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Author Topic: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers  (Read 12663 times)

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Offline Andy Velez

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #50 on: July 25, 2007, 08:49:36 AM »
This is gross, disgusting, stupid and if it goes into effect promises to be yet another enduring residually problematic result of this accursed administration. Once this kind of policy goes into effect it becomes extremely difficult to reverse it.

Initially the ban of HIV+ travelers to the U.S. was simply by presidential order. But then it was attached on to some Federal legislation and became law, signed by Bill Clinton, to his eternal shame.

And not one political person seems to have the integrity or the courage these days to be talking or advocating having that law reversed.  

What we're talking about here is the further insidious erosion of EVERYONE's rights in the land of the free...

 
Andy Velez

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #51 on: July 25, 2007, 09:15:34 AM »
philly:

Do you honestly believe our disgusting, immoral U.S. government doesn't know that you and I are fags?  Do you really believe they don't know we are HIV-infected?  After all the recent invasion-of-privacy scandals that have recently been reported by our cowardly and intimidated journalists (phone records, e-mails, subscription lists)--which means there's a hell of a lot more we don't know about--isn't it more than a little naive at this depressing, sorry time to doubt for one second that they've got a little list and are checking it twice?  Accuse me of paranoia, but, remember, when the truth finally all comes out--if it ever does--I warned anyone who would listen.

It is perhaps a sign of how satanically bewitched the American populace is that the loudest objectors in this link are the non-Americans and that the Americans are the ones here who are defensive and protesting that all of this is a tempest in a teacup.  How horrific that so many of our fellow U.S. citizens are failing to fight against the loss of the basic principles embedded in the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights and fail to see or believe what is happening.   I worry greatly that we are really are doomed...and I do not doubt for a second that this diatribe of mine here is recorded by the NSA.  

Yeah, I don't think there's a database with my name that also says "Sodomite & AIDS Schmuck" but whatever, even if it DID say this I don't see the US government rounding all of us up and putting us in containment camps.

Anyway, if the government doesn't have the actual database of my medical diagnosis, assuredly it's floating around on numerous OTHER databases at insurance companies, etc.  Personally I just don't buy into all of this "OMGOMGWE'REINSECRETDATABASES" bullshit.

Basically I just could care less if the government knows I'm gay and HIV+.  In fact, if it makes anyone happy I'll be glad to compose an official letter notifying them of this fact voluntarily.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline edfu

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #52 on: July 25, 2007, 09:18:51 AM »
They already know.
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2007, 09:20:57 AM »
yet you have no proof of this
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline mjmel

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2007, 09:38:42 AM »
This is gross, disgusting, stupid and if it goes into effect promises to be yet another enduring residually problematic result of this accursed administration. Once this kind of policy goes into effect it becomes extremely difficult to reverse it.

Initially the ban of HIV+ travelers to the U.S. was simply by presidential order. But then it was attached on to some Federal legislation and became law, signed by Bill Clinton, to his eternal shame.

And not one political person seems to have the integrity or the courage these days to be talking or advocating having that law reversed.  

What we're talking about here is the further insidious erosion of EVERYONE's rights in the land of the free...

Oh man. I'm in shock. Thanks for the informative post, Andy. I had no idea Bill signed this law into effect. Why didn't I know this? No matter. He loses his elevated status with me. I always held him in esteem because he tried hard to get gays in the military to be accepted openly. Now why did he turn and do some shit like this? Again, no matter. It's history now. And law.
Damn.
xxx,
Mike

Offline pozattitude

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2007, 10:32:38 AM »
I had no idea Bill signed this law into effect. Why didn't I know this? No matter. He loses his elevated status with me. I always held him in esteem because he tried hard to get gays in the military to be accepted openly. Now why did he turn and do some shit like this? Again, no matter. It's history now. And law.
Damn.
xxx,
Mike

I voted for Bill both times he ran.  Although I do like he man, I am very disapointed at his score card when it comes to HIV and AIDS.  He could have done more, a lot more. :(


Rich
(who still loves Bill, but isn't sure about Hillary) :-\
POSITIVE PEDALERS... We are a group of people living with HIV/AIDS, eliminating stigma through our positive public example.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2007, 11:29:41 AM »
pozattitude, presidents can't do anything except declare war, other than that they are a figure head for our government. All laws and legislation is done by congress. Yes, the president has veto powers but the congress can over-ride a veto, except that of war. 

