Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 27, 2014, 07:42:04 PM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 636359
  • Total Topics: 48293
  • Online Today: 204
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?  (Read 10941 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dufusmaximus

  • Member
  • Posts: 34
Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« on: July 14, 2007, 04:20:40 PM »
I just got a shock, I was checking into what my Atripla costs, to see about insurance, etc...Atripla is over $1100 per month!
I live in CA and am on ADAP, which pays for all my meds.  I have never felt so guilty.  That's $1100 a month, every month until I finally die.  I'm not sure if I can deal with that.   If it weren't for ADAP paying 100% of the costs, I would not be taking Atripla.  How can people afford to live, and what about those poor folks in 3rd world countries?

Offline ScottPhxAZ

  • Member
  • Posts: 26
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2007, 04:34:29 PM »
In one word: "NO".

But I'm unsure whether this is a genuine post as I get a feeling I'm about to get drawn into something unexpected and unwanted.
07/06 infected; K103N mutation (excludes non-nukes)
Date  CD4/%      VL
08/06 867/23%  1,000,000+
09/06 646/20%     434,000
10/06 948/24%   1,710,000
02/07 851/23%      439,000
04/07 CD4: 701/23%  VL:    184,000
06/07 CD4: 697/         VL:    202,000
08/07 CD4: 565/19%  VL:    184,000
08/07 Started Truvada+Viracept
11/07 CD4: 769/27%  VL:          181
02/08 CD4: 998/23%  VL:         <48
05/08 CD4: 809/26%  VL:         <48
06/08 Stopped meds while traveling
09/08 CD4: 793/31%  VL:         <48
12/08 CD4: 739/21%  VL:     27,700
02/09 CD4: 60
05/09 CD4: 508/22%  VL:     19,400
08/09 CD4: 358/22%  VL:     62,600
10/09 CD4: 548/26%  VL:         <48
01/10 CD4: 468/28%  VL:         <48
05/10 CD4: 475/34%  VL:         <48

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,310
  • His name is Carl.
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2007, 04:44:41 PM »
Nope.  Not a whit.  Have you taken a gander at Dachshund's "Cost of War" link in his signature line?  The amount of money needed to keep me alive for a year was spent in about 6 seconds.  While not wishing to derail this into some discussion of that venture overseas, the point is that great deals of money get spent every second for all sorts of purposes.  I consider preservation of health and life to be a worthy aim.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Dan J.

  • Guest
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2007, 04:45:50 PM »
No, I don't "feel guilty". Why should I?

My meds cost each month:
Epivir 321.16
Viramune 407.87
Kaletra 1045.42
Invirase  727.53
Prevacid 139.99
Lipitor 78.76

Equals 2,720.28 a month & MY LIFE IS WORTH EVERY PENNY & MORE!

Have a good weekend,

Dan J.

 ;D
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 04:49:44 PM by Dan J. »

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,005
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2007, 04:51:09 PM »
My HIV meds cost around $5,000/month.  That's JUST the HIV specific ones, no "ancillary" stuff much less my doctors/lab costs.

Fuzeon $2,000
Prezista $1045
Norvir $700
Truvada $1085
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline MOONLIGHT1114

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,918
  • Cheech 2.2.94 - 4.23.10 We miss you so much!
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2007, 04:58:14 PM »
NOOOOOOOOOOO!

I don't feel guilty at all.  In fact, I have been so stupid as to think ADAP wouldn't help you if you HAD health insurance already.  I am on Sustiva and Truvada and about 5 other meds for diabetes and such.  I pay a $300 premium to COBRA monthly to continue my health coverage through a previous employer.  The co-pays are outrageous, esp now that I am unemployed.  Typically, a co-pay for a 90-day supply of meds is $40 or $60 depending on the HMO/PPO formulary.  Through my previous employer, its a $100 copay!  So, I am anxiously awaiting news from ADAP to see what help they can offer.  I can't even imagine what the FULL cost is to my health plan with MRIs, labs, office visits.......Goodness!

We all deserve to be here, no matter what the cost!  I won't go too deeply into that war shit, either, but have had too many scares with my little brother in helicopters, shooting the Taliban in Afghanistan.  

Damn straight we are worth it!  Now if I could just share that with a nice man, lol!

Cindy
HIV+ since '93, 1/12 - CD4 785 and undet.   WOO-HOO!!

