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Author Topic: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?  (Read 6862 times)

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Offline SASA39

  • Member
  • Posts: 690
How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« on: May 21, 2007, 06:55:22 AM »
First : scroll down to an end and if you find that the lenght of this post is abnormal , freely skip it all !

Regarding some earlier posts :

" Curiosity: Hetero men " by MoltenStorm
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12127.0
" How is it being heterosexual  and havin HIV" by StacheBC
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12133.0
"The HIV mindset " by Zeb
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12487.0
"virtual skip" by penguin
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12306.0
"Children" by tigger2376
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12300.0
"The cure" by Moffie65
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12106.0

First of all this person want you all to know that he is seeing all members of this site as his fellow brothers and sisters , a camarads in arms , and that he is not  or would not be angry with any reaction from them . He was trying to help others as much as he could and he is hoping that his help was observed by those who needed it.(but he is also sorry because he did started some posts which at last has emerged themselves as a not so good themes afterall).........

 So here are his opservations due to this Q:

Aswer is :
Tough................very.................

1.Children : my 2 angels does not presume anything , but they can see that something is going on...........the older one has start to ask Q like : " How come that daddy does not go to work anymore so often ? " or " Why daddy is not laughing so much anymore ? "............and "Why he suddenly has to drink all these pills ? Is he allright ? "
And their daddy is merely a shadow of a proud , joyfull man that he used to be.He is terrified by the fact that a possible disclosure could and would ruin their fragile little perspective about happy family and world.
They have not deserved it........................
As he is writing this post his older daughter has come from school with 4 A grades , and his younger ( still in a kindergarten) has 3 boyfriends  :D
And because of that their father is feeling that he has killed them in a way , that he had betrayes them , and he is feeling  dirty for that.He also feel that he has killed himself in a way (not to mention that he has los all his interests for books , movies , .............).
In just 10` his and their future has changed from a very perspective one  to a living hell .....................and he desperately want to save them because he love them , and now he just can see how much...........also he failed to show them some things that he wanted to :  hiking , diving , riding bike , ........dur to his present state.................and he is sorry because he would probably not be by their side when most needed...........

2.Wife : she is crucified too.
On one hand she want to divorce very strongly, on the other she want to be near me because we become closer in a way than ever.But she has a private job which has enabled her to know many people in a town where we live.
She has due to her husband state lost a confidence in all male adults.She said that she do not believe anyone ..........and furthermore in a case of disclosure she would be first to blame , or more she could be attacked due to a nature of her private job ( health issues) .
She needs help , but she as her husband does not want to be seeing somewhere talking to some schrink because stigma due to that is big issue here too.
She did not tell anyone because that kind of secret would be hard to keep.
She is crying almost  everyday and her( our ) friends has noticed her swinging mood attitude..............wondering..............
And her husband is speechless , seeing a mess that he has created.............
Not to mention that they do not have a sex life anymore ( and it is a essential part of life for any living person ).
Due to a stated above wife could not find another person anymore.
One opportunity that she has , has run away , scared and terrified by a possible outcome.( He said that he does not want his name to be dragged in the gossip swamp for the rest of his life )

3.Relatives : husband does not have any and his wife have parents.
But they are old , sick ( heart ) and asking Q because they can feel too ( instinctively) that something is wrong............wife has said to husband that their support would be a great to her , but that she is afraid to tell them anything because they would seek divorce immediately ade she could not stand it .......
also she is afraid of bigger consequences ( health)..........she also have a brother , but he is married with a kids , so his wife would be implicated in a whole thing , which wife don`t want to happen.
And her parents ( and brother )are well respected in a town where they live, so any kind of embarrassment would do a lot of harm.
Futhermore her father has founded a medical treatman that help many people , and regarding to my status in case of diclosure my wife could be even prosecuted.

4.Friends : only a few , but with little children , and both of us are pretty sure that they would reject us with disgust due to their children health, stigma  and ignorance.......................

Because 3&4 disclosure is out of question..............and Al is afraid/petrified of accidental disclosure.......his wife is working just a  1000 ft. from hospital where he is going to controls , they were been seeing multiple times by a friend when testing in other department ( but in a other part of building ).............he saw his collegue in waiting room once................his wife know one female researcher in a hospital............
Al knows that he cannot predict future , and is trying so hard not to think about possible outcomes , but occasionally fears are strofer than he is , and he was a man that could not be frightened so easily before.And thinking "one day in a time " sometimes is not enough , especially when someone has a little children to care for.
 Some Q are constantly in my head : " Who will look after them some day ?Would my wife be strong enough? How to evade missing of pater familias in the house ?"

5.Social support : there is none of it.
I have asked about other case similar to mine but the answer was the same : "We have knowledge that similar cases are existing , but we cannot address you to any of them".
Furthermore , only person who is in charge to work with HIV + people and their families is very strange by attitude ( conclusion by me , wife , and some people that has some contact with her)

6.Medical support : lack of HIV drugs , VL & CD4 device are not working , missing of any HIV patient doctors network ( proctologyst , internist , cardiologist , ...........).And only 3 doctors  for us  are connected because they work together , so that a change of one would not do any good .And furthermore they did not bother to add any comments to his strange results.
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12229.0


7.Work : I have tried hard to get back to, but I have a problems with concentration , due to a depression , and Sustiva .And it is eessential to a work that I `ve been doing: related AUTOCAD & EXCEL sheets where one false data could implicate a multi mistake........and boss could close his one eye once , twice, but third time........you could find an envelope saying ........thanks , we do not need your service any more.And due to a his age 43 and hard transition time , it would be most difficult to find another job.Furthermore , f&m in low know my boss , and I`m petrified by the fact that they could call him one day...........Also , my best man , a goodfather of my kids , knows my company so he could pop in some day just to see me....

So when you put all this together , it is no wonder why is one considering final solution almost every day.
In that way he would save his family of the further life shame , and he is still looking healthy ( in case someone could ask a some "hard illness " Q ).His mind is not so clear anymore , regardless of the fact that he is writing this letter.........light brainfog , depression and some healthy issues  ( HPV , low platelets, tiredness)have become a part of his life.
Instead of working and contributing to his family he has become a depressed shadow.
He tried with AD , but due to nausea he had to stop that ( because he was afraid that he could puke his primary treatman ) .Also he is aware of some medical conditions that are almost certain ( due to a meds ) in future : lypo , PN , and he has a strong onco ( cancer ) gene in his family..........and that those medical condition would reveal his status .
His is terryfied by that fact.
He was a low starter and a cure for this vicious disease is not on a horizon yet.And any possible vaccine could be a double edged sword due to his low immune system.............he has finished all his research abuot this ilness and he would be very pleased if he is wring about his presumptions.
But he is a Orthodox ( and he respect all other religions) , and know that an ultimate sin is to take his life........also a stigma due to that is a very great one ( one way is that he find a way to look it as accident).
He is very thankfull to this site members ( they know who they are ), and especially to a moderators.......
Because he do hot have a professional help ( meaning that one must know HIV good and also be a good schrink ) , he was seeing this site as a great help  to his mental health............

