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Author Topic: Clarification Please  (Read 9491 times)

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Offline Grinch

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  • Posts: 325
Clarification Please
« on: August 21, 2007, 08:27:55 AM »
I'd like clarification of policy here please.
 Am I correct in my understanding as evidenced by replies from moderators in another thread that it is perfectly OK to make sweeping statements like "All conservatives are racist."?

I have complained about this on several occasions and not once has the person making these statements been censured, in fact I've in essence been told "It's his opinion too bad for you." 

Is this and will it continue to be, acceptable behavior on these forums?
Where is the line?

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2007, 08:44:20 AM »
This is silly, but I will try for the last time. I said that in my opinion most conservatives are racist, not all, but most. Yes, that is my OPINION and from my experiences that is what I believe. If you believe otherwise, fine, that's your OPINION and you're entitled to it, and I defend your right to express it and would never advocate your censorship, no matter how strongly I disagree with you. Here's another opinion that I have, most true conservatives I know support the First Amendment.


Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2007, 08:50:40 AM »
Grinch, I was watching that thread. Dachs acknowledged your point about the all-encompassing "all" and ammended it to "most."

Politics and matters related to it are a minefield to get into. How about we just agree that you two have differences and perhaps always will.

It seems to me that he has legitimately acknowledged your point and ammended the expression of his opinion accordingly.

We watch these situations very carefully. I can't answer about the other instances you refer to.

Whenever you feel flaming is going on by all means report it. In this specific instance I see two people with very different outlooks about which they feel strongly. Since a meeting of minds doesn't seem likely to happen, I suggest just stepping back and letting it be. 
 
Please clarify if I am missing something here.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2007, 08:57:48 AM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Grinch

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2007, 09:58:58 AM »
Actually I'm not simply referring to Dachshund.  My question and the major problem I'm having is:
It seems that its perfectly OK for some members to make sweeping generalizations.
It seems perfectly OK for some members to make vile comments and accusations.
In this particular instance the only correction made was changing the word "all" to "most" by one member.  Molten Storm's comments however still stand.

So my understanding is:

It is perfectly ok to say hateful things about entire groups of people as long as it is preceded by the words "In my opinion"  Is this correct.  It really appears this way.

I have no problem with the fact that another member disagrees with me.  I do however have a huge problem when members are allowed to make hateful, and sweeping statements about whole groups of people.

There is a world of difference between:
"He has blue eyes and is a racist." and "All people with blue eyes are racist."

If someone wants to make the statement "Fred Smith is racist" That's something that can be freely debated.
However stating "Almost everyone that is named Fred is racist." is not OK.  Thats not a debate thats a bigoted hateful statement.

I would think that in a forum dominated by a group of people that rightly feel discriminated against and persecuted by narrow minded idiots, there would be no tolerance for this behavior.

That really is the heart of the issue for me.  Many here complain about bigotry and narrow minded people yet turn around and make the same sweeping generalizations that they claim to hate so much.  What's worse is not once when called on it has there been an apology or a call to stop, instead wording gets changer to "In my opinion"

I personally am dead set against bigotry.  I hate with a passion all forms of racisms and discrimination.  I instead judge people based on their individual actions, not on the actions of groups of people.

So again I have to ask, is it OK to make sweeping generalizations?  Do the members and moderators of this forum support bigoted statements against entire groups of people? 
Are there specific groups of people that are OK to target or are all groups fair game?

Offline Cliff

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2007, 10:17:07 AM »
I think people get your point.  Not all conservatives are racist and it's wrong to suggest that they are.  I'm not sure what more you want. 

Personally, I think making a sweeping (and inaccurate) generalisation based on someones race, sexuality or sex seems much more offensive than making one based on a political persuasion.  I don't find the two quite as equal as you seem to be suggesting.

There's this political party in England that is anti-immigration and basically seems like a white nationalist party in all but name only.  When I first arrived and ask about that party (BNP), someone said it was the racist party.  A generalisation, yes.  But it seems pretty accurate when reviewing their politics and beliefs. 

Not all generalisations should be banned from the forums.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2007, 10:17:47 AM »
Jeeze people at least get my words right. At no time did I edit my post changing ALL to MOST. I'm sorry to correct Andy, but I was pointing out to Grinch what I actually did say. If I am to be quoted please quote me correctly.

