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Author Topic: CFS really a false negative?  (Read 4088 times)

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Offline tachyon

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CFS really a false negative?
« on: July 03, 2006, 11:37:55 PM »
OK... this is a weird theory... but people with Chronic Fatigue Symptoms have basically all the symptoms of HIV. Could it be that certain strains of HIV resist detection? So, CFS is really just a false negative test?

So... if you're tested negative, you're still not certain...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2006, 11:46:46 PM »
I have not seen any scientific data to suggest that CFS in any way interferes with an ELISA test at thirteen weeks past suspected exposure.

You are indeed correct about symptoms, though as someone with both viruses, I would not compare CFS to acute retroviral syndrome (serconversion sickness) but rather to chronic HIV infection, experienced months or years past seroconversion,  but before opportunistic infections.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline tachyon

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2006, 12:15:28 AM »
I've neglected to properly state my theory. What I meant was:

Suppose a patient is tested (false) negative for HIV; he has chronic HIV infection symptoms, and perhaps is certain of blood transmission from an infected person. Since the test results show false, the doctor deems the patient to have CFS (based on the common symptoms, this is the next best diagnostic).

I am assuming that there is a possibility of false negative even at the chronic stage. Doing a quick google search, it appears that the articles do not forbid the possibility. Though they claim the chance is low, they do not eliminate it completely. Therefore, it is possible.

Also, I'm not sure if you can safely state that you have both viruses -- a CFS virus has yet to be isolated, and in fact, many doctors believe CFS to be a myth. So, I believe the diagnosis of CFS is subjective from doctor to doctor.

I have not seen any scientific data to suggest that CFS in any way interferes with an ELISA test at thirteen weeks past suspected exposure.

You are indeed correct about symptoms, though as someone with both viruses, I would not compare CFS to acute retroviral syndrome (serconversion sickness) but rather to chronic HIV infection, experienced months or years past seroconversion,  but before opportunistic infections.



Offline jkinatl2

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2006, 12:21:12 AM »
Actually, I tested positive for the Epstein-Barr virus, which is widely implicated in CFS. It was that virus to which I refer.

As for your HIv test, the ELISA test would not be negatively influenced by the presence or absence of another virus. Though in rare cases the ELISA reacts to other, similarly proportioned viral antibodies, the followup Western Blot will rule out HIV infection (as will a subsequent viral load and other more specific testing).

If anything, the ELISA test sometimes pull a false positive due to other pathogens, but not, at the appropriate window period, a false negative.

In short, the answer is no. Your HIV negative result is definitive so long as it has been three months or more since your last unprotected encounter.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline tachyon

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2006, 12:30:03 AM »
I'm still worried about how the EB virus has yet to be isolated -- just because your test shows certain antibodies might not mean you have EB, for sure... might these antibodies be the manifest result of a combination of other viruses?

Moreover, it's the same with the HIV virus -- it's still in need of isolation.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2006, 12:41:04 AM »
No, actually, the two are very different in that the western blot and subsequent VL tests isolate HIV rather effectively. They are some of the most accurate and sensitive tests in medical science.

HIV has not only been isolated, it has been photographed and videotaped in the process of infecting a cell. I fear you may be getting information from HIv denialist sites at this point.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Thomasdue

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2006, 06:11:31 AM »
This is exactly the fear I have in my situation. I have been diagnosed with CFS but was infected with what they think was ebv. They don't really know...

Offline tachyon

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2006, 12:00:50 AM »
Where can I find such photographs/videotapes of isolated HIV/EB viruses? (Surely some must be on the web!)

No, actually, the two are very different in that the western blot and subsequent VL tests isolate HIV rather effectively. They are some of the most accurate and sensitive tests in medical science.

HIV has not only been isolated, it has been photographed and videotaped in the process of infecting a cell. I fear you may be getting information from HIv denialist sites at this point.



Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2006, 12:11:30 AM »
Tachyon,

If you read our lessons section you'll find the images you're looking for. That's why we tell you to read the Welcome Thread.

