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Author Topic: Oral sex and HIV  (Read 19818 times)

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Offline OralFear

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Oral sex and HIV
« on: July 19, 2007, 05:31:48 AM »
I wonder if anyone can give me their opinion on my exposure and if you think I need to have an HIV test.  I want to know if oral sex between two woman is risky for HIV transmission?  This girl that I've been seeing for a couple of months now has informed me that she's actually been with a couple of men too.  The only thing we did when we were together was have oral sex - both giving and receiving.  Is this what they call a risky activity?  I've heard so many conflicting reports that yes it is and no it isn't.
We were both not menstrating at that point in time, so there was no blood involved, but what about vaginal fluids - is that not a high risk?

Offline OralFear

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Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2007, 05:33:37 AM »
I wonder if anyone can give me their opinion on my exposure and if you think I need to have an HIV test.  I want to know if oral sex between two woman is risky for HIV transmission?  This girl that I've been seeing for a couple of months now has informed me that she's actually bi and has had a couple of men too.  The only thing we did when we were together was have oral sex - both giving and receiving.  Is this what they call a risky activity?  I've heard so many conflicting reports that yes it is and no it isn't.
I read on one of the websites about a woman to woman HIV transmission - is this not true?  Isn't a woman's precum also infected if she is HIV positive?
We were both not menstrating at that point in time, so there was no blood involved, but what about vaginal fluids - is that not a high risk?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2007, 05:44:06 AM »
The one story you read could not be varified and no it is not a risk.

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2007, 05:52:38 AM »
Thank you ... I went on to the cdc website and it says that oral sex is a risk - please explain to me what they mean as I've heard so many conflicting reports that I don't know what to believe anymore. 

Offline minhnguyen

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2007, 05:55:56 AM »
Dear OralFear,
You can read this document and know clearly about this issue.
Hope that you'll feel very well after read it.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2007, 05:59:57 AM »
minh, do not post in any other thread other than your own.

Offline OralFear

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Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2007, 06:20:53 AM »
Thank you for the information.  It all sounds pretty technically, but what I could understand was this:
Raiteri et al (1994) 18 serodiscordant lesbian couples practising unprotected oral sex studied for 3 months. No seroconversion - There was no risk of transmission
I'm I right in assuming that oral sex between two woman has never happened and not a cause for concern?  If it was to be transmitted between two woman .... how could and would this happen?
Sorry, but I'm quiet naive when it comes to HIV and how it is transmitted.


Offline Ann

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2007, 06:46:35 AM »
OF,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.

When hiv is transmitted between two women, it is usually because they've been sharing drug injecting equipment. Don't share needles with your girlfriend and you'll be fine.

Hiv is not transmitted through sexual relations between two women.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2007, 07:07:39 AM »
Thank you Ann about merging my threads and your help.  So, basically what you're saying is that HIV through oral sex isn't possible between two woman?  If it were to happen, please explain to me how it does?  Sorry, but trying to keep myself safe and really quite naive about HIV and it's transmissions, symptoms ... etc.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2007, 07:19:09 AM »
Reread Ann's reply again. She states how it can happen.

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2007, 09:50:31 AM »
WELL .... I don't do drugs, so what you're saying is that all should be okay and there is no need for me to get an HIV test?  If it ever happened with a woman - how would it besides sharing needles?


Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2007, 10:23:52 AM »
Reread Ann's reply again.

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2007, 10:52:56 AM »
I have read it RapidRod, but I know there are alot of lesbian's out there that are HIV positive.  What I want to know besides injecting themselves with needles .... how else do they become infected?  You mean to tell me that if we're both not using drugs - there is no possible way for us to contract HIV?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2007, 10:58:01 AM »
Then your lesbian friends are shacking it with the males also. Even if you lesbian friend was positive you would not contract it unless as Ann has said, "Used IV drugs together using the same works."

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2007, 11:23:21 AM »
Oral, I always look askance at undocumented statements like "there are a lot of lesbians out there who are HIV+."

What has been shown repeatedly is that most commonly lesbians who are HIV+ and are not IV drug users, have become infected through unprotected intercourse with men. While theoretically HIV could be transmitted say during oral sex while an HIV+ female is menstruating or otherwise bleeding, in the real world of HIV science it just doesn't happen that way.