With that, I now invoke my right to remain silent, because in my OPINION I find all of this.....

Offline David_CA

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2007, 10:33:10 AM »
Grinch,

If I'm correct in thinking that you're referring to Molten's joke that was deleted, then no, it's not ok.  The fact that it was deleted is evidence of that.  I try not to make the hateful generalizations you keep referring to.  I hear them too from the general public;  gays are pedophiles (not true any more than for heterosexuals), gays are promiscuous (in MY opinion, more true than not, but still not true of all gays).  For the most part, I'm used to hearing 'em and I'm over that, but that doesn't mean I like them.  I think their silly and often stupid, but I don't get my panties in a wad over them.

As to your questions:
Quote
So again I have to ask, is it OK to make sweeping generalizations?
This question is so vague that it's almost unanswerable.

Quote
Do the members and moderators of this forum support bigoted statements against entire groups of people?
Being that there are representatives of all sexualities, races, income levels, ethnicities, education levels, religions, etc. here on these forums, I think this is a ridiculous question to ask.

Quote
Are there specific groups of people that are OK to target or are all groups fair game?
The same response above applies here with the exception of groups that support discrimination.  Perhaps saying a member of the Klan is racist would be ok, or would that be generalizing and be unsatisfactory?

I think that the issues you're having are not going to be resolved in a public forum, if they ever can be.  Are you afraid that the reader will actually believe these generalizations or are you upset that the poster things it's true?  There's a lot of truth in what Cliff said "Personally, I think making a sweeping (and inaccurate) generalisation based on someones race, sexuality or sex seems much more offensive than making one based on a political persuasion.  I don't find the two quite as equal as you seem to be suggesting."

David
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Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2007, 11:36:40 AM »
Dachs, my apologies for having misquoted you. I stand corrected.

Grinch, your question puts me in mind of another one,the old do you beat your wife more or less often than you used to? It's a lose lose situation. You are making vague  and broad generalizations yourself when you say things like "it's ok for some people..."

Whether you believe it or not we moderators work very hard to calling situations as we see them no matter who is involved. And we will continue to do just that.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2007, 11:41:02 AM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Grinch

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  • Posts: 325
Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2007, 11:41:36 AM »
Quote
Not all conservatives are racist and it's wrong to suggest that they are.

Actually that's the first time it's been stated. None of the bigots that make the statement on more than one occasion however has corrected themselves, nor have they been asked to do so.  Instead the issue gets side stepped. I get told to let it go and not get upset. 

Quote
Personally, I think making a sweeping (and inaccurate) generalisation based on someones race, sexuality or sex seems much more offensive than making one based on a political persuasion.  I don't find the two quite as equal as you seem to be suggesting.

That's your opinion.  I disagree with it.  Yes there are groups like the KKK that openly admit racism and folks like that are fair game in my opinion.  Comments like "Scratch a conservative, scratch a racist" however.  A comment that the poster was not chastised for making, is nothing like stating KKK members are racist.

My comments aren't limited to race.  My concerns are more general.  There are members here that make openly bigoted statements that are inaccurate and hurtful.  I really am trying to understand why such statements are tolerated.  I'll drop it now but I have to say it really appears that this forum supports bigotry and hate as long as it's directed against an approved sub-set of people. In this particular case Conservatives and Republicans.  Who's next?

Please don't think for a moment that I am offended just because I happen to be Conservative.  I have resorted to physical violence against those that feel the right to call someone fag, or nigger, or cracker.  It's all wrong and I take great exception to it regardless who it's aimed at.

Those that do support this type of action please never utter a word about being discriminated against again.  Through your actions you've lost the right.

Those that don't, well, good for you.  Someday that whole created equal thing might come to pass.




Offline Grinch

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2007, 11:48:14 AM »
Andy- I have to use the term "some people"  else it's deemed a personal attack and I get warned for that.

I've dropped it. You're stance is crystal clear.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2007, 11:59:40 AM »
I don't believe this forum "supports bigotry and hate."

