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Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

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Poll

How did you get infected?

Unprotected anal/vaginal sex
44 (75.9%)
Sharing needles
2 (3.4%)
Born HIV+
0 (0%)
Oral sex
9 (15.5%)
Blood transfusion
0 (0%)
Other (explain)
3 (5.2%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: How did you get infected?  (Read 14118 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Oceanbeach

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,565
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2007, 04:05:24 PM »
With apologies to Smith Barney... I earned it.
Have the best day
Michael
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 04:08:28 PM by Sonomabeach »

Offline Jerry71

  • Member
  • Posts: 955
  • {Lexiva, Norvir, Complera} Still Breathing!!!
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2007, 05:09:27 PM »
perhaps others should start threads too.... Carolann??? i am sure you may also have any verbose example of cheerfullness to share with us too  :P. Go ahead and post something... i am curious to know what you have to tell us...:P. Kisses, have a good day

Juan Carlos  :D

Yeah Carolann where are your threads. Have never seen anything written on here but just when you joined back in April of this year. Also have noticed you have a lot of nerve to come on here and start stuff with people that have been on the forums for quite some time.


Offline anniebc

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,951
  • AM member since 2003
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2007, 06:38:37 PM »
Ok guys

It's time to stop calling each other out on this.

Personally I don't get involved with posts like this..but that's my choice...and we All have that choice...so if you want to answer the question then go ahead..if not then don't...it's as simple as that...just keep things on track.

Have a nice day and hugs
Jan



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline cubbybear

  • Member
  • Posts: 510
  • Joined August 2005.
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2007, 06:25:45 AM »
I got mine from the television.. I think it was on free to air TV.

Nope.. just checked.. I got it because I didnt care about myself very much and was having rampant unprotected sex with anyone and everyone.  You reap what you sew.
There's a bear in there!
Positive since 2000
Diagnosed 17/9/2005 CD4 35 VL 293,000
Meds 23/9/2005 Sustiva/Truvada
Currently CD4 232 VL Undetectable

Offline jack

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,578
  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2007, 10:27:00 AM »
As I tell all medical professionals who ask this idiotic question,"take a wild fucking guess".

Offline woodshere

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,477
  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2007, 11:41:16 AM »

This is the exact way I got it!!!


" wild fucking ".
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline redhotmuslbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 605
  • A genuine certified freak of nature, and a hot one
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2007, 12:38:26 PM »
This is the exact way I got it!!!  .........wild fucking.......


Ha!  I just had to take the poll to see the "results" -- over 1 in 8 contracting HIV through oral sex suggests an amazing concentration of such incidents...

As for me, I've always assumed I got it "the old-fashioned way" from a buggy load up my ass before we were told to use condoms.  The specific source being a very hot Nordic guy in his mid-thirties who gave me syphilis at 17, along with the greatest orgasm and biggest cock I had had up to that time.  ...hehehe... I'm spotting just thinking about him.. ;D.... Night sweats and persistent swollen glands set in a few weeks later, after the shot in the glutes and a stern motherly lecture from the then-66 year-old RN at student health services.

Then again, maybe it was one of the blood transfusions I had in Dallas within the year or two before that event, but they don't line up with the apparent "seroconversion illness."  Dammit!  Then I could have labelled myself an "innocent victim."  Dammit!  Dammit!
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline Hard Times

  • Member
  • Posts: 113
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2007, 01:00:20 PM »
i got mine while getting a tattoo , back in the eightys , what a decade!
what a bunch of nit picken bitches !!!!
question every thing ! you just might get the right answer !
i thought this was a site for open discussion, & things that matters !  (info, how others handle things, & so on)
so what if some one starts a topic , it's there choice .   if you don't like it go some wheres else !!!
Your Body Is What You Are.
Your Soul Is Who You Are.

Offline joemutt

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,042
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #58 on: June 18, 2007, 06:06:02 PM »
I bet you were the one choosing "others" option in the poll. LOL  :D

Juan Carlos

(happy of living in a free world)
No I didnt take the poll, I took the Fifth.  :-*

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,239
  • Ninja Please
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2007, 06:08:05 PM »
Ha!  I just had to take the poll to see the "results" -- over 1 in 8 contracting HIV through oral sex suggests an amazing concentration of such incidents...

