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Author Topic: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?  (Read 2521 times)

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Offline shadowfluid

  • Member
  • Posts: 398
  • Mike
CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« on: June 30, 2007, 05:35:08 PM »
26 y/o healthy male. Diagnosed a month ago. Nasty nasty nasty nasty seroconversion last Sept (Fever for 19 days, rash, vomiting...etc)
So I guess I've had it for almost a year.
Anyway here are my only labs since May of this year.
351/35%  VL 40,000
348/28%  VL n/a

My doctor said to not worry just yet. And yet, I worry. My auntie knows a lot about HIV and she said my numbers are bad! How dare her! Haha. Anyway she's not a doctor but has done lots of research and is kind of well-known. I just need to listen to my doctor and nobody else...but I can't help but go online and see other people's results/symptoms/etc and relate them to me.
I guess cuz it's all so new! Anyway, back to the matter at hand, I know CD4% are the "less variable" or whatever, but is this drop significant? Oh and I just quit smoking a pack a day in between labs. I heard smoking raises Tcells...to fight off all the nastiness. Anyway...will only time tell? Or is this an early warning?
                                                                                 
Jan 08       321/23%  VL 92,000 (very mild shingles)
Feb 1 08    Start Truvada+Viramune
March 08    470/33%  VL 320
mid-May     Start Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada
June 08      571/ 40%     VL   80
August 08   585/ 33%     VL >50
Nov  Lab error!!!!!!!!wah.
Jan 09        535      Undetectable
March 11     756

Offline keyite

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  • Posts: 514
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2007, 06:03:38 PM »
Welcome to the forums. Sorry you've joined the club but welcome nonetheless. During the first year of infection numbers will bounce around, while your body gets used to the virus. Even the CD4% can move up and down - see my results in my signature. Really, you need more than two results, and you need them over a bit of time, to be able to distinguish a trend.

I totally relate to your worry - it is all very new and it's a very natural reaction. It's going to be like that for a while, until you get used to receiving these lab results and start being able to put them into more of a perspective.

Your CD4% is actually very good. Your doctor is right to say not to worry yet.

Offline shadowfluid

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  • Posts: 398
  • Mike
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2007, 06:12:16 PM »
Thanks for the reply!
Jan 08       321/23%  VL 92,000 (very mild shingles)
Feb 1 08    Start Truvada+Viramune
March 08    470/33%  VL 320
mid-May     Start Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada
June 08      571/ 40%     VL   80
August 08   585/ 33%     VL >50
Nov  Lab error!!!!!!!!wah.
Jan 09        535      Undetectable
March 11     756

Offline Matty the Damned

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  • Ninja Please
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2007, 06:28:12 PM »
Hey  Shadow,

Honey, your numbers aren't bad but that decrease in percentage is something to keep an eye on. Keyite is spot on when he says that you need more than two sets of results to decide what's going on. It's all about trends over time.

Our Lessons Section has an excellent section on understanding what your lab results mean.

Your primary and central source of advice should be your doctor, but there's nothing wrong with keeping yourself informed by seeking advice at reputable sites like AIDSmeds.

MtD

Offline Jeffreyj

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  • Posts: 1,403
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2007, 08:08:25 PM »
Your numbers are not bad at all.  It is a great thing that you quit smoking.

Just try to put things in perspective. These are your first two labs? Well, you will probably have several hundred labs, and labs are a rollercoaster ride. They make the stock market look silly.

Try to remember that mental toughness will come in handy. You are young and strong. But the stress we all put on ourselves is at times more destructive than the HIV itself.

So congrats on the smokes, now try to relax and enjoy the ride. We are here for you. You will meet some really great people here.

Best of Luck,
Jeffrey
Positive since 1985

Offline Tempeboy

  • Member
  • Posts: 359
  • Like St Francis of Assisi I am wedded to Poverty
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2007, 08:56:19 PM »
Hello Shadow,

Your labs are good, good, good!

When we experience our first drop we can be concerned.  Same goes if we have a jump in numbers.  As the wise ones of the forum have said, trends over time are the key.  I have had huge changes that have normalised - even on meds - but that's me.  You will come to know your trends.

Well done for quitting the fags - your lungs will love you, my lungs hhhhhhhhhate me (cough, cough).

As matty says, your doc is your disease manager (with you of course), and this forum is a great way to get "peer" support and advice.  There's alot to be said for this type of networking.

Your doing all the right things, now breathe.

x
Roughly roundabout somewhere in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, Sodomite begat Homosexual out of moral, medical and legal models, bequeathing him Identity, who inbred with Nuclear Family and Industrialism to spawn Homophobia.