Offline otherplaces

  • Member
  • Posts: 398
  • Mutant Super Hero
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2007, 05:14:22 PM »


The price of healthcare in the US is skewed out of whack.  That ain't my fault.

Those prices aren't just paying for your meds.  They're also paying for low cost meds going to Africa.

brian

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,310
  • His name is Carl.
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2007, 05:24:00 PM »

The price of healthcare in the US is skewed out of whack.  That ain't my fault.

Those prices aren't just paying for your meds.  They're also paying for low cost meds going to Africa.

brian



Still worth it & no shame in it.  I'll take money spent for living over money spent for dying any day of the week....even when it's spent on other places.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Kellyk

  • Member
  • Posts: 49
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2007, 05:33:25 PM »
I'm definitely thankful that the expense is covered... guilty - no
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 05:41:39 PM by Kellyk »

Offline otherplaces

  • Member
  • Posts: 398
  • Mutant Super Hero
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2007, 05:40:01 PM »

I didn't intent to imply any shame or guilt involved, just that there's more than meets the eye to the wild price tags we encounter.

If charging my insurance $1,400 bucks/mo. causes price cuts on meds to Africa...whatever, I'm fine with that.  I would imagine there's a more cost effective way to make all that happen, but for now I guess it'll have to do.

brian


Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,954
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 05:45:30 PM »
Ask big pharma if they feel guilty, and of course you could pay for your drugs out of pocket.

Offline Dragonette

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,190
  • Spring symptoms
    • NotPerfectAtAll
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2007, 06:40:32 PM »
feeling guilt? you gotta be s****ing me.
actually I was kinda pleased to hear that I cost my insurance 17,000 Euro in the past year. I do pay them 140 a month though, and the state pays me back 34. I have double insurance and I intend to keep it, but am about to lose it sooner or later for residency issues. I do like to think that I am getting my money's worth back, as I know the last thing I should worry about is the insurance company or the pharaceutical companies.

Healthcare is a UNIVERSAL HUMAN RIGHT. All humans living with HIV and other diseases should be supplied with free meds. But of course, if you are more interested in profit, you will raise the prices and let millions die when the real costs are much smaller than what you charge. If I had a chance to pull insurance fraud I would gladly do it, and send spare meds to people who are dying without meds in their country. In fact I already sent some meds recently as a donation to a guy who was desperate for meds and couldn't get them. The guy's country is so rigid and strict, that is doesn't allow sending medicine at all, but with the help of the postal clerk we lied about the contents of the parcel and I used a friend's dead mother's name as the sender's so my own name would not be on some list somewhere when I one day try to sneak into that country which doesn't allow HIV+ entry. And guess which country I sent those drugs to? That's right. Funny huh, that the only Western, developed country where people are currently dying without meds is also the world's richest.
"If you keep one foot in yesterday, and one in tomorrow, you piss all over today". Betty Tacy

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,286
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2007, 06:48:08 PM »
I'm not going to knock big Pharma. One of them pays for my medication that they manufacture @43200 a year. I paid my taxes for 34 years before using ADAP or any other aid. I don't feel gulity in the least.

Offline Razorbill

  • Member
  • Posts: 622
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2007, 07:01:57 PM »
Not guilty.  Astounded by the expense, maybe.  My three meds are running 23k a year about.  Very nervous about the future of my private insurance, yes.  At 8 - 13 % increases a year, my employer is going to have to start reaching deeper in my pocket to cover costs.  The cost of health care is a central sticking point to our current contract negotiations.  Something's gonna give.

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 9,912
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2007, 07:11:16 PM »
Medicare Part D pays for my meds and I don't feel bad in the least.  I HAVE SSDI and Medicare Part D because I PAID into it all those years.  As for people in 3rd world countries, I feel bad that they don't have the care that we do, but I'm not sacrificing myself over something I personally can't do anything about.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,310
  • His name is Carl.
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2007, 07:13:22 PM »
I didn't intent to imply any shame or guilt involved, just that there's more than meets the eye to the wild price tags we encounter.

