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Author Topic: Disclosure questions.. again...  (Read 14297 times)

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Offline milker

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  • Protected phone sex
Disclosure questions.. again...
« on: May 22, 2007, 09:16:22 PM »
Do you disclose if you know you are going to have protected sex?

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Sdgirl

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2007, 09:21:21 PM »
Disclosure is a personal choice.

For me, regardless of the situation, I would ALWAYS disclose.  I couldn't live with myself otherwise.

But that's my personal choice.
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.  Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.  It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.  We ask ourselves.."Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?  Actually, who are you not to be?"

Offline puertorico2006

  • Member
  • Posts: 957
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2007, 09:22:03 PM »
here we go again  :-* lol.....

Legally in most states you HAVE to disclose no matter what sexual activity you are engaging in.....

Morally i guess that depends....

So far ive always disclosed before any sexual encounter where im recieving oral or anal (a few times ive given oral without disclosing)...based on the risk factor i dont really feel obligated to disclose for oral sex but i do it because i live on a small island and i dont want everyone pissed off at me...so i choose to disclose (so far anyways)

-josh
(who finally got back from his vacation)

Infected Probably: may 2005
Diagnosed: 11/2006

11/28/2006 CD4:309 / VL: 1907 No meds yet
12/27/2006 CD4:339/  VL:1649 No meds yet
  4/28/2007 CD4:550/  VL:1800 No meds :-)

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2007, 09:25:15 PM »
It depends. If I know and like the person, then they already know I have the queer plague so disclosure is irrelevant.

If he's just some nameless piece of meat from a sex joint or a pub then I don't worry. He's not worth the effort.

MtD

Offline romanticcuddler

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    • Who's Positive
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2007, 10:09:30 PM »
i guess for me the first thing I think about is this idea that people aren't responsible for their own behaviors.  I mean with me, the guy who infected me knew he was positive, and at times that really pisses me off... BUT... wait, isn't this my life, shouldn't I have been responsible enough to protect myself and think about my own well being?

I know this theory doesn't apply to all situations, but in general I am split on this in some aspects, for me I disclose,  hell I don't care what people think, BUT... for others, its not as simple as risking the rumors the disconnect from family and friends, so I see both sides of this...

Sometimes I get would you tell a medical person EMT things like that - again i probably would, but if EVERYONE lived by universal precautions there would be no reason (other then to think that maybe the issue was HIV related) to tell anyone - as far as risk.  I hope that makes sense.

Offline milker

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2007, 11:23:30 PM »
i guess for me the first thing I think about is this idea that people aren't responsible for their own behaviors.  I mean with me, the guy who infected me knew he was positive, and at times that really pisses me off... BUT... wait, isn't this my life, shouldn't I have been responsible enough to protect myself and think about my own well being?

I know this theory doesn't apply to all situations, but in general I am split on this in some aspects, for me I disclose,  hell I don't care what people think, BUT... for others, its not as simple as risking the rumors the disconnect from family and friends, so I see both sides of this...

Sometimes I get would you tell a medical person EMT things like that - again i probably would, but if EVERYONE lived by universal precautions there would be no reason (other then to think that maybe the issue was HIV related) to tell anyone - as far as risk.  I hope that makes sense.

No I'm asking if it is protected, he fucks me with a condom, I suck him, he doesn't suck me I don't fuck him. I think Matty's answer is what I'm thinking about too..

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Teresa

  • Member
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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2007, 12:02:02 AM »
I have a question. Just curious..
If you dont disclose and you are having protected vaginal/anal sex and the condom breaks. What do you say or do?

Teresa
Hubby HIV+ 5/5/06
CD4:320
  %: 26.7
 VL: <20
Atripla (started it 8/24/06)
 

Offline milker

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2007, 12:10:06 AM »
Yup Teresa, that's THE main problem I have. Should I "play" on statistics, I've had only 2 condoms break as a bottom in my 20 years of bottoming. But yes, Teresa, that IS the main question in my mind.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline otherplaces

  • Member
  • Posts: 398
  • Mutant Super Hero
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2007, 12:24:42 AM »
My thoughts...