Offline Grinch

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  • Posts: 325
Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2007, 08:49:50 AM »
I have to ask for further clarification.  I have been told by moderators to report threads that I find to be personal attacks.  I have done so on three occasions.  Most recently for a direct attack on me by name.  The thread in question used the exact formula that I received a warning for.  Mention a comment by a member in an irrelevant thread in such a manner as to provoke a response.  I was immediately given a warning. The member I reported for the exact same thing, nothing.
 Never have I received so much as a "We reviewed your report and find it invalid for the following reason."
So are there now double standards?  Because I don't toe the Left wing line and instead believe we are responsible for our own actions do  I have to closely watch my words, yet others may attack at will without even a "Too bad for you" from the moderators?
If you're going to be biased at least be open about it.
Are there so many reports daily that moderators don't have the time to reply?
They certainly had no problem telling me to refrain from posting on this site.

Offline Dachshund

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  • Posts: 5,941
Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2007, 09:21:41 AM »
Grinch I just have to ask. Why do you continue to access the site? If you think AidsMeds is nothing more than a liberal, bigoted, forum where all the moderators employ double standards, why do you come here at all? In all honesty, have you checked out other HIV forums that might be more to your liking and satisfying to your needs? Aids2HIV comes to mind. I know the rules there are a bit more strict and you might find the guidelines more to your liking. Have you checked that site out? Have you considered creating your own forum? I know others here have created HIV discussion groups using Myspace. That way at least you would be able to control and set the rules and agenda. Maybe you can create the change you seek? Good luck to you.

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2007, 10:07:02 AM »
Grinch,

If you want feedback regarding your reports, you need to say so in your report.


We would like to remind everyone at this time to use the ďReport to moderatorĒ link rather than respond to inappropriate behaviour yourself. If you choose to send a moderator report, please know that the reports are strictly confidential and only seen by the moderators. If you wish to have feedback on any report you send, please say so in the report.


As a matter of fact, we were quite busy yesterday with other moderator reports. To be totally honest, I cannot for the life of me see how the post you reported was an attack on you. It was simply true and a matter of public record. As for it not having anything to do with the subject matter at hand, many of the posts in that particular thread also could be construed as hijacks. If we were to jump on every tiny slight, we'd have no members left to moderate.

We do our level best to moderate these forums in an even-handed manner. If you think you could do better, then start a forum and show us how it's done. It's a thankless job and I think you'd soon discover that.


Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2007, 10:32:18 AM »
Attacks on libs,dems,warmers,abortionists,homosexuals,non Christians are not permitted here. Now if you want to kick some sand in the face of anti abortionists,Christians,Conservatives,people who choose abstinence,producers,US corps,or people who believe the weather will continue to change, go for it.
The whole racist thing is moronic. By some contributors standards every human is a racist. It cant be helped. Yes,it would be a wonderful world if I could walk down the street and not think,there is a yellow or black person,but then I would have to be blind or braindead.  I am a conservative and I am not a racist. Most people where I live are conservative and I dont consider them racist. I am from the state of PA,which I think is extremely liberal or socialistic and I cant believe the racism that exists there. I know most of it is the result of the ethnic tensions that divide most northeast cities but its still there. Irish hate Italians,Italians hate blacks,everyone hates Mexicans, and so on. Everyone dislikes the last batch of immigrants.

Offline Grinch

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2007, 11:54:02 AM »
Ann,
My problem is I was warned for doing the same thing.  You took great personal offense when I did exactly the same thing to Philly.  I was in fact  threatened with a ban for this. All I'm asking for is what are the rules here?  I'm a big boy and will gladly defend myself but come on, If I jump on someone it's wrong.  If the group of 10 or so core posters do it's fair game.

How exactly is defending the statement "most conservatives are racist" a hijack?  I didn't just interject that, I responded to it.  I also backed out of it while others continued.

I do moderate forums of a different subject matter and understand exactly what's involved.

To be honest you personally have jumped all over me Ann at every opportunity, since I called your "You can't spread herpes if you're on meds" statement irresponsible given your position as moderator.  Since that day you have always found fault with me and always allowed others to make any statement they wish, to, for, or about me. Let me defend myself and I get singled out and told to drop it.  Never, not once has anyone been chastised for anything they have said to me. Is that even handed?
Can you honestly tell me if I had interjected a completely irrelevant "matter of public record" I wouldn't have received at a minimum a warning?