It's interesting isn't it? The science doesn't support it. There aren't any documented cases but lo and behold they're all here in our very own forums.

MtD

/edited for an just awoken typo/
« Last Edit: June 18, 2007, 06:37:40 PM by matty.the.damned »

Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #60 on: June 18, 2007, 06:11:48 PM »
Mine came in a Happy Meal.  I was SO excited!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline pozguy75

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,239
    • POZitively Speaking
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2007, 06:26:16 PM »
I got mine by male order...
« Last Edit: June 18, 2007, 06:35:07 PM by pozguy75 »
Dx 2005
ATRIPLA

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #62 on: June 18, 2007, 06:41:00 PM »
Maybe an organ transplant or a stickadicktomy. Who knows and who cares. I'm just being treated for it.

Offline dtwpuck

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,013
  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #63 on: June 18, 2007, 07:06:31 PM »
I got mine from a toilet seat in a Christian camp
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #64 on: June 18, 2007, 10:25:26 PM »
I wonder if anybody was infected by an Immaculate Erection?
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,811
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2007, 08:29:04 AM »
if i could relive the 80's i wouldnt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2007, 10:23:06 AM »
I got mine by male order...

POST OF THE YEAR NOMINEE!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline redhotmuslbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 605
  • A genuine certified freak of nature, and a hot one
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2007, 10:35:22 AM »
I got mine from a toilet seat in a Christian camp


That's a good one, Puck!  Can I share some of mine with you?
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline redhotmuslbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 605
  • A genuine certified freak of nature, and a hot one
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2007, 10:42:18 AM »
Mine came in a Happy Meal.  I was SO excited!


Ha!  Amazing that since posting yesterday I've had vivid, full-body recall of my "suspect encounter."  The way Lars rimmed me while I deep-throated, it's difficult to see who had the Happy Meal!  The texture of his moderate blond fur has felt very real and presentbetween my fingers, on my lips, and grinding into my back.  I've gotten myself off three times already this morning, just dwelling in the experience.

I'd do the Eighties again, sure.  This time, no sickness and death, no drugs and STDs, no hustling (can I still keep the money?) and no partner violence, though.  The music was better, the men hotter, and my butt was perkier

Cheers,
David
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2007, 11:01:21 AM »
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline milker

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2007, 11:04:19 AM »

Ha!  Amazing that since posting yesterday I've had vivid, full-body recall of my "suspect encounter."  The way Lars rimmed me while I deep-throated, it's difficult to see who had the Happy Meal!  The texture of his moderate blond fur has felt very real and presentbetween my fingers, on my lips, and grinding into my back.  I've gotten myself off three times already this morning, just dwelling in the experience.

For some reason it took me a good minute to figure out how you were rimmed while deep-throating ??? Am I forgetting sex already ???

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline jack

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,578
  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2007, 11:38:41 AM »
Here we go again. Science is not a poll or questionnaire. Science is rigorous testing and trial.  Asking 200 or 2000 people to go home and have no oral sex and then come back for hiv testing in a year is not science, it is worse than pure fiction. It is no different and no more reliable than the telephone polls or newspapers polls on other subjects.  It would only be science if participants were in a controlled environment that recorded all sexual activity. Thats science,everything else is just conjecture,consensus,and speculation. I dont mind people saying there is a general consensus among hivers that you cant get hiv from performing oral sex and swallowing cum. I do mind people saying it is based on science. Its just not true.


Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2007, 12:21:17 PM »
I dont mind people saying there is a general consensus among hivers that you cant get hiv from performing oral sex and swallowing cum. I do mind people saying it is based on science. Its just not true.



But Jack, dear, it is based on science - including the studies you've just discredited. It's also based on what we know about the science of transmission on the cellular level.