And he is sorry because he has started this issue ( a grown up man should not be mincing and lamenting , crying over his life ) but for the first time in his life he does not see a solution ( he has seen a life meaning even he had lost his parents and relatives due to a cancer , or being 5 months in plaster ), or he is seeing possible scenarios but they are petrifying him and he does not have a weapon or instruments to fight back.( because if he would fight back in "FU" style he is afraid that it could do more damage , and he was never a good liar afterall.)
                                        Al
Any PM , comment or advice will do..........
Thanks for letting me vent................. ,because this is the only place where I could tell everything about myself and get along with it............and it is a heavy budren , you know that as I do ,




« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 11:22:04 AM by SASA39 »
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline sweetasmeli

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  • Posts: 1,052
  • Love what you are...
Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2007, 11:27:23 AM »
Al, I'm going to respond to your questions from your other post from the 'work' thread (inserted below) here too:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12154.msg155967#msg155967

Firstly, I want to say how much I respect your honesty. It takes much courage to lay your heart and soul out bare the way you have.

Secondly, I have been deliberating all afternoon whether or not to say what I'm going to say here, as I don't wish to distress you any more than you already are. But in light of the fact that you stated here you will not be angry with any responses I thought, what the hell, I'd go for it. Also, I apologise for not addressing absolutely everything here, but in all honesty, there is too much to digest and respond to as a whole. So I have tried to focus on the main issues and start from there.

My heart goes out to you and your family for the difficult situation you are now faced with.

I can’t even begin to imagine what it must be like being diagnosed with HIV in a country lacking so much in education and resources to deal with your health care and well being.

I am quite sure I could not continue to live in such a place, but this isn’t about me.

To be honest, I’m not sure anything I have to say will be of much use to you as nowadays, I fully advocate disclosure. I believe as long as HIV+ people continue to live like we have a ‘dirty little secret’ to hide, then we will continue to be treated as such. It’s a vicious cycle that will only start to be broken when people start to actually break it. I firmly believe that the only way future generations will not be faced with the same stigma that we are currently faced with is through honesty, openness and education that must start now.

Your post resonates with stress and fear: stress and fear that you will not being able to find more work, of people finding out, of your children being bullied and ridiculed, that you may infect your wife, of being ostracised by family and friends; and on top of that you feel dirty and guilty and not worthy of being.

I don’t mean to sound harsh or frighten you but you need to take a reality check on what that amount of worry and stress is doing to tax your immune system. If you continue with the mindset you currently have, your immune system will only be able to cope with so much stress for so long before it starts to fail you and the virus will overcome.

Do you understand what I am saying?
Stress is just as much as a killer as AIDS, if not more so. But it doesn't come with the same stigma.

Ideally, your wife needs educating about the risk factors, your “friends and neighbours” need educating, your community, and maybe even your country needs educating. Your children will not be children forever; at some point, they will need educating too, if not about their own father’s condition, then about how to not be ignorant about STDs, what risks are actually out there and the safer choices they can make when the time comes.

And if one day you do decide to disclose to your children, they need to know from you that you are NOT a disgrace to society. But Al, you have to believe that too first before you can convince them.

You have not killed your children in any way. You have not betrayed them. And you are not dirty. But as long as you continue to believe such things, you will remain trapped in this nightmare that life has dealt you. As long as you are trapped, you are a victim. As long as you remain a victim, you are beyond help from anyone. The first step forward out of 'victim mentality' has to start with you.

You do have options to choose from; they’re just not easy ones. The way I see it you have:

Option 1: Keep your status between you and your wife. And work on your relationship with your wife.

Options 2: Be the change you wish to see: over time, disclose and face the fallout that will ensue.

Options 3: Relocate to another country with better healthcare and education.

Whatever you decide, you must try to educate your wife as much as possible, to alleviate her fears about the risks involved. Spend as much time with the ones you love as you can, having as much fun as you can. And, most important, do everything you can to reduce your stress.

But to be honest, if you are resolved to living in absolute secrecy about your HIV status, I personally can’t see how feasible it will be to reduce your stress sufficiently, which will always impact the degree to which you can feel comfortable with your life and enjoy honest quality time with your family and friends.

You are afraid of the stigma of your status being disclosed and the impact that may have on your family. You need help but you are afraid of the stigma that surrounds seeing a therapist. Fear is your master. As long as that continues, you will never feel empowered over anything.

Al, the bottom line is: You need help. And your wife needs help. Something is going to have to give here.

Incidentally, the people you refer to as “friends and neighbours” who would be happy to see you and your wife miserable are NOT your friends, not in any sense of the word.

As long as you stay where you are, you have the choice between accepting the ignorance and inadequate services that your country and community supports OR not accepting it and fighting it.

Either way, Al, you have to find a way of being more comfortable with who you are, HIV status and all. It’s the only way you will come even close to achieving the long life, peace and happiness you long for.

You need to stop yourself in your tracks and breathe; I really mean that.
Stop right now and slow down your thoughts.

At the moment, you are spinning; you are running circles around yourself and, whatever you may think to the contrary, as long as they are aware that something is very wrong but they don't know what, your family will be spinning with you. One thing is for sure: How you are decribing it, your situation is so fragile and volatile now, if you don't do something to change it in some way, something is going to break.

Al, I don't have the answers for you, only my thoughts and advice. I really don't know what else to say at this point.

Can anyone else please chime in here?

Melia


« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 11:41:02 AM by sweetasmeli »
/\___/\       /\__/\
(=' . '=)    (=' . '=)
(,,,_ ,,,)/   (,,,_ ,,,)/ Cats rule!

The difference between cats and dogs is that dogs come when called, whereas cats take a message and get back to you.

Yeia kai hara (health and happiness) to everyone!

Offline cjc

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,011
  • Sweet Girl
Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2007, 12:40:00 PM »
Hello, I wish I knew how to help you. I have children and use my youngest as a source of love and purpose to continue to live well. I am not saying you don't do this as well but he really makes me feel good. So much stress and worry and guilt can't be good for you. I read melia's response to you and can't articulate as well but I know that worry,stress and guilt are bad for us all. Yet, how to keep from doing these things. You are in a hard spot but hopefully it will get better for you. Concentrate on keeping yourself healthy for your family. Hope this helps in any way at all but if it doesn't, know I am thinking about you and your family and hope things get better for you.  Cristy

Offline SASA39

  • Member
  • Posts: 690
Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2007, 12:55:51 PM »
I have learned that for every problem there is a solution :
* Do not have enough money : do not spent so much on unimportant things
*Loose a job : find another one
*Have been dumped in a relationship : start another one
*Cannot pass the exam : learn more
*Lose an family member : give yourself a time for greaving and that sholud pass too
*Have a car crash and went uninjured : take a bus
etc , etc . ..........
Those situations were familiar to me ..................but now I just do not know how to resolve present situation.........for me it has no solution and I`m trying with all my sanity to find one..........or to prevent the existing state........
Disclosure is here not an option..................and it woud take it  bad tribute at any time................because anyone could say something to my dearest from now untill .............and we do not have changing country ( even a town ) option,............................
One should see an expression of a young  female volunteering doc in GP office some few monts ago when she realized that I`m HIV........she was so petirfied that I was in temtation to offer her a help............she was in a state of shock , like I was having a third eye , horns , or a little screaming alien creature inside of me................I had very tough time finding a good GP after been diagnosed, a good dentist and so on ..............They wont tell your name but most of them would describe you to the details , and it does not fall under a revealing of  proffesional secrets..............so I have to go to a GP in the other part of a city.................and a dentist in another city who was willing to see me regardless my of status.......................And if that is a situation with doctors one could imagine what is with ordinary people...........I`m sure that in that private lab where I have been tested for the first time , my name is writen with screaming red , so A) I have to lie about my self next time or B) to find another lab of such quality which is a little complicated.......
                             Al




Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline sweetasmeli

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,052
  • Love what you are...
Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2007, 12:56:20 PM »
Another thing Al, is to you need to try to break down the things that are concerning and affecting you into smaller pieces. Prioritize which issues need addressing first and foremost.