If you can, OK, we'll see next time the opportunity arises.  If not, I guess I make my point.

Offline Ann

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2007, 01:10:54 PM »
Grinch,

Look mate, if you think I've got the time or the interest to persecute you, you've got another thing coming. I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Philly. As for the herpes thing, I could care less that you called me on it. What you believe in relation to that matter is your own business.

As a matter of fact, I avoid your posts whenever possible. The only time I pay them the slightest bit of attention is when they are the subject of a moderator report.

Get over yourself.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline MoltenStorm

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2007, 08:12:38 AM »
Quote
Yes it is meant as a racists slur.  Yes I am of the opinion many of your comments are racist and show extreme bigotry on your part.
I further believe you know full well that these terms are meant to be hurtful.

I think this is a bit unfair. When have I said anything that was intended to be racist or bigoted?
"Love is always patient and kind. It is never jealous. Love is never boastful nor conceited. It is never rude or selfish. It does not take offense and is not resentful. Love takes no pleasure in other people's sins, but delights in the truth. It is always ready to excuse, to trust, to hope, and to endure whatever comes." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, adaptation in A Walk To Remember

CD4: 555 / 29% / Undetectable - 7 Nov 2006
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Offline Grinch

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2007, 09:10:48 AM »
Reply to that in your own thread please.  If I answer here I'll be accused of hijacking my own thread.  Of course your actions are perfectly fine.

Offline Grinch

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2007, 09:54:58 AM »
Actually Jack you might not be far off.  Of course now I have a moderator implying I'm a wife beater as well.  The amazing thing to me is not one of my direct questions has ever been addressed.  I'm left to believe that some may act as they want with no regard for others, while the rest of us must follow an ever changing set of rules.

What I have received are PM's from some members thanking me for standing up to the vocal minority that love to bully those that may dare have a different opinion, and a request from "management"  that I refrain from posting on this site all together.

It seems to me we have our own form of bigotry right here at Aidsmeds. So before I get banned for throwing that opinion out in the open, let me hijack my own thread and ask:

What will all of you that believe all the world's evils are the fault of conservatives and Bush, do next year when you have a liberal house, senate, and white house?  Who's fault will it be then, that people are still hungry, and people still don't have health care, and the economy is in the toilet?

I've offered on more than one occasion to sponsor those members that claim how much they care to accompany me on a trip to provide free health care, to put your money where your mouth is and prove just how caring you are, I received exactly zero offers and instead got the old that was a "straw man argument"  You vocal minority bullies sure are caring eh? Or is it because the government wasn't doing it?

  In this extremely left leaning microcosm of society you bully anyone that dares disagree, then tell them they're not welcome.  Is that how you'll run our country?  I have to think so based on what I see here.

On last thought has really been bothering me as I mulled over recent events here.  Matty got attacked because he's gay and everyone is understandably upset.  The majority of the members of this forum have been discriminated against and claim they want an end to it.  Yet at every opportunity you do the exact same thing. I'm different than you, Jack is different than you.  Your actions are not to welcome us with open arms and be willing to concede our feelings and beliefs.  You instead belittle and attack when ever possible.
Tell me how that's fundamentally different than what happened to Matty, or anyone else here that has been discriminated against?

Do I fight back and sometimes get a bit rough?  Yes I do, because I'm pushed.  What I don't do is kick someone when they're down.  What I don't do is try and take someones ten minutes of fame from them when they're likely to soon find out life's really not all wonderful and one pill a day, What I don't do is tell anyone their thoughts and opinions aren't welcome even when I disagree.  What I don't do is continue to berate and belittle a youngster that hasn't a clue what he really thinks about life when he's unable to defend himself.

That's how I believe someone that clams to be un-bigoted should act.  Those of you that claim to be open minded and claim to believe everyone is equal, can you say the same?  Based on what I see here the answer for the most vocal among you is no.

Have the best day

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2007, 10:16:46 AM »
Grinch if you can equate someone getting the shit kicked out of them for being gay with people expressing their opinions then I really need no lectures from you. Talk about generalising, that is all you do, and I will ask you (not demand) that you not include me.

I ask you again if you find the conditions of the forum, so unfair, the people's opinions so deplorable, then why do you stay? Ignoring the past six years of Republican rule and asking members to predict the future is well, ridiculous.

