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Author Topic: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????  (Read 3418 times)

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Offline Suntropic98

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Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« on: July 06, 2006, 11:23:03 AM »
Does anyone know if this is bad? I have a whole pile of gear laying around and I'm scared shitless to take it because of my sustiva and truvada.

Also, can somebody please explain what androgel and testim are? I have fatigue like crackhead thats been up for a week straight with no sleep yet I get 8 hours of sleep a night. I'm thinking about asking my doctor to put me on some sort of test supplement but I have no idea how to confront her about it.


thanks.

Offline newt

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Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2006, 07:01:26 PM »
They's not worse than off meds, except perhaps too much of some being bad for your triglycerides, so not good if these are raised from the Sustiva, and anabolic steroids in too large quantities can be hard on the liver, so not good for a likewise reason.

Androgel (manufacturer's website) is a prescription testosterone replacement,commonly used for men with HIV, the lowest dose being 5g/day. It contains 1% testosterone.  A 5g application = 50mg testosterone of which 10% might be taken in through the skin.

Testim is an alternative, equivalent branded product.

Not sure a slug of the T will help you sleep though...

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Suntropic98

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Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2006, 07:51:34 AM »
They's not worse than off meds, except perhaps too much of some being bad for your triglycerides, so not good if these are raised from the Sustiva, and anabolic steroids in too large quantities can be hard on the liver, so not good for a likewise reason.

Androgel (manufacturer's website) is a prescription testosterone replacement,commonly used for men with HIV, the lowest dose being 5g/day. It contains 1% testosterone.  A 5g application = 50mg testosterone of which 10% might be taken in through the skin.

Testim is an alternative, equivalent branded product.

Not sure a slug of the T will help you sleep though...

- matt



Hey Matt, thanks for the response.

What are triglycerides? And how would I approach my doc about the test replacement? Maybe by telling her of the fatigue problem? I have an app at 1pm today EST. I'm not worry about the sleep issue, I've had enough of an experience with AS's to know how to time things right inorder to sleep.

So basically taking let's say Decca, Prop, Winni, Enanthat and Clenbuterol isnt going to do more damage whether I'm on meds or not? Right? I'm asking because I asked my pharmacist at my clinic about taking the clenbuterol and she said its a very bad idea because of my body temp being raised. However, I think she'll say anything to keep me from getting on juice just because they don't promote the idea of anyone taking A.S.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2006, 08:11:41 AM »
Why not explain your symptoms to your doctor and see what she recommends? Why are you thinking of taking steroids?

Offline Suntropic98

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  • Posts: 146
Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2006, 11:26:22 AM »
Why not explain your symptoms to your doctor and see what she recommends? Why are you thinking of taking steroids?


I've taken steroids in the past, the last cycle being last fall. Probably 9 cycles in all in my life. I'm just trying to get in shape because I want to compete again and without it its pretty much a dead end.


My doc is against me getting on anything aside from my hiv meds. she's a real bitch at times.

Offline Tim Horn

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Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2006, 12:06:34 PM »
Dear suntropic:

Simply because your doctor won't prescribe anabolic steroids -- if they're solely for "cosmetic" purposes -- doesn't make her a "bitch."  Just so you know, anabolic steroid prescribing practices are highly regulated in the United States, not by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (which oversees most prescription practices in the U.S.) but by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency.  There is a very real risk of healthcare providers losing their medical licenses -- and being brough up on criminal charges -- for prescribing anabolic steroids to patients who are not in medical need of these agents.

For HIV-positive people there are instances in which anabolic steroids (and testosterone) can be prescribed:

1) if they suffer from the condition for which the agent is approved (e.g., deca-durabolin is approved for the management of anemia caused by kidney failure).

2) if they suffer from low testosterone levels (hypogonadism) -- for which topical or intramuscular testosterone can be prescribed (there's very little chance of getting an anabolic steroid added on to threat hypogonadism).

3) Wasting syndrome.  There have been a handful of studies indicating that anabolic steroids, testosterone, and growth hormone can help maintain and reverse muscle loss.  Wasting syndrome, however, is really a manifestation of late-stage AIDS. 

If you don't suffer from any of these, getting a prescription -- or even permission -- from your doctor is understandably difficult. 

But getting back to the original question, I think Matt's comments are spot on.  And don't forget... anabolic steroids can cause liver problems, which is also a potential side effect of anti-HIV meds.  So, if you go for another cycle, I do think it's important that your doctor is at least aware of this and that you monitor your liver enzymes accordingly.

