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Author Topic: Why does this HIV chart bother me?  (Read 6200 times)

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Offline thirtysomething

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  • Posts: 124
Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« on: May 22, 2007, 11:40:46 PM »
I'm kinda pissed off with the term 'Death' !


[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Matty the Damned

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  • Posts: 12,160
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2007, 11:47:50 PM »
Why? You ain't gonna live forever doll.

MtD
(Who thinks it doesn't matter what kills ya, ya still end up dead)

Offline northernguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,347
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2007, 12:08:42 AM »
As MtD points out, every living thing's "life chart" is going to end in death.  That's a chart showing untreated HIV progression, right?  So we have treatments, that will extend that.  Even if there was a cure tomorrow, we're still all going to die sometime.
Apr 28/06 cd4 600 vl 10,600 cd% 25
Nov 8/09 cd4 510 vl 49,5000 cd% 16
Jan 16/10 cd4 660 vl 54,309 cd% 16
Feb 17/10 Started Atripla
Mar 7/10 cd4 710 vl 1,076 cd% 21
Apr 18/10 cd4 920 vl 268 cd% 28
Jun 19/10 cd4 450 vl 60 cd% 25
Aug 15/10 cd4 680 vl 205 cd% 27
Apr 3/11 cd4 780 vl <40 cd% 30
Jul 17/11 cd4 960 vl <40 cd%33
April 15/12 cd4 1,010 vl <40 cd% 39
April 20/12 Switched to Viramune + Truvada
Aug 2/12 cd4 1040, vl <40, cd% 38
Oct 19 cd4 1,110 vl <40 cd% 41

Offline leatherman

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  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2007, 12:11:33 AM »
Just curious, where did you get that graph and what year is that data based on?

On a lighter note, how come my graph doesn't look like that? LOL I didn't get any of that nice "latency" period, my OI came way too early, and I've already missed my death (by that chart) by a couple of years.

leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline StrongGuy

  • Member
  • Posts: 492
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2007, 12:14:02 AM »
I wouldn't fret over the chart. It's just showing the average progression of the disease WITHOUT treatment. We all know some progress much faster, and some it takes much longer without meds.

You can't sugarcoat the progression of the disease sans meds. It's a good reminder to keep on top of your health and take a serious look at starting meds when the time is right -- because the progression is what is if you don't get treatment.

:)
"Get your medical advice from Doctors or medical professionals who you trust and know your history."

"Beware of the fortune teller doom and gloomers who seek to bring you down and are only looking for company, purpose and validation - not your best physical/mental interests."

"You know you all are saying that this is incurable. When the real thing you should be saying is it's not curable at the present time' because as we know, the great strides we've made in medicine." - Elizabeth Edwards

Offline milker

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Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2007, 12:15:23 AM »
This chart is showing what 90% of people go through when infected. It shows the acute infection, then the stabilization, then the slow death of cd4s and regrowth of the virus, and death if untreated. The "after balance to death" period was about 10 years for most people.

If you're on meds, this is not relevant.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjasô

Offline thirtysomething

  • Member
  • Posts: 124
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2007, 01:05:42 AM »
I know I'm going to die someday, but while looking at the chart..something clicked in my mind that I'm going to die of HIV (though that might not be true.. I might die of something else as well), and I guess I just got pissed off thinking of past mistakes and this closeted faggoty life that I live..

I'm not on meds and let's see how many years I can live off without them.. According to the chart, I guess it's 8 years.

Leatherman, I got this chart from Wikipedia. Your chart is much better :-)


Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,194
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2007, 04:45:31 AM »
thirtysomething, HIV is not what kills us. It's what follows in the footsteps of HIV that puts the damper on everything. With the meds we have now more than likely you will live out your life span. I won't say normal, but you'll get as OLD or Older than most of us. I have one of those boogers that follows in the foot steps of HIV making me advance to the hole with one foot in and the other on a banana peel. It's just a matter of when and what you do with yourself till the end. I like to think of my hole as being dug in the sand, no matter how much you dig out, that much falls back in. I'm a fighter and I have plans on being here awhile longer.

Offline Basquo

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  • Posts: 3,236
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2007, 07:46:38 AM »
WTF are "constitutional symptoms"?

Offline Central79

  • Member
  • Posts: 527
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2007, 07:47:44 AM »
Hey

This is just the natural course of HIV - the aim is to take drugs before the viral spike at the end of the graph, and the crash in CD4s. I don't think it's news to anybody that uncontrolled HIV infection will kill you right? So lets control it - I personally think life expectancy is gradually reaching the levels of the general population. My favourite study on life expectancy said that an HIV+ person diagnosed at 25 looses about 11 years of life compared with his HIV- counterpart. On current drugs. Who would have thought that 10 years ago?

