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Author Topic: Why no Chinese Boycott?  (Read 3287 times)

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Offline alisenjafi

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Why no Chinese Boycott?
« on: September 27, 2007, 09:00:04 AM »
Considering that China has been in Tibet for over 50 years-
That China' s human rights record  today is as dismal as it was 50 years ago-
that China is supplying other anti American reigmes with weapons-
that China is constantly hacking into America's computer systems-
that there exist Chinese sweatshops with child labor-
that China shuts down websites and newspapers that don't tout the party line-
that most things made in China are now being recalled-
China's constant voting against the US at the UN

you would think everyone in America would never buy one Chinese product- instead we owe them the next 50 years in earnings!


modified to add "made in China
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
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Online Dachshund

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2007, 09:21:15 AM »
you would think everyone in America would never buy one Chinese product- instead we owe them the next 50 years in earnings!




question answered...and how would I ever afford a flat screen?

Offline mjmel

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2007, 09:42:04 AM »
Usual BS to me, alisenjafi.

The complete lack of accountibility for China's blatant violations is compounding the offenses to the American public.
Reeks of more corportate politics for corportate well-being only--certainly no regard for the safety of the consumers.


The polictician who supposedly went after them (China) sure changed his tune quickly. I believe he is relieved not to ruffle the feathers of those who have entered into corporate deals worth billions and billions. Ex-corporate bosses roosted in such high places. Think: Cabinet appointees.

Americans should be outraged; they are asleep at the wheel. There should be outcry; there is no sign of integrity dashed, of intelligence.
Well, it sure does seems like it, doesn't it. Perhaps they are just so disgusted with it all and waiting for the next elections to have their say.

Avoid "made in China" purchases. There are consumer choices to make.   
I seek items 'made in USA' these days, as well. It's so rare, anymore.
The other day I was at Wally World looking for new socks. I bought the ones 'made in Turkey' ...purposely.
xxx,
Mike

« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 10:53:54 AM by mjmel »

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2007, 11:12:30 AM »
Usual BS to me, alisenjafi.

The complete lack of accountibility for China's blatant violations is compounding the offenses to the American public.
Reeks of more corportate politics for corportate well-being only--certainly no regard for the safety of the consumers.





Just to add :


http://www.buyhard.fsnet.co.uk/introduction.htm


Haven't had a good ole boycott in years !



Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

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 Current % is at 13% 

  
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Offline alisenjafi

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2007, 11:42:20 AM »
While I understand that cheap tv sets supersedes human rights, the fact that with the Chinese gov't 's blessing Chinese hackers have gotten into our defence system, are trying to get into our systems to shut down electrical grids as well as hack into other systems that run our country, I don't understand how it is that politicians like Bush aren't saying anything.  After all it is his duty to protect this country!

Also what good is a plasma tv if it blows up when you change the channel- Chinese goods are shoddy because the workers who make them are working ungodly hours, some people would like to pay more for quality.  I surmise alot of this came out of the Euro- American trade wars.

Gee where are the so called christians on this?  Maybe if they spend have the amount of hate of gays on abusive human rights... oh  yeah, the bible does condone slavery!
Johnny
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2007, 11:49:13 AM »
A boycott?  The elite class in the US long ago decided that doing business with China is the price we pay for globalism, and the elite class benefits greatly from that.  Consequently the Little Peopleô are placated on several fronts with cheap products.  If you expect Bush, as a representative of this same elite class, to do anything about this situation you're not living in reality.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Teresa

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2007, 11:50:23 AM »
Why does a company like Boeing send America workers to China so they can train the Chinese people there to build parts that go on the Boeing planes, which takes jobs away from us?

So China will buy more Boeing planes.

When I worked for Boeing they were asking for volunteers to go to China for 6 months to train the workers over there. Knew several people that had been to China and even though the money was good they said they would never go back. A section of the plane that I worked on was one that China was also building. When we would get a China unit there would be alot of rework that had to be done. Boeing would set those units aside and wait till a plane that was for China to come down the line and then use it on the their own plane.

I bet none of those Chinese workers that worked on the same bulkhead I did got laid off like I did after 9/11.

Teresa
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 11:52:18 AM by Teresa »
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Offline alisenjafi

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2007, 12:39:42 PM »
If you expect Bush, as a representative of this same elite class, to do anything about this situation you're not living in reality.