You are working your nerves needlessly over this issue is how I see it.

Cheers, 
Andy Velez

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2007, 02:03:09 AM »
Thank you Andy and RapidRod for your comments ... It does make me feel alot better!  Safe to say, but none of us were menstruating at that point in time and 'bleeding' - not sure what you meant by that?
What about having oral sex with dental problems ... is that not a need of concern?  I couple of days before I had root canel treatment, so my mouth wasn't in the greatest of condition.  Would that change things? 

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2007, 06:56:29 AM »
OF,

If there were situations where cunnilingus was a risk, we'd tell you. Cunnilingus is NOT a risk for hiv infection, period, end of story.

I deleted the two posts you made in a thread in one of the "positive people only" forums. Make sure you read the Welcome Thread found at the top of this forum and take heed of our forum posting guidelines. If you persist in posting in other forums, you will be given a time out.

Ann

PS - and by the way, I don't know where you're getting this information about "a lot" of lesbians being hiv positive. Lesbians have the LOWEST number of hiv infections in any demographic group.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 06:58:22 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2007, 07:02:12 AM »
Hi Ann, I do apologise but didn't understand the 'terms and conditions' - will ensure not to post anymore threads there.

Can I ask you something Ann .... have you got any medical expierence, facts and knowledge about HIV and the way it's transmitted? 

You say ... If there were situations where cunnilingus was a risk, we'd tell you. - please elaborate

Thank you

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2007, 07:12:10 AM »
OF,

As a person living with hiv myself, I have carefully researched the subject of hiv transmission because I want to make sure that my virus stops with me.

My hiv negative partner and I have been together for eight years and yet he remains hiv negative. I don't just talk the talk about transmission, I walk the walk too - and so does my partner. We have full sex life and the only precaution we take is to use condoms for intercourse.

How can I elaborate on a simple statement? If there were situations in which cunnilingus were a risk, we'd tell you. Cunnilingus is not a risk for hiv infection, no matter what sort of spin you want to put on it.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2007, 07:15:56 AM »
Ann, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart!!!
You've not only put my mind to rest but hopefully I can get on with my life now and protect myself with what you have taught me.  My thoughts, prayers and heart are with you - keeping smilling and encouraging people because without you ... we'd all be booked into a mental hospital.


Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2007, 02:46:17 AM »
PLEASE GUYS I NEED YOUR HELP ON THIS ONE!  THIS IS WHAT ANDY'S RESPONSE TO ME WHY ... IS THIS TRUE?

Hi OralFear,,

Im sorry for contactibg you in this way but I understand what you are going through because of the lack of official stats relating to HIV transmission through oral sex.

What I can say is that I am appalled at some of the responces and will be making my own views very clear indeed.

Firstly, if you are worried about contracting this virus you should get tested , it really is as simple as that, especialy because you have stated that your partner has admitted to seeing men as well. Secondly, I will tell you that just because there are very dubious stats regarding HIV transmission through Oral sex IT DOES HAPPEN. Yes the risks are very low and but there are risks and I can say this because I know.

I was infected by performing oral sex on my g/f at the time. The things we did not know about are the things we did not know about.

We used to "freshen up" beforte sex, we would both brush our teeth, and all that, now as you know if your brush to hard, your gums can bleed, also, we found that the way that oral sex is carried out can have an impact,, as can the level of virus in the partners blood at the time, my g/f had a high viral load at the time, and because im not fussy about getting a mouth full (sorry for the crudeness) the oppertunities for infection are there.

I hope that you understand what Im saying, PLEASE take what is said in these forums as advice, as far as Im aware, no one in here is a trained HIV specialist, so why certain people are saying it cannot be caught from "going down" on a female amazes me.

I was diagnosed in 2005 and I can say for sure that this is the way I caught it because I knew my g/f was poz at the time and we made every effort in what we knew to practise safe sex. I NEVER PENETRATED HER WITHOUT A CONDOM.

Please see your doctor and get tested, once tested you should be offered councilling this is the time to ask any question you may have and the experts will be able to tell you the reality of your question, "risky" yes, but very very low, but still possible.

I hope I havent scared you with this mail but i would rather you knew that it is possible from some one who knows. ANYONE  that says NO  it cant be passed that way is wrong.

