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Author Topic: poz btm/neg top and bb sex  (Read 6133 times)

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Offline woodshere

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  • ain't no shame in my game
poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« on: May 30, 2007, 11:30:41 AM »
So I was on line late yesterday afternoon and this guy hits me up saying I look familiar.  I immediately recognize him as someone I sucked off several times 12 years or so ago. (In spite to many partners to keep count of, I never forget the good ones)  We play the cat and mouse game and then I finally tell him how we "know" each other and he said, "Yeah, I knew those lips looked familiar.  They really were good."  (either he gets few BJs or I am remarkable, I prefer to think the later) In the course of the conversation I tell him I found out I was poz last year.  After the oh i am sorry & how you doing crap and me telling him our escapades while virtually harmless to him occurred long before I was infected he asks, "Well if a guy is negative do you let him fuck you bb".  I told him my basic view - bb with other poz guys, I'll suck a neg guy no condom and as for his question I have never had to deal with it so I wasn't sure.  Finally surprise of all surprises he asks me over for a repeat performance.  I gave him another memorable BJ and went on my way.

Although we didn't fuck, I am sure the opportunity with someone will present itself for me as a poz btm to be topped bb by a neg top.  In my state legally I have met all my obligations by informing him of my status and it is his choice as to what he wants to do.  Knowing the the odds of him contracting HIV from me are slim to none and I fulfilled my legal obligations I should have no problems with a bareback free for all.  However, why do I have an uneasy feeling? My brain knows the risk is very low for him, but my heart says that even if he wants to bb, I should not allow him, out of a concern for his well being no matter how slight the risk is to him.  But then I think, I have done what I am supposed to do, he knows the risk, it his decision.  I believe 100% that we all must take some sort of personal responsibility for our actions.  In my gut I know what i will do.  At least I'll be free from sexual tension in dealing with my emotions on the issue.

Woods
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline redhotmuslbear

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2007, 12:17:18 PM »
Let me get this out of the way first..... and why haven't I gotten one of those BJs?   ;D


Now, here's my take on the scenario you provided and your thoughts on it...

1.  Who says the guy is REALLY HIV-negative?  Over 20 years after ELISA was introduced, we still have people who kid themselves into believing that a test done once is good for life.  Or that results reflect a true picture as of the test date.  Or that fucking raw with innumerable "neg-UB2" partners following a test is going to maintain the result. As far as I am concerned, any man who wants to put his cock up my ass has a drug-resistant overgrowth of virus, so he's going to wear a condom (or I'll use a 'female' condom) and avoid ejaculating inside of me.


2.  What about all of the other potential threats to his health, even if you don't transmit HIV?  As a poz-on-poz BB top I found by too many uncomfortable trips to the doc or a clinic that 'garden-variety' STIs and other bugs that develop urinary tract infections are too plentiful for me to risk one of my most precious body parts.  Are you certain that your Love Canal isn't going to give Mr Dream Dick something else?

Cheers,
David
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline Carolann

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2007, 12:34:56 PM »
I commend you for your honesty.  I once read that the risk of HIV transission bottom to top is something like 6 in 10,000.  How these odds were developed I have no idea.  While topping is less risky than bottoming (sans condom), no health professional I know of would classify it as low or even medium risk.  What I constantly hear is that it is high risk, but less risky than bottoming.

There are documented cases of people who became infected while being the insertive partner. If your friend became infected, he may also then infect others.  HIV often has exponential consequences. 

In the end what you choose to do is your choice alone.  It says good things about you that you put thought into your future actions and you assess the possible outcomes and consequences.

Another point I would like to make is that your health is important as well.  He may in fact have other viral conditions that he could transmit to you (HPV, Hep, Herpes etc) not to mention all those lovely bacterial infections (Syph, Gono, Chylm) .  Factoring in all the possible outcomes will help you arrive at your decision.

On a happy note, it sounds like you have exceptional skills in the oral sex department.  Kudos for that too.

Offline woodshere

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  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2007, 01:21:51 PM »
If one were to consider all the possible STD's and such out there the only safe sex is monogamous sex with someone who you completely trust.  Since that is not in the cards for me at this time I have to decide what risks I am willing to accept and be responsible for myself.  Of course I haven't done a very good job of being responsible, if I had I probably wouldn't be here now.  I guess my question boils down to "Is being responsible for me enough or should I also take on the responsibility of my sex partner."

