

(who's counting his blessings for having some many friends to lean on)
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline cocoboogie

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Re: Restitution?
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2007, 12:42:25 PM »
next,

I understand how you feel.  You felt being open and honest with someone meant they would be just as open and honest with you.

I am a very trusting person, also.  Unfortunately, reality states not everyone is as forth coming with the truth.  Also, your partner (dude) made have felt you would have rejected him had he told the truth or been in denial.

As a mature adult, you made the decision to put your health at risk based on trusting the words of someone you barely knew.  The consequence of that decision has led to a positive diagnosis.

Exposing him as the evil man that misled you and took away your innocence wont change or improve your health situation,

Right now, focus on you and your healthcare.  Once you start thinking about yourself, you will move on from trying to find someone to blame.

Hope this helps.  Your feelings are natural and understandable.  But moving on with your life will make you happier.

Take Care
C J
Date    CD4  VL
11/07  20     56,000 started chemo for KS
4/08    12     60,000 started Kaletra and Truvada
5/08    14     820
6/08    19     Undetectable stopped chemo
7/08   149    Undetectable  
8/09   247    undetectable
6/10   498    undetectable
1/11   408    undetectable
4/11   402    undetectable  
5/11   511    undetectable
11/11  599   undetectable
7/12    439   undetectable
3/13     479 undectectable
9/13 645  undectectable

Offline Queen Tokelove

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  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2007, 01:09:16 PM »
Next,

Come here man and let me lay hands on you so you can get some of my positive vibes!!!!  ;D  Just trying to make you smile a bit. I understand how you feel also maybe my prior post did not indicate that. I can relate to you too because an ex of mine knew he was poz and infected me. How did I find out? When ex went to jail, a nurse there knew a co-worker of mine and my ex. The nurse told  my co-worker whom I was fooling around with. And that is NOT suppose to happen. I confronted my ex about it and he admitted he was. Sure, I was pissed about it but never wanted to take it any further because I felt it was my fault because even though we were together for 5 years, I should've made sure he wore a condom. My thinking was, he's my bf and we've been together a long time, he wouldn't give me nothing. I even wanted to continue our relationship but he decided he wanted to be with the one who infected him, a crackhead, go figure.

This statement by cocoboogie stuck with me too: "Also, your partner (dude) made have felt you would have rejected him had he told the truth". When I think about it,it sticks with me because I can relate to it. It's great that people can be open and disclose but some including myself, disclosure is not an easy thing. Not that I haven't tried, I tried and the results were not pretty. Or when you disclose to members of your family and they use your status against you  by telling anyone and everyone. Not giving you the choice to disclose at all but also adding their own spite to it. I know it may sound like I am defending the dude who you think infected you but am just saying everyone has a story. Some may not disclose and just wish to spread it but then there are others who don't disclose for other reasons. I guess that's what I am trying to say. I am not saying it is right but just trying to get you to see it from another angle......
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline AlanBama

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  • Alabama: the 'other' 3rd World Country!
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2007, 08:34:27 PM »
Hi Next,

I understand your feelings, but I have to agree with Matty here....

If you are going to play the blame game, blame yourself, because ultimately the responsibility was yours.   Is he an evil person if he is going around infecting people?  Certainly.   But that's neither here nor there in your situation....

I hope you are able to let it go, accept your role in it all, and move forward.

