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Author Topic: Very sad vaccine research news...  (Read 5288 times)

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Offline Tim Horn

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  • Posts: 799
Very sad vaccine research news...
« on: September 21, 2007, 07:27:06 PM »
The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) made the following announcement earlier today:

Immunizations Are Discontinued in Two HIV Vaccine Trials

This is actually very sad and extremely disappointing news.

Back in February and November 2003, when VaxGen's AIDSvax was found to be a failure, few were terribly shocked, as scientific work conducted while the massive trials were ongoing indicated that a vaccine that sparks an antibody (humoral) response wouldn't likely work. Since then, however, there's been reason to believe that a vaccine that illicits a cellular response to HIV -- the priming of CD4 cells to respond to HIV infection, should it occur -- would be at least somewhat effective. The new preliminary data from two studies exploring a "prime-boost" vaccine by Merck suggest that it, too, is a failure.

No vaccine to date has been able to induce effective humoral or cellular responses to the virus. This is a major setback -- one of the great disappointments in HIV research history.

Tim Horn

Offline Jack85

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Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2007, 09:19:57 PM »
Awww, I am a participant in this research trial, looks like it's over.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 09:21:32 PM by Jack85 »

Offline bimazek

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Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2007, 12:04:27 AM »

Tim it is a very very sad note,

how many other vaccine possibilities are left?  How many others does this take down with it?  There are dozens of different types being tried i saw a list.... give me a little hope guy

but did they say anything about thier theory why it did not work, for example if the disease attacks cd4 and they are they are trying to elicit a immune response in cd4 then reasons why it does not work are, or could be cd4s are tramatized and confused even if not infected by the chemicals and proteins that are flowing and triggering them, perhaps they have a negative inhibitory receptor like my fav.

did they say why they theorize

also  there are so so many other trials, like the russian one with dozens of parts of the virus

also did they mention the fact that the immune system is a system and how in the heck can the poor cd4 cells do their job with getting turned on by a vaccine when the cd8s are all exhaousted and down regulated by...

a yet to be discovered mechanism or protein or something flowing in blood (or it could be just mechanical if the cd8s touch on any other immune cells it causes them to bet turned off)

that turns on the cd8 pd-1 and makes them exhausted...

esp. since this article said... this was a major watershed article in the mouse when they discovered this neg. inhibititory receptor...

  "Importantly these discoveries have huge implications for therapeutic vaccination and T-cell immunotherapy.  Because despite their enormous potential, therapeutic vaccines have had minimal to no success in eliminating chronic viral infections. The main reasons for their failure is the very limited cell population reproduction and growth potential of the exhausted cd8 T cells."

in otherwords when the cd8s are exhaused they do not clone themselves 1000x like they are suppose to...

how can the vaccine do anything but fail, like the system of a complicated thing if one part is not working the whole will not work

did they have any theories, what questions did the other scientists ask after the paper

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=7475.0

from the post...

the scientists treated persistent virally infected mice with anti-PD-1 blocking antibody and monitored T-cell responses and viral control by the mouses own immune system. They found that virus-specific CD8 T-cell responses were enhanced both in number and quality by the anti-PD-1 blockade. The treated mice showed significant increases in the numbers of virus specific CD8 T cells.   And, these T cells  functioned better following anti-PD-1 treatment, and more of the CD8 T cells were capable of producing interferon IFN-gamma and TNF-alpha compared to untreated mice. Two natural molecules that do good things in the immune system to fight off things.  PD-1 blockade resulted in a substantial reduction in virus levels; the treated mice had cleared infectious virus from the blood, spleen and liver, while untreated mice still had high levels of virus in these tissues and died. Also, the anti-PD-1-treated mice that resolved the viral infection remained healthy, and did not exhibit any overt signs of disease.           Importantly these discoveries have huge implications for therapeutic vaccination and T-cell immunotherapy.  Because despite their enormous potential, therapeutic vaccines have had minimal to no success in eliminating chronic viral infections. The main reasons for their failure is the very limited cell population reproduction and growth potential of the exhausted cd8 T cells
     Meaning that even when a vaccine for treatment has been given to a virally infected body in the past and many have been tried, the CD8 T-cells do not proliferate, and increase and divide thousands of times to fight the virus because they have been turned off already by the PD-1 switch.  They have been exhausted by the PD-1.  This is one main reason why vaccines have not been effective for treatment. This provides a powerful new strategy for improving the effectiveness of therapeutic vaccinates against viruses by combining it with anti-PD-1 treatment.
 

« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 12:18:41 AM by bimazek »

Offline bimazek

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Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2007, 12:11:39 AM »

did anyone talk about this or could thier be a relations to this...