Dean Kiley

Offline milker

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  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2007, 10:14:58 PM »
Hi fluid,

welcome to the forums. Like everyone else said, your labs are good, and they apparently been done 2 months apart so you can expect numbers to jump up and down with such a short period. Do you know when you will get your next VL numbers? Do you have your CD8% by any chance? The CD8s are the killers and I like to see them working hard :D

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Matty the Damned

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  • Posts: 12,244
  • Ninja Please
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2007, 10:23:43 PM »
Do you have your CD8% by any chance? The CD8s are the killers and I like to see them working hard

As far as I'm aware the role of the CD8% is not well understood. Rather than getting all complex about this it might be better for Shadow to focus on understanding his CD4% and other basic bloodwork.

MtD

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2007, 10:29:54 PM »
Matty,

thanks for your comment.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline shadowfluid

  • Member
  • Posts: 398
  • Mike
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2007, 10:45:06 PM »
Hi fluid,

welcome to the forums. Like everyone else said, your labs are good, and they apparently been done 2 months apart so you can expect numbers to jump up and down with such a short period. Do you know when you will get your next VL numbers? Do you have your CD8% by any chance? The CD8s are the killers and I like to see them working hard :D

Milker.

No i don't know what those are, but thanks for the reply.
Jan 08       321/23%  VL 92,000 (very mild shingles)
Feb 1 08    Start Truvada+Viramune
March 08    470/33%  VL 320
mid-May     Start Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada
June 08      571/ 40%     VL   80
August 08   585/ 33%     VL >50
Nov  Lab error!!!!!!!!wah.
Jan 09        535      Undetectable
March 11     756

Offline shadowfluid

  • Member
  • Posts: 398
  • Mike
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2007, 10:47:49 PM »
Thanks to everyone for the kind words.
Jan 08       321/23%  VL 92,000 (very mild shingles)
Feb 1 08    Start Truvada+Viramune
March 08    470/33%  VL 320
mid-May     Start Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada
June 08      571/ 40%     VL   80
August 08   585/ 33%     VL >50
Nov  Lab error!!!!!!!!wah.
Jan 09        535      Undetectable
March 11     756

Offline dtwpuck

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,013
  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2007, 07:24:36 AM »
Your labs are fine and you should listen to your doctor, not your aunt.
 
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline Carolann

  • Member
  • Posts: 233
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2007, 01:48:53 PM »
Your viral load is important. If your viral load is rising sharply in a trend, then it is time to worry. Recently viral load is being looked at more and more as a gauge of disease progression especially with people on treatment. A friend of mine had a percentage and cd4 drop, but is still undetectable, so the doctors are telling him he is not in immediate danger. Numbers are also affected by drinking, time of day labs are taken, stresss...I agree with everyone else that it needs to be a trend  to make any representative readings.

Good wishes for you.

CA

Offline Life

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,388
  • Member 2005
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2007, 02:54:03 PM »
Shadow welcome to AM.....  Tell your Aunti to log in so she can get up to speed on what is good and what is baaaad...  ;D  Anyway, she cares and she knows which is a great thing for support for you....  Support and knowledge about this bugger will help you greatly..... You pretty much can find anything you need right here.   As for your numbers,  I agree with everyone else, your not bad and you have time to think about the next steps you will need to take...  After you get a few more labs under your belt, you will have a better idea on how your body is tackeling this.... Then eventually, its going to need some help.... 

Glad you found this site and keep talkin...

Hugs,

Eric

Offline camille07

  • Member
  • Posts: 570
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2007, 07:08:01 PM »
Ok, now I'm getting a little flummoxed.  My doctor told me that the cd% was the most relevant in treatment and the vl and cd4 count were secondary, but still important.  This was because the cd% was the most stable number on a daily basis.  ???

Offline milker

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  • Protected phone sex
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2007, 10:01:20 PM »
Ok, now I'm getting a little flummoxed.  My doctor told me that the cd% was the most relevant in treatment and the vl and cd4 count were secondary, but still important.  This was because the cd% was the most stable number on a daily basis.  ???
The CD4% gives a better idea of the trend, it doesn't jump up and down like the CD4 number. The % gives a percentage relative to the overall number of lymphocytes, and the number of lymphocytes goes up and down as well for various reasons, so the percentage is really something that is more stable to look at.

Now looking at the VL also helps determining if the virus is going out of control given the amount of immunity you have with your CD4s and other important cells. Let's say you have a good percent, like 35% but the VL doesn't go down and stays over a million, that would be something to take into account.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline camille07

  • Member
  • Posts: 570
Re: CD4% dramatic drop in 3 weeks?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2007, 12:20:13 PM »
I see.  I have a % of 35 and VL of 1,058 for over a year. 

Thanks for clarifying.

 


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