Tim Horn



« Last Edit: July 07, 2006, 12:10:45 PM by Tim Horn »

Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2006, 12:49:28 AM »
My friend Vito used to take anabolic steriods.  He belonged to a health club in Beverly Hills, shared stories and equipment with the stars but was basically lazy and chose to use steroids instead of actually working out.

Vito was a high priced escort, rich men paid for his services and paid for airfare to Greece, Monaco, Palermo, anywhere they lived or he wanted to be.  Vito died in a Los Angeles hospital about 15 years ago.  He had been in a coma for over a month, his mother went to the cafeteria for some lunch.  The Count from Monaco, the Prince from Austria and none of those millionaire men or the hollywood celebrities were there.  I was the friend holding his hand while he died.  He has a beautiful grave site in Palos Verde, with a view of Santa Catalina Island.  Have the best day
Michael

www.Commission-on-AIDS.org

Offline ryeguy

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  • Posts: 173
Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2006, 10:01:38 AM »
Sorry about your friend. I would like to point out that not all uses of A.S. are bad, and not all people who use them are`LAZY.'

I use Deccadurabolin and for me it helps. I must say before I used deca, I also worked out 4 times a week at the studio but due to my meds I was not able to build up my legs what so ever. They began to look ans FEEL more or less not like legs of a man in his late 20's early 30's but more like the legs of an old marathon runner with an eating disability. I cannot say that the A.S. cured this problem, but it did help dramatically.( The secret I found out just recently was in dropping the AZT in Trizivir which ended up being responsible for my chicken legs.)

Anyway, as long as the use of A.S. is not solely narcissistic, and you have a doc with experience in this field I rec comend it. A great book for more info: Built To Survive. This book is all about hiv and how A.S. can be used as a supplement to a Ha art therapy. It works for me!!

Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2006, 01:06:38 AM »
Hi Guys,

I was not intending to offend anyone.  Vito was the only person I have ever known who took Anabolic Steriods.  They were not prescribed by any doctor for any reason but smuggled in from a Mexico border town.  Within 24 hours of every injection, he got mean so, I left town for the night.  That was my personal experiences and was not aware of a valid medical reason for the use of such.  Have the best day
Michael

www.Commission-on-AIDS.org

Offline manhattanman

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  • Posts: 19
Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2006, 09:37:40 PM »
SunT,
I have been using Testim for about a week now and have notice an incredible difference in the quality of my sleeping. I sleep the same amount but it is a really deep  sleep and I wake up really refreshed, energy level has improved, worked out every day for 7 straight days, forced my self to take today off (except for cardio). My Doc prescribed it because my free testosterone was below normal and my total was in the low range of normal. He tested my testosterone level because I was feeling tired at night and would rather read than go to gym or other activity. From what I understand you can go on and off the testim or androgel as you need to.

Offline lydgate

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Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2006, 01:28:29 AM »
Several points:

1. You might have a hard time getting a prescription for AndroGel Or Testim if your testosterone levels (have they been checked?) are in the normal range (that's total testosterone as well as free testosterone).

2. If you've cycled a lot in the past, it's possible that your testosterone levels may be below normal.

3. As pointed out by ryeguy, not all uses of anabolics are "bad." Even when seriously off-label. The authors of "Built to Survive," Nelson Vergel and Michael Mooney, run a website: www.medibolics.com. Much of it is specifically written for HIV-positive individuals who are taking or considering taking anabolic steroids. It also contains a list of "anabolic-friendly" doctors in various states. There certainly are doctors (and patients) who believe that increasing muscle mass is a good prophylactic for later stages of HIV-disease, and that the risks outweigh the benefits.

4. The stigmatization of anabolics is an odd phenomenon, based more on politics than on scientific evidence. That having been said, I have to add that, while I'm all for free choice, I'm not sure I support juicing up to practice a competitive sport (in your case, bodybuilding, it would seem).

5. I'd be interested to hear what your cycles have consisted off, and what the side-effects have been. I'm assuming that Deca and some form of testosterone played a large part in at least some of the cycles. Any mood changes? As you know, Sustiva can cause mood problems (vivid dreams being the most common side-effect) in some patients. Hard, if not impossible, to predict what the interactions might be with ARVs. When did you start HAART?

6. If you're having a huge difficulty sleeping, consider a short course of something like Ambien. Or try taking your HIV meds at a different time of day. And practice "sleep hygiene."

Jay
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline Suntropic98

  • Member
  • Posts: 146
Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2006, 09:04:17 AM »
Several points:

1. You might have a hard time getting a prescription for AndroGel Or Testim if your testosterone levels (have they been checked?) are in the normal range (that's total testosterone as well as free testosterone).