If you want to chat more please just get in touch,, all the best

Andy


Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2007, 02:57:16 AM »
He says he's infected. How he got infected is questionable at the most. He can say what he wants. But scientific studies refutes him. We apply information based on scientific studies, not peer review.

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2007, 05:46:00 AM »
OF,

There is one thing this Andy person is correct about - if you have doubts about your hiv status, then test. We've told you this already.

What we don't know about Andy is - he may have had protected intercourse with this particular girlfriend, but has he always had protected intercourse every time in his life, with every person? I'm betting the answer to that is NO.

I'm sure he probably truly believes he was infected this way, but as Rodney says, the documented science doesn't support his claim.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2007, 01:59:24 AM »
Hi Teak and Ann,
I suppose he could say that he was infected this way as many people don't only practice oral sex but have intercourse too.  I'm hoping that this isn't the reason why he got infected and I can put my mind to rest and believe that I'm safe in what I did.  Are there any documented cases of HIV infection via oral sex that you know of?

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2007, 05:43:58 AM »
OF,

Not when the oral sex being discussed is cunnilingus. There have been cases in the past where this is what was claimed, but it always turned out that there were other factors involved - such as unprotected intercourse or needle sharing - that the person didn't admit to at first. There has never, in over 25 years of this pandemic, been a case where cunnilingus was proven to be the transmission route. Not one.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2007, 06:05:43 AM »
It's really sad in a way that people are not truly honest about how they actually contracted HIV .... it gives us false hope and untrue figures.  He really gave me quite a scare and made me doubt everyones ability and information here on Medhelp and Aidsmeds.  Basically what you're saying Ann is that there is no reason for me to pursue this matter any longer as my risk for contracting HIV from one sexual encounter with another woman is not risky at all and no need for me to test?  I've never used drugs and I've never had unprotected intercourse (only oral) with this lady.  Do you think it's safe to say that I'm in the clear?

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2007, 06:11:34 AM »
OF,

Yes, that's what we've all been telling you for days now.

The bottom line is that if you cannot bring yourself to believe us, test, collect your negative result, and move on with your life.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2007, 07:37:01 AM »
A BIG THANK YOU Ann and I'm sorry if I kept going on about this and if I've been an absolute pain of myself!  Will try and get through this and get on with my life.
Take care and God Bless you for all the wonderful work and advice you're giving.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2007, 09:06:24 AM »
Just for clarification for yourself and for other readers, the Andy who inappropriately pm'd you with that alarming and questionable "information" is Andy 101 and not me.

Thought I ought to post this just to avoid any confusion. I fully support Ann's comments to you and I don't see any sound basis in HIV science for you to be further concerned at this time.

Cheers, 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 09:08:18 AM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2007, 10:01:48 AM »
Hi Andy .... no problem as I did realise it wasn't you and this message from the other 'Andy' come through to me as a PM.  Not sure why he even did that - maybe he's too scared to be questioned on how he actually contracted HIV and just wanted to scare the living daylights out of me - which he did!  I'm hoping what you and Ann have told me is your honest to goodness truth and that I can finally put this nightmare behind me and not even worry about getting tested.  Do you think this is what it boils down too - anxiety and nothing else?

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2007, 07:57:54 AM »
OF,

Anxiety can cause a person all sorts of problems. You might want to consider counseling so you can learn ways of managing your anxiety levels.

If it takes getting tested to put this to rest, then go ahead and test, collect your negative result and move on. Any sexually active adult should be tested as a matter of ROUTINE anyway. I fully expect your test to return negative results, should you decide to test.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2007, 10:38:20 AM »
Thank you Ann.  I'm sure this is all part of the anxiety and worry that is building up inside me.  From the advice that you and Andy have given me, I'm not even going to bother testing - afterall you said that there is no risk involved with oral sex between woman.  I need to put this behind me, get on with life and just enjoy what I have at the moment.  Thank you both for all your time, patience and help.

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2007, 09:46:43 AM »
NOW I'M REALLY CONFUSED!!  This is the report back I got from the CDC on oral sex and HIV transmission.  I thought they were the experts on HIV and transmission but everyone here keeps telling me that I've got nothing to worry about.  You're responses would be great!!