At the moment you are all-consumed with every single huge, medium and tiny worry and fear. You need to prioritize the issues needing urgent attention and then break those down into manageable bitesize pieces.

For example, you may want to start with trying to find suitable therapy for you and your wife. This will mean having to overcome your fear of 'being seen' and the stigma that you believe is attached to this. But you seriously do need some professional help in navigating this situation. So, like I said before, something is going to have to give somewhere. This could be a starting point.

If the woman you have already been appointed isn't suiting your needs, maybe you need to look elsewhere for someone else, if possible.

Melia
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 12:59:47 PM by sweetasmeli »
/\___/\       /\__/\
(=' . '=)    (=' . '=)
(,,,_ ,,,)/   (,,,_ ,,,)/ Cats rule!

The difference between cats and dogs is that dogs come when called, whereas cats take a message and get back to you.

Yeia kai hara (health and happiness) to everyone!

Offline englishgirl

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  • Posts: 387
  • ACT NOW TO CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE TRAVEL BAN
Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2007, 12:57:43 PM »
Al, im not sure exactly what to say to help you but please, please believe that your world is NOT over and you have NOT ruined anyone's life.

i know that my situation is quite different from yours and i do not face many of the challenges that you face, but i am going to give you some positive positive thinking here - i hope it does not seem patronising or harsh. i have huge respect for what you have told us here on the forums about you and your situation and what i am about to say is with understanding of how big and many your problems appear to be at the moment...

stop, breathe, take one day at a time and don't let this situation overwhelm you. situations similar to your situation have been experienced by many people over the last 25 years and they have got through it and SO WILL YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.

please read Melia's post slowly a couple of times. what she says is all very good sense.

you CAN conquer this (at the moment for you unmanageable) situation and make it manageable. seek out and take all the help you can, take one day and one issue at a time. you need to stop thinking of this as a huge unmanageable problem and break it down into small steps.

i think at the moment your depression and stress is as damaging to you as the HIV and you need to start by tackling these areas in order to be able to cope and view your situation with perspective. i recommend that you investigate antidepressants as a short-term help. personally i dont know what i would do without my 40mg of citalopram a day. i know you have previously said that you do not want to use antidepressants but i feel the time has come to admit that you need their help.

you can do it. think how many people in the last 25 years have been through this and have managed to get through. think how many of these people have felt how you are feeling - alone and overwhelmed. you can take control of this situation and stop this situation being in control of you.

there is hope for you, your future and your family. you just have to take one day at a time, one issue at a time.

i hope you can find some answers, help and support.
ACT NOW TO CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE TRAVEL BAN:
http://campaigning.tht.org.uk/cms/cmsloader?WfJVLp&view=11,301,1385,0,-html

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=17352.0


"I'm not keen on the idea of the afterlife - not without knowing who else will be there and what the entertainment will be. Personally I'd rather just take a rest." Oscar Berger, PWA: Looking AIDS in the Face, 1996. RIP.

Offline Dragonette

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2007, 02:30:31 PM »
AI, you don't need to solve everything at once now. As Melia said you are spinning out of control and letting your fears get the better of you. I acknowledge that your situation is very difficult, but many of the things that torment you HAVE NOT HAPPENED YET. At this stage, they are still in your head, we don't know if they will happen.

1) You have standard treatment which is what a lot of people on this planet don't have. I know I am not in a position to say anything since I have it too, but this is not a given! I have met Africans and people who are really desperate for meds (even in the States you can hear of it). luckily this is not your situation. It's very shitty that there are no decent machines to measure VL & CD4. Can you try to join other patients to advocate for them? have you spoken to your doctors? I recall you once said that the HIV medical workers are compassionate. Surely they will be at least trying to obtain one of these devices in the forseeable future? Or how about posting the blood samples to another country to be processed, at least every 6 months?

2) Your wife, you once wrote, wants a divorce. Now it seems she is still very much in love with you, but feels helpless and torn apart. You need to work on that. regarding your sex life, without going into detial, not every "satisfying activity" involves even minimal risk, as I am sure you know. You don't just jump into full intercourse without knowing your vial load and with no PEP available, but then again, neither did I have sex with my BF upon disclosure, it literally took a couple of months to have full sex. of course, sex is just one part of the package. I recall the other day you mentioned that you enjoyed a day outdoors with your wife and kids, good! That's the spirit

3) Your kids are very small, and regardless of the stigma of HIV, can you honestly say that if you had cancer or tuberculosis or any other chronic disease you would tell them? I doubt it. I am not saying that you should keep quiet forever, but there is no need to decide right here and now if you will keep this a secret forever. Do you think I know everything that goes on with my parents? You will have to find the balance between revealing teh truth and not freaking them out too much, but before you do that, you must freak out somewhat less youtself, because HIV is not as bad as half of the chronic diseases out there when it is treated...

4) Work - I believe you should continue to work and not be such a perfectionist. Again, you could have come down with anything, it is no one's business, and we are not machines. By all means get on that spreadsheet and if you make a mistake, well, the boss will be pissed, AS IF he never made a mistake!

5) Sustiva - don't take it with fatty food, that will lower the levels. If you really think it is messing with you that badly, consider changing, if there are other options.

I kind of forgot what else was there but I hope you get my drift. If you can, try to talk to some other HIV patients, even annonymously (make up a bogus name and create a new email and ask your doc/nurse to pass it on). They will be able to offer you more concrete advice related to your place and situation.

That's it from my end...... try to have a restful evening. As many people said here, one day at a time, one step at a time... (or as they say: "slowly slowly, inch by inch, the elephant f***ed the ant" - I hope you are smiling naughtily at this proverb at least...  ;))

"If you keep one foot in yesterday, and one in tomorrow, you piss all over today". Betty Tacy

Offline David_CA

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2007, 03:25:36 PM »
I wish there was something I could do to improve your situation.  I'm sure most of us wish the same.  I know when I first got my diagnosis, it was ok.  As reality started to sink in, things got bad (in my head).  The stress level was unbelievable.  I learned first hand what a panic attack is for the first time in my life.  In fact, I had several daily for a couple of months.  One thing that helped me, and I don't know if it's an option for you, was Prozac.  Shortly after I started taking it, life seemed a bit better, but most importantly, I felt like I would be happy again.  In addition to the Prozac, I had a few sessions with a counselor. 

Most of my stress wasn't from being upset about having the virus, but from the secrecy and 'how I could face my family'.  I finally disclosed to my immediate family when I was hospitalized for PCP (pneumonia).  I was very sick, it was obvious that there was something else going on, and my family members aren't stupid.  I couldn't keep hiding it without being deceitful.  My family has turned out to be one of my biggest sources of support.  The few good friends I've talked to about it have supported me as well.  I'm certainly not one to go around blabbing "I have AIDS", but it's no secret to those that  I'm close to.

I think Melia summed it up well: "Something is going to have to give here."  Good luck with it and take care.

David



Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Dachshund

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2007, 03:51:30 PM »
Al,

You can do what I did when first diagnosed and let your fears and worries become your self-fullfilling prophecy. That's what I did. I convinced myself that my life no longer had meaning or value and then set out to prove it. Boy did I try and prove it. As my health improved, and yours will improve, my outlook improved. As my outlook improved, my life improved. Is everything perfect? Not by a longshot, and I would be liar if I told you I don't worry about HIV and my future. My one and only bit of advice to you is try to find some laughter in your life. As trite as it might sound, laughter is the best medicine.