I totally see why people who are making money out of selling America out would not want to kill the goose, but you are missing my other point, China is blatantly going into our defense systems, our electrical grids and most likely the biggest identity thefts against Americans- this is basically a war, much like attacking an embassy or country- as well as the fact China supplies countries like Iran and Myanmar,and Zimbabwe with weapons (not that America is better). 
It isn't me not living in reality, but parents who let their kids use dangerous products, owners who feed tainted pet food, and the American who are propping up this regime, either by supporting Chinese goods (like the "Support Our Troops" ribbons) or elect officials who say nothing.   I have yet to hear on any debate from either party about this- then again I am always way ahead of the curve.

The reason China wanted those people from Boeing is so that China won't have to rely on American products.  They will build inferior Chinese planes, and if a few fall out of the sky so what- there are so many more millions of Chinese.

Btw China is the biggest maker of tainted bogus meds that is flooding the world market at a cost to Americans.


Don't feed the Dragon!
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2007, 01:05:27 PM »
alisenjafi, I've read the allegations about China haxx0ring out defense systems, but as far as I know there's been no official confirmation. I would not be surprised to learn that, if this was true, the US routinely does the same thing.

Yes, as I said:  EVERYBODY DOES IT

edit:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003886833_chinahack16.html

Quote
China is hardly the only state conducting cyberespionage. "Everybody is hacking everybody," says Johannes Ullrich, an expert with the SANS Technology Institute, pointing to Israeli hacks against the U.S., and French hacks against European Union partners. But aspects of the Chinese approach worry him. "The part I am most afraid of is staging probes inside key industries. It's almost like sleeper cells."

If one looks at it positively, such probing by someone else actually can assist us in beefing up our obviously lax security precautions.

I'm very, very wary of one-sided hyped up political bullshit especially after the current hyped up BS that led us into our present national war fiasco.  I don't think it's a stretch to extend this healthy skepticism elsewhere.

I think with this particular example you are over-reacting and perhaps using it as an excuse for other things.  Dunno.

And no, it's not "basically a war" in my view.  It's simply what nation states do, and have always done.  Spying.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2007, 01:21:25 PM »
Probing? Did somebody say probing? Could be fun!



But seriously, I've been boycotting Chinese manufactured goods for ages now, to the best of my ability. Sometimes you don't find out that certain components are Chinese made until you get your purchase home and remove the packaging and read through the destruction booklets and other information. But I do my best!

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2007, 01:48:36 PM »
Well frankly I'm a bit torn on this subject.  On one hand I detest forced labor, but on the other hand there's a school of thought that the only way to change China is to do it gradually, and as the middle class there expands which it IS doing, they will demand more political reform (hello... property rights, etc.) and that will eventually help the impoverished peasant class.

When you're dealing with a country of 1.3 billion people I don't think a mass revolution would really be very helpful, so this is an acceptable alternative IMO.  What exactly do you think a boycott is going to REALISTICALLY change?  It may make you feel warm and caring on the inside but I really question how effective it is.

Anyway, like you state it's near impossible to do -- so many things are assembled in components from many countries, and you don't even have often a way of ascertaining what is what.  I avoid shopping at Walmart, so I figure I cut down substantially on Chinese goods.  But I do this more out of a disdain for cheap products that fall apart in a year more than out of some feel-good political ploy.

I don't think you can buy ANY computer stuff that does not come from there.  I know my entire iMac was shipped from Shanghai as I tracked it on FedEx.  I'm sure the same goes for each and every computer that we're all tapping on to join in on some China bashing, so frankly the Politburo laughs at you.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2007, 01:58:33 PM »
I know very well that almost all countries are in the espionage game, but again how many other countries are trying to get into the North East electrical grid?  Again my point is there is enough pie for every one from die hard conservatives to bleeding liberals to boycott Chinese goods.

I just read about another toy recall- and then there was the unfake fur.  My question is why isn't there more noise on this, from tainted toothpaste to pirated dvd's even big business and the pharma mafia is getting hit with spinoffs that must be loosing money for these companies.

Since you lived in NYC  you might appreciate this- the long walkway from the 42nd str 5th ave stop that joins the 7 train to the F train has a load of people selling bogus goods-  and creating a hazard in event of a fire or such-yet the law enforcement goes after kids in Scandinavia.