Thank you for contacting us with your follow-up questions. 
Yes, it is possible for either partner to become infected with HIV through performing or receiving oral sex. There have been a few cases of HIV transmission from performing oral sex on a person infected with HIV. While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, evidence suggests that the risk is less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex.  Please see this CDC web site about women who have sex with women and HIV http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/women/resources/factsheets/wsw.htm.

I do not have a medical background.  Please see your doctor about testing.  Here is a good site regarding testing: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/testing/qa.htm.

Please see our web site, www.cdcnpin.org for further information.  If you have further questions, please contact the CDC Information Line by email at cdcinfo@cdc.gov or by phone at 800-232-4636. 

I hope this is helpful.  Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. 

 

Offline englishgirl

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2007, 11:52:52 AM »
Hi there

If you read the cdc report that the respondent links to you can see it says:
- here are no confirmed cases of female-to-female sexual transmission of HIV in the United States database
- Of the 534 (of 7,381) women who were reported to have had sex only with women, 91% also had another risk factor—typically, injection drug use.
- HIV-infected women whose only initially reported risk factor is sex with women are given high priority for follow-up investigation. As of December 2004, none of these investigations had confirmed female-to-female HIV transmission, either because other risk factors were later identified or because some women declined to be interviewed.
- A study of more than 1 million female blood donors found no HIV-infected women whose only risk factor was sex with women.

the cdc and some doctors are reluctant to say there is 100% no risk because there is a theoretical risk
BUT as you can see they also say that there has been no proven cases - ie in all cases that we no about so far there has been no contraction of hiv in this manner

as an hiv positive woman who cannot face the idea of never receiving oral sex again i asked my hiv doctor the specific question because if there is any risk involved i would not want to put someone at risk. my doctor assured me that i was not putting anyone at risk & showed me medical stats to prove it. furthermore, she stated that at my hospital (dont know about nationwide) someone who asked for PEP due to the fact that they had gone down on a (non-menstruating) poz woman such as myself would not be given it by them due to the fact that the hiv doctors there believe there is not a risk

please feel reassured that you are not at risk

best wishes
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Offline Ann

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2007, 11:54:20 AM »
OF,

That fact sheet you've been linked to tells you that there have not been any confirmed cases, just like we've told you. It goes on to say that there's always been other risk factors involved, just like we've told you.

One thing you need to remember when dealing with the CDC is that they are part of the US government - the same government that puts more money into the discredited Abstinence Only programs than it does proven methods of hiv prevention. The US government doesn't want anyone having sex with anyone outside a traditional, heterosexual marriage. Their information has an anti-homosexual bias and if it takes scare-tactics and fear-mongering to further their moralistic agenda, then that's what they do.

We don't moralise here. We don't have a religious or moralistic agenda. We give you the scientific facts and the facts only.

I'll say it one more time - if you cannot bring yourself to believe us, go test and collect your negative result if that's what it will take for you to believe you have not been at risk.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2007, 02:16:19 PM »
Thank you Englishgirl and Ann .... I really started getting worried and thinking 'just maybe' I've contracted HIV!  I'm sure they have to say that to cover all their bases.  Are you in agreement with everyone else that there is absolutly nothing to worry about regarding transmission of HIV between two women - as there was no blood involved and I was more on the receiving end?

ENGLISHGIRL .... I really want to thank you for taking the time to write to me and helping me understand more about oral sex between two women and the 'risk' of HIV transmission.  It really means alot to me and I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart!  God Bless you!

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2007, 02:18:20 AM »
Thank you all for your kind words, compassion and reassurance you have all shown me.  It really is quite difficult when you get conflicting reports like this one saying on one hand yes it is risky and on another hand no it isn't risky like the post I received from Andy (and no it wasn't Andy Velez)  He's been absolutly wonderful and has not only been very caring, but understanding man too.  I know deep down, I'm probably not infected by HIV and then this creeps into my head when someone as cruel posts these comments to me.  You just don't know who to believe.  I know this statistics are from the USA, but what about South Africa, as that is where I'm from?  I suppose the guilt is making me feel even worse and maybe I should just go and have the test done, put this all behind me as a fantasy I've lived out and enjoy my life.  Rapirod, I read the fact sheet that you Jaguar83, but it also states that HIV transmission through woman is more risky if they're injecting drugs, so if I've never done anything like this before then obviously I should be okay? 

