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Author Topic: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?  (Read 11960 times)

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Offline Matty the Damned

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Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« on: April 25, 2007, 05:52:39 PM »
The death penalty. An issue that places the USA in the same august company as Iran, China, Libya and Russia has always interested Matty the Damned. Which is why this article caught his malign attention this morning as he sorted through his daily email digest.

This is considered by many to be a "controversial topic" so Milker and the more delicate types will probably want to sit this one out.

The article (from MSNBC) deals with whether or not the current practice of lethal injection constitutes "cruel and unusual punishment" under the American legal framework and ponders the question of banning this method of dispatching those deemed to horrid to remain in society.

Now Matty the Damned is not really concerned with whether or not forums members are pro or anti death penalty. By all means post your views, but that subject seems pretty well decided in the US.

Rather I wonder if people concerned with ensuring that executions in the States are painless and suffering free (as far as is possible) for the condemned or should excruciating agony be part of the deal? If so, what methods do people favour? Should capital punishment be conducted in private or out in public for all to see?

For the record Matty the Damned is opposed to the use of capital punishment which has not been used in his country since 1967.

MtD

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2007, 06:17:45 PM »
If I have anything to say about cruelty and the death sentence, I would say that it's not painful enough, and the need to execute the prisoner in a more expeditious manner.

I hear on the news all the time about someone that (example) broke into a house in 1982, raped and murdered a 14 year old girl, then killed the rest of the family, and they'll just be getting executed more than 2 decades after the fact, some even die in prison of old age.

Anyway, I think that in these cases, they need to be fully conscious and tortured in a manner as painful as they inflicted on their victim, until they are dead.

And I think that the appeals process should allow for no more than 2 years in prison.

I also think the executions should be made into a public event.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 06:19:33 PM by izprince1984 »
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Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2007, 06:20:53 PM »
Milker the delicate one is very interested with this topic. I will clearly say that I am totally against the death penalty to start with, whatever the crime is, but this is not the subject, however it must affect my reply so I have to state it.

I never thought about whether the execution should be "accessible to the public" or not, but my initial reaction would be "I don't care", as long as I am not forced to watch it. If people want to watch someone die, whether they are related to the crime or not, i don't care, not my problem.

As for suffering, I doubt that any family that has had to be part of a crime will ever say that the punishment has been enough. They will always have the dreaded detail of how their family member or friend died, and the sentence will never look as "just". So many times I hear "YOU WILL NEVER SUFFER AS MUCH AS SHE DID". No he will never, people think, and the family will never get over it.

But may he did, maybe this lethal injection was excruciating, 100 times worse than what he did, we don't know. My view is that the death penalty is two folds, 1) provide means for families and friends to get over the crime, 2) scare the shit of potential murderers. It doesn't seem to work, and could result in "cruel and unusual punishment", so my method is "pain free" if death has to occur.

Milker.
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Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2007, 06:23:26 PM »
Milker the delicate one is very interested with this topic. I will clearly say that I am totally against the death penalty to start with, whatever the crime is, but this is not the subject, however it must affect my reply so I have to state it.

I never thought about whether the execution should be "accessible to the public" or not, but my initial reaction would be "I don't care", as long as I am not forced to watch it. If people want to watch someone die, whether they are related to the crime or not, i don't care, not my problem.

As for suffering, I doubt that any family that has had to be part of a crime will ever say that the punishment has been enough. They will always have the dreaded detail of how their family member or friend died, and the sentence will never look as "just". So many times I hear "YOU WILL NEVER SUFFER AS MUCH AS SHE DID". No he will never, people think, and the family will never get over it.

But may he did, maybe this lethal injection was excruciating, 100 times worse than what he did, we don't know. My view is that the death penalty is two folds, 1) provide means for families and friends to get over the crime, 2) scare the shit of potential murderers. It doesn't seem to work, and could result in "cruel and unusual punishment", so my method is "pain free" if death has to occur.

Milker.

I doubt that Charles Manson killed all of his victims with a quick shot that put them to sleep and then stopped their heart.
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Offline xtremepms

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 06:34:05 PM »
I doubt that Charles Manson killed all of his victims with a quick shot that put them to sleep and then stopped their heart.
Actually not to derail the topic, but Charles Manson never actually killed anyone of his victims.  He was just the supervisor.

Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 06:36:55 PM »
And before you ask, iz, i would say the same for Hitler or Bin Laden.

Milker.
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jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Offline Joe K

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2007, 06:56:38 PM »
I will never agree with a death penalty, until you can guarantee that you will NEVER execute an innocent person.  As to how to legally kill someone I will always believe that humane is the way to go, otherwise we are no different from Charles Manson, because we would be deriving pleasure from the intentional and painful death of another human being.