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2007, 12:44:35 PM »
I thought the Freemasons controlled everything!
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline RapidRod

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2007, 12:47:38 PM »
ROFL, I watched that too Phily. It was interesting.

Offline Dragonette

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2007, 01:48:06 PM »
I thought the Freemasons controlled everything!

Everything except us Jews who are use them as a convenient cover en route to complete world domination.

BTW that Bee Gee avatar is just so dominant and exploding with unleashed masculinity that it's very hard to focus on your actual words Philly.
"If you keep one foot in yesterday, and one in tomorrow, you piss all over today". Betty Tacy

Offline poz1970

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #60 on: July 25, 2007, 06:49:57 PM »
I'm still waiting for an explanation of how any government knows everyone's sexual orientation.

For instance, where i live in australia (south australia), hiv is a notifiable disease, my name is on a government register of people who have hiv... maybe there is something similar to this in the US? (or portions of?)

(albeit, this list is meant to be stored on a non-networked computer in a locked room.. but yer, I don't believe that :-(

J
"The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to  heterosexuals. That doesn`t mean that God doesn`t love heterosexuals. It`s just that they need more supervision." -- Lynn Lavne

Offline pozattitude

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2007, 06:57:07 PM »
the US government has always kept a record with the department of health. They were the first to call me when I tested positive and they were pushy assholes, let me tell you.
They wanted to come to my home, and have a detailed history of my sexual life. They kept calling me for a month until I finally told the to FUCK OFF and leave me alone.

Rich
(who at least is glad that he has nothing to hide)
POSITIVE PEDALERS... We are a group of people living with HIV/AIDS, eliminating stigma through our positive public example.

Offline newbernswiss

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2007, 07:38:22 PM »
I'm saddened to read and hear that we again are fair game for the Republican Party here in the United States. I just don't know how United we really are....As a Floridan, when Bush won the election for president I vowed never to vote again, why, he and his brother JEB did as they wanted...they hate gays and they hate anything that has to do with sex and HIV. I only hope that the current generation continues to grow and stand up against such hate.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #63 on: July 25, 2007, 07:58:58 PM »
For instance, where i live in australia (south australia), hiv is a notifiable disease, my name is on a government register of people who have hiv... maybe there is something similar to this in the US? (or portions of?)

(albeit, this list is meant to be stored on a non-networked computer in a locked room.. but yer, I don't believe that :-(

J

Irrelevant in regards to sexual orientation, unless you believe HIV = gay, or worse that gay = HIV.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 08:01:15 PM by philly267 »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline pozguy75

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2007, 08:08:37 PM »
here is my take...the government does know i am HIV poz...the local health department here in Charlotte, NC routinely searches medical records to identify anyone with HIV. I was asked to come in sign an affidavit that if I am caught having unprotected sex I can go to jail. So, don't tell me that they aren't looking into your "private" medical records or looking into your lives...
Dx 2005
ATRIPLA

Offline Basquo

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #65 on: July 25, 2007, 08:15:19 PM »
how satanically bewitched the American populace is

You just lost all credibility with me. How dare you lump every single American into your little category! Some Americans are very tuned in to what is happening, but choose to stay calm and relaxed about it because they don't want the added stress that comes with this whole doom-and-gloom-and-you'll-never-suck-cock-again attitude.

Offline Iggy

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #66 on: July 25, 2007, 08:34:16 PM »
Irrelevant in regards to sexual orientation, unless you believe HIV = gay, or worse that gay = HIV.

But that is the exact point of the worry here.  Yes I fully agree nothing is proven and this is all a big maybe, but we do know that sexual orientation information info is among the items that is being given to the DHS (regardless of what they say they will do with it).

And as far as it not being used by the DHS - does it make any sense that they want it or will accept it.  You can not tell me that the DHS will find it easier to sort and filter out data that they don't have any interest in vs. asking the EU not to include it in the first place - that makes no sense from a systems analyst point of view.

My question therefore remains: what rationale reason can any of us come up with for this information being included or wanted?

Offline Grinch

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #67 on: July 25, 2007, 08:35:26 PM »
So what I have to believe based on the responses here is the following:
  • Most of you believe  the President writes and passes laws
  • Most of you believe DHS is controlled solely by the President
  • Some how you interpret the article in the OP as saying the President asked the EU for this information
  • Most of you fail to understand that there is a Democratic majority in both house and senate.