If charging my insurance $1,400 bucks/mo. causes price cuts on meds to Africa...whatever, I'm fine with that.  I would imagine there's a more cost effective way to make all that happen, but for now I guess it'll have to do.

brian




Oh, I gotcha.  I understood your post, and didn't mean to seem like I was offended.  Just stating that I think preserving life and health is a universally worthy aim.  It's interesting to me that this administration has gone to great lengths to assert that protecting its citizens is its primary duty- yet doesn't seem to want to extend that ideology to healthcare.  So loss of health or life to attacks from weaponry is a concern, but illness?  Not so much.  Again, not trying to pick apart Iraq in particular- just the curios disconnect on that front that has always seemed to be present in this country.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline pozniceguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,176
  • Niceguy Dallas
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2007, 07:17:17 PM »
Not a whit.... I have paid into all the system (Income tax, Medicare, Social Security and Health coverage ) at the maximum rates for nearly 35 yrs....so when it comes time that I need to draw on them I not only don't feel guilty but somewhat entitled.....
I don't mean this to be an endorsement of the outrageous cost of some of these items..I think someone has a lot of soul searching to do when it comes to setting prices for this stuff... but since there are so few alternatives ( they are either expensive or very expensive ) then I don't really have much choice about how much or who pays for them.....the usual social/political pressures ( like don't buy them)  are not an option for me....

Nick
remember the good times...honor the past but don't live there
Le stelle la notte sono grandie luminose, nel cuore profondo del Texas

Offline mjmel

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,069
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2007, 07:34:15 PM »
Guilt? No way! Paid taxes all my working life too. Hey, dufusmaximus, I noted you have 3 posts and are new to the forum? Welcome!
Hang out awhile and soon you'll comprehend why no one feels guilty for the costs of survival. Don't feel guilt, fella. Yes, it's a shock how much it cost to stay alive and well. Live and thrive, dufumaximus. Guilt is a waste of time and energy.....and a path towards a low quality life. Don't let anyone lay that trip on you. It's a dis-ease in itself.
xxx,
Mike

edited: typo/clarity
« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 05:06:31 AM by mjmel »

Offline asaint

  • Member
  • Posts: 95
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2007, 07:46:03 PM »
GUILTY Nooooo F'ing way. Its not in my vocabulary.
6/11 VL <50   CD4 (9%)   CD8 (54%}

Offline Oceanbeach

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,565
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2007, 08:35:26 PM »
Let me take a moment to reflect..........................................................
.............................Times up... NO!  Like many of us, I worked up until I could not and I paid a huge tax bill every year while working.  Congress was well aware of the problems with Medicare Part D when it was invited in our lives and hoped the problems would work out in time.  At that time my meds cost about $3000.00 per month.

I put together a little web site to help raise public awareness of the potential annual funding losses re: the Ryan White Modernization Act.  Our County, Sonoma County was expecting to lose 75% of their annual funding ($1.6 million).  I paid for that site and wrote all of the copy.  I actively marketed that site through the Forums, the radio, newspapers and TV, it received over 66,000 unique visitors in one year.  Of that 66,000 viewers only 9 of them were from Sonoma County ISP's.  There were more viewings from other countries than from the county which was losing their funding.

The County of Sonoma did lose their Title I funding, as did the Counties of Sacramento and Santa Clara.  At the annual HIV Planning Retreat last November, the organizations who lost their funding decided to form another committee.  The new Public Relations Committee was formed while I was in the can throwing up.  They have one member.

Last April, the HIV Section Manager announced the $5.5 million annual budget for Sonoma County had been approved at our monthly Commission on AIDS meeting.  I also spent last summer on the Funding Allocation Working Group. 

As a member of FAWG and the COA, I did the math and $1.6 Million is not 75% of $5.5 million.  HIV/AIDS creates jobs which are rarely given to people living with HIV/AIDS.  The bulk of these jobs are most often given to those who live HIV vicariously through us for 40 hours each week.

At this moment, George W. Bush has 555 days, 3 hours and 22 minutes left in office.  Have the best day
Michael
(who expects quality work from all people employed in HIV/AIDS organizations)

   
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 08:37:18 PM by Sonomabeach »

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2007, 03:42:02 AM »
If charging my insurance $1,400 bucks/mo. causes price cuts on meds to Africa...whatever, I'm fine with that.  I would imagine there's a more cost effective way to make all that happen, but for now I guess it'll have to do.
I don't think the price people pay in wealthy nations for medications is high so that companies can cut drug prices in Africa.  The price companies charge in each market is divorced from providing low cost meds to other nations.  The price charged in each market is based on a company's ability to maxmize profits.  That price is affected by the cost to make the drug, competition (can't charge more than a similiar type drug made by your competitor), pricing regulations in certain markets and discounts provided to certain vendors/insurance companies.  Companies have only recently started providing meds to Africa.  But drug prices have been high since well forever.  So the two probably aren't linked.