I guess when China gets to do a knock off of christianity then the religious rite will step up! 
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Ann

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2007, 02:08:23 PM »
I boycott Chinese goods for a variety of reasons, not just political ones. Most of the reasons you've already mentioned - notably the remark about buying products that fall apart almost instantly. I just don't have the cash or patience for such nonsense.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline David_CA

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2007, 04:07:03 PM »
I remember when 'American made' meant quality (not so much in vehicles, IMHO).  The Japanese stuff was for the cheapos.  Then, Japanese was considered 'quality', which I still believe it is (especially in vehicles).  Then we had 'Hecho en Mexico', which was cheap, but still pretty decent (at least all the Mexican-made electronics I had were).  Now, we have 'Made in China', and we all know about that quality.  It's funny to me that American made Japanese cars are still generally as reliable as the ones manufactured in Japan.  Somewhere Taiwan and Korea fit into this, but I don't really remember many things made in either country.  The ex- and I did have an '87 Hyundai - back when nobody even knew where they were made or how to pronounce it - that was an extremely reliable car. So what we're left with, now, is cheap, disposable, poor quality products that end up in landfills after a very short life.  No wonder copper prices have tripled in the past few years.

David
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2007, 04:57:36 PM »
Well, I'm sure Chinese good will get better with time, for the same reason that you described with Japan.  Indeed, immediately post WW2 and for some time it was where only cheap crap came from.  It more a matter of how the business is run and the employees trained.  Apple computers will use quality controls regardless of where it is made, but if you go into Walmart and buy a DVD player by some company you've never heard of because it's $29.99 it's guarantee'd to be a piece of shit.

Korea used to not be very good but LG Electronics is OK now.  They make a lot of cell phones and large flat screened HD televisions.  Most people are not even aware that it's a Korean company.

As far as when Chinese goods will be of a better quality who knows.  Considering where that country was just 20 years ago it's still impressive where they are now economically.  I believe in a purely dollar amount their economy will overtake the US one in 2027 if I recall an article in the Economist I read the other day... of course with 4 times the population that doesn't mean so much, but still.  The 20th century for what was already a very backward country was continual outside interference, civil war, WW2 and then all the Cultural Revolution stuff.

Copper prices have most likely tripled because China is buying all of it to bring their country up to something approaching "normal", just like any raw material out there.  That combined with India.  We're just talking massive populations and two huge economies on steroids.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline fearless

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2007, 09:09:01 PM »
This is sounding like one big xenophobic racist rant, full of half-truths, mistruths and generalisations.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline bear60

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2007, 10:10:18 PM »
yea...well...lets boycott all AMERICAN FIRMS THAT HAVE SENT ALL THEIR PRODUCTION TO CHEAP LABOR, CHINA.
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Offline komnaes

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2007, 12:12:58 AM »
yea...well...lets boycott all AMERICAN FIRMS THAT HAVE SENT ALL THEIR PRODUCTION TO CHEAP LABOR, CHINA.

If you do that my bear dear you would end up back in a lifestyle of the 1880s (which may not be a bad thing).. you maybe able to avoid Chinese-made products but to also boycott US firms that manufacture or source there? ;D
« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 12:14:59 AM by komnaes »
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Offline alisenjafi

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2007, 08:09:04 AM »
This is sounding like one big xenophobic racist rant, full of half-truths, mistruths and generalisations.

Yes the first sign of a racist is looking at the human rights records of a country!
Half truths- so I guess these recalls in America from car tyres to Thomas the Tank engine is a fabrication! As well as the fact that of piracy from China.
xenophobic- I been traveling to foreign countries alone since I was 16, and lived in 3 of them- though I do admit not really wanting to get over the Appalachians.
I could see your point if I said Americans should buy and deal only with Americans but I haven't so can you go point by point and tell me how I am a xenophobic racist making statements  full of half-truths, mistruths and generalisations.[/b
Call me Nicolas Chauvin
"You shut your mouth
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I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2007, 08:16:33 AM »
Oh Jesus Johnny, calm the fuck down.

You're carrying on about how the evil Red Chinese are tapping into America's computer systems (like America isn't hacking into theirs) and you wonder why people don't take it seriously?

Seriously babe, whatever you're taking -- double the dose.