Folks Bush is a lame duck, he has very little power.  He can't get supreme Court Justices pushed through, he can't ask congress to enact a law without expectation that it will be challenged.
His only real power lies with war in Iraq or anywhere else he choses to declare war.  Other than that and the threat of veto he's got nothing.
It's time to find a new target to blame all the ills of the world upon.  Bush is done and effectively powerless. 
Where will all this anger be directed in another year?

Personally I'd be asking leaders of the EU why they agreed to provide detailed information to anyone.

Offline Carolann

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2007, 09:05:42 PM »
As far as the federal government knowing if you are HIV+, that is a given if you receive any type of government assistance for treatment or purchase of meds. Organizations must report identities of those they are serving tor get funds from the Federal government. They used to report cases without disclosing personal data but that has changed. You can still choose to test anonymously, but if you are low income you must sacrifice anonymity to get treatment.

People with private health insurance are a bit more protected, but who knows what happens to our data once it enters computers. Now there are a lot people who are out of the closet in terms of HIV status and sexual orientation. That is their right, but it is also the right of others to want this information to remain confidential, for endless reasons. Why is this so unreasonable? Why must we continue to give away our privacy and our freedoms. As Bill Maher said the only part of our Freedom that has remained intact, is the right to bear arms, and the right not to have to quarter a British soldier, pathetic really.

CA




Offline pozattitude

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2007, 09:08:32 PM »

His only real power lies with war in Iraq or anywhere else he chooses to declare war. 


BINGO....and guess what, the United States is at war and because of that the lame duck is using "the state of war" to do what he wants without needing to go through the legislative process.
He signed a bill just this past May that will allow him absolute power if he calls for a "state of emergency" if he feels that the country is at risk of being attacked.
So, you see, although the forefathers purposely created the current system of check and balances, the lame duck and his powerful friends have manage to do exactly as they wish.
Yes, I am afraid of what could happen and that is why I can't look the other way. 
I am only 1 person, but I still use my voice and I write and call my senator ,congressman and all who represent me in Washington and here in California weekly to let them know I feel.
after all I am "We the People", they work for me, my tax dollars pay their salaries and I won't let them slack off.

Rich
(who asks for impeachment on a daily basis)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 09:10:04 PM by pozattitude »
POSITIVE PEDALERS... We are a group of people living with HIV/AIDS, eliminating stigma through our positive public example.

Offline edfu

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2007, 09:15:11 PM »
http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/2011/81/

I urge RapidRod, Grinch, and any others who remain blissfully unaware of how the current administration has become an Imperial Presidency to catch up on the news and read this link, which is an excellent summary.  Such citizens obviously do not know of Bush's claims to a "unitary executive" and his "signing statements" attached to every single law passed by Congress, where he alone determines whether he will obey the law.  And Basquo's determination to remain "calm and relaxed" while our democracy becomes a dictatorship is tragic and shows only too clearly how we've come to this miserable state of affairs.    
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Basquo

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2007, 09:45:42 PM »
 And Basquo's determination to remain "calm and relaxed" while our democracy becomes a dictatorship is tragic and shows only too clearly how we've come to this miserable state of affairs.    

Thank you for directing it at me and not lumping a whole bunch of people in there.  But who's this "we"?  You got someone in your pocket?

But seriously, you may see my determination as tragic but I don't.  I much prefer looking at the beauty in things, and not dwell on things that might get me or my blood pressure riled up (and I said "not dwell" I didn't say "ignore" which is how I got this far into the thread.) I don't want to die clutching my heart while screaming at the TV, I want to die while working in the garden.  

But every now and again something really pisses me off, and in this case it was you mixing religion and state and saying it applied to everyone.  And I had to reply to that one.  I mean, come on, "satanically bewitched?" You were holding your own until you tossed that gem out there.

Basquo the Calm and Relaxed

Offline Grinch

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2007, 09:49:04 PM »
Quote
He signed a bill

And bills originate where?

Offline edfu

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2007, 09:58:47 PM »
Sorry, Basquo, I obviously meant that your approach was a single example of a much larger phenomenon. 

"We" = the citizens of the former democracy U.S.A., whose form of government was established by the now-violated Constitution and Bill of Rights. 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 10:03:23 PM by edfu »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Grinch

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #74 on: July 25, 2007, 10:01:20 PM »
http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/2011/81/

I urge RapidRod, Grinch, and any others who remain blissfully unaware of how the current administration has become an Imperial Presidency to catch up on the news and read this link, which is an excellent summary.  Such citizens obviously do not know of Bush's claims to a "unitary executive" and his "signing statements" attached to every single law passed by Congress, where he alone determines whether he will obey the law.  And Basquo's determination to remain "calm and relaxed" while our democracy becomes a dictatorship is tragic and shows only too clearly how we've come to this miserable state of affairs.   