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2007, 07:27:40 PM »
You want to see an unfair legal system, go to China, if anything ours is too lax.

In China you're GUILTY and you have to PROVE that you are innocent, if you fail to make your case, then you're sentenced, and a lot of the "crimes against the state" stuff is just show trials.

I think that if they're "reasonably" certain you did it, like 99% sure, then the death sentence should be allowed, but I don't think they should be shown any more mercy than they gave their victims.
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Offline Just John

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2007, 07:47:39 PM »
The British Government, for several years prior to abolishing the death penalty re-defined 'murder' (in 1959 I think) which gave the effect of instantly lowering the murder rate thus manipulating the figures which showed the inevitable post abolition effect, which was, surprise! an increase in the murder rate. The Politicians at the time were thus able to claim that there was no increase and the temporary abolition should stay.

The murder rate in Britain today is now approximately 100 times greater per head of population than it was in 1969.

The average murderer in Britain today serves around 6 years in prison, in a cell with all modern facilities and comforts. He is allowed access to counselling, education, leisure activities and recreation; oh! and drugs, tobacco and alcohol are all freely available if you know the right people. After half the sentence he'll be moved to an open prison from where the ones who don't simply walk free will be able to go shopping, to the pub or other places of interest.

I believe that all murderers should forfeit their own life.

I believe that, allowing for a reasonable time for appeals that it should be swiftly conducted, more time than necessary on death row is just as inhumane, if not more so than the execution.

I believe that any police or court officer deliberately fabricating, ignoring or concealing evidence which could prove innocence should suffer the same fate.

Lethal injection is as good as any, it is cheap to administer and if done correctly should be quick and painless, and if they really have murdered someone I don't really care if it's not.

Executions should not be a public spectacle but the victims' immediate family should be able to witness.

John.

edited for a little typo
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 07:50:04 PM by Just John »
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Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2007, 07:49:40 PM »
The British Government, for several years prior to abolishing the death penalty re-defined 'murder' (in 1959 I think) which gave the effect of instantly lowering the murder rate thus manipulating the figures which showed the inevitable post abolition effect, which was, surprise! an increase in the murder rate. The Politicians at the time were thus able to claim that there was no increase and the temporary abolition should stay.

The murder rate in Britain today is now approximately 100 times greater per head of population than it was in 1969.

The average murderer in Britain today serves around 6 years in prison, in a cell with all modern facilities and comforts. He is allowed access to counselling, education, leisure activities and recreation; oh! and drugs, tobacco and alcohol are all freely available if you know the right people. After half the sentence he'll be moved to an open prison from where the ones who don't simply walk free will be able to go shopping, to the pub or other places of interest.

I believe that all murderers should forfeit their own life.

I believe that, allowing for a reasonable time for appeals that it should be softly conducted, more time than necessary on death row is just as inhumane, if not more so than the execution.

I believe that any police or court officer deliberately fabricating, ignoring or concealing evidence which could prove innocence should suffer the same fate.

Lethal injection is as good as any, it is cheap to administer and if done correctly should be quick and painless, and if they really have murdered someone I don't really care if it's not.

Executions should not be a public spectacle but the victims' immediate family should be able to witness.

John.


Well, we wouldn't want to punish people that rip a childs head off and skull fuck it.

That just wouldn't be right.

:P
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Offline Just John

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2007, 07:54:42 PM »
Not in this God forsaken country we wouldn't.

The rot has continued since then and we now have convicted murderers suing the Police and Government for "violations of their human rights" just because they are temporarily forced to go cold turkey on the drugs. The worst part is that the Government actually pay.

The lunatics have finally taken over the asylum.
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Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2007, 07:59:31 PM »
Tsk Tsk me if you must but I believe in the death penalty for crimes of murder. I forget where I heard it but I thought lethal injection was humane, that it paralyzes the organs. Honestly why should anyone care if they are in pain when they go? Some murderers have tortured their victims before killing them, imagine the victim's pain.

I guess I am just an eye for an eye type of person when it comes to the death penalty. And what do you mean by public? As in any person can go? I wouldn't mind seeing one if it was an injection, I don't think I could watch a person get fried in a chair.
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2007, 08:01:02 PM »
I believe that of the ways that a person could be put to death lethal injection would by far more humane. But I really don't give a rats ass if it hurts them or not. They should have thought about it before they murdered someone. I am however in agreement with Joe and that is do everything science has to offer to make sure, that someone is not getting wrongly put to death.