But to answer your question, no I don't feel guilty.

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2007, 04:11:43 AM »
Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?

Nope. I paid into our Canadian public health care system when I worked and now I reap the benefits. It's that simple.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline frenchpat

  • Member
  • Posts: 516
  • Love your friends, don't eat them.
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2007, 04:26:03 AM »
In a country where everyone has access to the same level of state-sponsored health care, I have, and continue to, contributed to the health costs of others through payments proportionate to my income.

It is a solidarity based system that works and I don't have to feel anymore guilt about my neighbor paying for my haart regimen than he has for me subsidizing his next MRI scan or dental filling. We all contribute to our society's better health and I see no problem with that, even though the system has a few flaws, is sometimes abused and loses money.

I'd rather have my taxes pay for such a health system than for more missiles or landmines (THAT makes me feel guilty).

Pat
People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,784
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2007, 12:08:29 PM »
Of course not. Specially after seeing how politicians waste our money in silly things for their own profit and to keep their power. It is the first time I am getting back part of the taxes I have been paying for all my life. People in the south of Spain live thanks to a program called PER: the government pays them a salary for doing nothing and, consecuently, they prefer to remain unemployed and keep on voting to the same corrupt politicians. In fact I think my meds should cost 10 times more. The price of my meds compared to all that waste is nothing.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 12:10:15 PM by blondbeauty »
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline englishgirl

  • Member
  • Posts: 387
  • ACT NOW TO CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE TRAVEL BAN
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2007, 12:11:43 PM »
i gotta say that i have felt huge guilt when i have been sat next to people i know who come from countries that do not have healthcare, have claimed asylum on the grounds of their status (and about a million other things) and have been refused and are about to be sent back to certain dealth due to the lack of medicine, food, shelter etc. the first time i really thought about this i felt so so guilty i went home and cried and cried that just because of where i was born i will live and these people will die. the thing is though that life isnt fair and the choice we in the west all have is to beat ourselves up or accept it and try our best to change things so that the future is different.

so in a nutshell, i have felt guilt that i have wonderful healthcare and others do not, but i think i feel no more guilt than someone who has cancer or any other disease or illness may do.

the guilt is associated with the unfairness in the world not in the illness itself and its treatment. like others here i know i deserve healthcare. i just wish our politicians would spend more on this and less on war

lots of love xxx
ACT NOW TO CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE TRAVEL BAN:
http://campaigning.tht.org.uk/cms/cmsloader?WfJVLp&view=11,301,1385,0,-html

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=17352.0


"I'm not keen on the idea of the afterlife - not without knowing who else will be there and what the entertainment will be. Personally I'd rather just take a rest." Oscar Berger, PWA: Looking AIDS in the Face, 1996. RIP.

Offline otherplaces

  • Member
  • Posts: 398
  • Mutant Super Hero
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2007, 04:45:32 PM »

Cliff,

I offered but one example of why the prices are inflated above market driven costs.  The other might be that the gov't will just pay it and not seek to negotiate lower prices.  If I was a CEO of a for profit company and was pressured to sell my product at or below my cost to one part of the world I'd probably try and make up that loss somewhere else (well, *I* wouldn't but you get my drift).  So, IMHO, I believe part of the price paid in the west supplements drugs going to countries that can't afford them, and is but one factor why the crazy prices aren't to be regarded as anything but skewed, and thus hardly worth feeling guilty about even if one were going to feel guilty to begin with.

brian

Offline dufusmaximus

  • Member
  • Posts: 34
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2007, 11:49:30 PM »
sorry, forgot to introduce myself, dufusmaximus, new here, been infected since about 2002.  Just starting treatments now.  I'm just nervous at the costs and must plan for the day when ADAP or something like it isn't around...I can't afford $1100 per month for meds.  I'm no fan pharm companies, but they do make sutff that keeps us alive and we live in a capitalist state - so they can make money....just hope i can continue to afford treatments...wonder if cancers, diabetes, other re-occurring issues are so expensive to treat?  Anyone else have ideas what it costs, say a breast cancer person per month in drugs? or heart or what??

i'm pretty pragmatic, i wish i could say all life is precious at all costs - but i can't, maybe you guys can change my opinions. I'm open to learn more, try to understand different points.