Ann
 
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2007, 02:26:27 PM »
I haven't discredited any studies. I just said they aren't science. They are results from questionaires. That isnt science. There are no controls. To have a truly scientific study on the matter you would have to monitor people 24/7. I dont believe that is being done.
I guess I get sorta of pissed cause I know how I got this virus,yet I have people telling me it is scientifically impossible based on how the virus acts in a test tube or from group studies via questionaires with no controls.
It reminds me of my Drs. when they told me my hump was not from the drugs, or the reason my VL wasnt going up was because I wasnt following the regimen. Bullshit.
Studies may show that HIV is not transmitted orally but those studies are not scientific in any form or manner until you can prove participants are or arent using safe sex, and what kind of sex they are having. You just dont take a persons word for it and call it science.

Offline JPinLA

  • Member
  • Posts: 148
  • Cheers!
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #74 on: June 19, 2007, 03:26:18 PM »
Jack - science takes many forms, including epidemiological study (the questionaire type of methods you are speaking of) as well as laboratory research.  Each are considered to be scientific and are used to answer different aspects of questions and each has its own set of limitations. 

You are correct in the sense that sometimes what occurs in a lab does not translate to what occurs in the body but to call one science and other not is not correct.

JP (who is a biological scientist and works extensively with epidemiology on a daily basis)

PS  - many epidemiological studies are well controlled and/or the analysis of the data also well controlled in order to make the appropriate conclusions.  It may not always be obvious until you look deeper into the studies.
11/06 - Diagnosed - VL/5784 & CD4 326
2/07 - VL/6000 & CD4 290 2/07
3//07 -Began Truvada/Viramune 
4/07 VL/undetectable and CD4 320 22%
7/07 VL/undetectable and CD4 286 22%
11/07 VL/undetectable and CD4 302 26%

Offline redhotmuslbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 605
  • A genuine certified freak of nature, and a hot one
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #75 on: June 19, 2007, 03:59:48 PM »
Studies may show that HIV is not transmitted orally but those studies are not scientific in any form or manner until you can prove participants are or arent using safe sex, and what kind of sex they are having. You just dont take a persons word for it and call it science.

WHAT????!!!!    You're contradicting yourself within this post and in the context of your other posts.

David
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline dixieman

  • Member
  • Posts: 889
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #76 on: June 19, 2007, 04:59:54 PM »
I was in a monogamous relationship for 5 years... after 4 hiv test...in a time period of two years with each of us testing  neg.... why play safe? Well I'll tell you why... my ex with the big dick was dipping all over town... while I was monogamous... he left me with a lifelong gift... I was bitter for a long time... now he's with full blown aids... broke... living in NYC... asking for money... from family, friends and even myself... While I'm living an extremely comfortable existence... thru inheritance and finally I think I've met the man of my dreams... I'll see how this goes... still counting coins but, what is money without someone you love to share with... the one I'm seeing is a keeper... wish me luck!

Offline Ann

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  • Member
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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #77 on: June 19, 2007, 05:16:00 PM »
Jack,

I'm not talking about what happens in test tubes. I'm talking about the fact that hiv can only latch onto and infect a few very specific cell types and these cell types are rather scare in the oral cavity. They may not be totally absent, but hiv has little chance of bumping into these few cells while intact and able to infect. Hiv is very fragile and there are over a dozen different proteins and enzymes present in saliva that render hiv unable to infect.

The studies you reference didn't involve one-off questionnaires given to just any-old-body. The participants were carefully screened and followed for as many as ten years in some instances. You make it sound like a questionnaire taken on some street-corner or local charity table in some mall.

You may well have been the rare unlucky person who blew someone with an off-the-chart viral load while you had a throat/tonsil infection. But outside that sort of scenario, it just isn't likely to happen.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ithaca_Nights

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #78 on: June 19, 2007, 06:11:39 PM »
I got mine from unprotected anal sex of which I still participate in and enjoy!