'Runaway' Theory Doesn't Explain Slow CD4 Loss
http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/1667_11909.shtml
more here
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12543.0

because if they are trying to get the cd4s to get kickstarted, they just found out that they dont even understand why they fall off so slow in the first place.

did anyone mention cd8s at all or pd-1 at all tim,

respectfully

your mad scientist poster bimazek who has lived for 26 years
with the trauma of lovers, best friends, mentors dying year after
year, making even the thread of life itself to seem a mere
thread of smoke or some kind of cosmic joke (or worse)


Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2007, 12:34:15 AM »
Bimazek,

Your threads about PD-1 have been locked for a reason and yet here you are hi-jacking this thread in your usual fashion. Your incoherent, disjointed and nonsensical ramblings make it difficult for other people to follow the discussion. I think it most selfish of you to abuse the research forum in this way.

This might sound harsh but nobody can kill a thread more quickly than you.

Naturally you will just ignore this because you have absolutely no interest in the views or opinions of anyone other than yourself.

MtD

/edited for a typo/
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 12:38:38 AM by matty.the.damned »

Offline milker

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Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2007, 12:41:48 AM »
The 25% rate of infection is interesting. It says in the study that the people involved were high risk, so i'm not surprised by the numbers. But that makes me think the rate of infection in the world must be at least 10%, which is a seriously huge number.

I'd like to thank the people that participated in this study. I'm sad it didn't work out. It will be interesting to get more medical information on how the body reacted to the injections, it's not very clear as if there was no reaction from the immune system or if the immune system was triggered but then didn't know what to do with it.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjasô

Offline LPinUK

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  • Posts: 58
Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2007, 09:08:43 AM »
I read about this last night, very depressing news, for the developing world especially.

Its a shame this very important thread has been hijacked by such nonsense.

The battle against this disease is far from over.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2007, 11:42:54 AM by LPinUK »
Diagnosed Poz September 2003, Current Regimen Truvada & Sustiva.

Offline J.R.E.

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  • Posts: 7,260
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2007, 01:00:22 PM »

It is discouraging news. The article was in today's St. Petersburg times ;

AIDS vaccine fails; study ends
Merck's experimental vaccine, which tested a new strategy, didn't prevent HIV infection.
Associated Press
Published September 22, 2007



http://www.sptimes.com/2007/09/22/Worldandnation/AIDS_vaccine_fails_st.shtml
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 
TRENTON, N.J. - In a disappointing setback, a promising experimental AIDS vaccine failed to work in a large international test, leading the developer to halt the study.

Merck & Co. said Friday that it is ending enrollment and vaccination of volunteers in the study, which was partly funded by the National Institutes of Health.

It was a high-profile failure in the daunting quest to develop a vaccine to prevent AIDS. Merck's vaccine was the farthest along and was closely watched by experts in the field.

Officials at the New Jersey-based company said that 24 of 741 volunteers who got the vaccine in one segment of the experiment later became infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. In a comparison group of volunteers who got dummy shots, 21 of 762 participants also became infected.

"It's very disappointing news," said Keith Gottesdiener, head of Merck's clinical infectious disease and vaccine research group. "A major effort to develop a vaccine for HIV really did not deliver on the promise."

Michael Zwick, an HIV researcher at Scripps Research Institute, said the vaccine's failure is unfortunate. But he said it's too soon to know if other vaccines using the same strategy would also fail.

"It's par for the course in the HIV field," he said of the Merck result.

The volunteers in the experiment were all free of HIV at the start. But they were at high risk for getting the virus: Most were homosexual men or female sex workers. They were all repeatedly counseled about how to reduce their risk of HIV infections, including use of condoms, according to Merck.

In a statement, the NIH said a data safety monitoring board, reviewing interim results, found the vaccine did not prevent HIV infection. Nor did it limit severity of the disease "in those who become infected with HIV as a result of their own behaviors that exposed them to the virus" - another goal of the study.

Merck's was the first major test of a new strategy to prevent HIV infection. The first wave of attempts to develop a vaccine tried to stimulate antibodies against the virus, but that didn't work.

The new effort - an approach that Gottesdiener said is being tried in most other current research - is aimed at making the body produce more of a crucial immune cell called killer T-cells. The goal is to simultaneously "train" those cells, like an army, to quickly recognize and destroy the AIDS virus when it enters cells in the bloodstream.

Zwick said some researchers still are working on vaccines to neutralize the AIDS virus. He thinks ultimately what's needed is one that combines that approach with a way to stimulate and train killer T-cells.

Merck and the HIV Vaccine Trials Network, an international collaboration of researchers and institutions funded by the NIH, co-sponsored the study. The experiment, called STEP, began in December 2004 and had enrolled 3,000 volunteers in Australia, Brazil, Canada, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, Peru, Puerto Rico and the United States.

[Last modified September 22, 2007, 02:20:56]



Ray

Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 25 mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


Diagnosed positive in 1985,.. In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started on  HAART on October 24th, 2003.

