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Author Topic: Testing timing opinions, anyone?  (Read 5448 times)

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Offline Penitent Idiot

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Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« on: June 01, 2007, 01:20:54 AM »
Hi, new here and cutting to the chase:
I went through a phase where I went through massage parlors, from about September 2006 until March 2007. I was an idiot and I regret it but at least I was using latex condoms.

March 12, 2007 had sex with a woman who claimed that a) this was her first "job" as a massage parlor attendant b) she has had a previous and a current boyfriend c) never used condoms before and d) just gave birth to a child from previous boyfriend. She gave me oral and kissed me passionately (french) but I didn not reciprocate. We then started having sex but stopped after the condom slipped off inside of her (about 5 min). We then put on another condom and had vaginal sex (about 10-15 min) until I ejaculated inside. Upon withdrawing, I saw that the condom had slipped AGAIN. Anyway she goes to the shower, yanks both condoms out, I shower and leave.

At least one more episode after that, with condom.

Then I grew scared about HIV and stuff. No symptoms whatsover except for some colds that are attributatble to other factors like weather changes. I have some lymphadenopathy but they were present before any risky activity was engaged in. I tested for HIV via 3rd generation EIA at approximately 5 weeks (April 16) after (didn't consult anyone, just went in a private hospital and asked for the test). Negative.

Now on May 31, went ahead for a test at 80 days.  Negative.

Comments please?

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2007, 01:30:16 AM »
Penitent,

Ok, so the rubber slipped off. The risk of you having been infected with HIV as a result of this encounter is extraordinarily low. You would have been protected until the condom came off and in any event HIV is not an easy virus to transmit, especially from female to male.

If I were you, I'd consider the 80 day result to be conclusive. Yes, I know that the window period is in fact 13 weeks, and if you're really concerned you can go and test then, but I'm pretty sure you'll get another negative result.

You should know, however, that other STD's such as chlamydia and gonorrhoea are much more prevalent and easier to transmit than HIV. All sexually active people should have a full STD screen at least once a year. Twice is even better. If it's been a while since your last full screen or if you've never had one before you should make an appointment with your doctor or local clinic. A full screen will include an HIV antibody test.

Also, please take the time to read our Welcome Thread which contains links to our testing and transmission lessons.

MtD

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2007, 01:37:24 AM »
Think I should retest after two weeks or just wait till September (6 months)

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2007, 01:54:45 AM »
I really think you should have a full STD screen and don't wait until September. The window period for HIV testing is 13 weeks not 6 months. So in the next couple of weeks.

MtD

Offline Ann

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2007, 05:18:27 AM »
Pen,

It sounds as though you could use a refresher course on the proper use of condoms. Check out the three links in my signature line, especially the first one, where you'll find information on condom sizes. A correctly used condom rarely breaks or slips down.

I'm in total agreement with Matty as regards your hiv testing - the result is unlikely to change. Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus and the odds were in your favour of testing negative.

I'm also in agreement with Matty that you should get yourself a full STI panel done, the sooner the better. Not all sexually transmitted infections will have obvious symptoms, so testing is the way to go.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

And by the way, don't beat yourself up over using sex workers. Just keep using those condoms - correctly - and you'll be fine.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2007, 07:51:15 AM »
Thanks for the advice.  I'm happy with my HIV testing but I will be testing for other STIs!

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2007, 08:02:42 AM »
Penitent,

Good to hear you're getting tested for STI's. I'm glad that you've found this exchange to be helpful.

MtD

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2007, 12:07:36 AM »
Hi I'm back.  Just something to ease my fears.  My fear now is having sex with my wife...

The only real exposure was when my condom slipped right? everything else, knowing that the condom didn't fail (grossly intact, semen nicely snug inside the tip) is not even an hiv consideration.

(STI's all clear btw, yay!)

besides, the 80 day negative covered the slipped condom incident...

Man I'm still a wreck, but my wife says "you don't have it, I don't have it."

I guess I still haven't forgiven myself...

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2007, 12:12:17 AM »
Penitent,

I really don't think HIV is an issue here. But before you go having unprotected sex with your wife, you should probably make sure that you're free of other STD's. Given that this is a slipped condom situation, I doubt it's going to be a problem, but it's wise to be sure.

You have had a full STD screen, haven't you?