Whether you like it or not, and even if they don't deserve the consideration, it is their right to make an informed decision.  We don't look out for our fellow human beings enough and it makes for a crappy world.  Low risk is not no risk, and fear of rejection is just that...fear.

best,
brian


Offline sweetasmeli

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2007, 01:41:43 AM »
It's a personal choice. Many see there is no need and I can see why.

However - if the time for me to have sex should ever arise again in this lifetime (waaahhh!) - I personally would. For the very reason that Teresa pointed out. I would rather disclose and face rejection and no nookie (Thanks Matty! :-* Was struggling for a synonym for sex...its been so long! :() than not disclose, have nookie and a condom break (which they can and do occasionally) and then be faced with the icky job of having to tell all.

Plus, if they know all beforehand, they can make a fully informed decision.
Just my approach and how I would have liked and would like to be treated too. Even with condoms.

Melia
/\___/\       /\__/\
(=' . '=)    (=' . '=)
(,,,_ ,,,)/   (,,,_ ,,,)/ Cats rule!

The difference between cats and dogs is that dogs come when called, whereas cats take a message and get back to you.

Yeia kai hara (health and happiness) to everyone!

Offline giorgio76

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  • Posts: 9
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2007, 02:53:02 AM »
No... if it's ONLY a sex session and nothing more, i don't. I will be VERY VERY careful. Let's face the truth... u meet someone... and at the same night u are going to have sex with him... do u have the courage to say... " I am hiv+" . I haven't!
I prefer to make him think that i am hypocondriac with protection ( by putting condoms even for a blowjob).

And u know something? Personally, i don't know who passed me the virus... and really i don't hate him whoever is he.  As a gay and sexual active human i had always on my mind the fear of hiv... and everyone should have it.

Offline beefbud

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  • just some flesh caught in this big broken machine"
    • cubster dot com
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2007, 03:26:10 AM »
Well in the state of GA you can go be prosecuted and go to jail if you don't disclose you are hiv+ for any sexual activity.  I disclose before the encounter happens....its their choice to make, i don't care how minimal the risk is. 
"first impressions are cheap auditions"

Offline SASA39

  • Member
  • Posts: 690
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2007, 04:51:17 AM »
If he's just some nameless piece of meat from a sex joint or a pub then I don't worry. He's not worth the effort.
MtD

 ??? , ...............I mean it is OK when you do not have a sex with him , but what if you do ? And he is negative ?
Sorry I`ve had to ask this ........................
                                       Al
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 06:57:24 AM by SASA39 »
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline cubbybear

  • Member
  • Posts: 510
  • Joined August 2005.
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2007, 05:55:57 AM »
I disclose if they ask me outright, or if I know and like them.  If they are an anonymous pick up, as long as its totally safe, then no I don't disclose... they aren't gonna get it from me, so I don't see the need and I don't want every anonymous Tom, Dick or Harry to know my business just so they can tell everyone else.
There's a bear in there!
Positive since 2000
Diagnosed 17/9/2005 CD4 35 VL 293,000
Meds 23/9/2005 Sustiva/Truvada
Currently CD4 232 VL Undetectable

Offline Central79

  • Member
  • Posts: 527
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2007, 07:38:31 AM »
The legal picture in the UK is changing - at the moment it doesn't seem to require disclosure if you have protected sex. There have been convictions for people who know they have HIV and have unprotected sex. No brainer really.

I think morally I think HIV+ people should always disclose. There is no such thing as safe sex - only safer sex, and both participants need to know this piece of information and be mindful of it in order to minimise the risk of transmission. Nobody is a "nameless piece of meat", and if you can't make the effort to disclose, why make the effort to have sex? I'm not prepared to see myself as just a nameless cock or hole, and disclosure is part of me being a person, making the right choices for myself and for others. If that means I get laid less, or have to think more carefully about who I fuck then so be it - I wish I had before infection.

From a purely selfish PoV I know what it is like to get rejected for being HIV+. I have experienced the rumour mill and I know it isn't nice. I have been tempted not to disclose as a result, but I think that once you give in to that fear then you never, ever go back to the way it was before. I refuse to give in to fear - if other people are scared of my status, then that is their fear, not mine. In fact, thinking about it, I'd rather be rejected for my HIV status than anything else.