You might as well face the cold, hard, facts. The majority of the people that access this site are left leaning homosexuals. If you think we are mean and bitter and insensitive, well guess what? We are! And where do you think we learned it? From the majority society that you condone and walk so freely among without the fear of getting your head bashed in for being gay.

Your comparisons of gay bashing to your hurt feelings disgust me. Since you used the tactic of sighting unnamed private messages, I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts Jake has already sent Matty a PM of condolence and there lies the difference.   
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 04:34:39 PM by Dachshund »

Offline Tim Horn

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2007, 10:19:56 AM »
On last thought has really been bothering me as I mulled over recent events here.  Matty got attacked because he's gay and everyone is understandably upset.  The majority of the members of this forum have been discriminated against and claim they want an end to it.  Yet at every opportunity you do the exact same thing. I'm different than you, Jack is different than you.  Your actions are not to welcome us with open arms and be willing to concede our feelings and beliefs.  You instead belittle and attack when ever possible.
Tell me how that's fundamentally different than what happened to Matty, or anyone else here that has been discriminated against?

You've GOT to be kidding me with this. Matty was physicially assaulted -- with a broken arm and crunching bones to prove it -- by gay-bashing thugs. If you really think this exemplifies anything in the Forums, well... I just don't know what to say about that.

There is a big difference between the personal and the political. Major generalizations and "attacks" on politics are leveled in these Forums all the time. What we don't tolerate are personal attacks... and fact of the matter is, some people here -- on both sides of the divide -- interpret attacks and generalizations on politics as personal attacks. This simply isn't our problem.

The next time you're personally attacked -- meaning that YOU, Grinch, are called something or threatened -- let us know. But comparing yourself to Matty's experience? Whatever comes of THAT statement, well... you're on your own.

Tim Horn

Offline Carolann

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2007, 10:36:11 AM »
Dear Grinch,

With all due respect, asking gay people and any self respecting woman for that matter to accept republicans with open arms is like having a black person want to join the KKK.  Why? Because most republicans may not want gays dead, but will fight tooth and nail to deny them their rights. Women have not been served well by this party either unless they agree to remain backstage and let the old boys club remain as reactionary as ever. I am not saying that you are like that, but an alliance with this party means that you probably agree with most of their ideology, otherwise why bother. If someone like Jack can come on here and claim that \"everyone hates Mexicans\" and that is okay with you, well dig yourself in deeper. You must take into account what Republicans have meant for the rights of gays, women, and other minorities, as they continue to think we are less. Did you see the Annie Coulter making the fag joke? Oh how how they laughed!!!!There is no way to reconcile this no matter how many token blacks and Latinos they recruit. And, I really find any gay person who feels the love from the republican party pathetic.

Disclaimer: the views and opinions here expressed are mine and do not represent the views of aidsmeds (although they might now own them)

CA

Offline Iggy

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2007, 11:15:26 AM »
Grinch,

I've got a problem with sweeping generalizations and I don't believe racism is confined to one political party. 

I do feel however that the Republican party has a bad reputation of their own making. 

The Democratic Party has one of the worst records of having a unified and coherent message on issues and often loses to the Republicans when it comes to getting a message out.  I believe that to be a prodcut of them believing that all opinions are valid and deserve equal voice and any centralizing of the party platform and message is the dinner bell call for mutiny with in the Party.

In short - the Democrats, when it comes to Party structure and discipline within the ranks - are frankly a mess.

The Republicans on the other hand have in general been a pretty fine tuned and polished party when it comes to speaking clearly about Republican issues and where the party stands.  There is very little ambiguity about most of their  messages.

So if most people feel that they are homophobic, racist or misogynist then I suspect that comes more from actions and stands that the Republican party has taken than anything the Democratic PR machine can label them with.