Really, we haven't become a dictatorship.  The democrats control House and Senate.  If Bush doesn't step down when his term is up I'll be first in line with weapon in hand to take back my country, but really, who will you who blame the ills of the world on besides this one man in a year?  Why not ask the leaders of the EU why they willingly give up this information?  Are you so blinded by hate that you abandon all logic?

And really quoting the atlanticfree press is about as reasonable as quoting Ann Coulter.  Congress hold the power to counter anything Mr Bush wants why not hold them a bit responsible?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 10:03:00 PM by Grinch »

Offline Basquo

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #75 on: July 25, 2007, 10:09:22 PM »
Look, when "We" get tired of it we'll go to the polls.  Until Election Day, I choose not to let it consume me.  I have better and more beautiful business to attend to. And this is a beautiful country.  No President or "dictator" can turn the big blue sky black without killing us all, and in that case it wouldn't matter anyway. We'd have harps to play and old friends to catch up with.

Offline edfu

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #76 on: July 25, 2007, 10:18:21 PM »
Yes, Congress is SUPPOSED to "hold the power to counter anything Mr Bush wants," but how can it do this when he does things in secret and refuses to tell them?  How can it do this when he declares in his "signing statements" to every single bill pased by Congress that if he feels he cannot follow a law they have passed and he has SIGNED, he is free to ignore that law?  His signing of a bill into law now means nothing.  Why do you think the Senate Judiciary Committee just issued citations of contempt of Congress against two of Bush's aides because they refuse to testify before the committee?    

Not so by the way...bills originate in Congress through unilateral action by a member(s) of Congress or through a member(s) of Congress agreeing to sponsor a bill the President wants passed because of his legislative program.  Hundreds of laws have been passed by Congress via a President urging that they do so.  
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline RapidRod

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #77 on: July 25, 2007, 10:32:58 PM »
edfu, it nice that living here in the US you can rant and rave about the government. Try living elsewhere. Try ranting and raving in Cuba or Venezuela or Russia and see where that gets you. In the US we are not controlled by a dictatorship, we vote every four years. No matter what our government does not everyone will be pleased with. There are some that it wouldnít matter what was done they wouldnít be happy.

Offline edfu

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #78 on: July 25, 2007, 10:48:39 PM »
I am "ranting and raving" about an executive branch of government that in secrecy and in subterfuge and in lying has given itself more power than that granted by the U.S. Constitution, completely destroying our tripartite governance with the legislative branch and the judiciary.  This is an order of magnitude infinitely higher than and completely different from "ranting and raving," for example, about the government's taxation policies or its environmental policies.  I am discussing nothing less than a coup d'etat. 
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline otherplaces

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #79 on: July 25, 2007, 10:55:53 PM »
Edfu,

Ease down.  Geez.  We know Bush is a shitty president.  He's also a lame duck. 

I've voted ever since I was 18, and I work 8 to 10 hour days at an ASO, but according to you I'm just a sheep being led to slaughter.  OK, whatever.

brian

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #80 on: July 26, 2007, 12:24:29 AM »
There's a HUGE difference between concern about signing statements and assertions of a unitary executive and hysteria that the federal government is snooping about my subscriptions to Honcho -- sorry.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline fearless

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Re: U.S. to screen visitors for HIV status by checking pink papers
« Reply #81 on: July 26, 2007, 02:42:03 AM »
Man, has this thread gone right off track or what!

The EU (edit: it's actually the airline passing on information you have provided when booking your ticket) will not be passing on any personal information to the DHS - the EU privacy laws will not allow it, and the last agreement was tossed out by the EU Court of Appeal for this very reason.

The concern is that if your email address and credit card details are passed on (which is what is being proposed) then the DHS has the potential to snoop and find other information about you. But, given the millions of people who visit the US each year, I imagine they would only even bother if your name somehow pops up elsewhere as been a 'person of interest'. And, as Ann pointed out, tracking stuff from say here would most likely require a court order or the like.

This is about preventing terrorism, not keeping track of us dirty sodomites.

Storm in a teacup, I say.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2007, 05:03:13 AM by fearless »
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

 


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