Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
Newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr Instagram
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 21, 2014, 11:44:38 PM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 643014
  • Total Topics: 48924
  • Online Today: 252
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online
Users: 4
Guests: 192
Total: 196

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: What is the deal?  (Read 2719 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
What is the deal?
« on: July 16, 2007, 08:02:19 PM »
I've said it once, I've said it a million times, the Queen has a lot to learn when it comes to HIV. Maybe someone here can enlighten me on some things...Today I decided to call the clinic nurse and get the results to my vl since they were not available the day of my appointment.....cd4 is 340 an increase from 261 but my viral load was 13,000 and some change, now that has jumped up to 24,700. I am baffled because I was thinking cd4 goes up viral load goes down but the nurse told me that after looking through results from the past that my cd4 and viral load had both dropped back in March... So I am like wtf? How can this be? Anyone have any insight?
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 9,974
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2007, 08:35:03 PM »
Queen, I always thought that the CD4s were supposed to go up and viral load down, also.  My last test showed that my Ts were 500something and my viral load is 98,000.  It must be a thing lately, to have problems with numbers, because I've talked to a few other poz people who are having problems.  Maybe it's something in the air, who knows.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2007, 11:35:59 PM »
The deal is that you had a nice increase of your CD4  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D and that your viral load hasn't changed. Remember that the viral load is a logarithm, so a 13000 viral load is log 4.11, a 24700 viral load is log 4.39. Anything less than a 1, 1.5 change is not significant. My previous viral load was 27000, now 99000, so it looks scary but the log difference is 4.44 to 4.99, so it's not a big change.

I wouldn't worry about those VL numbers for now, but I would celebrate your CD4 jump!!!

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2007, 02:08:34 AM »
Milker,

Everytime I see your name I think of that sour skittles commercial with the man eating sour skittles and hooked up to a milking machine but the milk is coming out sour cause of him eating the skittles. Just had to mention that.. ;D
Anyhoo.....I thought the greater the vl the more of the virus in your body? Am I wrong in thinking that? Believe me I am happy about the increase in the cd4.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,885
  • the one and original newt
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2007, 04:33:33 AM »
Oh Queen

Yes, you are right, the greater the viral load the more HIV in the body.  Or to be strict, the blood.  Only 2% of HIV is your blood.

Milkie is right, viral load tests have a margin of error of 3, so the range of viral load can be between 3 x more and 3 x less than the result. 

In your case 13,000 means "somewhere between 4,500 and 29,000" and 24,700 means "somewhere between 8,300 and 75,000"

See, it is impossible to compare just 2 viral loads, you need to look at the trend.

13,000 followed by 24,700 suggests a stable infection.  Another +++ viral load would to my mind show an increasing amount of virus

In logs, 13,000 is 4.1 and 24,700 is 4.4, less than half a log different, so not an important one

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline rkeat25

  • Member
  • Posts: 32
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2007, 07:40:07 AM »
I have heard those same sentiments from my doctor about my viral load as well.  My CD4 cells seem to be declining, while my viral load remains the same.  She has mentioned in both of my last two appointments that viral load is no longer used as a method of predicting the course of the infection. 

The bit about logs does help to clear some of it up though.  I personally wouldn't worry because your immune system seems to be gaining and that's a good indicator of health.

~ronnie

Offline gerry

  • Member
  • Posts: 522
  • Joined AM Feb 2003
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2007, 10:10:32 AM »
I have heard those same sentiments from my doctor about my viral load as well.  My CD4 cells seem to be declining, while my viral load remains the same.  She has mentioned in both of my last two appointments that viral load is no longer used as a method of predicting the course of the infection. 


The viral load is actually useful in predicting the rapidity of decline of CD4 counts over time, but you're talking about huge differences in numbers here (in reference to the logarithmic scale).  That is, someone with viral loads >100,000 consistently would be expected to have a relatively faster decline in CD4 counts over time compared to someone whose VL is only hovering at say 10,000 consistently.  The higher viral loads are suggestive of the immune system's inability to contain the virus by itself.

Offline Florida69

  • Member
  • Posts: 428
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2007, 11:19:30 AM »
Queen I have to second that on Milker, that is funny.  I thought I was the only one.. D
Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
Calvin Coolidge

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2007, 01:58:35 PM »
Newt~~~ It's great to hear from you on this, I was hoping you would reply. Only 2% of hiv is in my blood..I wish there was none, of course, but 2% doesn't sound that bad. I actually had all my labs for the past couple of years at one point but got frustrated and threw them away when I couldn't understand what I was seeing. What do you mean by a stable infection? It's not dormant but it's not kicking up a storm either, eh. Do you any hiv for dummies, laying around?  ;D

Florida~~~ Glad to see I am not the only one with a wicked/warped/demented sense of humor.. :D

I will go with what you all are saying. To be infected going on 10 yrs and no med, I still say I must have a pretty mild strain or I smoke so much weed that my hiv is just as high as I am... ;D
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2007, 03:32:00 PM »
lol Queen!! And here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG0zDltjL_o

Stable infection is that the virus keeps multiplying at a rate that your immune system can "control". If you see someone that has the same VL but the CD4s are decreasing, then the immune system is losing grounds. In your case the CD4s have increased, yet the VL is more or less the same, so that's a good sign. Like newt and gerry said, if the trend of the VL is going up to large numbers, even if the CD4s look "good", then the virus is multiplying too fast and the immune system is not strong enough to contain it.

In my case, the next numbers will tell me if the VL is going out of whack (I hope not  >:(), but the last 3 tests have shown it going up and down and up and down, so i have no clue as what to expect.

Sour Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2007, 06:24:43 PM »
Actually the highest my vl has ever been was 85,000 and that was around the begining of the year. My next appointment is on Sept 5.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,399
  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2007, 10:57:04 PM »
Hey Akasha,

Ten years and no meds sounds good to me. I went 11 before jumping on the "Cocktail Cruise."

The amount of virus in your blood is small compared to the other places it hides out, like the brain, nervous system, lymphatic system and especially the gut.

Now, sweetie, how's the sugar doing? You do worry me, you know. Especially with all the "munchies" you must deal with every day!  ;) ;D

BIG HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline joemutt

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,042
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2007, 11:59:24 PM »
Sorry to veer off topic, but I think 10 years and no meds, that's really great.
It's good to be the Queen!

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2007, 01:13:39 AM »
She has a secret.. but I will try to find out in September..

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Queen Tokelove

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,033
  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: What is the deal?
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2007, 08:25:22 PM »
Secrets? Nah, I wish I did. I have no life, so I can't have any.. ;D...All i have been doing is smoking weed, I swear. Maybe my mother blessed me with good genes, oh hell I don't know...As far as my sugar goes, it has gone down a bit, it was 192 but last draw it was down to 136..I have been trying to change what I munch on..I have never really be a sweets fanatic. When I have the munchies I try to eat a salad, avacados, I love them or some watermelon. I know there is no such thing as healthy sugars when it comes to diabetes but I just try to stay away from candy. I wish I could give up pepsi but I just can't. I have tried drinking Vitamin Water which I must admit is very tasty but I can't find them in 6 packs anywhere. Do they come that way or do they pimp you by making you by single bottles? I dunno but I must thank Benj because he is the one who made me aware of them.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.