Modified to add: They should all be televised.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 08:05:08 PM by RapidRod »

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2007, 08:07:48 PM »
I guess I am just an eye for an eye type of person when it comes to the death penalty. And what do you mean by public? As in any person can go? I wouldn't mind seeing one if it was an injection, I don't think I could watch a person get fried in a chair.

Hey Queenie,

Aside from retribution, one of the reasons that many people say they support the death penalty is it's supposed deterrent effect. Nearly 18 months ago I wrote an article for the Spin Cycle about the execution in Singapore of a young Australian for drug trafficking.

In that article I explore the notion of deterrence and the increasing tendency (particularly in the US) for capital punishment to be "medicalised" in an effort to render the practice more palatable to a squeamish public. People should be aware that the blog article contains links to confronting material.

MtD

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2007, 08:21:21 PM »
Wow, death penalty for drugs, now that is a bit severe. I think the person should be able to choose what way they would like to exit this world. Now that would be a twist but you only see that on Oz. I guess I'm saying the punishment should fit the crime. You rape someone, child for instance, then clip his manhood. Rape a woman the same thing or the person gets raped...drug runner or whatever, tack on the max no early release. Hey, I know I sound barbaric to some but that's just me. I don't think anyone should get a tap on the wrist. I'm not speaking of people who are innocent of their crime, rare but it happens. In that instance, the person should get back a mill for every year they spent behind bars...I know, silly thinking on my part but just saying....
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2007, 08:42:10 PM »
Someone remind me how many death row convictions have recently been shown to have been in error after DNA stuff?  For this reason alone capital punishment in immoral, or at the very least in the majority of cases.
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Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2007, 08:49:25 PM »
Someone remind me how many death row convictions have recently been shown to have been in error after DNA stuff?  For this reason alone capital punishment in immoral, or at the very least in the majority of cases.

You're talking about people that were tried, convicted, and executed before DNA testing existed.

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Offline whizzer

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2007, 08:51:12 PM »
I do not support the death penalty under any circumstances.  Not even if you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt an individuals guilt. 

In the interest of compromise, however, I think it should be allowed by the state, but not carried out by the state.  The victim, victims, or families of the victims should be permitted to kill with their own hand those found guilty of a capital offense, by any method they deem suitable so long as: (1) they are in the same room with the person to be executed and (2) they remain in the room until it is certain their victim is dead and (3) they dispose of the body.

This way, society as a whole does not take on the moral burden of executions.  The individuals carrying out the sentence would carry the moral burden both here and in the hereafter.  And boy, would they EVER get closure - in spades.


Offline BT65

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2007, 09:01:12 PM »
This is one of the reasons I switched my major in school to Psychology instead of Criminal Justice.  I do have an associate's in Law Enforcement and close to a bachelor's in criminal justice.  In lethal injection, people suffer.  If something were done to my daughter or grandchildren that was indescribably horrible, then I would want to see the person suffer.  There are too many people who are innocent in the system (prison).  But this is not about living in prison (although these people on death row do for years) but about the death penalty.  I don't think it should be for public viewing, because, as I've seen in life and in my studies, there's a lot of people who just get off on watching that type of thing.  I think that would perpetuate more violence.  Definitely the victim's family should be able to watch the execution.  I could not be the one in the prison with the job of administering the drugs that kill a person, however.  I watched the movie Faces of Death (the first one) where they showed 1)a person getting fried and 2)the gas chamber.  The person in the electric chair had tape put over his eyes because otherwise his eyes would have popped out.  It was a really gross thing to see.  The gas chamber seemed to be the most humane, as the person who got put to death there only had to take a big inhalation of the gas and passed out, then nature took its course.   DNA changed the future of criminal justice forever.  I just saw on t.v. where someone who had been in prison for 20 years was just let out because DNA evidence showed he didn't commit the rape he was found guilty on.  I know for a fact (since a detective taught one of the classes I just took) that the DNA backlog in Indiana is two years!  And on a case they need it ASAP, it's a month.  I guess, after all this rattling, I don't really know what to believe on the death penalty.  I think all doubts about the person being guilty MUST be exhausted.  If there's ANY doubt, the person should be held until that doubt in question is answered.  Hey, did anyone ever see the movie Hurricane with Denzel Washington about the fighter Ruben Carter, the boxer who was sentenced to die then eventually was found innocent?  
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2007, 09:04:53 PM »
This is one of the reasons I switched my major in school to Psychology instead of Criminal Justice.  I do have an associate's in Law Enforcement and close to a bachelor's in criminal justice.  In lethal injection, people suffer.  If something were done to my daughter or grandchildren that was indescribably horrible, then I would want to see the person suffer.  There are too many people who are innocent in the system (prison).  But this is not about living in prison (although these people on death row do for years) but about the death penalty.  I don't think it should be for public viewing, because, as I've seen in life and in my studies, there's a lot of people who just get off on watching that type of thing.  I think that would perpetuate more violence.  Definitely the victim's family should be able to watch the execution.  I could not be the one in the prison with the job of administering the drugs that kill a person, however.  I watched the movie Faces of Death (the first one) where they showed 1)a person getting fried and 2)the gas chamber.  The person in the electric chair had tape put over his eyes because otherwise his eyes would have popped out.  It was a really gross thing to see.  The gas chamber seemed to be the most humane, as the person who got put to death there only had to take a big inhalation of the gas and passed out, then nature took its course.   DNA changed the future of criminal justice forever.  I just saw on t.v. where someone who had been in prison for 20 years was just let out because DNA evidence showed he didn't commit the rape he was found guilty on.  I know for a fact (since a detective taught one of the classes I just took) that the DNA backlog in Indiana is two years!  And on a case they need it ASAP, it's a month.  I guess, after all this rattling, I don't really know what to believe on the death penalty.  I think all doubts about the person being guilty MUST be exhausted.  If there's ANY doubt, the person should be held until that doubt in question is answered.  Hey, did anyone ever see the movie Hurricane with Denzel Washington about the fighter Ruben Carter, the boxer who was sentenced to die then eventually was found innocent? 