Offline jack

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2007, 11:27:04 AM »
Carrol. my point about "everyone hates Mexicans" is thats the way it is up north where I am from and with people who live in Texas who are from the north.  I know this makes me a racist,but I do have many Mexican friends,some not legal.
I dont know where you are from,but you cant deny the ethic division and hatred that most northeast and midwest cities are built on. I hate to be simplistic but it is simple,throughout history the newest wave of immigrants start on the bottom rung of the ladder and acceptance is very difficult for at least two generations. I am Irish,and the Irish were despised and hated for decades(and for good reason) till the Italians started coming.
I find much of this racism and ethic division is hardly noticeable in the south,southwest,and west coast because of so many new and diverse people moving into these areas.
Now you may ask,how would I know if there is racism or ethnic division if I am not Mexican or Black. Its easy,you hear people talk about it. When I am up North all I here is wetback and Nword from my old friends,who have never voted for a republican,I rarely if ever hear it down here. I cant remember the last time I heard a race or ethnic joke(not counting Imus)in the southwest or far west.
Its not uncommon for me to feel like the minority in many Houston restaurants and shopping areas,its that diverse.
Thats a good thing.

Offline Iggy

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2007, 11:34:47 AM »
Jack,

I think you make a good point, but I ask you to consider a question:

Does the abscence of pronouced racist terms by a population equate lack of racism by that group.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it is amazing how much epithets are thrown around in Northeast cities (speaking from New York) but what I find interesting is that many people of color that I know feel more comfortable here than in the South or Southwest where people call them ma'am or sir...to their face.

Offline jack

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2007, 11:40:00 AM »
Iggy, I find it exactly the opposite. Rarely do you find Dems who disagree or stand up against the power structure of the party. The only Dem who had the guts in the past 4 years is Uncle Joe Lieberman. On the other hand many republicans have distanced themselves from Bush on many issues other than the war. Immigration,SS reform,medical reform,education deal he did with the Dems.
In the 8 years of Clinton I can not think of one single Dem who came out against Clintons and Gores campaign contribution from the Chinese and  their many violations of campaign laws in the race against Dole, a guy who had no chance of winning. I can not think one single Dem who criticized Clinton for having "sexual relations" with a young intern in the White House. I can think of not one single Dem who criticized Clinton for pardoning arch criminal Marc Rich in return for contributions to his library, or his despicable pardon of the Puerto Rican terrorists who murdered NY policeman so Hillary could get the PR vote in NY. I can think of not one single Dem who criticized Clinton for not taking Bin when he was offered him or glossing over the First WTC bombing as some sort of minor crime.
Now Republicans have had a better grass roots organization over the past two decades,and receive many more small contributions than the Dems, who depend on large dollar amounts from special interest groups like unions and personal injury lawyers for much of their money.

Offline Iggy

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2007, 11:44:49 AM »
Are you honestly trying to say that the Democrats are a more unified and organized party than the Republicans?

 ???

Offline ademas

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2007, 11:48:56 AM »
Quote
Republicans have had a better grass roots organization over the past two decades,and receive many more small contributions than the Dems, who depend on large dollar amounts from special interest groups like unions and personal injury lawyers for much of their money.

Please Jack...this is just laughable.
The Republican party has big business in their back pocket.
I remember the "buy blue" campaign a few years back.
I'm sure it was a miserable flop, simply because when you threw out the businesses that support the republican party, all that was left was Costco.

Offline jack

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2007, 11:49:24 AM »
Gee, Iggy, I have no idea if Blacks feel more comfortable in Northeast or South,southwest or west. I think its an individual thing. I like the warm weather,the food,the opportunity to achieve success and happiness without help from the government. And I love the people down here.
I play a lot of golf. You can go to almost any CC in Houston and see people of color,playing golf. I can honestly say I dont think I have ever seen a Black person or Mexican person playing golf at a CC in the North and I can tell you they would not be allowed or accepted. I forgot, Michael Jordan is the only Black I have ever heard of playing the CC I used to belong to up.
Maybe its just the area I am from up north,but each race or ethnic group seem to stay in their own areas.
In some very popular Houston restaurants its not unusual if you are an Anglo or a drunken Irishmen(like me) to be in the minority. I think that is good and its progress. I will be in NYC to see the Open next week and will compare.

Offline Iggy

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2007, 11:58:15 AM »
Maybe its just the area I am from up north,but each race or ethnic group seem to stay in their own areas.

I honestly see that more in the South than I do in the Northeast.  I dunno - maybe because nobody can afford the inner cities of the Northeast anymore - now that is a huge difference from the 60's and 70's!