Offline SASA39

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2007, 04:48:13 PM »
I am the wife.

I love him very much. Kids too. We do need him. Want to be together as long as I've always wanted. Long long time. But I am scared to death. Not because of the illness. From the first moment we've got an information, I've realised that we do live with it for years, just without knowing it. Sexual life? I do not need you to understand. I am just not able to do it any more. What I am scared from? Reaction of the people. Not for myself. Kids. I don't need education. I know everything about HIV. The only thing I can do is to love him, to rise the kids and to prey.

 
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline sweetasmeli

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2007, 05:12:09 PM »
I'm exhausted and have to sleep but before I do I just wanted to say welcome to you, Al's wife. I'm sorry things are so difficult for you both where you are and I wish there was more I could offer in the way of help and support than just words on a computer screen. Hope to hear more from you. But for now, I must sleep...
Kalinikta to you both
Melia
/\___/\       /\__/\
(=' . '=)    (=' . '=)
(,,,_ ,,,)/   (,,,_ ,,,)/ Cats rule!

The difference between cats and dogs is that dogs come when called, whereas cats take a message and get back to you.

Yeia kai hara (health and happiness) to everyone!

Offline bahati

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2007, 07:26:24 PM »
Al and wife,
When there are so many things bothering me and I can see no light ahead I know that I need to rest, literally need to sleep. My best sleeping pill is reading the Bible. Dosage? it normally does not take me more than 2 pages . I will have dozed off. After waking up, i will not have solved the problem, but the fear goes. This is exactly what you need, to remove the fear, to face the reality without the fear bothering you. GOD BLESS YOU.

Offline Dragonette

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2007, 03:15:29 AM »
Dear Sasa & Wife

Nice to finally meet you wife!

I don't pretend to know what you are going through. I am not married, have no kids, live in a liberal country (got away from own country because of the stigma; well, got away before I was diagnosed, but now it seems I will stay away). I addressed sex because AI addressed it. Sex is not the solution, it is a symptom.

I have a question: here in the Netherlands, I belong to an Infectious Diseases department at the hospital, that means everyone else who goes there with me is HIV positive. At home, the field is not that advanced and there are fewer poz people, I belong to the Clinical Immunology Unit, that means that most patients there are HIV+, but not all, all kinds of immune problems are there. What would be your case? Are poz people "outed" and pointed at? Does everyone know who is poz? or is there a chance of maintaining privacy?

I know what helps me to deal with fear is write (or talk) the worst scenario, creating the worst scenario helps me to see where I am at and where this scenario is at.

Take good care...
"If you keep one foot in yesterday, and one in tomorrow, you piss all over today". Betty Tacy

Offline zeb

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2007, 09:36:07 AM »
Well Sasa,

I'm not married but I do have kids. My biggest worry is taking care of my kids. As you know I'm aware of my status since dec. My first thought were: Will I see my kids grow up. What I have noticed is that facing mortality brings me closer to my loved ones. And It's really good to see how your wife responds to you. She loves you so much! And that is so heartwarming to notice! (1,000,000 times respect for your wife!)

As a dad I don't buy stuff like: life day by day. I have kids and I want to see them grow up and I want to take care of them! I sense that single and young gay men are in this way different; they only need to take care of themselves. (this is my assumption). In these forums it sometimes seems like you don't even may ask how long we can live with hiv. That's really absurd if ask me. I mean: it's not my ambition to become 100, but I want to raise my two toddlers.

Well that's it for now.

Zeb

Offline Dachshund

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2007, 10:04:56 AM »
"they only need to take care of themselves. (this is my assumption)."


Zeb, do you know any gay people at all? It is beginning to be a bit much for me, the continuing assumptions you make concerning gays. We are as different and as varied as you are...we have families, and friends and lovers and spouses that we are as every bit concerned about and worry about their future as well as our own. We are no more self centered or self absorbed than our heterosexual brothers and sisters. Heck, we even want to adopt your unwanted children but most of straight society won't let us.

You post like we are some strange, exotic creatures that you would view at a zoo. If you want to know ask, but please quit making assumptions. >:(

Hal
(who takes care of his elderly parents and his dog and is too busy to take care of himself)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 10:16:35 AM by Dachshund »

Offline zeb

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2007, 10:11:06 AM »
dachshund, not all...
 but i think it's a trully difference when you have kids

Offline Dachshund

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2007, 10:17:58 AM »
dachshund, not all...
 but i think it's a trully difference when you have kids


We HAVE kids Zeb.

Offline frenchpat

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2007, 11:23:28 AM »
Well Sasa,

I'm not married but I do have kids. My biggest worry is taking care of my kids. As you know I'm aware of my status since dec. My first thought were: Will I see my kids grow up. What I have noticed is that facing mortality brings me closer to my loved ones.

One of my best male friends, the one who's been in a same-sex relationship for 13 years, has two great kids from his marriage, a 19 year old and a 16 year old. He could say the EXACT same thing. So does my lesbian friend whose daughter just turned 9...


Quote
As a dad I don't buy stuff like: life day by day. I have kids and I want to see them grow up and I want to take care of them! I sense that single and young gay men are in this way different; they only need to take care of themselves. (this is my assumption).

As someone recently said to me: the three first letters of ASSumption... ;D

Quote
In these forums it sometimes seems like you don't even may ask how long we can live with hiv.

You can ask, but the answer you are looking for is an impossible one. No more can anyone predict how long you can live with this bug than you could have without it. What would your mother have been able to answer had you asked on your first day "how long can I live?".

This is not (entirely ;)) a hijack of AI's thread: when we ask to know how long we have, we want to be reassured. Fear makes us do that. Fear of hiv, fear of pain, fear of dying... fear of living, because there is such a thing too.

AI I find it very brave of you to be so open. I won't repeat what I PM'd you a while ago, it is more or less what others have said here. Fear is what prevents you from moving forward. Before you disclose, move or do anything regarding your hiv status, I believe you have to deal with fear. As finding a therapist seems to be difficult, I suggest that you attempt something different from intellectual /analytical approaches.
Your brain and its present overdrive mode can affect and hurt your body. If you find some sort of peace, same brain can help with healing. Since switching off is difficult for you, try reverse logic: make your body do something that your brain will have to follow.

More specifically, I would suggest Yoga.  Not because it is the latest craze in the US, not because it is 5000 years old, but because:

1) you don't need to be an athlete to do it - you do it at your own level

2) there are poses that will demand total concentration from you (including your brain), regardless of their ease or difficulty

3) You will have to concentrate on your breathing for minutes on end (sometimes seem very long...) and you will eventually learn to breathe better.

4) this will result in quieting your mind

It may not help you be without fear for a whole day at first, but it will help you relax a bit and you will get the benefit of exercising too. Learning something new will keep your mind busy and you will be free from fear as you concentrate on other things. You will also get to laugh when you realize how stiff you can be or when you topple out of control. Laughing is good too.

All this will counter the effects of the fear that you experience on a near constant basis. Fear and panic lead to something called "tunnel vision" which impedes clear thinking.

In addition to Yoga, another suggestion I have is to get massages. If these are too expensive maybe you and your wife can enroll in a massage class. It will get you reacquainted with your body. Being massaged has soothing effects and is an excellent de-stressing activity. I would submit that learning to touch and accepting to be touched, can help you in dealing with the negative image you have of yourself nowadays (dirty...etc.). Also, I think that to give each other a massage can help you and your wife get comfortable with each other again and rediscover an intimacy to share.