Offline xyahka

  • Member
  • Posts: 778
  • Dance together!! aha!! aha!! I like it!!
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2007, 02:18:06 AM »
what about those poor folks in 3rd world countries?

I guess one of those poor folks in a 3rd world country (Ecuador) where they do not even give me my vitamins.... Where ARVs are out of stock once or twice per year and that situation usually lasts from 1 to 3 months  and many people are really unable to fight the virus cause they have no clue on how to take the control.

If i can say something i would start by requesting you NOT to think about us like "poor folks". We over here are fighters same like you all over there, the situation where we live is hard YES, but i would not say harder than yours... because we all face troubles wherever we are. I don't like others to feel sad about me... nor for where i was borned (because i love this country), nor because of my health care situation... feeling pity for us does not help... we are fighters, and fighters do not like pity from others... i prefer respect, it is the same feeling i have towards any other poz around the world, because i know what to fight for your life means.

No need to feel guilty for anything, as many others have pointed... stupid wars are wasting much more money that could be used to save lifes instead of eliminating them (that's why only few countries have internal/external wars over here... we do not have enough money to spend in them :)).
Plus feeling pity or guilty for others is useless... if you are really concern it is better to DO something to help others in need. Don't ya think?

Cheers, Juan Carlos (a fighter!)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 02:22:15 AM by xyahka »
13/03/07 1er diagnóstico /Peso: 79kg
19/04/07 CD4: 494 /CViral: ?? /Peso: 80kg
19/07/07 CD4: 659 /CViral: ?? /Peso: 79.5kg
06/03/08 CD4: 573 (después de meses muy deprimido) /CViral: ?? /Peso: 79kg
17/09/08 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 84Kg
06/02/09 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 85Kg /HCV: Neg /HBV: Neg.
07/03/09 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 87Kg / Gym 3días/semana y Natación 2días/semana.
12/05/09 CD4: 470 /Cviral: ?? /Peso: 87Kg.
08/07/09 CD4: ? /CViral: ? /Peso: 77Kg.
09/12/09 CD4: 510 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg. No medicinas aún
10/01/10 CD4: ? /CViral: ? /Peso: 76Kg.
15/05/10 CD4: 320 /CViral: ? /Peso: 76Kg.
01/02/11 CD4: 291 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg.
05/05/11 CD4: 366 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg.
27/07/11 CD4: 255 /CViral: 138000 /Peso: 78kg.

Disfrutando y aceptando una nueva vida...

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,286
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2007, 03:44:42 AM »
dufusmaximus, none of us here can tell you how precious you feel your life is. What we can tell you is about ourselves. My life is worth living and I'm a fighter and I will continue to fight until my last breath. I don't care what it costs to keep me alive, I just want to stay living, just like anyone else does with any other disease. All medicines and medical costs are expensive, there are none that is cheap. Now reading your other posts in other forums about thinking suicide please keep those thoughts there and don't bring them to a forum where everyone is fighting to stay alive. 

jms79

  • Guest
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2007, 03:49:48 AM »
fuck no.  i hear part of the reason its so expensive is because the pharmaceutical companies are allowed to raise the price to whatever they'd like for profit and yadda yadda, something thats costs thousands a year only costs a few hundred to make a year.  i havent dealt with insurance outside of ADAP since i became infected.....so part of me is curious how well typical insurance companies care for us, ouside of ADAP....and whats up with the whole pre-existing condition stuff regarding care, but thats for anothter post i suppose.

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,228
  • Ninja Please
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2007, 05:19:47 AM »
There are somethings in life which extend beyond the borders of personal responsibility. One of those things is access to affordable health-care.

Rather than looking at this as your medications/treatments being a cost to the community, rather you should consider what the burden to the community would be if you didn't have access to these medications.

MtD

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,286
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2007, 06:21:35 AM »
There are somethings in life which extend beyond the borders of personal responsibility. One of those things is access to affordable health-care.

Rather than looking at this as your medications/treatments being a cost to the community, rather you should consider what the burden to the community would be if you didn't have access to these medications.