Just my 2 pence,

Matt.



Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2007, 07:46:58 AM »
I have a question. Just curious..
If you dont disclose and you are having protected vaginal/anal sex and the condom breaks. What do you say or do?

Teresa

A correctly used condom rarely breaks, and I mean rarely! I've NEVER had one break because I always make sure they're being used properly and within the use-by date.

Check out the three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can avoid breakages too. ;)

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2007, 08:28:13 AM »
Matty the Damned has long felt that we need to do away with the tedious shibboleth that disclosure in some way protects people from contracting HIV. It's a cop out and quite frankly when I hear gay men opine in sanctimonious tones about how they always disclose because that's decent folk do, I roll my bloodshot eyes.

For other groups, I don't presume to speak. I'm not familiar with their sexual moires.

For the record failure to disclose is a criminal offence in New South Wales which carries heavy fines and the potential for gaol time and it's a stupid law drafted by and for stupid people and Matty the Damned sneers at it.

And yes, I do consider the drunken, drugged out affairs I pick up in sleazy bars and darkened sex joints to be nameless pieces of meat, just as they see me in a similar light. I don't frequent these places with a view to finding the love of my life.

A pulse and a hole are really my only requirements.

Rather than waste good fucking time by conducting an impromptu symposium on HIV with these humps, I just tell them whatever they want to hear and if I'm not convinced they're positive I use a condom.

And, despite the earnest claims to moral superiority from some of you I don't believe for a single moment that any of the other gay guys who've commented in this thread are any different.

Because as every faggot worth his jungle juice knows, a standing cock has no conscience.

Like many discerning gay men of a certain age, I maintain a circle of fuck buddies. Positive chaps like myself who are strongly bonded to one another and express that bond through sexual intimacy. In these circumstances it's bareback all the way, because it's about sex with an emotional meaning and value and an absence of barriers; be they latex or socially constructed.

So to buggery with morality and moronic laws. Disclosure be fucked.

MtD

/edited for the smallest of typos/
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 08:48:48 AM by matty.the.damned »

Offline giorgio76

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2007, 08:45:58 AM »
 :o :o :o :o :o :o ;)

Offline milker

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2007, 09:12:26 AM »
It is clear that I do already disclose if the question is asked. If it's just a pick up in a bar or online, and the question is not asked, and it is protected, and i'm the bottom, then the partner has that very rare risk of having the condom break. If that had to happen, I would say i'm HIV+, but that I did everything I could to make the sex safer, and that if there was any concern, he could have asked too. After all, he may be positive and not tell me either. Imagine that. Condom breaks, then both of us say "i'm hiv+"  :o I also ask the person to bring condoms, so it is clear that I am asking for safer sex. I guess it never came to my mind to ask if someone was HIV+ when I had the person ask me to wear a condom... I only asked before unprotected sex (and sometimes I forgot to ask..)

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline woodshere

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,477
  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2007, 09:15:45 AM »
And yes, I do consider the drunken, drugged out affairs I pick up in sleazy bars and darkened sex joints to be nameless pieces of meat, just as they see me in a similar light. I don't frequent these places with a view to finding the love of my life.

A pulse and a hole are really my only requirements.

Rather than waste good fucking time by conducting an impromptu symposium on HIV with these humps, I just tell them whatever they want to hear and if I'm not convinced they're positive I use a condom.

And, despite the earnest claims to moral superiority from some of you I don't believe for a single moment that any of the other gay guys who've commented in this thread are any different.

Because as every faggot worth his jungle juice knows, a standing cock has no conscience.
/

While perhaps more blunt and direct than how I would phrase it, I have to agree with MTD.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline keyite

  • Member
  • Posts: 514
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2007, 10:08:15 AM »
I don't believe in legislating to force disclosure when sex is protected - more than anything, because I think it's counter-productive from a public health perspective. Nonetheless, I personally disclose even if it is protected, with the only possible exception being silent 'sex on the premises' type encounters, e.g. saunas, backrooms, etc.