2. If you've cycled a lot in the past, it's possible that your testosterone levels may be below normal.

3. As pointed out by ryeguy, not all uses of anabolics are "bad." Even when seriously off-label. The authors of "Built to Survive," Nelson Vergel and Michael Mooney, run a website: www.medibolics.com. Much of it is specifically written for HIV-positive individuals who are taking or considering taking anabolic steroids. It also contains a list of "anabolic-friendly" doctors in various states. There certainly are doctors (and patients) who believe that increasing muscle mass is a good prophylactic for later stages of HIV-disease, and that the risks outweigh the benefits.

4. The stigmatization of anabolics is an odd phenomenon, based more on politics than on scientific evidence. That having been said, I have to add that, while I'm all for free choice, I'm not sure I support juicing up to practice a competitive sport (in your case, bodybuilding, it would seem).

5. I'd be interested to hear what your cycles have consisted off, and what the side-effects have been. I'm assuming that Deca and some form of testosterone played a large part in at least some of the cycles. Any mood changes? As you know, Sustiva can cause mood problems (vivid dreams being the most common side-effect) in some patients. Hard, if not impossible, to predict what the interactions might be with ARVs. When did you start HAART?

6. If you're having a huge difficulty sleeping, consider a short course of something like Ambien. Or try taking your HIV meds at a different time of day. And practice "sleep hygiene."

Jay



Bro that site fucking rules, the one that has the doc list. Thanks.

Some cycles that I've done.....

Sustanon 300---- wk 1: 2 CCS, wks 2 & 3-- 3 CCS, wks 4-9: 4 CCs, wk 10 5-CCS, wk 11 & 12: 4 CCS, Wks 13-17: 3CCS, wks 18-21: 2 CCS, wks 22-24: 1 CC

Decca 300 ----- wk 3: 2 CCs, wk 4-12: 3 CCS, wk 13-17: 2CCS wk 18-24: 1 CC

Anadrol 75mg-----wk 1: 1/2 pill each day, Wks 2-6: 1 pill each day

Fina--- Weeks 13-17 3CCs, Wks 18-24 2 CCs

When I finished that cycles I gave my body a rest for 2 months and did a PCT (post cycle treatment) taking Novo and Clomid. After I was finished I started a cutting cycle which is listed below....

Prop---  Wks 1 & 2: 2 CCS, Wks 3-8: 3 CCS, Wks 9-12: 4 CCS, weeks 13 & 14 3 CCs, weeks 15 & 16 : 2 CCs

Decca 300----weeks 1 & 2 : 1 CCs, Weeks 3-8 : 2 CCs, Weeks 9-12 3 CCs, weeks 13 & 14: 2 CCs and weeks 15 & 16 1 CC

Winnstrol 5mg-----weeks 3-8 25 mg a day and Weeks 9-12 35 mg a day

Clenbuterol 2 mg------weeks 13 & 14: 10 mg a day, weeks 15 & 16: 14 mg a day

I kept my diet right, high fat and protein while low carbs. I also too 1400mg a week of Vitamin B-12 injections.

That was late last spring and the summer...the post cycle treatment was during august and september....the cutting cycle was fall and winter. Feb. 06' was when I was diagnosed and have not touched any AS since I started my meds in March.

Sunny
« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 09:11:47 AM by Suntropic98 »

Offline Duude

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Re: Taking anabolic steroids while on Meds????
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2006, 08:08:11 PM »
Hey Sunny,
     Whats up bro?  Almost 2 years ago I was hurt at work and ended up with an impinged shoulder, messed up neck, and back.  Work Comp has been dicking me around and even after the doctor they send me to and their medical evaulator doctor said I need surgery to fix the prob, they decided to send me back to their medical evaluator once again for him to give another opinion.  This isnt going to happen until the end of October, which will put me at the 2 year mark. 
     In the meantime I started meds in April and over the past 2 years I have lost more than an inch in my biceps and I now look like I have the body of a 9 year old.  That may be cool for Michael Jackson, but Im not feeling it.  I have lost too much muscle, strength, and stamina.  Until this year, I have always had the energy of a 12 year old and the combination of everything has put that luxury to an end. 
     I approached my doctor today with the request to be put on a AS (I feel Deca is appropriate and is covered by ADAP), citing my weight loss of 25 pounds in a year, my shoulder injury, blah, blah, blah.  He was having none of that and said Ensure should be used.  I tried to explain that I am not comfortable waiting until I am 120 pounds and have to play catch up on gaining muscle.  Of course I left the office a little pissed and plan on a second opinion in a larger city.  I understand the legal implications on the doctors end and respect his decision, but I refuse to take no as an answer.  I am the one who has to live with my circumstances and I am not satisfied with his decision.
     Good luck with your search and stay well bro.
duuude

 


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