At no time will you need, for any of these activities, to disclose your positive status. You do not risk transmitting your hiv virus by doing yoga or by massaging someone. You will also meet new people who might end up being friends one day.

keep updating us because we care.

hoping this helps,

Pat (whose battle with fear(s) is an ongoing one)
People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline zeb

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2007, 01:33:50 PM »
Zeb, do you know any gay people at all? It is beginning to be a bit much for me, the continuing assumptions you make concerning gays. We are as different and as varied as you are...we have families, and friends and lovers and spouses that we are as every bit concerned about and worry about their future as well as our own. We are no more self centered or self absorbed than our heterosexual brothers and sisters. Heck, we even want to adopt your unwanted children but most of straight society won't let us.

You post like we are some strange, exotic creatures that you would view at a zoo. If you want to know ask, but please quit making assumptions. >:(

Hal,

No, I don't know gay people. My ASSumptions are based on earlier responses I got on my threads. Adoption of unwanted kids is not an issue here if you ask me. But if you want to know: I don't mind that homosexuals adopt kids.
I don't like it that you suggest that I look at gay people as if they are some kind of attraction in a ZOO. I just don't know any.

I'm just scared as shit for HIV! I don't want to offend anyone!

grtz
Zeb
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 01:38:27 PM by zeb »

Offline SASA39

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2007, 02:03:59 PM »
OK,
this is going to be a tough battle…….
Between you, me and fear,
So let’s start,
Watching my example, I think that a benefit from this thread would be to know amount of stress that goes almost for any of US
Today I was really down, I took escitalopram and then have read in some article that it should not be taken by a person who has suicide thoughts.
What an AD…………..and it was prescribed by my doc………
Yes you were right , fear has become my master , for the first time in my life , …………it was not my master when I was competiting in a karate fight to strengthen my spirit and body , or when I was hanging 100 feet above the ground on the alpine rope during a membership in a Mountain Rescue Squad.
But now fear of invisible is here,
Fear that I would got a cancer because everyone has got it in my family: I was aware of that before so I did `not smoke or been a heavy drinker.
And I have managed to catch a disease which is ultimate connected to a various cancer forms especially when one knows that my CD was 58 which is excellent ground for cancer, and a new CD4 cells are just a shadow of the old ones. And I have a HPV on top of it ( lucky in frontal region  ::) )
Yes I have a feeling that I have betrayed my children………How is that?
Because I was reckless, doing things that should not be done without proper protection ….and if you are reckless like that and a consequence is that you are not going to be able to see your children grown up, one might said that he had betrayed his children.
 If you ask them you will probably hear something like that from innocent children’s mouth. They will be feeling betrayed. And they cannot find a real excuse.
One could imagine a picture of three unprotected female souls in the house .That picture rip my heart off......because a family need a both parents , nevertheless who they are
Yes I do have a  HAART therapy ( which is lacking from time to time but not my type) and that’s OK , I’m very thankful to the doc`s .They had save my life in Oct.
But I’m furious, mad and bitter toward myself, because of the mistake that I’ve made…….And just why …………….
I do not know ……….I had one very bad homosexual encounter as a very young  ( 13 , 14 )  with an much older guy ( ~40) , and as I can recall now it has left a very bad emotional scar on my soul. I did not tell that to anyone because I was ashamed. Then I was trying to fight my own demons by questioning if it was good or bad for me…for a very short period…… but a price for that was too high …..and in that way I have become what I am now………… ………….
 :o could not believe that actually I’m doing a confession for the first time in my life……… :o
Again I have no family to turn on………
Here in Serbia we have one department for all infectious diseases but divided into six classes > Class VI are HIV+ and we have especially waiting room only for us…………It is good because we do not mix with others , but bad because once seen there by non HIV a disclosure is a matter of time.
Let me say this: I really feel bad for myself seeing people are fighting about something that I have said: it has happened before in a thread: “ Boo ? “
I was just asking about that man because one could see that he was battling his own demons too.
I do not intend to be anyone advocates but to US with kids a day for a day option is no good in every moment. I mean who is going to pay their scholarship , to  be there for my little girls when they someday came back with a broken heart , to teach them about life , friendship , trust , ……to wait for them in a kitchen after some party in a 3 AM…….and to look after their children when they are somewhere else……….
( and I`m truly crazy about my daughters : one who has saved her pocket money to buy us a presents , and thet other who is a spiting image of that  Tom& Jerry yellow quacky-ducky )
Just think of it ( if you do not have a child ) that you have a little sister , and no mom & dad , or that they are far away………….
Some of US do have children , but in most cases they are much older and a possible disclosure would not hurt their young souls as they are young ( and female ) as mine are…………….it would be a life scare by someone that they were trusted the most…their dad…………how are they going to believe any other male soul for the entire of their life ?
Yes , my brain is in the overdrive mode……….I can practice Yoga but there is one question : I practice Yoga for an 20` and then what ………anyway I have to return my self into a  hard reality…I know what you are saying  FP , but one must achieve a constant Yoga in his mind  constantly and those things are happening only when a man is untainted by his own actions and when he is in position to forgive himself.I`m not and I do not know if I will ever be,
……this is a crazy situation : when you dream , you wake up and instead of saying : “ Oh , TG it was a nightmare “ , you are in one daily…………….
Listening to a  romantic music and  want to hug my wife , but thinking that I  had betrayed her too………next Monday is her birthday and I’m ashamed by a "birthday present" that I have give to her……….and she is a brave , and truly devoted woman , one could see that now
( My Dear I LOVE YOU DEEPLY  :-*  :-*  :-*)
But she is full of fear too…………….and if I could take that fear of her and disappear it would be the best, for all………because one of us should stay alive to put our kids into grown personas……………..
At first my thought wre to insult her so much and to piss her , in a way to leave me ( because when two become close a  premature departure  is a more tougher ), and forget me but I love her now more .
         Al (not AI) from Alexander
Now I would let a mic to my wife..............if Goderators let her speak...........



« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 03:38:01 PM by SASA39 »
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline sweetasmeli

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2007, 03:31:25 PM »
Al
It goes without saying that your wife is free to speak here. This forum is for people living with and affected by HIV, so that means you and your loved ones. We would (and I already have) welcomed her.

I read what you have written. I hear what you are saying. I feel your pain.

But I still stand by what I said before.

You are spinning out of control. You are imagining every frightening and negative scenario imaginable. And you are all consumed with fear, anxiety and worry. And continuing like that is NOT going to get you any place good. Ever.

The ONLY WAY you are going to come close to stopping spinning and getting a handle on your fears is by GETTING SOME HELP. And I don't mean here. We are a start, a place to share and vent. But we are not professional counsellors or psychiatrists and, even if any of us were, online counselling is not the way to go. You need professional help to navigate you through your depression, anxiety and fears.

I told you before and I will tell you again: Something is going to have to give.
Do you understand what I mean by this? I mean, something MUST change.

You say you betrayed your children by not being there for them when they are older. Tell me, how do you KNOW that you wont be there for them when they are older? Is that a fear or a fact? There are countless members here who have been living with HIV for 10, 20, 25 years, and they are STILL living with it. Some of them have children. Some of them have grandchildren. One member has just watched one of his children graduate and he has been HIV+ since the 80s. So please tell me WHY you think it will be so different for you?