It is indeed a moral question, but it's also a practical one. Quite frankly, I can do without all the worry about condom breaking, it being 'safe enough', and so on. Sharing that responsibility is just so much easier. More fundamentally it is about being able to look at yourself in the mirror the next day. Denying something as important as your seropositive status isn't just about what you take away from others, i.e. disclosure and their ability to make informed choices, but just as much what it takes away from yourself, i.e. self respect.

So yes, this gay man begs to differ from Matty's sweeping generalisations. Roll your eyes all you like but do us a favour and stick to speaking for yourself.

Offline SASA39

  • Member
  • Posts: 690
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2007, 10:28:26 AM »
And yes, I do consider the drunken, drugged out affairs I pick up in sleazy bars and darkened sex joints to be nameless pieces of meat, just as they see me in a similar light. I don't frequent these places with a view to finding the love of my life.
Rather than waste good fucking time by conducting an impromptu symposium on HIV with these humps, I just tell them whatever they want to hear and if I'm not convinced they're positive I use a condom.
And, despite the earnest claims to moral superiority from some of you I don't believe for a single moment that any of the other gay guys who've commented in this thread are any different.
MtD

Even with a drunken, drugged out affairs that you pick up in sleazy bars and darkened sex joints , it is secure to use a condom..........by that , you are protecting yourselves and your partner too...........and in that case  , a matter of disclosure is really under question..............but you have answered that dilemma afterward.......
I did not claimed ( if that sentence was referring to me ) that I`m morally superior or different from any of us here , what  I mean is , when you tell ( or do not ) your status  to a person that it is worth it  , you have one less monkey on your back, so to speak , ........
Either that , or to use a condom , ......................which always leave you a incident option............
I did not have any sexual relationships  since October , and I`m frankly convicted that I would die that way , because do not won`t more troubles besides these ones....................but that is my matter..............
And I`m OK with a fact that they are diffrences between us.............
edited for typos

                              Al
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 01:24:13 PM by SASA39 »
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline planonstaying

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  • Hiv is the FOX,tcells the rabbit, CALL the HOUNDS!
Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2007, 10:47:15 AM »
I don't have a lot of experience =/ but have always disclosed  and always plan on it.   morally, I would  have a hard time  looking  back at  myself in the miror if i didnt operate that way i think. It isn't worth the orgasm to rob someone of what should be their choice since  i do know my status imo
If someone tells you  potential consequences of a behavior  it  doesn't  mean they jude you or mit    they may just give a shit about you

Offline xyahka

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2007, 10:57:47 AM »
Because as every faggot worth his jungle juice knows, a standing cock has no conscience.

Wow... so true. Mtd well said (that phrase was a turn on!  ;)).

as for me, i had sex yesterday all night long and didn't disclose... felling guilty? no. i played safe and like what Ann said if you learn and become a trained condoms user they will rarely or never break. The problem is not disclosure or not.. the problem is if people play safe or not. Before i didn't that's why i am here, but now i do.

Plus, if i disclose in latin america... i would never had sex again... remember here hiv+ is still a curse... they would go away running...

Juan Carlos (certified advanced condoms user)
13/03/07 1er diagnóstico /Peso: 79kg
19/04/07 CD4: 494 /CViral: ?? /Peso: 80kg
19/07/07 CD4: 659 /CViral: ?? /Peso: 79.5kg
06/03/08 CD4: 573 (después de meses muy deprimido) /CViral: ?? /Peso: 79kg
17/09/08 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 84Kg
06/02/09 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 85Kg /HCV: Neg /HBV: Neg.
07/03/09 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 87Kg / Gym 3días/semana y Natación 2días/semana.
12/05/09 CD4: 470 /Cviral: ?? /Peso: 87Kg.
08/07/09 CD4: ? /CViral: ? /Peso: 77Kg.
09/12/09 CD4: 510 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg. No medicinas aún
10/01/10 CD4: ? /CViral: ? /Peso: 76Kg.
15/05/10 CD4: 320 /CViral: ? /Peso: 76Kg.
01/02/11 CD4: 291 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg.
05/05/11 CD4: 366 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg.
27/07/11 CD4: 255 /CViral: 138000 /Peso: 78kg.