hugs, 

Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Lisa

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    • http://www.myspace.com/lisanowak58
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2007, 09:54:30 PM »
I understand how you feel. I was infected by my boyfriend. He was apparently having an entirely different life on the down low.  He was forced to tell me by his doc while hospitalized for something else.
I too went through the rage, anger, sorrow, fear,...and a whole lot more. It was all a really hard pill to swallow, but I eventually decided that I needed to take care of me.(having three kids to raise alone)
One of the best basic advice I received here was to take care of myself, and that stress is one of the primary factors that influence my disease.
I have cut out negative people who only bitch and complain constantly. I have had to teach myself how to not let outside influences sneak into my experiences. I have found unlimited love, and acceptance here. These people are the cream of the crop as far as I'm concerned. If they offer you alternative ideas, it is not done in any other spirit other than one of gentle prodding, in order to help you understand that thoughts of revenge, or the enforcement of restitution will do you no service. Do not let him hold any power over you whatsoever.
Y'know, about three days ago my on left to go to the store, and returned after having only been gone for a minute. He came breezing into the house with such a look n his face.
He saw the man who infected me just up the street. He told me he had seen him, and wanted to know if I wanted him to kick(the boyfriend)his ass. He had a hard time accepting it when I  told him no.
After 21 years, of having this disease, I have accepted it and I refuse to allow ANY other person have any kind of power over me. It's just not worth it.
I know you are new in your walk with this disease, and you are probably going to have a pretty rough go of it for a while.
That is why we are here. I hope you will find this community as loving, and accepting as I have.

No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,761
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2007, 10:17:58 PM »
Thank you all again. Queen, Lisa, your stories are quiet moving and make me feel not so alone. Queen, I understand what you are saying and know you are not defending him. Lisa, right on, thanks for the advice. It seems that all of my neg friends and family agree with me pursuing this. I guess they are as angry as me for the incident and they hoped it could be reconciled in some way. I hope that he has not infected another person, I do feel somewhat guilty knowing that he is capable of this and not intervening. I have always been a proactive person and try to help when I can. Walking away to help myself may help me, and I will walk away for now. Also, I will seek counseling to help me sort through these issues.

In all honesty, I have been in and out of counseling and I think the best advice would come from the folks here. I know the argument (trained professional, blah blah blah) but others with similar experiences often provide great guidance. Hey, everyone take care and have a good one. I am looking forward to reading all of your posts and participating in your lives through our forums :)
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline Lisa

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    • http://www.myspace.com/lisanowak58
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2007, 10:27:27 PM »
Good for you sweetness.
NEVER GIVE YOUR POWER TO ANOTHER PERSON!
Wish I could just give you a gigantic hug, and a big old sloppy AIDS infected kiss, and tell you that it is going to be OK.  :)
Stick around love, this is the best place in the world in my eyes.   :-*   :-*
Whoopsie.......and welcome to AIDSMEDS.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,302
  • His name is Carl.
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2007, 02:37:35 AM »
next,

for what it is worth, this has been discussed here before:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=1177.0


like others have said, i don't think will prove to be a satisfying route for you in the long run.

tim
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Tempeboy

  • Member
  • Posts: 356
  • Like St Francis of Assisi I am wedded to Poverty
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2007, 02:50:45 AM »
Hey next,

This can be a difficult time, your head can be full of lots of stuff like

ANGER, BLAME, GUILT, FEAR, SADNESS, GRIEF, LOSS, SHAME, HATE - just to name a few. 

If your experience is anything like many of ours one day you will come to a place of ACCEPTANCE.

This is a pretty cool place to be when you have HIV.

So take it easy and take care.

A fwend.

xx

cool link - http://www.poz.com/archive/2005_Aug_321.shtml
Roughly roundabout somewhere in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, Sodomite begat Homosexual out of moral, medical and legal models, bequeathing him Identity, who inbred with Nuclear Family and Industrialism to spawn Homophobia.