You say your CD4 count is an excellent ground for cancer. You seem convinced you will too get cancer. But again, is that a fear or is it a fact?

WHY is it so likely that things are going to be all doom and gloom for you? I agree its not necessarily going to be easy. It isn't for any of us. But please, tell me, how do you KNOW that it is it definitely going to be harder for you?

You admit that fear is your master now. You also admit it wasn't always this way. So tell me now, what are you willing to do to stop being a slave to your master? Because I'm telling you, with fear, it does NOT have to be the way it is with you at the moment. And that, my friend, is a FACT.

We can only do so much to help/guide you Al. But the first step towards change has to come from you.

Melia

/\___/\       /\__/\
(=' . '=)    (=' . '=)
(,,,_ ,,,)/   (,,,_ ,,,)/ Cats rule!

The difference between cats and dogs is that dogs come when called, whereas cats take a message and get back to you.

Yeia kai hara (health and happiness) to everyone!

Offline frenchpat

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2007, 03:50:37 PM »
Al,

all I am trying is to give you tips that may work for you because they seem to work for me and others. The battle against fear is one that you have to wage because you are the one who knows your fear(s) and can ultimately deal with them, one by one. I really wish that with time you manage to do that and live a fulfilling life, one where not only fear but happiness and love have a space to thrive, for however long it may be.


Fear that I would got a cancer because everyone has got it in my family: I was aware of that before so I did `not smoke or been a heavy drinker.

So in this instance you dealt with that fear by being proactive... despite the fact that there was no guarantee that it would work, right? I imagine you made these choices because you hoped you would avoid cancer.

And so far you have.

Yes, you did not plan to become hiv+, nor did any of us here. But you are still living and you can apply the same approach to this new life, this life with hiv. You can make choices of lifestyle now that will have an influence over how you cope with this virus. And as with life itself, there will be things that you have absolutely no control over, whatever you do... and this was already happening before you became positive. What I am trying to say is that you are not totally powerless and that it is up to you to wrestle this power back from fear's claws and use it.


Quote
Yes I have a feeling that I have betrayed my children………How is that?
Because I was reckless, doing things that should not be done without proper protection ….and if you are reckless like that and a consequence is that you are not going to be able to see your children grown up, one might said that he had betrayed his children.

Every thing we do has consequences yes, but you are not being punished for what you did.
Fact: many people, heteros, homos, bi, zoophiles, whatever, have been reckless in their lives, not once, not twice, but many times, and they did not become positive. Many people who only tried once something they had not dared try before became infected.

What I am saying is that what we all had here was an accident.

Save for those who got this bug through blood transfusions, their mother or other means they had no control over, we all acted in a way that made the accident possible, most of the time by having unprotected sex with someone of unknown status.

Quote
If you ask them you will probably hear something like that from innocent children’s mouth. They will be feeling betrayed. And they cannot find a real excuse.

Keyword here is: probably

You don't know. You're afraid it may happen this way, that they might say that.  Probability is a weapon in fear's arsenal. How many LTS here have been told 15, 20 years ago, that they only had 6 months or a year to live, that they should prepare to die? Probability.
If I was to believe statistics and general wisdom I should have had a sweet 10 years before having to get on HAART and then a few years before side effects kicked in. I was infected less than 5 years ago, been on meds for 3, have lipo, a nascent buffalo hump and am on my third session of Sculptra/New Fill injections... Probability.


Quote
But I’m furious, mad and bitter toward myself, because of the mistake that I’ve made

That is key. Maybe this will sound silly to you but the answer to this is love. As Melia's picture says "aime ce que tu es", love who you are. Your wife loves you, your children love you. You've made mistakes? You're not perfect, dont demand this from yourself. You are asking for the impossible. Making mistakes, however harsh their consequences, doesn't make you a monster. You are only human, like all of us. Try to forgive yourself and give yourself the love you deserve for all you are. Hiv is part of you but it does not define you. You are not hiv.


Quote
I mean who is going to pay their scholarship , to  be there for my little girls when they someday came back with a broken heart , to teach them about life , friendship , trust , ……to wait for them in a kitchen after some party in a 3 AM…….and to look after their children when they are somewhere else……….

Who? most likely you!
At this moment you are using tons of energy being angry, bitter and frightened. When you manage to change that, and you will, you'll be able to use this energy not only to fight the disease but also to keep building your family life and your daughter's future.


Quote
Yes , my brain is in the overdrive mode……….I can practice Yoga but there is one question : I practice Yoga for an 20` and then what ………anyway I have to return my self into a  hard reality…I know what you are saying  FP , but one must achieve a constant Yoga in his mind  constantly and those things are happening only when a man is untainted by his own actions and when he is in position to regret himself.I`m not and I do not know if I will ever be


What? to start with you are buying yourself 20 minutes of peace (and usual Yoga practices last 60 to 90 minutes). And believe me, when you practice Yoga you are not escaping reality one bit. Oh no. You are very much dealing with the unescapable limits of time, gravity and the body you've been given... and even how badly you treated it all these years ;D .
What you are doing is basically giving yourself a break by concentrating on other aspects of... the same reality.

I am not, by any means, suggesting that doing Yoga or massages will solve all your problems. I am merely saying that you could try that as a mean to break from the vicious circle of fear-anger-guilt that you experience right now. It could be a start. And I disagree with that last sentence I quote. No one is "untainted" by one's actions. Maybe saints... but not us. Which doesn't mean that one has to live in perpetual self-imposed guilt and fear. You can change the way you're dealing with this, you have that power, and sorry, it will be a day-by-day, step-by-step effort. A bit like climbing a mountain, and you know about that...

I don't mean to be harsh when I write that nor do I claim to have the perfect recipe; you welcomed every answer in your opening post, and this is mine. I hope it helps you.

Pat

edited to add... my name ::)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 03:56:17 PM by frenchpat »
People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline SASA39

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2007, 04:06:07 PM »
OK , let me answer.......
1. 10 ,15 years .......maybe I will maybe I do not , but I`m afraid of the visible side effects of the drugs which could point  that one is seriously ill : PN , and LD ......and here Sculptra and other filling methods are pure SF......my wife has in best intentions made a mistake by giving my blood ( not HIV ) results  to our neighbour( wife and husband) doctors.They have concluded that I have a serious viremya and has to be treated ( Oct `06).After the hospital I have met husband an lied that it was something unknown.  Did he buy that ? I do not know.
2.If someone has lost almost of  his family members due to cancer , it is a normal that he must be scared of one. It could be a Post Traumatic Stress too , but seeing what  quiet that disease could be he is scared .
3. I was nursing my dad and mom for the short time of their illness , I know that they were feeling helpless , and ashamed because I had to nurse them although I was their son.I do no want to be on my wife`s back , because she has already a big package there..........
Furthermore , I believe that one`s purpose is to be of help to someone or to find a purpose in what he is doing...especially if he has a family.........I have lost my job , a little bit old to find another, everybody said : you must do something .......but what ......(hm , next thread).....
But you are right about one thing , I do need help.
And this is not just a venting forum.
It is a much more than that...............
It is a helping hand , a truly and unselfish place where one could get a valuable advice.......from his new family..............
Thank you Melia ( is it your real name ?  a really exotic one .....what does it mean ?)) ,FP , Zeb , Dragonette , Dutch , and David and others for anything you have said.............
                Al
And  yes part of that fear is coming from the fact that I`m a "black sheep" in my "family".Wife is PhD , father in low also , brother in low has a big firm in another city (but did not offered ever to give me a job ) , I`ve been stydied for so long because of my mom , dad ..........and once I`ve got a decent job I have lost it .I do not want to be a " black sheep "  and  be finger pointed again.Especially  not for my daughters.But as aone of the patients  in my hospital has said before : " You should be thinking about that before ................" or to quote a famous  sentence that I should known before :To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 04:41:10 PM by SASA39 »
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline sweetasmeli

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2007, 04:44:34 PM »
You're welcome Al, but I'm not looking for your thanks.
I'm looking to see you take that first step towards trying to change the situation you are in.