Disfrutando y aceptando una nueva vida...

Offline Jer

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2007, 12:03:28 PM »
Lack of information is one of the reasons that this illness wiped out a generation of the gay community.   It is irresponsible to not disclose.  If the person chooses not to engage in "safer" sex practices then that is their choice....give 'em that.

Offline sdcabincrew74

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2007, 01:01:06 PM »
It is clear that I do already disclose if the question is asked. If it's just a pick up in a bar or online, and the question is not asked, and it is protected, and i'm the bottom, then the partner has that very rare risk of having the condom break. If that had to happen, I would say i'm HIV+, but that I did everything I could to make the sex safer, and that if there was any concern, he could have asked too. After all, he may be positive and not tell me either. Imagine that. Condom breaks, then both of us say "i'm hiv+"  :o I also ask the person to bring condoms, so it is clear that I am asking for safer sex. I guess it never came to my mind to ask if someone was HIV+ when I had the person ask me to wear a condom... I only asked before unprotected sex (and sometimes I forgot to ask..)

Milker.


Sounds like you got it all under control dear.
The difference between an overnight and a layover is luck!

Offline Carolann

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2007, 01:23:22 PM »
Well every newly infected person may likely infect many other people, and those people in turn may in fact infect many other people, and so our actions have exponential consequences.

What we do to one other person we often do to many other people.

HIV is pure hell.  Sorry, even with the best meds and the best doctors it is still extremely horrific.  No way to sugar coat it.  To not care and knowingly feed the proliferation of this pandemic is to be a conduit of suffering and death.  It is also costly to society in both money, time, and energy.

HIV is extremely expensive to treat.  The money may in fact run out.  The insurance companies are in it to make a profit.  More and more HIV patients means higher costs to the insurance companies, and those costs will be passed on to the public.  State and Federal funds may not always be there, and every new patient increases that burden.

To take it lightly is to bury one's head up one's ass so far as to never see the light of day. 

The other day I saw a bumper sticker that read "Condoms are easier to change than diapers."  My immediate thought was not of a parent with a child but rather an adult living with HIV, as the virus and the meds make diapers a necessity for many of us.  I think that condoms are a lot easier to deal with than HIV.  They cost a hell of a lot less. Disclosure is not the issue for me per se, but rather, condoms, used correctly for anal and vaginal sex will cool down the spread of this disease. 

I don't care if you don't ask or don't tell, but please, for any penetrative sex (vaginal and anal) wrap it up. Please. 



« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 01:28:29 PM by Carolann »

Offline SASA39

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2007, 01:32:18 PM »
Well every newly infected person may likely infect many other people, and those people in turn may in fact infect many other people, and so our actions have exponential consequences.

What we do to one other person we often do to many other people.

HIV is pure hell.  Sorry, even with the best meds and the best doctors it is still extremely horrific.  No way to sugar coat it.  To not care and knowingly feed the proliferation of this pandemic is to be a conduit of suffering and death.  It is also costly to society in both money, time, and energy.

HIV is extremely expensive to treat.  The money may in fact run out.  The insurance companies are in it to make a profit.  More and more HIV patients means higher costs to the insurance companies, and those costs will be passed on to the public.  State and Federal funds may not always be there, and every new patient increases that burden.

To take it lightly is to bury one's head up one's ass so far as to never see the light of day. 



In Serbia a goverment is already in fear of a collapsed social system : not to mention who would be first to strike if it come true.They have already printed a donation bills along with comunal ones for all households to donate for a fight against AIDS .Minute later they have ended in garbage can with famous reply :
" Damn ******* , They have got what they have deserved.I got a kids to look after , not to give them........., or I`m going to save that money when I`m ill"
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline Carolann

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2007, 01:43:30 PM »
In Serbia a goverment is already in fear of a collapsed social system : not to mention who would be first to strike if it come true.They have already printed a donation bills along with comunal ones for all households to donate for a fight against AIDS .Minute later they have ended in garbage can with famous reply :
" Damn ******* , They have got what they have deserved.I got a kids to look after , not to give them........., or I`m going to save that money when I`m ill"

Sasa,

I cannot tell you how many times I hear the same things in the U.S. and in a clinical environment.  I know doctors who say similar things.  From a public policy position, it becomes more and more difficult to fund.  There is a perception (wrongly asserted) that people are carelessly and cavalierly spreading this virus, and sympathy seems to be diminishing because of this misconception.  There is also building resentment among people who think that their tax dollars are being spent on people who knowingly spread a deadly disease (their thoughts, not mine).  Being female, people don't immediately think of me as a person with HIV, no matter how much weight I have lost, or how ill I have looked at times, so they make comments in front of me that they probably and hopefully would not make in front of a gay male.

