Why does this HIV chart bother me?

   Am I Infected?
   ¿Estoy infectado?
   I Just Tested Poz
   Living With HIV
   Vivir con el VIH
   Someone I Care About Has HIV
   Long-Term Survivors
   Positive Women
   Treatment & Side Effects
   Lipodystrophy
   Nutrition & HIV
   Mental Health
   Research News
   AIDS Activism
   In Memoriam
   Off Topic
   AM Gatherings

Advanced search

[Privacy Warning:]

Welcome to the AIDSmeds/POZ Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page. Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post. The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician. These forums are moderated by AIDSmeds/POZ paid staff and volunteers: David Evans (paid staff), Tim Horn (paid staff), Ann Smith (volunteer) and Andy Velez (paid staff). None of our moderators have any conflict of interests (e.g., personal financial relationships with antiretroviral manufacturers). All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such. Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other AIDSmeds/POZ community forums. We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge. Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured by AIDSmeds/POZ. Para ver la página de inscripción y otros enlaces para navegar foros en español, haz clic aquí. Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

[thirtysomething]

I'm kinda pissed off with the term 'Death' !

[matty.the.damned]

Why? You ain't gonna live forever doll.

MtD
(Who thinks it doesn't matter what kills ya, ya still end up dead)

[northernguy]

As MtD points out, every living thing's "life chart" is going to end in death.  That's a chart showing untreated HIV progression, right?  So we have treatments, that will extend that.  Even if there was a cure tomorrow, we're still all going to die sometime.

[leatherman]

Just curious, where did you get that graph and what year is that data based on?

On a lighter note, how come my graph doesn't look like that? LOL I didn't get any of that nice "latency" period, my OI came way too early, and I've already missed my death (by that chart) by a couple of years.

[StrongGuy]

I wouldn't fret over the chart. It's just showing the average progression of the disease WITHOUT treatment. We all know some progress much faster, and some it takes much longer without meds.

You can't sugarcoat the progression of the disease sans meds. It's a good reminder to keep on top of your health and take a serious look at starting meds when the time is right -- because the progression is what is if you don't get treatment.

[milker]

This chart is showing what 90% of people go through when infected. It shows the acute infection, then the stabilization, then the slow death of cd4s and regrowth of the virus, and death if untreated. The "after balance to death" period was about 10 years for most people.

If you're on meds, this is not relevant.

Milker.

[thirtysomething]

I know I'm going to die someday, but while looking at the chart..something clicked in my mind that I'm going to die of HIV (though that might not be true.. I might die of something else as well), and I guess I just got pissed off thinking of past mistakes and this closeted faggoty life that I live..

I'm not on meds and let's see how many years I can live off without them.. According to the chart, I guess it's 8 years.

Leatherman, I got this chart from Wikipedia. Your chart is much better :-)

[RapidRod]

thirtysomething, HIV is not what kills us. It's what follows in the footsteps of HIV that puts the damper on everything. With the meds we have now more than likely you will live out your life span. I won't say normal, but you'll get as OLD or Older than most of us. I have one of those boogers that follows in the foot steps of HIV making me advance to the hole with one foot in and the other on a banana peel. It's just a matter of when and what you do with yourself till the end. I like to think of my hole as being dug in the sand, no matter how much you dig out, that much falls back in. I'm a fighter and I have plans on being here awhile longer.

[Basquo]

WTF are "constitutional symptoms"?

[Matt Mee]

Hey

This is just the natural course of HIV - the aim is to take drugs before the viral spike at the end of the graph, and the crash in CD4s. I don't think it's news to anybody that uncontrolled HIV infection will kill you right? So lets control it - I personally think life expectancy is gradually reaching the levels of the general population. My favourite study on life expectancy said that an HIV+ person diagnosed at 25 looses about 11 years of life compared with his HIV- counterpart. On current drugs. Who would have thought that 10 years ago?

Something is going to kill you. Personally I don't believe I'm going to die from HIV or the drugs used to treat it. But I maybe wrong. If you don't like your "closeted faggoty life" then maybe you need to make some changes? You need to value something in order to protect and prolong it.

M.

PS - constitutional symptoms are general symptoms. Like tiredness, weight loss, generally feeling shitty. As opposed to specific symptoms like PCP, cytomegalovirus, yada yada yada....

[puertorico2006]

Leatherman, I got this chart from Wikipedia. Your chart is much better :-)

Just so you know most universities including mine will not allow you to use sources from wikipedia due to there high rate of being unreliable. I'm pretty sure that chart is about right for someone not on treatment but for most of us with access to decent treatment its irrelevant

[Miss Philicia]

wikipedia unreliable?  CLUTCH THE PEARLS!!!

[puertorico2006]

Lol yes ive known professors to tell the students to re-write the article using another source even if the information is correct, if the professor told you not to use wikipedia and finds out you did because the site gave you false information they will give you a flat out F....

Personally i like wikipedia for its convenience in looking up information but i know when to use it and when not to....and even then it should be verified with another reliable source

[DanielMark]

Hmmm ... Wackypedia eh?

I'm not on meds and let's see how many years I can live off without them.. According to the chart, I guess it's 8 years.

Thirtysomething,

I went 12 years without meds before HIV hijacked me, but everybody's different - a fact that chart doesn't seem to take into account.

I will eventually die (who won't) but I won't be doing that on anybody's predicted schedule. I'm here today so I live today. After all, tomorrow I might wake up dead and then it’ll be too late. You get my meaning I'm sure.

Daniel

[sweetasmeli]

WTF are "constitutional symptoms"?

LOL! (at your phrasiology, not your question!)

Ditto. Was just wondering that myself...

Melia

PS:

Hmmm ... Wackypedia eh?

Stop it! Never mind HIV, you guys are killing me today!

[planonstaying]

It's a statistical average. HIV disease progression has an enormous variance. I was obsessed and  the more I read  the more frustrated i became about the inability to accurately  predict progression.  Any statistics  are pretty much useless  on a case to case basis for predicting outcomes. My labs are great today. They tell me nothing about my labs 2 yrs from now with any kind of certainty.

As to dieing. my mom had 5 miscarriages before i was born  and  was told not to get pregnant again  2 months into her pregnancy with me.  Predictions of my mortality  predate my birth. Screw Dieing. i am the pitbull,  HIV is the bull.  From addiction issues. depression, sexuality issues  there hasn't been a bull  I couldn't wrestle too the ground yet.  If HIV  kills me it won't be because i surrendered and stopped living and started dieing. I plan on living till the day i die...screw dieing...and yeah i say that with   outrage at the prospect  that some protein encased strands of RNA  will ever run my life.  I have HIV it doesn't have me....at least today  

[bimazek]

the interesting thing to me is that during that long plateau phase when the cd4s are slowly becoming less and less
 


http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12596.new#new