Offline jack

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,578
  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #79 on: June 19, 2007, 06:15:43 PM »
Whatever. I have HIV. I know how I got it. I still dont think you can call a test scientific unless you know for sure that participants arent practicing safe sex. I remember a trial for an HIV vaccine several years ago in Thailand,where the results were judged rubbish because of controls similar to these blow job studies I have read about here. The problem is you dont know what people are doing in private. There is no way to prove they are having oral sex or if they are and using condoms unless you are watching them. I dont understand what screening or staying in touch has to with what I am talking about. 
I also wonder about the ethics of promoting a trial that puts negs with positives and tells them to fuck and suck away with no protection. I guess the ends justifies the means,not because they got the results they wanted, but because in some quarters this is apparently defined as science.
I guess the only trial or study I would consider science,given my experience and resulting condition, is a trial where you had negs performing oral on positives and some one would have to verify it. Then you would also have to worry about these same neg people having unprotected sex with people outside of the study and contacting hiv. There are so many ways to corrupt the results it isnt even worth talking about without someone spending every waking hour watching the participants. I guess you could round everyone up once a week in a big room and have everyone suck away to make sure they are doing it and not using protection.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 06:17:29 PM by jack »

Offline fondeveau

  • Member
  • Posts: 425
Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #80 on: June 19, 2007, 07:11:29 PM »
Amazingly a topic discussed at United Churches of Christ throughout the nation on June 7, 2007.  Naw, naw, we don't think milker is God nor do we believe that his posts are the infallible Word of God.  Rather, read the rest of the story:

Focus Scripture
Luke 7:36-8:3

One of the Pharisees asked Jesus to eat with him, and he went into the Pharisee's house and took his place at the table. And a woman in the city, who was a sinner, having learned that he was eating in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster jar of ointment. She stood behind him at his feet, weeping, and began to bathe his feet with her tears and to dry them with her hair. Then she continued kissing his feet and anointing them with the ointment.

Now when the Pharisee who had invited him saw it, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would have known who and what kind of woman this is who is touching him—that she is a sinner."

Jesus spoke up and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." "Teacher," he replied, "speak." "A certain creditor had two debtors; one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they could not pay, he cancelled the debts for both of them. Now which of them will love him more?" Simon answered, "I suppose the one for whom he cancelled the greater debt." And Jesus said to him, "You have judged rightly."

Then turning towards the woman, he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has bathed my feet with her tears and dried them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore, I tell you, her sins, which were many, have been forgiven; hence she has shown great love. But the one to whom little is forgiven, loves little." Then he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." But those who were at the table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

Soon afterwards he went on through cities and villages, proclaiming and bringing the good news of the kingdom of God. The twelve were with him, as well as some women who had been cured of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, and Joanna, the wife of Herod's steward Chuza, and Susanna, and many others, who provided for them out of their resources.

Focus Meditation
by Kate Huey

It's very common these days, not just in church but in society in general, to hear the phrase, "We're all sinners." Usually it's in connection with the struggle of the churches to deal with accepting or not accepting gay folks, but it could also apply to, say, divorced and remarried people (which used to be much more scandalous than it is now) or people who have been in prison (their sentence is never really over in the minds of some folks) or people who are living with HIV/AIDS (we tend to judge people for how they got sick). In any case, we still think there is a double standard of "sinnerhood," if you will: there are sinners, and then there are sinners.

In other words, in this story, the woman who washes Jesus' feet out of extravagant gratitude and love is a notorious sinner in the town. She's really a "sinner with a capital S." Simon the religious leader may be a sinner because "we're all sinners," but that's different. His status as a sinner doesn't make him unworthy (in his own eyes or presumably, in the eyes of Jesus) to have Jesus as a guest, along with certain other preferred guests, and it certainly doesn't put him above judging the intruder and even judging Jesus himself. He finds a judgment on Jesus in the scene before him. He's not moved or touched by the woman's love and tenderness, and he's not impressed by Jesus' lack of discernment and, if you will,  taste. In fact, he's so busy judging that he forgets to take care of the basics of hospitality himself, so it's ironic that the man with all the resources at his command (we can almost picture the setting in his comfortable home) doesn't use them for the sake of his guest, and then he turns a blind eye to the grace of a lowly woman entering uninvited into his little party. If Jesus used the term "debts" to speak of the relief of being forgiven (and how many of us wouldn't love to be forgiven all our debts, financial and otherwise?), it's as if this man Simon hasn't gone online lately to check his credit card balance and doesn't know just how deep he's in trouble.