I hear things that make me cry.

I hope that compassion wins out over this cruelty and that these societal misconceptions about people living with HIV do not impact our access to treatment and our ability to live our already difficult lives.

Offline Bucko

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2007, 02:20:07 PM »
As a matter of strict personal policy I disclose because I serosort and would never knowingly have penetrative sex with a neg. But here in Ft Lauderdale it's an easy thing to do. If I were some place where disclosure would lead to being ostracized, I'd probably not and use condoms or (more likely) dispense with penetrative sex altogether.

Brent
(Who answers the same question the same way each time)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline Carolann

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2007, 03:45:51 PM »
As a matter of strict personal policy I disclose because I serosort and would never knowingly have penetrative sex with a neg. But here in Ft Lauderdale it's an easy thing to do. If I were some place where disclosure would lead to being ostracized, I'd probably not and use condoms or (more likely) dispense with penetrative sex altogether.

Brent
(Who answers the same question the same way each time)

Brent,

If more people acted and thought like you, think of how many of us wouldn't be here on these forums.  Thankfully there are people like you and hopefully they outnumber those who don't care or don't think deeply enough when it comes to this virus.

Offline jimw

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2007, 04:05:34 PM »
Lack of information is one of the reasons that this illness wiped out a generation of the gay community. 

Although I completely agree with disclosing ones status, I disagree with your statement that lack of information is what wiped out an entire generation of the gay community.  AIDS was already prevalent throughout the gay community before it was ever discovered almost 26 years ago - then WHAM - it hit before anyone knew what was happening.  It wasn't a lack of information, and in fact once the gay community realized that it was sexually transmittable it was the gay community, and not the government, that picked up the sword and took steps to educate and inform its members on how to prevent transmission. 

Offline SASA39

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2007, 04:35:26 PM »
I did it again ...........
I should wear glasses .......
Question was  : "Do you disclose if you know you are going to have protected sex?"
But anyway I would disclose  it to a reliable person .........

« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 04:38:11 PM by SASA39 »
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline Iggy

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2007, 08:43:57 PM »
I currently  make it a priority to to inform every potential sex partner that I am poz.  Yeah...and priority is the right word....because it has more importance to me than just getting off.  Sure some may see that as a holier than thou statement though I find that funny and a pretty simple minded as my reasons are not based on morality - I actually prefer not to have sex with neg people so the disclosure issue is one of aiding me selecting my partners....in sex and beyond.

I do want to touch on some of the discussion re: laws on the books about HIV disclosure and state that I feel they are discriminatory against HIV people and not in the best interests of public health. I would go so far as they were proposed, enacted and are enforced with the goal in mind to punish poz people without a care of doing anything about the spread of HIV.

If lawmakers really wanted to combat the spread of HIV that happens when people don't discuss HIV status - they would be arresting the neg people who don't bring up disclosure before sex as well as they are equally responsible for the spread of HIV and the "crime" of nondisclosure. 

I would also love to see a correlation study done (at least in the U.S.) of localities that have the disclosure law (or at least are active in their pursuit of it) and the amount of funding they provide for HIV prevention messages ranging from sex education in schools to free condoms at bars.  Maybe it's a false hunch but I got a feeling that we would see that the localities with cases being tried in regards to this might also have the worst records on prevention education. I would also like a comparison of how much they spent on putting the disclousre law on the books and any enactment costs ranging from police time to judicial costs ...again - just an assumption but my feeling is that the latter would have cost more tax dollars than the former (education)


Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2007, 08:51:23 PM »
My severe lipodystrophy does a FAB.U.LOUS job of sero-sorting me naturally.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline SouthSam7

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2007, 09:09:09 PM »
I always disclose, regardless of planned safe sex or not.  My problem is when to tell someone.  The few times I've met someone since being diagnosed and would have normally "tricked up", I disclosed. 