Something is going to kill you. Personally I don't believe I'm going to die from HIV or the drugs used to treat it. But I maybe wrong. If you don't like your "closeted faggoty life" then maybe you need to make some changes? You need to value something in order to protect and prolong it.

M.

PS - constitutional symptoms are general symptoms. Like tiredness, weight loss, generally feeling shitty. As opposed to specific symptoms like PCP, cytomegalovirus, yada yada yada....
Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Offline puertorico2006

  • Member
  • Posts: 957
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2007, 09:38:26 AM »


Leatherman, I got this chart from Wikipedia. Your chart is much better :-)



Just so you know most universities including mine will not allow you to use sources from wikipedia due to there high rate of being unreliable. I'm pretty sure that chart is about right for someone not on treatment but for most of us with access to decent treatment its irrelevant
Infected Probably: may 2005
Diagnosed: 11/2006

11/28/2006 CD4:309 / VL: 1907 No meds yet
12/27/2006 CD4:339/  VL:1649 No meds yet
  4/28/2007 CD4:550/  VL:1800 No meds :-)

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2007, 09:44:03 AM »
wikipedia unreliable?  CLUTCH THE PEARLS!!!
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline puertorico2006

  • Member
  • Posts: 957
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2007, 09:52:32 AM »
Lol yes ive known professors to tell the students to re-write the article using another source even if the information is correct, if the professor told you not to use wikipedia and finds out you did because the site gave you false information they will give you a flat out F....

Personally i like wikipedia for its convenience in looking up information but i know when to use it and when not to....and even then it should be verified with another reliable source
Infected Probably: may 2005
Diagnosed: 11/2006

11/28/2006 CD4:309 / VL: 1907 No meds yet
12/27/2006 CD4:339/  VL:1649 No meds yet
  4/28/2007 CD4:550/  VL:1800 No meds :-)

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2007, 10:04:38 AM »
Hmmm ... Wackypedia eh?

I'm not on meds and let's see how many years I can live off without them.. According to the chart, I guess it's 8 years.

Thirtysomething,

I went 12 years without meds before HIV hijacked me, but everybody's different - a fact that chart doesn't seem to take into account.

I will eventually die (who won't) but I won't be doing that on anybody's predicted schedule. I'm here today so I live today. After all, tomorrow I might wake up dead and then itíll be too late. ;) You get my meaning I'm sure.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline sweetasmeli

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  • Posts: 1,052
  • Love what you are...
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2007, 10:08:55 AM »
WTF are "constitutional symptoms"?

LOL! :D (at your phrasiology, not your question!)

Ditto. Was just wondering that myself... ???

Melia

PS:
Hmmm ... Wackypedia eh?
:D :D :D Stop it! Never mind HIV, you guys are killing me today! ;D
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 10:11:30 AM by sweetasmeli »
/\___/\       /\__/\
(=' . '=)    (=' . '=)
(,,,_ ,,,)/   (,,,_ ,,,)/ Cats rule!

The difference between cats and dogs is that dogs come when called, whereas cats take a message and get back to you.

Yeia kai hara (health and happiness) to everyone!

Offline planonstaying

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  • Posts: 169
  • Hiv is the FOX,tcells the rabbit, CALL the HOUNDS!
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2007, 10:28:04 AM »
It's a statistical average. HIV disease progression has an enormous variance. I was obsessed and  the more I read  the more frustrated i became about the inability to accurately  predict progression.  Any statistics  are pretty much useless  on a case to case basis for predicting outcomes. My labs are great today. They tell me nothing about my labs 2 yrs from now with any kind of certainty.

As to dieing. my mom had 5 miscarriages before i was born  and  was told not to get pregnant again  2 months into her pregnancy with me.  Predictions of my mortality  predate my birth. Screw Dieing. i am the pitbull,  HIV is the bull.  From addiction issues. depression, sexuality issues  there hasn't been a bull  I couldn't wrestle too the ground yet.  If HIV  kills me it won't be because i surrendered and stopped living and started dieing. I plan on living till the day i die...screw dieing...and yeah i say that with   outrage at the prospect  that some protein encased strands of RNA  will ever run my life.  I have HIV it doesn't have me....at least today ::)  
If someone tells you  potential consequences of a behavior  it  doesn't  mean they jude you or mit    they may just give a shit about you

Offline bimazek

  • Member
  • Posts: 781
Re: Why does this HIV chart bother me?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2007, 12:53:06 AM »
the interesting thing to me is that during that long plateau phase when the cd4s are slowly becoming less and less
 


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