Dean Kiley

Offline Paulette

  • Member
  • Posts: 112
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2007, 11:55:46 AM »
wow!
I can tell you from my own personal experience that seeking Restitution civil or criminal is  one hell of a roller coaster ride on top of a ride.  My ex- husband knowingly infected me for 3 years, we even tried to have a child together, but that never happened.  I let the influences of my family fuel my anger/hate at him, which in returned back fired, because i really did love this person and it was hard to deal with knowing that he had done to this to me.  and i let it ruin my marriage, i still carry the burden of being in love with a man that i can no longer be with because i sent him to prison for five years(which he is up for parole now and i wish him the best, but their can never be an us, because there is no trust there) I've now excepted my responsibility in becoming infected, because the fact is that most people don't disclose their status in fear of being rejected(that's what my ex told me anyway) and just because you are honest doesn't always mean that someone else will be. We had the whole discussion about our health and our stats, and i even showed him my results, Should have demanded to see his, but i was in love and so we married. i didn't find out until after my dx: 11/7/2003 that his first wife had died from pcp. and then he had to come clean about his status. i think he was in denial. i guess what I'm getting at that restitution doesn't bring you peace of mind or even make this disease go away.  sometimes i think it would be better if had no one to blame but my self. because lets face it being able to forgive yourself is a lot easier than forgiving others.  don't let the anger get the best of you stay focused on you and your health and happiness.
Best wishes
Paulette
I have HIV; it doesn't me;)

Offline dixieman

  • Member
  • Posts: 889
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2007, 12:23:15 PM »
next2u... everyone has been giving you good advice... but, if you are still in question on this persons motives... Why not turn him over to the Attorney Generals office in your state.... Practicing safe sex is your responsibility... but, if someone knowingly infects another under false representations and your willing to file a claim... through the courts do so... if your partner was previously infected... and knowingly ... everyone whose infected in this country is registered... the government keeps a list... theres a person I am aware of in Montgomery that likes to have sex with others.. then drops the load so to speak that he is hiv+ poz after the fact... unfortunately he's walking a thin line... the attorney general is keeping an eye on him just waiting for him to hang himself... but, this day and age... Everyone who is sexually active needs to think of everyone as  carrying the hiv virus... and play as safe as possible... Its your call!

Offline Jeffreyj

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Re: Restitution?
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2007, 04:34:41 AM »
Next.......
Positive since 1985

Offline next2u

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Re: Restitution?
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2007, 12:51:02 AM »
Wow,

The support has been awesome. Paulette, thank you so much for your story. I am not sure what I will do, I feel utterly betrayed but have not lost my faith. Some days I am consummed with his image, other days I come here just to remember things get better. I know hating him will not resolve this and that I am responsible. Knowing this does not change how I feel, logic has not reconciled the fact that I am HIV positive nor did it step in to intervene.

There are too many emotions surrounding him and it right now. I want him to hurt, but he must be hurting to do what he did. I want him to apologize, but then I wonder if the person who infected him apologized. I want to know his story, but the next moment I don't care, i just wish everything would live my head and stop haunting me. dude wasn't a bad person, so it's kinda hard to hate him. but getting up everyday and realizing everything that i've worked so hard for, that we have all worked so hard for, is not in vain, is an incredible challenge. And i do detest him for this, for lying. but then again, it's my fault, and i am upset at myself than at him. i guess he's just a carrier of the virus, like myself. its funny, cause whenever i applied any epithet to him, i had to apply it to myself 'cause it happened to both of us (except for the lying part). well im doing my part and preventing others from catching it from me.

okay, i am angry. very angry. i just don't want to be sad. when i am angry i feel stronger. when i'm sad, i feel very weak and vulnerable.  i am alone now, i live by myself and my family is far away. i do have a great support group, but most aren't in my immediate area. the ones that are have their own full time lives to lead and do check up on me when they can. i just can't deal with this and be sad. so now, anger is good and hopefully it will transition into closure or something productive. counseling is next on the list (after i graduate, cause lord knows I don't have time now). Once again, thank you everyone. even the abrasive ones who said what i didnt want to hear but needed to know. 
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2007, 04:52:17 AM »
Hi Next,

I'm glad Matty and the others got to you before I did, as I would certainly have said the same thing.  I suspect that you think that most of us have been through these feelings, but in that, you would be wrong.  You see, many of us here have been living with this bug and infection for over 20 years, and back then, most of us just assumed that somewhere along the line, we would be infected, because everyone was eventually going to get it and die.  That being said, your internal struggle isn't unusual for this day and time, so you certainly are not alone. 