I don't seem to get the timing right, however, because the subsequent tension after disclosing neutralizes any heat or excitement and the sex fizzles out.

I think now I subconsciously prevent myself from getting laid because of the above experience.

Love,
Sam

Offline Tempeboy

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2007, 12:04:29 AM »
For me it comes with the territory, your place or mine, top - bottom, dick size, pos - neg.  Mostly you can tell if someone is open minded enough to deal with it, if not then the whole thing is gonna be tricky anyway. 

If I want to arrange to see someone again it's better for me if they already know, and I usually give people a bail option.  I'd rather discuss it than be lied to.  It's about trust and communication.

I always use condom's, whether giving or taking.  I don't want any extra STI's or HepC, but that's me.  The different states here have different laws about disclosing and infecting, with 3 big law-trials going on at the moment.  The legal experts suggest that laws around safety are more useful than laws around disclosure, ie no legal obligation to disclose as long as it's nice and safe.  The UK has no laws in either regard and their rates are through the roof - their principle is "Never rejected, but often infected!"  Hep C is huge in the UK - especially in their tourist centre's.

I've heard some great pick-up lines, and poz.com has a free internet hook up service.

Happy hunting!
Roughly roundabout somewhere in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, Sodomite begat Homosexual out of moral, medical and legal models, bequeathing him Identity, who inbred with Nuclear Family and Industrialism to spawn Homophobia.

Dean Kiley

Offline keyite

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2007, 04:26:02 AM »
The legal experts suggest that laws around safety are more useful than laws around disclosure, ie no legal obligation to disclose as long as it's nice and safe. The UK has no laws in either regard and their rates are through the roof - their principle is "Never rejected, but often infected!"

Completely untrue. Rates in the UK might be rising (just like they are in the US and elsewhere in the world) but it is not due to a lack of legislation or prosecutions: http://www.tht.org.uk/informationresources/prosecutions/recentcourtcases/
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 03:22:42 PM by keyite »

Offline Hard Times

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2007, 11:19:36 AM »
to get control of the hiv/aids ,  EVERYONE MUST DISCLOSE ,  i know there are worse things than aids!
& i dont want tofind out what they feel like !!! ONE DESEASE IS ENOUGH FOR ME !!!
PROTECTION IS NOT A CHOICE :  IT'S A MUST !!!
my partner is hiv- , how could i live with myself if i infected him ???  (i couldn't).
Your Body Is What You Are.
Your Soul Is Who You Are.

Offline SouthSam7

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2007, 02:00:31 PM »
I don't believe I have ever passed it on to anyone.  But I wonder about that sometimes.  sorry didn't mean to hijack this thread.
Sam

Offline Bucko

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2007, 02:33:47 PM »
to get control of the hiv/aids ,  EVERYONE MUST DISCLOSE ,  i know there are worse things than aids!
& i dont want tofind out what they feel like !!! ONE DESEASE IS ENOUGH FOR ME !!!
PROTECTION IS NOT A CHOICE :  IT'S A MUST !!!
my partner is hiv- , how could i live with myself if i infected him ???  (i couldn't).

Tommy-

Correct forum decorum insists that you frame your opinions as opinions and not as a screaming rant. You are new here and you'll learn that.

While disclosure might be the law for most of the people reading this, it is also a matter of individual discretion when put into practice, hence Milkie's initiation of this thread. Rational and intelligent minds can disagree as regards disclosure for reasons you can't imagine from your perspective, but are no less valid than your experiences. We respect allowing each member here to discuss their opinions in a safe and bias-neutral arena.

My virus infected my ex (perhaps several of them) before I was aware of my status. It was one of the defining moments of my life, which has since moved on for over twelve years. In the immediate aftermath of a positive diagnosis I harbored many horrible thoughts, most of which were discussed  here when I first joined in June 2005. It took many years to come to terms with the consequences of my fear of testing, and sharing this journey has been an important contribution to the dialog here.