In all truth, and speaking of just NY - the issue may indeed be more classism than racism.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2007, 12:09:00 PM »
Ann,
My problem is I was warned for doing the same thing.  You took great personal offense when I did exactly the same thing to Philly.  I was in fact  threatened with a ban for this. All I'm asking for is what are the rules here? 

Whoa... how did *I* get involved in here?  I haven't even been around here the past week at all.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2007, 01:39:42 PM »
Whoa... how did *I* get involved in here?  I haven't even been around here the past week at all.

If I remember correctly Grinch is talking about the time he chided you for complaining about your homophobic neighbor. You'll have to do the search, I'm too lazy, and in realty this is what this whole clarification nonsense thread is about. Racism just a convenient scapegoat to hide behind.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2007, 01:45:11 PM »
If I remember correctly Grinch is talking about the time he chided you for complaining about your homophobic neighbor. You'll have to do the search, I'm too lazy, and in realty this is what this whole clarification nonsense thread is about. Racism just a convenient scapegoat to hide behind.

Oh goodness.  A neighbor calls me an "AIDS infected faggot" to my face and I'm supposed to hold my tongue?  I vaguely recall some such foolishness but understandably I dismissed it out of hand.  Thanks, dearest Ma Tante Doxieaux for reminding me.

Anyway, "nuf said" really.  Now I'm morphing from being simply perplexed to a quickly developing anger, and my supply of sedatives is nil.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Grinch

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2007, 02:25:56 PM »
Actually you're wrong Dachshund but you often are with respects to what I'm saying.

I do see what happened to Matty as the same thing that occurs here, just taken to the extreme.  A group of bigots attacked not an individual but another group of people.  In this case homosexual men.  Matty was unlucky enough to be the target.  He was attacked physically but in reality the group was attacking homosexual men not Matty personally.

This really is no different than Molten Storm making the statement Scratch a Conservative, Scratch a racists.  Both are bigoted attacks.  Don't misunderstand, Matty suffered far worse and I would not think for a moment other wise.  I also hope that the people that harmed Matty are dealt with swiftly and harshly.
 I can guarantee that regardless of our differences I would have stood beside Matty and fought at his side had I been present.

Actually Dachshund you finally admitted what I have been saying. 
Quote
If you think we are mean and bitter and insensitive, well guess what? We are!

The difference between you and I is a big one. I believe in right and wrong, I don't try to color it to suit me. Bigotry is wrong in every way. It appears you justify bigotry because others have been mean to you and a group of people you belong to.

I personally respect absolutely nothing about you personally Dachshund that goes back to the day you claimed to be straight when someone stood up and argued with you, I would however put myself in harms way to protect you should someone attack you for your sexual preference, the color of your skin, your political beliefs or any other such thing.

I believe in the right  to argue a point and have differing opinions, I don't believe in the right to bully or change the rules or laws to suit us.

I asked for a clarification of the rules.  I asked that they be applied fairly. I got instead a moderator implying I'm a wife beater and a vocal group upset because I dare ask for equality for everyone.


CA, I'm not so much Republican as Conservative, big difference.  I believe in smaller less intrusive government.  I believe in responsibility for our own actions. I believe everyone deserves to be treated equally.  I vote for whomever I think might best represent those ideals.  Sometimes the people I think will represent those ideals don't,  a politician that lies....imagine that.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2007, 02:49:34 PM »
Doxie claimed to be straight?  THAT I simply must see.

link please?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2007, 02:52:41 PM »
You stated your opinion Grinch, and now I'll state mine. You are humorless and dry, which in turn allows sarcasm and irony to fly right over your head. You point out your many attributes but your posts reflect the direct opposite. You have never said a kind word about anyone, to anyone, in any of your posts. Say anything you want about me because it just confirms my OPINION of your lack of character and what truly is the content of your heart. Your comparison of your hurt feelings to Matty's bashing are there for all to read and it is too late for you to make excuses. My final OPINION, I do think you are homophobic. I think you have never come to grips with the guilt you feel having acquired the "gay plague" and instead choose at every opportunity to belittle and chide men who are comfortable with their sexuality. Mind you, this is my OPINION. Your obsession with trying to make homosexuals the villians in all this, in my OPINION is just a reflection of your own self-loathing.


edited for typo

« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 04:11:29 PM by Dachshund »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2007, 02:54:03 PM »
Doxie claimed to be straight?  THAT I simply must see.

link please?