This is what someone posted to me by englishgirl:
If you read the cdc report that the respondent links to you can see it says:
- here are no confirmed cases of female-to-female sexual transmission of HIV in the United States database
- Of the 534 (of 7,381) women who were reported to have had sex only with women, 91% also had another risk factor—typically, injection drug use.

Englishgirl, I want to thank you for your post - it not only reassured me that I've got nothing to worry about but made me see things in a different light.  You always think your situation is alot worse then everyone else until you read someone that is going through it at the moment and is still managing to bring a smile to someone's face!  If you don't mind me asking, but how did you contract HIV?  My thoughts, prayers are with you and I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart!  I hope you find someone as special as you are!

I really do value all of your comments - helps me sleep easier at night!
A BIG THANK YOU TO YOU ALL!

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2007, 05:44:44 AM »
OF,

It's rude to ask people how they became infected. It's nobody's business but their own and if they want to volunteer the information, that's one thing, but don't ask. Like I said, it's rude.

The science of hiv transmission does not change from place to place. It's the same the world over - unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse or sharing drug injecting equipment with someone who is hiv positive. Period. End of story.

If you've read the Welcome Thread like you're supposed to, you would have read the following:

Quote
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Please consider yourself warned. We've repeatedly given you the facts, now it's your turn to deal with them. We cannot do anything more for you here.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2007, 06:06:25 AM »
Hello Ann .... first of all I don't think I was being rude but rather curious as I would like to try and get to know all about HIV, etc as to protect myself and if 'Andy' informed me that this is how he got infected then I'd like to know.  If englishgirl thought I was rude, then I do apologise as it was not my intention!  I've read the Welcome thread over and over again and no where does it state that oral sex is 'safe sex'.  The questions that I pose here are all related to what I've been asked and told, but then someone pipes up with different views and explanations - I'm not sure who to believe any longer.  I think you're absolutly right - the only way is for me to get tested and get on with life!!

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2007, 08:25:05 AM »
There is no such thing as absolutely 100% "safe sex" other than with your own hand. Anytime you have sex with another person there MIGHT be some risk. Theoretically. But in the real world of HIV we know that the essential issue is unprotected vaginal or anal intercourse.

The kind of "curiousity" you're exhibiting about HIV is not about learning. It's about obsessively feeding your fears and leads to nothing good. You've been given solid and straightforward information about transmission.

It's time for you to stop surfing the net for more (dis)information to feed your anxieties. Along with getting tested just to collect the inevitable negative result, if you can't stop this handwringing then I suggest it is time to talk with a counselor or other mental health professional to get support in dealing with what is about feelings and not HIV facts.
 
Andy Velez

Offline OralFear

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2007, 09:16:14 AM »
I suppose you're right.  As soon as I can get a chance and when I find out where the nearest testing centre is ... I'm going to have the test done and get on with life either which way!  I know it's not good for me to keep surfing the net for documented and transmissions of HIV and it's also taken up too much of my valuable time too!  I'm hoping to God that all is okay and that there was nothing to worry about and the advise you've all given me is the honest to goodness truth!  Thank you all for your understanding and I'm sorry if I was a pain in the butt!

Offline Worried Soul

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Worried Soul!
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2007, 06:48:38 AM »
I'm going out of my mind with worry and would really appreciate any expert advice!
I've been seeing my girlfriend for 6 months now and she has just informed me that she's HIV positive.
Since we are both females, I've only ever engaged in oral sex - both receiving and giving.  I've spent hours researching every website pertaining to oral sex and HIV and they keep saying that it's a 'risky activity' even among Lesbians.  I've never noticed any unusual lumps, bumps, discharge or been exposed to blood.  Only ever had oral sex and never used sexual toys.

Do you think this would warrant me having an HIV test done to determine if she's infected me too? 
I still live at home and my parents would be heart broken if I came to them with something like this.
PLEASE ..... help me!

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Worried Soul!
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2007, 06:59:24 AM »
cunnilingus is not a risk for HIV infections. In the history ofthe pandemic, the only group markedly absent from infection have been lesbians. I urge you to read the LESSONS section, as this is explained in great detail.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Worried Soul

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Re: Worried Soul!
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2007, 07:13:08 AM »
Thank you for your prompt reply, but this is the what I've read on the cdc website and the 'lessons' on this website, so I'm a little confused as it doesn't really go into much detail about cunnilingus, lesbians and HIV transmissions.