MtD

/edited for a small typo/
« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 05:51:11 PM by matty.the.damned »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2007, 09:54:53 AM »
... or something
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline fearless

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2007, 08:16:20 PM »
Considering that China has been in Tibet for over 50 years-
That China' s human rights record  today is as dismal as it was 50 years ago-
that China is supplying other anti American reigmes with weapons-
that China is constantly hacking into America's computer systems-
that there exist Chinese sweatshops with child labor-
that China shuts down websites and newspapers that don't tout the party line-
that most things made in China are now being recalled-
China's constant voting against the US at the UN

you would think everyone in America would never buy one Chinese product- instead we owe them the next 50 years in earnings!


modified to add "made in China

Johnny,
My comment was really about the overall tone of the thread, and not directed at any one person. I don't disagree that China is a human rights nightmare and has a long way to go on so many fronts. I doubt, however, that a boycott would achieve anything and would be retrograde. Poverty levels in China have fallen dramatically over the last 20 years or so, and the best way to overhaul the government and freedoms is to create a market economy. By creating an aspirational middle class you create the seeds of change. And, I agree we should keep pressuring China to move faster in reforming itself.

But, you did ask me to respond:

Considering that China has been in Tibet for over 50 years- I can't deny that.

that China is supplying other anti American reigmes with weapons- this is probably true. every country has the right to protect itself and for this they need weapons. you have to get them from somewhere.

that China is constantly hacking into America's computer systems- that is the pot calling the kettle black, and I don't mean that offensively, but, please...

that there exist Chinese sweatshops with child labor- true again. but, who are they mostly making products for? huge multinationals, mostly American. Wouldn't it be better to pressure those companies to pay their Chinese workers a fair wage.

that China shuts down websites and newspapers that don't tout the party line- absolutely true.

that most things made in China are now being recalled- this is just blatantly false. this kinda became the main theme of the thread and the one that concerned me most. there have been some disturbing product recalls, but, for instance in the Mattel the issue with the magnets has been recognised by Mattel as being a US design fault. With respect to the lead paint in toys I would have expected that the company had in place an appropriate quality control system. Something like 90% of the worlds toys are made in China, they are not all being recalled and aren't all crappy. Many high quality products are made in China, Philly's iMac, my Siemens mobile phone, why? because the company has in place good quality control. I don't know the situation in the US but Australia has never had a strong local manufacturing sector, most of what we purchase is made overseas, and mostly in China. My Bose iPod docking has components made in China. The largest number of product recalls by the US FDA in 06 (I know this only relates to food and drugs) was for products made in India.

I imagine the situation would be fairly similar in America with regard to Chinese made products, or getting that way, and that you could not avoid buying products made in China if you tried.

Due to the fact that the Chinese economy is booming, poverty levels have fallen. And the bottom line is that consumers and economies world wide receive huge benefits as a result. I truly believe that through engagement and creating the seeds for democracy (a middle class), China will change. Who knows where it will end up, but it will soon be the worlds largest economy, certainly in our lifetimes.

Pressure can and will make it happen more quickly, but I can't see how a boycott would achieve anything.

 :-*



Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2007, 02:44:53 AM »
Johnny,

We have to do all that is possible. I think a lot will be determined on this next election, however the damage has already been done, and now the question is , how can we reverse, or at least balance, this major trade imbalance, going on with China,which has been occurring, for much too long. And if any American that doesn't see it, that person must be totally blind. It's already destroying the American economy, despite what one sees that stock market doing ( whether people want to believe that or not) I've seen the changes in this country, and the drastic loss of quality jobs over the past 30 years plus. The loss of good jobs started,  even earlier than that, and in all honesty, Americans themselves have to take some responsibility in that. So, I am still with you !! If we can prevent planes from smashing into our buildings in the future, than this will/is our next threat. I already consider it our next threat, and it has been, long before four planes were hijacked. We have to continue to pressure our politicians. We are funding the Chinese war chest.

I am not an economist, but there are some things, that are as clear to me as the warts on my ass !!



Take care-------Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline alisenjafi

  • Member
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  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: Why no Chinese Boycott?
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2007, 06:01:11 PM »
This post started out because I received quite a lot of petitions ( from Europe) about China 's role in the Burmese uprisings.
There was no bashing of Chinese people who aren't benefiting from the massive industrialization of the country. 
My question came out simply because we are now, in America, in electoral overdrive.  where everyday there is some new problem with China either with it's products or relating to it's abuses.
The info about the massive pet food recalled from India is erroneous.
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

 


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