 As of 8/25/14,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline dingowarrior

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  • Posts: 191
Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2007, 09:22:09 AM »
Does this mean any hope for a vaccine,be it therapeutic or preventative is out the window??

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2007, 01:50:31 PM »
No, I don't believe so.  But it's a considerable set back.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline blondbeauty

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  • Posts: 1,784
Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2007, 06:40:31 PM »
Dr. Gatell`s team is developing a vaccine in Barcelona. He talked today about this. According to him this might be because when this vaccine started to be developed it was thought that the genes of the  covering of the virus were the most important to induce an immune response. Now it is known that those are not the most important genes in the virus to be recognized by the immune system. This failure should not be a surprise. In fact it was something predictable with today's knowledge. The target was not properly selected from the beginning. New vaccines are on the way but we will still have to wait for another 5 years.
http://www.lavanguardia.es/lv24h/20070923/53396626576.html
But I think the cure is a Resistance proof pill with the price of a multivitamin.
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline ronaldinho

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  • Posts: 79
Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2007, 11:38:07 PM »
The trials that were halted concerned preventive vaccines, tested in people that were initially hiv negative. What about the therapeutic vaccines that are currently being studied to be used in people that are already HIV+? Does anybody know  the impact of the  failure of these two trials in the studies involving therapeutic vaccines?

Offline J220

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Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2007, 08:08:46 AM »
The trials that were halted concerned preventive vaccines, tested in people that were initially hiv negative. What about the therapeutic vaccines that are currently being studied to be used in people that are already HIV+? Does anybody know  the impact of the  failure of these two trials in the studies involving therapeutic vaccines?

Too early to tell, but there are always different ways at seeing the glass (half full vs. half empty). Yes this is dissapointing but now we know that this approach may not work - although as BB states it was probably already suspected, and even then there are difference of opinions as some scientists are not ready to discard this approach. But at least they can leave this one behind and see that researchers focus on a different path.

There are still plenty of other trials out there with different methodologies that could yield results. And even then when I personally, feel down about it I think about my "back-up", the Virxsys gene therapy, which is going real well. This seems to work, and even if it's not a cure, it will make the infection a latent never-manifested one, and better yet, as time goes by the modified hiv-resistant immune cells multply more and more, as the infected ones die off, resulting in less and less pathogen in the body, and who knows maybe until there is none left. And in the meantime you will be drug and symptom free, for good. So it's the complete reversal of the nominal disease progression. There's plenty of reason to be optimistic out there. J.

p.s. not intended as a thread hijack, just a "footnote". Cheers, J.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 08:17:11 AM by J220 »
"Hope is my philosophy
Just needs days in which to be
Love of Life means hope for me
Born on a New Day" - John David

Offline brooklynpoz

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  • My Babies, Pepper (8) & Rocko (3)
The Discontinuance of Merckís HIV Vaccine Trial Information
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2007, 08:38:05 AM »
Hi Everyone,

 As some have heard, Merck's Vaccine Trial was stopped, and I came across GeoVax's comments on this, and what they are doing to proceed with their vaccine trails. Seemed interesting. Here is the link......

http://www.geovax.com/newsroom/press_release_trial_response_sep07_web.pdf

Frankie
Diagnosed, Monday,  8/9/2004, 1ST year was ruff , now I am well adjusted .
Current Med's ; Kaletra & Truvada
Undetecable,<48 ,  531 tcells, 21%
Keeping the faith, that they will get a cure in our lifetime.
LIVE , LOVE , LAUGH

Offline ronaldinho

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Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2007, 08:39:29 AM »
Effect of Merck's Failed International HIV Vaccine Trial on Research and Development

http://thebody.com/content/art43474.html

According to Mark Feinberg, Merck's vice president for Medical Affairs for Vaccines and Infectious Diseases, an estimated 90% of vaccine studies were using major elements of Merck's experimental vaccine.
John Shiver, head of Merck's basic research in vaccines, said he believes that no current approaches toward HIV vaccine development are working and that a new approach is needed. The world is spending $759 million annually on HIV vaccine development, up from $150 million annually in the 1990s, Seth Berkley, president of the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative, said. More than 90% of the funding is coming from governments, the Inquirer reports (Philadelphia Inquirer, 10/7)

Offline Tim Horn

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Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2007, 09:04:30 PM »
Here's a link to our more extensive look at the Merck vaccine failure... and why optimism certainly isn't dead.

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Very sad vaccine research news...
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2007, 06:47:30 PM »
There was also a good article in the Philadelphia Inquirer this past Sunday about how this jolted the industry, locally important as the vaccine was actually being developed in the suburbs of Philadelphia:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/business/20071007_Ending_of_HIV_vaccine_trial_jolts_industry.html

But not to worry, Philadelphia's esteemed Wistar Institute is developing another vaccine, though if you believe Edward Hooper it's just an overdue payback to all the dead AIDS victims.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 06:49:53 PM by philly267 »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

 


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