Yes, it is possible for either partner to become infected with HIV through performing or receiving oral sex. There have been a few cases of HIV transmission from performing oral sex on a person infected with HIV. While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, evidence suggests that the risk is less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex.

If the person performing oral sex has HIV, blood from their mouth may enter the body of the person receiving oral sex through
the lining of the urethra (the opening at the tip of the penis);
the lining of the vagina or cervix;
the lining of the anus; or
directly into the body through small cuts or open sores.
If the person receiving oral sex has HIV, their blood, semen (cum), pre-seminal fluid (pre-cum), or vaginal fluid may contain the virus. Cells lining the mouth of the person performing oral sex may allow HIV to enter their body.

The risk of HIV transmission increases

if the person performing oral sex has cuts or sores around or in their mouth or throat;
if the person receiving oral sex ejaculates in the mouth of the person performing oral sex; or
if the person receiving oral sex has another sexually transmitted disease (STD).
Not having (abstaining from) sex is the most effective way to avoid HIV.


So you can't really say that it's not 'a risk for HIV infection' can you?  There are so many debates on this subject that you don't really know what to believe anymore.  I've always practised 'safe sex' but now I'm really worried that oral sex is something I should be concerned about and especially now that I've learnt she's positive.


Offline Ann

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Re: Worried Soul!
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2007, 07:36:36 AM »
Worried,

Hiv transmission doesn't stand a chance of happening via female genitals to mouth - there are just too many obstacles on the oral route.

The first obstacle is the mouth itself. The mouth is a veritable fortress, standing against all sorts of pathogens we come into contact with every minute of our lives. It's a very hostile environment and saliva has been shown to contain over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv.

Hiv is a very fragile virus - literally. Its outer surface doesn't take kindly to changes in its preferred environment; slight changes in temperature, moisture content and pH levels all damage the outer surface. Importantly, it needs this outer surface to be intact before it can latch onto a few, very specific cell types and infect. 

Which leads to the second obstacle. Hiv can only latch onto certain types of cells, cells which are not found in abundance in the mouth.

The third obstacle to transmission this way is having hiv present in the first place. The female secretion where hiv has been shown to be present is the cervicovaginal fluid. This fluid is actually a thick mucus that covers and protects the cervix.

The fluid a woman produces when sexually excited comes from the Bartholin's glands, located on either side of the vaginal opening. I have yet to discover one shred of evidence (and believe me, I've looked) that shows this lubricating fluid to have any more hiv present than other bodily secretions such as saliva, sweat or tears. Saliva, sweat and tears are NOT infectious fluids.

So there you have it. Once the results of the serodiscordant studies started rolling in, what we know about hiv transmission on the cellular level was validated. The only people who were getting infected were those who had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. Period. One of the three studies went on for ten years and involved hundreds of couples. That's a lot of nookie.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Worried Soul

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Re: Worried Soul!
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2007, 07:57:09 AM »
Thank you Ann for your comments .. it really does help to have such researched advise.
As I'm sure the virus is fragile and doesn't really withstand living outside the body, but if I had mouth problems prior to preforming oral sex on my girlfriend, would this not complicate matters and increase the risk of infection? 

I know you also mentioned
The female secretion where hiv has been shown to be present is the cervicovaginal fluid. This fluid is actually a thick mucus that covers and protects the cervix.

Is it safe to say that this fluid is so far up in the vagina that it could not possible be transmitted while preforming oral sex on her?  Are there any other fluids that could infect me besides this?  I really need to try and understand how, why and where this all stems from!

This is what I read on the 'Doctors Lounge' Website:
The risk of HIV and other sexually transmitted disease through oral sex is reported by many.

Certain practices are suggested to reduce the risk of infection through oral sex. For example physical barriers (like plastic food wrap, a condom cut open, or a dental dam) can prevent transmission of HIV and other STDs


I feel as if I have no where else to turn so I would really appreciate any advise you can give me!!