Ya dig?

MtD

Offline tachyon

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2006, 02:35:57 AM »
I read through http://www.aidsmeds.com/lessons/HIVtests.htm
However, I can't seem to find pictures/videotapes of the actual HIV virus. Would you mind directly linking me to pics of the virus?

Tachyon,

If you read our lessons section you'll find the images you're looking for. That's why we tell you to read the Welcome Thread.

Ya dig?

MtD

Offline RapidRod

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2006, 02:54:10 AM »
tachyon, first of all you are not to PM the forums regulars, second if you would have read through the Lessons you would have seen the pictures. Like everyone the responded to your post. CFS will not affect your results from an HIV test, you won't get a false negative if the test was done at the correct time. Read the "Welcome" post at the top of the page and then go back and read ALL of the lessons, not just the one on testing.

Offline Ann

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2006, 05:30:16 AM »
Tachyon,

According to the other thread you started (and I locked), you never had a risk of hiv infection in the first place so this discussion is purely academic. This is why we ask people to keep all their information in ONE thread.

Quote
Source of infection? I've had only had sex with one person, and this person doesn't have HIV. I've never used a "dirty" needle, as the only shots I've had were from medical clinics or hospitals (hopefully those were clean...).

But, back in late January, I got a semi-deep cut from a photographer trying to put on fake collars with sharp metal clips. (He'd cut his fingers on the metal before, too!) Do you think I could have contracted HIV from the photographer?

Tachyon, please, read through the HIV Transmission Lesson. Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that is primarily spread through unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. You would NOT have become infected from this incident with the photographer.

Whatever is going on with you, it has nothing to do with hiv. Please work closely with your doctor to find out the real cause of your discomfort.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can make sure your fella is using them properly. While you're on either on of those pages, have a look through the bottom three links in the left-hand column. They discuss ways that you, as a woman, can protect yourself. I recommend the female condom as they are also excellent barriers against hiv infection, and importantly, they give YOU the control over condom use. They can even be put in place in advance so you're not fumbling around at the crucial moment. They're fiddly to use at first, but if you can put a tampon in, you can use these. It gets easier with practice. Give them a try.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline ScienceGuy25

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2006, 10:17:37 PM »
Tachyon

I know a good deal about EBV infections.  First you should be aware that at least 90-95% of the worlds population is infected with EBV, its one of the most ubiquitous viruses known to man.  Most people will get infected in childhood and have no symptoms, just about everyone else who's not infected in child hood will get it during adolescence...Does the term "mono" ring a bell, the kissing disease??? 

As far as EBV being implicated in CFS, i'd be interested in seeing that data as so many peole have it, it would be tough to have a "control" population.

Nonetheless, EBV is a very distinct virus and an HIV ELISA test would not mistakenly recognize EBV as HIV (or vice versa). 

Offline tachyon

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2006, 02:40:57 AM »
sorry about PMing you. but, i really cannot find pictures of the HIV virus in the Lessons after going through them again!! Am I constantly skipping a link somewhere.. or what?

tachyon, first of all you are not to PM the forums regulars, second if you would have read through the Lessons you would have seen the pictures. Like everyone the responded to your post. CFS will not affect your results from an HIV test, you won't get a false negative if the test was done at the correct time. Read the "Welcome" post at the top of the page and then go back and read ALL of the lessons, not just the one on testing.

Offline tachyon

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2006, 02:43:06 AM »
Hi Ann,

I did read through the transmission guide (as well as the lessons), but I can't say I'm totally not worried about transmission, since there was an open cut on both ends, and wet blood on the metal, and transmission was done within seconds. "HIV enters the body through open cuts"

Offline Ann

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Re: CFS really a false negative?
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2006, 06:55:02 AM »
tachyon,

Hiv transmission just does not happen under the circumstances you describe. There have only been a few rare incidents of people becoming infected via cuts and these weren't little nicks like you got, they were major car accident type injuries where both parties had very deep, profusely bleeding cuts.

Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus and successfull transmission normally occurs INSIDE the human body as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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