I would like to see that too...if I said it, do you think anyone would think I was joking?

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2007, 02:56:19 PM »
I would like to see that too...if I said it, do you think anyone would think I was joking?

Of course you would have been joking dear, but I'd still like to see it so that I can have a hearty chuckle.  It's so funny that Grinch pulls this out as some sort of magical silver bullet to support his argument, though hardly surprising.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2007, 03:12:09 PM »

I asked for a clarification of the rules.  I asked that they be applied fairly. I got instead a moderator implying I'm a wife beater and a vocal group upset because I dare ask for equality for everyone.



Grinch,

It's comments from you like the one above that result in no one taking you seriously.

No where on this forum has a moderator ever implied you are a wife beater.

Ann

PS - This thread is very close to being locked. I hope no time outs result.

And no, Grinch, that isn't directed at you personally. It's directed at the entire forum membership.

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Offline sweetasmeli

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2007, 03:21:11 PM »
Doxie claimed to be straight?

Actually yes. I remember that because at the time my PMHA (Pos Male Hetero Antanae) went up when I read it. I was bitterly disappointed to be informed (possibly by Hal or Matty, I forget) that it was in fact a joke...especially after seeing the photos...to quoteth my dear mum: Hubba hubba! ;D

Miss Melia
(who thinks Hal's a hottie :-*)
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Yeia kai hara (health and happiness) to everyone!

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2007, 03:26:44 PM »
Yes, we'd all like to see pictures of Hal.  For some reason when I think of her I think of Stax Records, but that's just me.  "Melting Pot" specifically.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2007, 03:29:01 PM »
Actually, now I'm really angry. Call me what you will Grinch, Nancy-boy, fairy, girly-man, poofter, butt bandit, rump ranger, Liberace, sissy or queer, but don't you ever, ever, ever, sully my reputation by calling me straight. ;D


See how I did that? I put a big grinning face at the end to indicate humor. I don't want this post used against me ten years from now. ;D See I did it again...I'm funny.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 03:40:08 PM by Dachshund »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2007, 03:31:17 PM »
Yes, we'd all like to see pictures of Hal.  For some reason when I think of her I think of Stax Records, but that's just me.  "Melting Pot" specifically.


My bestest friend in the world runs the Stax Museum. A must see if you visit.

Edited to add this. Just so everyone will know what we are talking about.
http://www.soulsvilleusa.com/

Actually my friend Tim is communications Manager for Stax
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 03:35:30 PM by Dachshund »

Offline Iggy

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2007, 03:34:53 PM »
I'm straight

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2007, 03:36:03 PM »
I'm straight


straight to the next guy ;D

Offline Iggy

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2007, 03:38:23 PM »
I SAID I WAS STRAIGHT

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2007, 03:39:55 PM »

My bestest friend in the world runs the Stax Museum. A must see if you visit.

Edited to add this. Just so everyone will know what we are talking about.
http://www.soulsvilleusa.com/

Actually my friend Tim is communications Manager for Stax

omg... I should have known you would not disappoint.  Color me horribly impressed!
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline sweetasmeli

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2007, 03:43:43 PM »
I SAID I WAS STRAIGHT

Yes dear. Your pants are also on fire too.

Miss Melia ;)
(whose antanae is working better nowadays and who also knows stuff)
/\___/\       /\__/\
(=' . '=)    (=' . '=)
(,,,_ ,,,)/   (,,,_ ,,,)/ Cats rule!

The difference between cats and dogs is that dogs come when called, whereas cats take a message and get back to you.

Yeia kai hara (health and happiness) to everyone!

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Clarification Please
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2007, 03:56:01 PM »
omg... I should have known you would not disappoint.  Color me horribly impressed!

It gets better. My best friend in high school was a dude named Felton Pilate, founding member of the band Con Funk Shun. They made a soul Hajj to Memphis to study and learn from the masters, the Bar Kays. I was going to post their vid in the disco thread, but I think they are more funk than disco. My friend Felton is singing lead vocals. If your interested Grinch I am willing to share my experiences with you of growing up black. ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NbRsAz9_es

 


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