MtD


You amaze me sometimes Matty. That was a good point.  ;)

Offline emeraldize

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,343
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2007, 08:00:06 AM »
DufusMaximus

Perhaps this recent news story about FEMA spending $12.5 million to transport and store ice post-Katrina (and now deciding to melt it as there are no takers for it) will help you cool your guilt feelings. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19765556/

I wonder if it is guilt you are truly feeling and instead perhaps a jumble of other feelings. I think you can sort it out. If you find it is guilt, you could offset it by volunteering at an ASO or as an HIV educator. Assuage and Assist simultaneously!!

Offline racingmind

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2007, 09:43:36 AM »
I'm not on meds yet, but when the time comes I am mostly likely going to need some assistance.  No, I will not feel any guilt whatsoever....our government wastes so much money (especially) on this stupid war it makes me wanna puke.  It's so much like the vision of George Orwell it's scary.

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

Yeah right.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 10:46:19 AM by racingmind »
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline david25luvit

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,409
  • Member since March 2005
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2007, 10:39:16 AM »
To answer your question..........NO I don't feel bad.  What a silly question. ::)

Do I think the pharmaceutical companies need to be raked over for profitting on
the misery of others...  A resounding YES!
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline redhotmuslbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 605
  • A genuine certified freak of nature, and a hot one
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2007, 10:57:40 AM »
Prior to treatment for HIV I had already cost several insurers well over $1,000,000 to keep me alive through a couple dozen brain surgeries, and I have never had the slightest bit of guilt regarding the expense.  After all, insurance is a well managed scheme of spreading risk/cost over a large enough pool of premium payers to provide a perceived fair return to all of the insured, and I am simply a statistical outlier in that regard.

Still, since I began HIV treatment in 1998, I have been mindful of the increased costs that would be passed through to my employeers and my co-workers.  I also recognize that several hundred dollars a month to cover meds for me kept me a productive and profit-making employee for the seven years I was on meds, and the added lab work isn't so out of line with routine care costs for non-HIVers.  I even rib my current boss of 19 months that the firm of which he is a managing partner should be paying me extra fo not being on meds for the whole time I've been with them, though our insurance carrier calls a couple weeks after every lab claim is processed to discuss why I "should be on medication to maintain a healthy immune system" and be told for the Nth time that I'm a non-progressor.... there must not be a diagnostic code for that to flag on my records!

Cheers,
David
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,286
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2007, 10:59:40 AM »
David, if the pharma companies weren't going to make a profit, then why would they even be in business? Someone has to pay their bills and employees and their researchers don't make chicken feed.


Nov. 30, 2001
  The Tufts Center for the Study of Drug Development today announced that the average cost to develop a new prescription drug is $802 million.

Related Tufts Center research has found that it takes between 10 and 15 years to develop a new prescription medicine and win approval to market it in the United States.

http://csdd.tufts.edu/NewsEvents/RecentNews.asp?newsid=6

I'm sure their costs are higher in the last 6 years.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 11:01:17 AM by RapidRod »

Offline zachysmom

  • Member
  • Posts: 112
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2007, 11:01:15 AM »
I don't feel quilty at all!!!!!
I worked for years, and about to go back to work, I paid my taxes, and am still paying taxes. I am lucky enough to have Kaiser and I pay $500.00 deductible and $35.00 for each med, and  that's for both my husband and I.

Healthcare should be universal. Our government should have it down. They are to busy thinking about profit to really care sometimes about the people who are really suffering. Living with HIV or any disease is hard enough without having to worry about how you are going to get care. I would pay more in taxes if it meant universal healthcare. People we need to get the pharmacy and corporations out of our care, they're f***king it up.

Tip:
 For all those who have to do taxes everyyear, you can write off the expense of your healthcare as long as it exceeds $1500.00 a year or a certain percentage of your income. And that includes dental expense as well.
From Russia with love,
Nicole

Offline dixieman

  • Member
  • Posts: 889
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2007, 11:50:43 AM »
I'm employed and I am fortunate to have health insurance... so it is part of my benefit package... also, diabetes, cancer, heart etc... is also a possible with hiv... and the expense for these are just as costly... so why are you on ADAP... are you not able to work? do you not health insurance? and if not WHY? youv'e only been positive since 2002? I've been positive since 1991... and still employed and I'm thankful... so what gives dufus? instead of putting everyone on this site on the spot ... what's your excuse?

Each person is doing the best they can with what they can so I'm just trying to figure out why are you  asking these people to defend their circumstances?

Oh and circumstances in other countries... I feel for the people but, I want this country to gets its priorities together first... and foremost and help our citizens first and if we can help other nations great and if not that is why they are a separate sovereignty from the United States...