BTW, David if you are ever in my neighborhood stop by and I'll be happy to show you my talents..... ;)
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Bucko

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    • The Spin Cycle
Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2007, 01:35:45 PM »
Woody-

If I told you that very few (if any) of the bottoms I've met online over the last year have any compunction over the issue you're wrestling with right now would it surprise you?

Conventional wisdom is a tricky thing. It's based on little more than anecdote and intuition but carries the weight of scientifically proven fact among its adherents. And the current conventional wisdom of barebacking is that if the bottom's VL is undetectable then the top's risk is negligible. But even in the plague years of the late-eighties countless friends insisted that the black hand had passed me by owing to my being a strict anal top, as that was the conventional wisdom of the moment, yet here I am.

Your dilemma is the chief reason why I serosort exclusively. If I am never tempted then I'll never broach my ethics in this regard, and there are still plenty of poz bottoms I haven't exhausted yet  ;D

No answers...just perspective...

Brent
(Who walks the line)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline Carolann

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  • Posts: 233
Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2007, 01:58:56 PM »
I am not a religious person, but this line reminds me of paraphrased line from Genesis \\\\\\\"Am I my brother\\\\\\\'s keeper?\\\\\\\"

We have to ask ourselves if the well being of others is our responsibility.  How much would it impact you if you did in fact infect him?  Would you feel that your actions contributed to more suffering in the world, or is this something  you consider to be outside of your hands?  There is a certain point where we are able to foresee the consequences of our actions.  Sometimes the consequences are so far down the road that they are hard to foresee. 

It comes down to weighing the odds of infecting your partner with the consequences of such actions.  We as humans struggle with these issues every day.  A lot of people wouldn\\\\\\\'t give this a second thought, so it speaks highly to your sense of compassion and desire not to hurt others that you are weighing the costs and consequences of any future actions.


  I guess my question boils down to \\\\\\\"Is being responsible for me enough or should I also take on the responsibility of my sex partner.\\\\\\\"
[/quote




« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 02:00:27 PM by Carolann »

Offline woodshere

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  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2007, 02:41:06 PM »
These forums are so valuable.  Thanks to you all for your input.  I think I knew the answer to my question all along I just needed a little prodding.  (excuse the pun).
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Iggy

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2007, 08:53:33 PM »
Quote
We have to ask ourselves if the well being of others is our responsibility.  How much would it impact you if you did in fact infect him?  Would you feel that your actions contributed to more suffering in the world, or is this something  you consider to be outside of your hands?  There is a certain point where we are able to foresee the consequences of our actions.  Sometimes the consequences are so far down the road that they are hard to foresee.

This really struck me.

While I don't believe that we are responsible for the well being of others, I do believe we are responsible for our own actions that may cause harm to others.

Offline LakeEriePoz

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  • Was tested poz late Nov 2006
Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2007, 10:33:13 PM »
I am also a Poz bottom in a monogamous relationship with a negative top.  We used to have bb sex before I seroconverted and both of us long for the day we can do it again without putting him at unusual risk.  He is 30 and I am 59... hopefully there will be a solution before he turns 60.... good luck to you Woody.
Don (seroconverted Nov 06)

Offline dixieman

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2007, 02:59:04 PM »
Woody... What risk are you willing to take upon your health? Everyone has brought up so many issues one being hiv+ have to deal with... that so many do not even give it a secound thought? I myself value my health not to risk having bb sex on a random meaningless screw... no matter how sexually excited we might be... now if I ever meet mr right... in a monogamous relationship... I hope the next driver... gets to ride for life! lol top men are few and far between in the deep south... I'm at the point of becoming a lesbian... lol

Offline David_CA

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  • Joined: March 2006
Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2007, 03:45:49 PM »
This is not to discount the impact that other STD's can have on HIV+ people.  However, I have noticed one thing from the HIV+ people I've met in person where disclosure has taken place.  They have mentioned other STD's that they've had.  Most were very informed about their own health.  It's like they are more in tune with what's going on with their health and with their bodies.  I guess all those Dr. appts. help keep one informed.   