You said it yourself, these forums are a place for you to seek valuable advice. Well, much advice has been given.
My next question is this: Are you going to take at least some of that advice and act on it?

Melia

PS: In answer to your question about my name, I'm sending you a pm.
/\___/\       /\__/\
(=' . '=)    (=' . '=)
(,,,_ ,,,)/   (,,,_ ,,,)/ Cats rule!

The difference between cats and dogs is that dogs come when called, whereas cats take a message and get back to you.

Yeia kai hara (health and happiness) to everyone!

Offline SASA39

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2007, 04:50:08 PM »
And a catch with work is : I do love my work , but I`ve got into a hospital  because of HIV and 60 hours working week .And it was only job in my class that I have found.And I`m really scared that if I procced in that tempo it will push me to a hospital again.No imagined fear........
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2007, 04:53:43 PM »
Al,

Like Miss Melia says, of course your wife is able to participate in these forums. A number of members are the wives/husbands/lovers of poz people. She should probably create her own account though. ;)

Zeb,

I don't mind that homosexuals adopt kids. I don't like it that you suggest that I look at gay people as if they are some kind of attraction in a ZOO. I just don't know any.

I agree with Aunty Doxie (Hal). I don't know what your problem with us gays is, but it's starting to grate on my nerves. Many gay men and lesbians have children of their own. Ones they didn't adopt but produced in the time honoured way.

Sheeeeeesh.

MtD

Offline jack

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2007, 05:03:11 PM »
Its probably easier having HIV and having a family. My kids and my nazi wife keep me very busy and it keeps my mind off of hiv for a few hours every day and they are a built in support group,although a very expensive one. I didnt realize most gay people had children. I can tell you that it is very difficult deciding whether to tell them or not. We chose not too. Kids have enough problems in school without dealing with my mistakes. I can also tell you,after spending the weekend with two couples who have no children,that people without children have no idea,not a fucking clue what its like or how difficult it is. They just dont get it. It doesnt end when they finish high school or college. It never ever ends. You never stop worrying about them or trying to help them. One couple asked us since our daughter just graduated from college if we were going to get involved in volunteer work. WTF?
I didnt want kids at first, I was to selfish and self absorbed. I just wanted to drink,have sex,play golf,and make money of course. If I had stayed in that life, I would have been dead long ago.
I aint gonna die from HIV and you probably wont either but we both might go broke paying for the drugs.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2007, 05:21:41 PM »
Yes, gays have children.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 05:30:21 PM by Dachshund »

Offline zeb

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2007, 07:03:02 PM »
Jeez folks,

I feel like walking on eggs. I don't have any problems with gays!!!!!!!!!!

So I don't mind if they want to adopt kids, have a beer, buy a car, have a family, etc

Same as I don't mid when straight folks want to adopt kids, have a beer, buy a car, have a family, etc

I just was not that sharp to be aware that some or many of them have kids.

Why wasn't I that sharp? As i said: I don't have any gay friends.

Why don't I have any gay friends? Well i just don't have 'em (or I have 'em and they're still in the closet).

Do I mind not having gay friends? No! But If I had gay friends I wouldn't mind either (I don't choose my friends on sexuality)

Zeb

Offline jack

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2007, 08:43:14 PM »
you have entered the no tolerance zone and the parallel universe of Dachsund. It is a place where everyone hates anyone who isnt the same as them or who thinks differently than they do.

Offline anniebc

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2007, 09:26:54 PM »
JACK...that last post was uncalled for..it is considered flamebait, this is the second post of yours I have felt the need to come into today and say something, I don't want to have to do this again so please stop trying to cause problems.

Jan
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Offline frenchpat

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2007, 02:48:29 AM »
It would be nice if everybody here made an effort to steer this back to Al's problem and the solutions we can offer.

Zeb, maybe you can start a genuine thread about gays. You have no gay friends as of yet but you can learn more from those here if you ask. I am totally serious.

Jack, Dash, please don't derail this thread. Several people have but a lot of effort to try and help Al, it is simply not fair to destroy it with flak that has nothing to do with the topic. If you can't stand each other to the point of taking your battles anywhere, everywhere, I suggest you put each other on ignore for a while. Or start a topic about gays with children.

Sorry if I sound righteous but I just woke up and this pissed me off.

Pat
People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline Ann

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2007, 04:44:28 AM »
you have entered the no tolerance zone and the parallel universe of Dachsund. It is a place where everyone hates anyone who isnt the same as them or who thinks differently than they do.



Jack,

You were warned last week about the flamebait.

I'm giving you that overdue Time Out Andy mentioned. As it's your first, it will last seven days.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline SASA39

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2007, 06:44:08 AM »
I have tried hard to find a professional help but:

1. That female psychologist gave me same nonsense questions and proposals that are quite unaplliable here ( in Serbia ):
a) Why don't you tell your friends and children and see a reaction?
b) If you are working  hard and get ill, so what   ???   :o , you will get into a hospital and be taken care of …
c) I have heard also that her proposition to one patient is that he should be almost PROUD of his disease as a disease of a new era? :o

2. I have asked my doc a head of the stuff to get another therapist . He has said to me :” We do not have such a request from our patients ………”  ???
He is a very good doc , but he is playing a role for 3or 4 of them : Chief of the stuff , Proffesor , doc for Internal deseases , very often a sentry
doc.for a whole Clinic...Chairman in the conferences..........so he is in a lack of time.......and due to that he has suffered a miner stroke some few yeaes ago....

3.I have asked too an ophthalmologist ( HIV related ) to find me one but he said to me that a first line of them is no longer in Serbia , and that he does not know anyone from a second line…………

4.From the experiences from a domestic site www.depresija.org  ( depression ) , I have stated that a public version is not suitable for me. It is same as I would get in my own department. Not good. Why ? Because public doctors have about 30` for a patient monthly and they give them a drug always , not waiting for a result from any talking session.

So I am looking for a therapist who is capable to take care of my HIV related depression , and probably of my wife swinging moods too.
Last night she came close to me whispering about she needs me , and about half hour later , her eyes were full of tears .It has happened this morning in the bed , and she was thinking that I'm asleep. I could hardly sleep these months. 6 , 7 hours at most in a dozing mode.
And it is a very hard task , because he/she is got to be expirienced with a depression provoked by a ilness ,  post traumatic stress symptoms , and family matters..................and jumping from one to another is no solution , due to a loosing time and sanity...............

Next : it has been my karma here to start a  thread which could provoke flame baiting ( “ Hamartia “ by Val
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=9923.0 ,
 or Boo ?
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12237.0
, or to be a part of some threads which has caused a really big need for discussion : “ Q : Should`t there be a Positive Non –Gay man thread too “
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10959.0
I have found there answers whom I did not like at all : by anniebc and skeebo1969 .I did not react because I do not want to spill a gasoline on a fire.
But I think that it is a question of politeness for someone ( even for a moderator ) when he/ she is jumping into thread to warn about thread policy , to say at least a word or two to a thread founder.