MtD

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2007, 12:20:11 AM »
yup! took your advice and had one right after.

truth to be told I slipped twice since that incident while my wife was out of town.  In fact, I decided to get counselling to examine my CSW seeking behavior.  I know you guys don't judge, but I judge myself...

so after getting my head together my questions are:

Do I need to test again for HIV after
1) unprotected insertive oral
2) protected oral then same condom protected vaginal - I'm not sure what a broken condom looks like but the CSW actually commented that there was a LOT of semen in the tip.  I assume that means that there were no leaks.  Anyway I got freaked out afterwards (I know, I should have gotten freaked out BEFORE) and then asked how they get tested.  She said they get blood tests when they start, ( she started four days earlier) but could not elaborate what blood tests.  They also do urine drug tests and speculum exam weekly (this was a classy middle-of-the-pack massage place)

I know in my mind there is no need to test but my guilt is interfering with my mental thinking.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2007, 07:11:18 AM »
Pen,

As getting a blowjob is not a risk for hiv infection and condoms protect against hiv infection, you do not need to test for hiv following these incidents.

Condoms really do prevent hiv infection. My eight year relationship with an hiv negative man is testament to that fact.

If you haven't already, please read through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence. Your feelings about your actions with sex workers is not something we can deal with here, but as long as you use condoms with them (or anyone else outside your marriage) you will avoid hiv infection.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2007, 07:43:25 AM »
Ann, Matty, I appreciate the time you spend answering mundane questions such as mine.  I am also gaining new insights into my CSW "addiction" and my relationship with my wife.  She knows about my previous "misadventures" but not about the recent one.

Anyway that is beyond the topic of this board.  Again, I thank you.

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2007, 01:56:41 AM »
Hi just wanted to add an anecdote. I spoke to an infectious diseases specialist here.  She said she has had two cases where the only REPORTED exposure was a single condomed encounter.  Of course, this scared me, but I recall that maybe, just maybe, those two cases were lying about it.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2007, 04:16:48 AM »
Pen,

People say the darnedest things, eh? Many people cannot bring themselves to admit to unprotected intercourse and many people forget things they did under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. As long as society maintains its prudish, judgemental attitude to sexual activity, we're going to have people being economical with the truth when it comes to accounting for their hiv infection.

Once again, you did not have a risk.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2007, 08:32:02 AM »
Thanks again.  I've also started getting counselling for my irrational fears and guilt trip.  I'm beginning to gain a lot of insights and would like to share some of them.  So many docs have told me, and you guys have told me, and the people at medhelp have told me that I have no risk.  Why was it so hard for me to trust and have faith in the facts and in hiv science? Then I realized during counselling - it was because I had no more faith in myself after what happened.

You guys are a great help.  Keep up the good work, please include me in your prayers as I include all of you in mine.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2007, 08:57:12 AM »
Fortunately feelings aren't facts. So no matter what your feelings are about these experiences, the fact is you have used a condom for intercourse and none of the other activities you mentioned would put you at risk for HIV transmission.

Avoid surfing the net for other (mis)information. It will only stir your anxiety level and to no good purpose. You've gotten the real deal here in terms of risk and non-risk.

As you seem to realize, the emotional aspects of your incidents are something for you to work through with a professional.

Just make sure you keep those condoms handy and that you use one everytime if you have intercourse outside of your marriage again. Also, there are other STDs out there, some of which can be acquired by skin to skin contact. So if you are sexually active outside of your relationship it would probably be a good idea to have a full STD panel done at least every six months. I suggest that just as a precaution.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: July 06, 2007, 08:58:57 AM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2007, 11:34:43 PM »
Hello again and thank you for your advice.  This isn't so much me questioning your advice as me trying to analyze apparently conflicting ideas.  Teak at medhelp has said one time exposure with condom is no risk.  Dr. Handsfield has said the same thing, Dr. Bob at thebody.com too, and so have you guys.

Yet studies exist saying that Condoms are sometimes only 60% effective, with max estimate at 97 %.  Of course, by now I am well aware of the studies that say 100% effectivity rate.

Now, I've thought about it and I came to this conclusion, and am asking for your opinions about this conclusion.  Those studies are never about single one time exposures but about serodiscordant couples having sex lots of times over extended periods of time.  Therefore, while the chances of actually getting HIV are much higher overall and the chances of underreported slip ups and condom failures are also much higher overall.

I'm guessing that this is also the very reason that one time exposures do not warrant testing but that sexually active people need to screen anyway, because frequent anonymous sex also increases the chances of unconscious slip ups? But in my case, I am quite sure that the condom was properly used (no penetration before putting on the condom) and did not break (semen all inside at the tip), and therefore the advice that all you guys gave (from three websites and a plethora of experts, no less) is FINALLY starting to sink in.