What's particularly strange is that they must have HIVdar... kinda like gaydar.  I can't think of anybody who ever disclosed their HIV+ status to me prior to me being HIV+.  I've had several guys bring it up in conversation.  It's too bad that somebody in the past (the one who infected me)  didn't disclose to me, if he even knew!  Maybe the difference is that these guys aren't just anonymous fucks but guys I'll likely see again socially; many I've seen and talked to on several occasions since disclosing to me. 

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline racingmind

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2007, 05:00:31 PM »
HIV takes all the fun out of sex. :-\   
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline ACinKC

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2007, 05:11:09 PM »
HIV takes all the fun out of sex. :-\   

Not for me it hasnt.  Actually my sex life is 1000% better than it was before I got HIV.  It is what you make it.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2007, 10:56:54 AM »
These forums are so valuable.  Thanks to you all for your input.  I think I knew the answer to my question all along I just needed a little prodding.  (excuse the pun).

 :D you're the horndoggiest minister this side of sodom! i say you're smart enough to take it case-by-case. a kid from school wants to do me, he's poz too and eventually we'll do it but he has a boyfriend and i don't know the boyfriend i.e. i dont know what he has in addition to hiv. case-by-case

Offline milker

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2007, 11:54:36 AM »
I would ask him when was the last time he tested for HIV. I wouldn't be surprised that it was before I was born (and I am very old thank you very much.

There is a "top only" where I live that wants to fuck me. I would let him if he was poz, I refuse to let him while he claims that he is negative. I told him I was poz, he replied "This is why I only top". I asked when he tested, he said he doesn't need to....

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline woodshere

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  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2007, 12:49:41 PM »
I would ask him when was the last time he tested for HIV. I wouldn't be surprised that it was before I was born (and I am very old thank you very much.
There is a "top only" where I live that wants to fuck me. I would let him if he was poz, I refuse to let him while he claims that he is negative. I told him I was poz, he replied "This is why I only top". I asked when he tested, he said he doesn't need to....
Milker.

The guy that got me to thinking about all this is a bb top "only".  I asked him when he finds bb btms to fuck are they poz or do they say they are negative.  He replied "It's never discussed."
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2007, 10:20:58 PM »
The guy that got me to thinking about all this is a bb top "only".  I asked him when he finds bb btms to fuck are they poz or do they say they are negative.  He replied "It's never discussed."

and there lies the rub.  they don't want to know if the parnter is pos but when they get hiv they then think, " I should have know better."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline manhattanman

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2007, 08:57:51 AM »
Woody, put your needs first, or rather your " don't needs" first
you don't need the clap, syph, chlymadia,hep a,b or c, hpv, herpes or another, perhaps resistant starin of hiv (yes I believe in re-infection cross-infection or whatever you call it)
so continue to disclose up front and insist on a condom...for your protection

Offline Angel-Ronnie

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2007, 06:06:45 AM »
Not for me it hasnt.  Actually my sex life is 1000% better than it was before I got HIV.  It is what you make it.

Have to agree with you on this. After I disclosed to the guy I am seeing our sex have been the best I ever had yes sometimes I do miss when we didn't use any protection but now it is compulsory for him to wear protection not only for himself but for my safety as well. As a matter of fact I wouldn't want it any other way since we mean so much to each other at this stage of our lives. He is neg and we will keep it like that and that he knows is not negotiable. Safety = Lots of fun.

Ronnie
Bide the Wiccan law ye must,
In perfect love and perfect trust
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill
An' ye harm none, do what ye will.

What ye send forth comes back to thee,
so ever mind the Law of three,
follow this with mind and heart,
Merry ye meet, and merry ye part.

Offline redhotmuslbear

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Re: poz btm/neg top and bb sex
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2007, 08:49:05 AM »
Safety = Lots of fun.


Amen!  It's all in how you do it,and most of the worst sex I've ever had was during my bb period..... geez, I'm the Renoir of butt piracy now!

What really gets me about bottoms who insist on unprotected sex isn't their disregard for their health but the other crazy stuff that fills their heads.  Number One among them is the idea that they can feel a blob of semen hit the wall of their rectums.

-D
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

 


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