But I most definitely continued living with myself (and my ex, BTW, for almost ten years). The longer you are diagnosed and the more peace you find as someone living with HIV/AIDS the healthier and more productive your life will be.

Brent
(Who needed to say this)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline BT65

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2007, 03:58:39 PM »
I think it's a personal choice as long as safe sex is used.  But that's just me.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline SouthSam7

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2007, 01:07:20 AM »
I don't understand why it's the law to disclose in some places because 1. Some people won't be honest, and 2. People who keep their viral load low aren't likely to infect anyone. 

Offline Bucko

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2007, 01:17:51 AM »
The only way our system knows how to deal with a threat is by criminalizing it. It's not meant to protect anybody, just keep us pozzies on our toes.

Brent
(Who has yet another reason to look over his shoulder)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline Hard Times

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2007, 11:58:41 AM »
yes bucko i'm new to this !  it took me a year just to get this far ! no one has explained how to use these sites ! sorry if i did it wrong !  thanks for pointing that out .
Your Body Is What You Are.
Your Soul Is Who You Are.

Offline Tempeboy

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2007, 06:35:41 AM »
Hey Keyite,

Thanks for the link mate. 

The difference is that Australia imposes extra legislation that applies to anyone who is HIV+ and has sex.  So if you knowingly infect someone in the UK, you could be prosecuted under Criminal law (eg reckless endangerment).  But in Oz, I can be charged, prosecuted, fined and imprisoned for not disclosing my HIV status to a sexual partner - even if I use a condom and there is no transmission.  And, if I pass on HIV - then I could be prosecuted under Criminal law.  And, if I "deliberately" pass on HIV - there are more laws, and it goes on.

These laws have been around since the early 80's.  When you are diagnosed these laws are explained to you by your Dr, as a requirement by the department of health. 

Probably the only good thing about this is that the issues are discussed openly and widely, and have been now for 20+ years.  So the law forms part of the local culture.  So if I disclose for a fuck, guys are usually understanding and appreciate the honesty.

As a matter of fact, I am going to log off and head to the local sauna to test the theory.
Roughly roundabout somewhere in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, Sodomite begat Homosexual out of moral, medical and legal models, bequeathing him Identity, who inbred with Nuclear Family and Industrialism to spawn Homophobia.

Dean Kiley

Offline milker

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2007, 07:10:06 AM »
As a matter of fact, I am going to log off and head to the local sauna to test the theory.

Don't forget the camera  8)
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline keyite

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2007, 07:31:06 AM »
The difference is that Australia imposes extra legislation that applies to anyone who is HIV+ and has sex.  So if you knowingly infect someone in the UK, you could be prosecuted under Criminal law (eg reckless endangerment).  But in Oz, I can be charged, prosecuted, fined and imprisoned for not disclosing my HIV status to a sexual partner - even if I use a condom and there is no transmission.  And, if I pass on HIV - then I could be prosecuted under Criminal law.  And, if I "deliberately" pass on HIV - there are more laws, and it goes on.

I'm not entirely clear - are you arguing these extra laws are a good thing? If so, you have to wonder why they don't seem to bring about reduced transmission rates, because surely that's their objective? After all, they've been around since the 80s. You mentioned Hep C in your previous post - does Australian legislation cover that, or other potentially incurable infections such as herpes, too? If not, you have to wonder why not?

I don't personally believe legislating about disclosure works as a prevention strategy. The statistics really speak for themselves. If anything, this type of measure works against people testing and finding out their status. Given the majority of new infections come via people who have no idea they're infected themselves then the better strategy would be to encourage more widespread testing.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2007, 07:35:20 AM »
No Keyite,

Tempeboy refers to the disclosure provisions of the Public Health Act 1991 (NSW) which are additional to provisions under other NSW laws.

;)

MtD

Offline keyite

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Re: Disclosure questions.. again...
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2007, 07:45:39 AM »
Thanks Matty, but I wasn't asking for the precise name of the act, helpful though that is...  :-*

I was actually asking Tempeboy if he was arguing in favour of these extra laws.

 


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