Offline Ann

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Re: Worried Soul!
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2007, 08:16:06 AM »
Worried,

Can I ask why you are using different usernames while posting to our forums? Thus far, you have also used OralFear

Please realize that this kind of activity is disrespectful of other forum members, as well as our moderators. People spend a considerable amount of time helping others in these forums. Using multiple accounts is at the very least annoying, if not deceiving and disrespectful of others. It is also against our Terms of Membership which you agreed to when you became a member. This information is also contained within the Welcome Thread, which you should have read by now. So really, you have no excuse.

You must realize that the answers won't change, no matter how many names you post under.

I would appreciate a reply to this message, and I hope you will commit to using just one account - preferably your original one. If not, you will be banned from further access to the forums.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Worried Soul

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Re: Worried Soul!
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2007, 08:51:35 AM »
I do apologise Ann but I couldn't remember my old password so I had to open another acccount. 
It is by no means intentional or disrespectful but fear that is driving me crazy without any answers.
I've tried to put this behind me but no this old girlfriend has come back to me with this bombshell.
I have no where to turn and every site that I visit gives me the same answers but nothing like yours.
I'm really just trying to get all the facts together to determine if I need to put myself through anymore fear or heartache.

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2007, 08:56:10 AM »
OF/Worried,

That's no excuse. You should have clicked on the password link available on the log-in page.

I need you to return to your original account, and I'm merging your threads. Your new account will be disabled. If you create another new account, you will be permanently banned.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline OralFear

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Oral sex and HIV
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2007, 09:27:11 AM »
Thank you Ann and once again I apologies if this caused any problems - it certainly wasn't intentional.
Going back to my last question, can you answer this for me as this is what was mentioned on the Lesbian Safer Sex website?

Are Lesbians at Risk for Contracting HIV from Each Other?

Yes!! There have cases reported since the mid 1980's which indicate that women are transmitting HIV (Human Immunodeficiency Virus) to each other.

Despite these reports the Federal Government's Center for Disease Control (CDC) does not include female to female transmission in its AIDS (Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome) reports. Many lesbians mistakenly believe that they are not at risk. HIV is transmitted when blood, vaginal fluids, breast milk or semen from an HIV infected person enters your blood stream.

Lesbians can be infected with HIV through having unsafe sex (with women or men), donor insemination, sharing injectable drug works, piercing, tattooing and blood transfusions.

Because we do know how HIV is transmitted we can define some guidelines for safer sex and explain which risky sexual behaviors are potentially risky.

The Basics

Whether a sexual behavior is safe or unsafe depends on the chances of your partner's bodily fluids coming in contact with your blood.

Wet kissing is safer unless either of you have a sore or cut in your mouth or bleeding gums. After you brush your teeth or floss, wait a half an hour before kissing.

Touching your lover's breast, massage, masturbation and body to body rubbing are safer--as long as there is no blood or breast milk exchanged.

Sores or cuts on the fingers, mouth or vagina of either partner can increase risk during vaginal and anal contact. Using a glove can prevent a way for the virus to get into your blood stream.

Unprotected oral sex is risky, especially when your partner has her period or a vaginal infection. To make it safer, cover her genital area (vulva) with a latex dam (also known as a dental dam) or you can cut open a condom to make a barrier. If a woman is infected, her menstrual blood, vaginal secretions and ejaculate will have the virus in it. HIV has been found in these fluids.


The four levels of risk

NOT RISKY

Massage, Hugging, Fantasy, Voyeurism, Exhibitionism, Masturbation, touching yourself, Vibrators or other sex toys, not shared, Dry Kissing, Body To Body Rubbing or "Tribadism" when fluids are not involved

POSSIBLY RISKY

Wet, French Kissing. Shared hand & genital contact with a barrier such as a fingercot, glove, or latex dam, a square piece of latex. Cunnilingus, Oral-Genital contact using a barrier. Fisting using a barrier

PROBABLY RISKY

Shared hand, finger & genital contact with cuts or sores. Cunnilingus, Oral or Tongue to genital contact without a barrier

VERY RISKY

Cunnilingus without a barrier during menstruation. Female or male ejaculate in the mouth, vagina or anus. Rimming without a barrier Fisting without a barrier such as a glove Sharing sex toys without a barrier. Sharing needles of any kind, to shoot drugs, pierce or tattoo the skin

 


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