For the past two months I have learned one or two  things :
How it is to be classified into a “ special” group which has been minimized  and outcasted  in the eyes of others , ( having HIV )  and that I really see all people as a humans first………….
So it really hurt me when I see a flame baiting between AM members , because of the words that have been said premature or without asking a question about their real meaning. I do not intend to be anyone advocate , and I could say that I see some members in this site as  my truly friends ……..( milker , Philly , pozniceguy , Dachshund , Christine , Andy , Matty , Zeb , Ann , sweetasmeli , Moffie , Val , Aztecan , Matt , HIVworker , aplleboy , Dragonette , Fosbery , Frenchpat , Rick , Lisa , sierrarancher , xtremepms , bryonut , JRE , Rod , Elisabeth , Teresa sorry if I have missed someone)
But I can see a same touchy  scenario but vice-versa , that I can see in a real world too………sometimes everything that`s been said about homosexuals is being treated as a  attack , without clearing a theme first……….
CANNOT WE BE ALL HUMANS FOR A START  AND SOMETIME FORGIVE MAYBE WRONGLY SAID WORDS………..?
If we can do that , in that case THIS FORUM WOULD GET IT`S TRUE MEANING AS A TURNING POINT TOWARD REKONCILIATION BETWEEN ALL MEMBERS REGARDLESS THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION , FAMILY STATUS AND AGE.


If it is  going to be one good point of this thread , it is going to be this: if anyone else hetero / homo , married , man with kids , jump here on AM , frightened and scared about his life and family , you can freely point his attentions and fears towards my posts , because he could learn a lot how to deal with them from a first hand…………….

In respect  and peace to all ( really meaning it )
Thankfully
                                              Al
P.S.: Yes I need help still , and my wife is , and I`m just fighting a way to find it.
But I still do need your  mesages , PM`s , support , friendship and , company............

« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 07:12:46 AM by SASA39 »
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline bahati

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2007, 05:32:31 PM »
I have tried hard to find a professional help but:

1. That female psychologist gave me same nonsense questions and proposals that are quite unaplliable here ( in Serbia ):
a) Why don't you tell your friends and children and see a reaction?
b) If you are working  hard and get ill, so what   ???   :o , you will get into a hospital and be taken care of …
c) I have heard also that her proposition to one patient is that he should be almost PROUD of his disease as a disease of a new era? :o

2. I have asked my doc a head of the stuff to get another therapist . He has said to me :” We do not have such a request from our patients ………”  ???
He is a very good doc , but he is playing a role for 3or 4 of them : Chief of the stuff , Proffesor , doc for Internal deseases , very often a sentry
doc.for a whole Clinic...Chairman in the conferences..........so he is in a lack of time.......and due to that he has suffered a miner stroke some few yeaes ago....

3.I have asked too an ophthalmologist ( HIV related ) to find me one but he said to me that a first line of them is no longer in Serbia , and that he does not know anyone from a second line…………

4.From the experiences from a domestic site www.depresija.org  ( depression ) , I have stated that a public version is not suitable for me. It is same as I would get in my own department. Not good. Why ? Because public doctors have about 30` for a patient monthly and they give them a drug always , not waiting for a result from any talking session.

So I am looking for a therapist who is capable to take care of my HIV related depression , and probably of my wife swinging moods too.
Last night she came close to me whispering about she needs me , and about half hour later , her eyes were full of tears .It has happened this morning in the bed , and she was thinking that I'm asleep. I could hardly sleep these months. 6 , 7 hours at most in a dozing mode.
And it is a very hard task , because he/she is got to be expirienced with a depression provoked by a ilness ,  post traumatic stress symptoms , and family matters..................and jumping from one to another is no solution , due to a loosing time and sanity...............

Next : it has been my karma here to start a  thread which could provoke flame baiting ( “ Hamartia “ by Val
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=9923.0 ,
 or Boo ?
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12237.0
, or to be a part of some threads which has caused a really big need for discussion : “ Q : Should`t there be a Positive Non –Gay man thread too “
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10959.0
I have found there answers whom I did not like at all : by anniebc and skeebo1969 .I did not react because I do not want to spill a gasoline on a fire.
But I think that it is a question of politeness for someone ( even for a moderator ) when he/ she is jumping into thread to warn about thread policy , to say at least a word or two to a thread founder.

For the past two months I have learned one or two  things :
How it is to be classified into a “ special” group which has been minimized  and outcasted  in the eyes of others , ( having HIV )  and that I really see all people as a humans first………….
So it really hurt me when I see a flame baiting between AM members , because of the words that have been said premature or without asking a question about their real meaning. I do not intend to be anyone advocate , and I could say that I see some members in this site as  my truly friends ……..( milker , Philly , pozniceguy , Dachshund , Christine , Andy , Matty , Zeb , Ann , sweetasmeli , Moffie , Val , Aztecan , Matt , HIVworker , aplleboy , Dragonette , Fosbery , Frenchpat , Rick , Lisa , sierrarancher , xtremepms , bryonut , JRE , Rod , Elisabeth , Teresa sorry if I have missed someone)
But I can see a same touchy  scenario but vice-versa , that I can see in a real world too………sometimes everything that`s been said about homosexuals is being treated as a  attack , without clearing a theme first……….
CANNOT WE BE ALL HUMANS FOR A START  AND SOMETIME FORGIVE MAYBE WRONGLY SAID WORDS………..?
If we can do that , in that case THIS FORUM WOULD GET IT`S TRUE MEANING AS A TURNING POINT TOWARD REKONCILIATION BETWEEN ALL MEMBERS REGARDLESS THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION , FAMILY STATUS AND AGE.


If it is  going to be one good point of this thread , it is going to be this: if anyone else hetero / homo , married , man with kids , jump here on AM , frightened and scared about his life and family , you can freely point his attentions and fears towards my posts , because he could learn a lot how to deal with them from a first hand…………….

In respect  and peace to all ( really meaning it )
Thankfully
                                              Al
P.S.: Yes I need help still , and my wife is , and I`m just fighting a way to find it.
But I still do need your  mesages , PM`s , support , friendship and , company............



Offline BT65

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2007, 12:34:10 AM »
One thing I have learned, SASA, is NOT to project.  I know that sounds like a bunch of b.s. when trying to think of your future, but just make your future the day you're living in now.  I believe things can get better for you and your family.  You just need to start doing some positive things.  Maybe you could get a babysitter one night and have a romantic night with your wife.  You two really seem to have a lot of healing to do.  About your kids... my daughter is 22 and lives in Washington.  I do, however, have a six year old granddaughter and a three year old grandson who live close by who have been adopted by a family friend.  So I do feel the need to contribute to their future.  But I can do that one day at a time with whatever resources I have available to me at that moment, even if it is only myself cuddling with them.  You said you don't buy the one day at a time line, but it really is the only way for me to live today.  To think about "what's going to happen next year?" when I DO NOT know is just too much.  I hope you find someone you can talk to that can guide you, and your wife also.  Peace & happiness to you and your family. :-*
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Carolann

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Re: How is being hetero , married , having kids , and HIV ?
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2007, 06:35:21 PM »
I have found a general lack of awareness among most heterosexual HIV neg men regarding HIV.

 I haven't dated since I lost my husband, much in part due to HIV.  Most of the people I know with HIV are gay men and women of color.  The heterosexual men I have encountered professionally living with HIV also find it difficult to find others in their situation with whom they can find friendship.  It is hard for everyone with this disease. 

 


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