Offline david25luvit

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,409
  • Member since March 2005
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2007, 12:04:53 PM »
Rodney...sweetie....

Indeed pharmaceutical companies are in business to make money. Unfortunately some of these companies sell drugs they know that causes death and illness
like for example BEXTRA. They knew years before they took it off the market that it was causing Steven Johnsons Syndrome, heart attacks, strokes and death
but chose to continue selling it because after crunching the numbers they decided they could still make billions of dollars profit even after paying off lawsuits. The FDA
finally forced them to take it off the market.... This is a drug where there were no clinical trials and the company was in such a rush to get it on the market they
did not care how many people they maimed and killed as long as they made their profit quotas. NOW are these the people you want to defend???

Never mind their practices in Africa where drug testing goes hand in hand with eating and medical care....You don't take their drug....you don't eat and you don't
get medical care.  I dare say we're only just beginning to discover what some drug companies will do to make their bottom line.  As much as we owe our lives to
some of these companies....there are millions more who aren't around to debate the issue any longer.

Forgive me for hijacking this thread....
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,286
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2007, 12:17:17 PM »
David, there has been a lot of meds that have had to be taken off the market due to finding hazards way after marketing. A lot of our HIV drugs are waivered to get them on the market sooner because they showed promise. But if it weren't for the need and demand, we wouldn't have the HIV medications we have today. Most of the meds we have now are waivered, no one knows down the line how much damage they will do. All that we know is that we yelled loud enough to get the meds on market and simplified the usual testing that it usually takes. It's a catch 22. You can not take the meds and die or you can take the meds and take a chance of other complications. I chose to take the meds with limiited long term studies. 

Offline PJC0510

  • Member
  • Posts: 101
  • Life is worth living, so live it while you have it
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2007, 08:07:03 PM »
Feel guilty to make insurance pay for meds to KEEP ME ALIVE?  Hell no!  The drug companies are raping the insurance companies with cost and if the insurance industry is not smart enough to lobby against them, then I am not guilty at all.

I thank God I am able to work and afford insurance, it is keeping me alive.

Do not feel guilty about insurance cost.  And for the people relying on state and federal funding for their meds, do not feel guilty either.  The amount of money we are shelling out for welfare for people who are able to work and do not and keep spitting out babies to get more to feed the addictions, our meds are worth more to us and we appreciate it.

Please do not let me get into the fact that we are spending billions upon billions in Iraq to "fight" a war we should have not been in.  We have so many people here, including us. that can benefit from those funds.

Rant over!  Have a beauty filled day!

Peter
I may never beat HIV, but then again, it will NEVER beat me!

Offline PJC0510

  • Member
  • Posts: 101
  • Life is worth living, so live it while you have it
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2007, 08:11:14 PM »
How can people afford to live, and what about those poor folks in 3rd world countries?

Okay, I am sorry.  One more little rant.  I am all for helping people, but lets start with helping our own.  Call me uncaring or a heartless bitch, but this is how I feel.  How many countries have we helped who scoffed at us when we went to Iraq? 

And where is the cure?  Would love to see the day where I can got for treatment to rid myself if this.  I am not sure it will happen any time soon while the drug companies are making $$$.

Okay, no mas!
I may never beat HIV, but then again, it will NEVER beat me!

Offline aupointillimite

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,229
  • FUS DO RAH!
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2007, 09:13:22 PM »
Guilty?

Fuck no.

What people in the West SHOULD feel guilty about is the cheap goods that were probably made by some doe-eyed waif in Southeast Asia who makes three bucks a day.

Where was your t-shirt made?  Who picked your food?  Where is everything in Wal-Mart made? 

That's where the inequality is... not in the high quality medicine that we get that costs an arm and a leg.  Try subsidizing clean drinking water and mosquito netting for the Third World first.  Then talk to me about how bad I should feel for having my insurance company shell out $13,000 a year for HAART.

Is anyone hopping on that train?

Didn't think so.

Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline dufusmaximus

  • Member
  • Posts: 34
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2007, 11:35:24 PM »
wow! the topic was just lying there, i thought it was dead and then boom!
i liked reading all the responses, i'm not sure i understand some of the anger towards me (mostly dixieman)...i'm just voicing an honest concern...

and for the guy in Ecuador, i wasn't being condescending, i'm honestly worried about people in the 3rd world...if in the first world (US for now) it is hard to get meds i can't imagine how much harder it would be to be elsewhere...so it was sincere worry

we covered so many subjects from whether pharmacies should profit and/or how much, to the iraq war to universal healthcare, rock on! what else?

very exciting, i'm glad you guys replied and i hope we can continue our dialogue

i'm not a therapist, god knows i need mine, but i did hit a nerve? yes? does a living thing need to justify its existence? is all life precious? should life be preserved at all/any costs? are some lives worth more than others?  deep topics, let's keep talking about them






Offline allopathicholistic

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,258
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2007, 12:01:14 AM »
You asked: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?

Replace the word guilt with anger and my answer becomes Yes

I'm angry that the drugs are so expensive when I was told that it doesn't have to be this way. i.e., when I marched at the ACT UP march not too long ago in New York, many of the signs were about the costs of the drugs and how they could be offered at a fraction of the price generically

So a big thanks to whomever strategized those signs if you're out there reading this

But guilt? Nah, not really. When I was strong and able to work 40-50 hours in a fast-paced high-stress industry without so much as breaking a sweat, my taxes helped all kinds of people and it just so happens that I need help now. If I could flip a switch and go back to the old, I would

Offline lonewolf

  • Member
  • Posts: 96
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2007, 06:50:55 PM »
OK.    Let me  just focus on myself as a human being on this earth,   irregardless of where I live....
HOWEVER yes, blessed with living in the United States.   

Been around for 60 years,  paid my dues,   good life,    productive,   good average person...
Do I feel guilty that I have HIV now and will be on meds in the future,   with or without medical insurance.

NO.    Guess I have enough guilt living HIV...
What about everyone else who has cancer,   heart problems, diabetes,and the list goes on and on.  I am entitled to the same benefits they are.
OPTIONS.    Give up and die.     

Damn,  Bottom line,  I am entitled to the benefits I am receiving,  now and in the future. 
Do I have any remorse for those in 3rd world countries.   
Yes,  but they have so many other issues besides HIV...Right????
Bruce
"To all within the sound of my voice, I appeal: Learn with me the lessons of history and of grace, so my children will not be afraid to say the word “AIDS” when I am gone. Then, their children and yours may not need to whisper it at all."  Mary Fisher

Offline MitchMiller

  • Member
  • Posts: 471
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2007, 11:40:18 PM »
I know exactly where you're coming from w/the guilt thing.  I feel very guilty because it was my own recklessness that brought HIV to me and I don't think my coworkers should bear the burden of my meds.   I work for a self-insured co. (as most large co.'s are).   My meds cost makes me a very expensive resource.

So I just pay for the meds myself and am in a study that helps cover labs.... so that my annual cost to the co. is only $600 for dr. visits and labs (except when the doc decides to add an extra "service" charge for who knows what!  - I always monitor my insurance records online).  I don't feel guilty about the co. paying $600/year.

I'm not saying my decision is rational.  A co-worker running in a cross-country marathon didn't see a hole and fell into it and incurred enormous medical costs (probably > $1M).  ... or another turned in front of a truck and he and his motorcycle ending up in mangled pieces... (another huge bill)... so everyone makes mistakes... but I can afford to pay for my meds so I'd just rather be done with it than carry the guilt.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 11:43:00 PM by MitchMiller »

Offline poz1970

  • Member
  • Posts: 480
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2007, 06:57:56 PM »
Whoa

I'm in Australia, on a government Disability Support Pension, every 3 months I get my meds from a pharmacy in town,

Ziagen 300mg - $5.90 for 3 months worth
lamivudine 150mg - $5.90 for 3 months worth
Nevirapine  200mg - $5.90 for 3 months worth

These amounts you're talking, omfg, it just scares me!

J
"The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to  heterosexuals. That doesn`t mean that God doesn`t love heterosexuals. It`s just that they need more supervision." -- Lynn Lavne

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,005
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Anyone feel guilt about the expense to keep alive?
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2007, 04:03:52 PM »
Well, no poz1970... you're missing some of it.  I'm on disability too so when I say my meds cost $5,000/month that's the amount state programs pay for them.  I'm actually paying LESS than you are (read: zero).

I think most here are discussing the "cost to society" dollar amount, not necessarily what they are paying out of pocket, though assuredly those here on private medical insurance do in fact pay monthly co-pays which can quickly add up.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.