I have observed here that many of the women were either lied to by their husbands or boyfriends of many years, so the level of discomfort and anger are very much higher than we in the Gay community experience during our initial time with this infection.  You happen to have loved, and trusted, and for that, I commend you.  Somewhere along the line, you have stated that "love" and "commitment" meant more to you than the danger of being infected, and you trusted this/these men to return your trust.  If I have learned anything in this fucked up world is that men are pigs, and lie like a rug to get the satisfaction that they are out to get from anyone.  My sweetie says that a man with a stiff dick will fuck a snake if someone will hold the head still for them.  This unfortunately is a rude fact of life when dealing with generalizations, but in your particular case, you trusted a man who either possibly lied to you, or full out told you a blatant lie. 

What difference will it make to you when you veiw your future life with this bug?  None!  I don't have a clue if you know how the legal system works in these United States, but you are at an intersection in this new path, one that most of us face at some time in the early part.  I say turn away, and move on.  Litigation will completely overwhelm you and can really cause your immune system to do a dump on you very early when you fill yourself with all the details of litigating something like this.  There is the mistrust of a Gay man, there is the struggle of finding enough FACTS to actually take this to court, and in the end, the judge usually says in their summation that you as a grown and intelligent man are at least 50% responsible for allowing entrance.

I say take what you have learned about this experience and claim your power over you own body and never again let anything like this come into your life.  You hate the fact that you let your guard down, and you hate this/these persons.  I accept that, now it is time to build a more positive future, and start to plan out just how you are going to live the rest of your life with this little microscopic viral protein on board.  It will change your life, it will change the way you make plans, it will dominate your psyche for months, it will cause you to re-evaluate just about everything in your sphere; so don't waste anymore time diddling with the past and start to reshape the way you think about this whole thing, because in the end it really matters not about infection. 

Restitution?  Possible, but I say why!  It usually just isn't worth the pain and suffering you will place on your mind, body and spirit.  The time can be so much more well spent trying to create a life that is uplifting, positive and creative for your new pathway on this planet.

Just my thoughts.

Love,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline mjmel

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,069
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2007, 10:13:28 AM »
next2u, I sure do respect your struggle to understand what people have conveyed to you here. I can see by your responses that you are getting a handle on this and are absorbing these replies you have received. I am glad for you. Your ability to let go of the anger is important. It makes me want to know you more and listen when you have something to say. Respect is what you get for taking ownership of responsibilities that are yours alone.

You rock!, Moffie65. Wisdom for the ages.

 :)
Mike

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,761
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2007, 05:31:42 PM »
taking responsibilities for my actions ehh? well the guy who infected me called this morning to see how i was doing (i called him the day i found out, ironically it was his birthday). we had a long and strange conversation. i think tense would be the word. this gave me a little bit more sanity. i was able to tell him how i felt and see how he felt. he isn't having unprotected sex with anymore of his partners and is scared also. hearing the regret and shame in his voice was enough to make me not upset and we will talk again in the future.

and no, he did not apologize and i didn't ask him to. everyone who has responded to this post wanted me to walk away with a bit of responsibility and ownership for my actions. i upped it one and tried to make sure he would be responsible for his actions also. and a lil insecure and shitty part of me did miss him. that part will sacrificed to a more honerable and sane self.

mtd - there was no finger wagging. this are only my emotions now. as with everything else, i may be utterly pissed again in a couple of hours.
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 9,841
  • Vegas baby!
Re: Restitution?
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2007, 07:22:34 PM »
Next2you:

Anger is always a secondary emotion.  There is something underneath that anger.  In one of your previous posts, you mentioned being sad, and how you didn't like to feel that way.  Why not?  That's how you need to feel in order to get over this.  When all you feel is anger, you're blocking emotions from going through your body because your body is too busy trying to process the anger.  It's alright to cry and to feel sad.  Sad that you're infected, sad that you couldn't trust him, whatever. 

I'm glad you guys talked and that he seemed somewhat regretful.  You don't have to have him apologize in order to move on.  You can do that, if you get in touch with your real feelings.  Just my two cents.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

 


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