Of course, the real twist can be for us, reading the text today. We love the intruder woman and want to identify with her, right? Sometimes it's hard to find the character we connect with most closely in a story from the Bible. In the prodigal son story, for example, when we take the side of the older brother who's been working hard and doing the right thing all along and has a right to feel outrage at a party being thrown for his good-for-nothing brother, we forget that we probably resemble the prodigal son much more than the righteous older brother. But in this story and in the church and in our society, we may find ourselves behaving more like the Pharisee than the open-hearted woman returning in gratitude, even though we find ourselves judging him in our own hearts. Ironically, it's the woman in this story who has both power and freedom: she does what she wants to do, from the bottom of her heart, and she is free of worry about what people think or the propriety of her actions. Rebecca J. Kruger Gaudino sees in the woman's humility an awareness of God's presence that we might all strive to achieve: "From this foundational principle that reorients our lives from self to divine Presence, all the other principles flow: how we bear ourselves, how we speak, how we live in community, and to what degree we may reveal ourselves to others. In all things, we live out of the humility that comes in recognizing God's presence among us" (New Proclamation Year C 2007).

Simon, unfortunately, wasn't in tune with God's presence in the midst of his party, in the grace experienced by this woman forgiven, the wisdom and tender love of Jesus, who understood and was deeply touched by her gratitude, and his own need for God's mercy and understanding, which were available to him in the person of Jesus, right there before his eyes. Instead, his eyes were clouded by judgment and misjudgment,and he missed a golden opportunity for grace. So where do we stand, in this story? And with whom do we stand? Are we missing something as we work hard to draw lines and pass judgment? What about our hospitality? Are there lines drawn there, or is everyone really, truly welcome, even if they upset the schedule and didn't make it onto the guest list? Are we so busy with the tasks of hospitality (making coffee, setting things up) that we forget the heart of hospitality, and neglect to look at each person, where they are, recognize them as a child of God (even if they are a "fellow sinner") and extend a warm and heartfelt welcome to them?

This passage is also a powerful text about giving, in more than one way. The concluding verses, which really open the next section of the Gospel, have a short but illustrative description of the missionary travels of Jesus and "the twelve," along with "some women," and including "many others, who provided for them out of their resources." Faithful support of mission is evident in the earliest accounts of the church. However, the extravagance of the grateful woman, the known "sinner," is just as much an example to us as the quietly faithful followers who supported Jesus' ministry.

When have you given extravagantly, without thought of cost or "prudence," or of what others might think? How might we see generosity – including our giving to God's mission through the church – as abundantly, extravagantly, freely exercised, springing irresistibly from a profound inner need to express what we feel in response to God’s mercy and goodness in our lives? Do you have that kind of gratitude and awareness of God's movement in your life? Why or why not? How is the church called to nurture this sense, this response, to all that God is doing in our individual and collective lives?

Offline Bucko

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Re: How did you get infected?
« Reply #81 on: June 19, 2007, 09:43:55 PM »

I'd do the Eighties again, sure.  This time, no sickness and death, no drugs and STDs, no hustling (can I still keep the money?) and no partner violence, though.  The music was better, the men hotter, and my butt was perkier


Aside from the fact that I've never had much of an ass, I'll agree with this in its entirety.

And, as I've stated many many many many times before, I was most probably infected before condoms were proposed, having begun my sexual career at the age of 17 in 1977. I bottomed throughout my teens and fucked like a cage of Bonobo monkies after that. By 1992 I'd stopped counting my losses at 60 dead.

Occasionally I get into the torturous mindfuck of which one infected me/which one did I infect? This is a dead-end road that leads nowhere and is generally the result of one too many cocktails and/or the use of cannabis.

Brent
(Who thinks this thread went marvelously evil for a spell)

Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

 


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