Again, my thanks.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2007, 04:40:13 AM »
The reason they are not effective 100%. Inconsistently used from start to finish and condom failure mainly due to not using enough water base lube or correct condom size. Incorrect use of a condom ie. condom doubling.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2007, 04:45:52 AM »
Yet studies exist saying that Condoms are sometimes only 60% effective, with max estimate at 97 %.

Pen,

If you're citing the study I think you're citing, it was funded by a religious organisation - one that doesn't want you having sex outside of a traditional, heterosexual marriage. I never committed the details of that study to memory, once I discovered the source and the fact that it was more propaganda than serious science.

Condoms prevent hiv infection, when used correctly and consistently.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2007, 10:05:19 PM »
"Weller, S. and Davis, K. Condom effectiveness in reducing heterosexual HIV transmission. The Cochrane Library, Issue 2. Oxford: Update Software (2003).
This article reviewed 14 studies with data about sexually active HIV serodiscordant heterosexual couples and information about condom usage with the goal of determining condom effectiveness in reducing heterosexual HIV transmission. The review focused in particular on seroconversions (people with HIV-infected partners who became HIV-positive over the course of the studies) among people who "always" used condoms and those who "never" used condoms. The reviewers concluded that consistent use of condoms results in an 80 percent reduction of HIV transmission."

But upon reading the abstract, the study could not account for proper or improper use, and could not account for whether latex or lambskin were used every time!


Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2007, 10:15:41 PM »
Penitent,

The study you refer to is a review of other studies into the effectiveness of condoms as a means of preventing HIV transmission. It didn't do any substantial research of it's own. I personally would tend to discount a study on this subject which is as old as the one you cite, ie 4 years. You should also be aware that simply reading the abstract is not enough.

Irrespective of this, we base our advice on the latest peer reviewed scientific evidence. The lessons sections which we use as a base to answer questions from people such as yourself is reviewed by medical and scientific experts. There's a reason we're considered to be the premier HIV/AIDS website.

Now you can cite all the studies you want. Our advice to you will not change. If we thought you were at risk we'd tell you. We're in the business of seeing this epidemic brought to an end. As Andy Velez told you:

Avoid surfing the net for other (mis)information. It will only stir your anxiety level and to no good purpose. You've gotten the real deal here in terms of risk and non-risk.

You need to seek the help of a mental health professional regarding your fears about HIV. We simply cannot provide you with that level of support.

MtD

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2007, 10:26:05 PM »
My apologies if it seemed I was questioning you.  I was actually quoting the study and then pointing out WHY IT IS LESS RELIABLE than other studies.  It could not account for proper or improper use!  It could not even account for what TYPE of condoms were used!  Hence, their conclusions are DEFINITELY going to be less than 99%.  Whereas other studies show zilch, zero, nada transmission if condoms are PROPERLY used.

To reiterate, I wasn't questioning you, but trying to point out why this study came up with that number and why your advice is still the most sound around!

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2007, 11:31:44 PM »
Hi I just want to say that the advice you guys gave me is finally starting to really sink in.  I know I must have been a pain with my nervousness and all.  I know you are doing a great service in trying to help us worried wells yet sometimes I feel we WWs are being insensitive to the realities that you guys face everyday of your lives.  May God bless you and keep you close to His heart.

I sleep better now, am laughing with my wife again and worry about things worth worrying about.  I don't plan to test because of one blowjob and one protected incident with a CSW.  And I truly don't plan to continue being sexually "active" anymore.  May God help me with that.

Matty, Rod, Ann, Andy, everyone - again, God bless you all.

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2007, 12:10:29 AM »
Hi all, haven't posted here in a while.  I know it's redundant but I'm starting to get nervous again about this whole pseudo-exposure.  It's so much easier for me to tell people on medhelp that protected sex is no risk yet sometimes I can't help wondering if I'm the 1 in 10,000,000 (my estimate) who will get HIV despite unprotected blowjob and protected sex.

Forgive me, it's just that emotions peek in once in a while.  I've kinda decided to try not to think of things until week 13 (am in week 6 now) and then decide if I want to test or not... yet I feel I'll be throwing away money for a foregone conclusion.

Sigh. I'm so nuts and I'm never straying again.

Offline Bucko

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2007, 12:47:04 AM »
Hi all, haven't posted here in a while.  I know it's redundant but I'm starting to get nervous again about this whole pseudo-exposure.  It's so much easier for me to tell people on medhelp that protected sex is no risk yet sometimes I can't help wondering if I'm the 1 in 10,000,000 (my estimate) who will get HIV despite unprotected blowjob and protected sex.


Sigh. I'm so nuts and I'm never straying again.

Penny-
You have just summed up the whole reason why you are feeling so terrible. You are feeling guilt from stepping out.

The "risks" that I have highlighted simply don't add up to any possible exposure to HIV. It doesn't happen. Period.

Brent
(Who hopes Penny accepts our sage advice)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2007, 01:15:39 AM »
Left brain and right brain duke it out from time to time.  I know it was a pseudo-exposure that's why I called it such.  Sometimes I'm just like a frigging child who needs reassurance from esteemed elders...

Logic wins today.. again.

Thanks Bucko

Offline Bucko

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2007, 02:34:24 AM »
Left brain and right brain duke it out from time to time.  I know it was a pseudo-exposure that's why I called it such.  Sometimes I'm just like a frigging child who needs reassurance from esteemed elders...

Logic wins today.. again.

Thanks Bucko

It's not so much left/right brain as thinking with your derriere, Penny.

Brent
(Who is a right-brainer himself)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2007, 03:16:18 AM »
the only french I know is french dressing but I think I can assume what you meant. ;D
by left vs right brain I mean logic vs emotion

logic "I was protected.  I have no risk"

emotion "I'm an evil, evil, cheating bastard and deserve to be punished, so I'm sure I'm the 1 in 10,000,000 who gets infected despite the odds"

that's what I mean

Offline Ann

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2007, 04:59:00 AM »
Pen,

Maybe you'd be better able to put this behind you if you stayed off hiv websites, including this one and especially including giving "advice" on medhelp.

One of the reasons we don't allow people from this forum to stay on and give advice is because of what is happening to you. We've seen people do it over and over again, back when we used to allow this sort of activity. It's a common pattern - have a scare, get over scare, stay on to "help", begin obsessing over own scare again, freak out, more tests, more unbelieved negative results... it's a vicious cycle.

Do yourself a favour. Other than remembering to use condoms outside your marriage, put hiv out of your mind. Stay off hiv internet sites and get on with your life. If you have a difficult time doing that, seek counseling so you can learn to control your hiv anxieties and thoughts.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2007, 10:22:16 PM »
You're right. I was okay for several weeks until last tuesday because it was 6 weeks.  Ironically, most of the advice I gave on medhelp was on how to pass the time without worrying... then this catches up to me. 

Thing is, I haven't tested yet and I probably will at the 13th week just to get my foregone negative and make it official.

Offline Penitent Idiot

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2007, 11:49:59 PM »
Finally really sinking in.  I have had no risk, I do not have HIV.  Protected sex is protected, and getting a blowjob is not a risk unless the other guy has a bleeding mouth from having a tooth extracted and he bites the receiver. (just kidding).

Now for a follow up theoretical question:

what if I'm getting acupuncture treatment and the doctor accidentally pricks me with a needle that he just took out from the guy next to me?  Assuming the other patient is HIV positive, this is still little to no risk, right? 

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2007, 11:56:09 PM »
what if I'm getting acupuncture treatment and the doctor accidentally pricks me with a needle that he just took out from the guy next to me?  Assuming the other patient is HIV positive, this is still little to no risk, right?

Oh yeah Idiot, you're getting the message. Sheesh!

You've been with us long enough to know that's a bullshit scenario. You need to check out the posting guidelines and see what happens to people who continue to post about non-risk or just plain silly things.

MtD

Offline Penitent Idiot

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  • Posts: 19
Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2007, 12:07:49 AM »
Was just asking about this coz it almost happened to me and the doctor was so apologetic...

Sorry to bother you with it.

Anyway, thanks again.


Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2007, 04:55:34 AM »
Pen,

What happened to the counseling you were receiving back in July? I suggest you make another appointment, pronto. I've noticed you lurking lately and perhaps a time out is just what you need. Continue with this unhealthy hiv obsession and that's what you'll get.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Penitent Idiot

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  • Posts: 19
Re: Testing timing opinions, anyone?
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2007, 12:41:08 AM »
TAlked to my counsellor again and he just said that it's natural for the creepy crawlies to resurface from time to time.  You're right though, sorry to bother you guys with it.

 


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