I really doubt there are many innocent people in prison, I'm sure it happens occasionally, but are we supposed to let 999 murderers, rapists, child molesters, and druggies out cause 1 person got sent to prison by mistake?
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Offline BT65

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2007, 09:07:40 PM »
Have you ever instensely studied criminal justice in college?  You'd be surprised at the number of innocents that have been wrongly convicted.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2007, 09:26:28 PM »
I should be serving 100 years in prison already for all the things that I did in my life that were unlawful.

But back to the subject, it's all about torture and revenge. I totally agree with Joe (Killfoile) when he says "As to how to legally kill someone I will always believe that humane is the way to go, otherwise we are no different from Charles Manson, because we would be deriving pleasure from the intentional and painful death of another human being."

I cannot fathom how terrible it is for parents to know how their little girl has been tortured and mutilated but, although impossible to achieve in those cases, I believe that reason must go beyond revenge, and that someone has to realize that torturing back will not bring their little girl back and will NOT ease their pain either, even if they get pleasure at the time the revenge is done. It will never be enough.

It is not to say that a criminal should think "oh well, I can go at it, the worst that will happen to me is an injection". Izprince, if we follow your reasoning, then it's even better for the criminal, only 2 years in prison, a injection and hop, it's all over.

I think that in the US the prison sentences are completely disparate and should be completely reviewed. And don't get me started with the "without parole" thingie..  but I digress :o
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

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Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2007, 09:28:01 PM »
I should be serving 100 years in prison already for all the things that I did in my life that were unlawful.

But back to the subject, it's all about torture and revenge. I totally agree with Joe (Killfoile) when he says "As to how to legally kill someone I will always believe that humane is the way to go, otherwise we are no different from Charles Manson, because we would be deriving pleasure from the intentional and painful death of another human being."

I cannot fathom how terrible it is for parents to know how their little girl has been tortured and mutilated but, although impossible to achieve in those cases, I believe that reason must go beyond revenge, and that someone has to realize that torturing back will not bring their little girl back and will NOT ease their pain either, even if they get pleasure at the time the revenge is done. It will never be enough.

It is not to say that a criminal should think "oh well, I can go at it, the worst that will happen to me is an injection". Izprince, if we follow your reasoning, then it's even better for the criminal, only 2 years in prison, a injection and hop, it's all over.

I think that in the US the prison sentences are completely disparate and should be completely reviewed. And don't get me started with the "without parole" thingie..  but I digress :o

I'm sure if someone raped and murdered your mom or sister or what have you, you'd want their head cut off and stuck on a pike.

People that are against the death penalty are all hypocrites for that reason.

And personally, if it happened to someone in my family, the bastard better hope he got convicted, because the things I would do to him would make lethal injection look like a day at Disney Land.
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Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2007, 09:50:31 PM »
I'm sure if someone raped and murdered your mom or sister or what have you, you'd want their head cut off and stuck on a pike.

People that are against the death penalty are all hypocrites for that reason.
I was waiting for that answer, i'm surprised it didn't come earlier. My grand-parents were murdered in Auschwitz, my sister almost got raped at 8yo (I came back to the hotel room and saw a hotel employee starting to fuck her), my mum died of lung cancer and my dad of alcoholism, add that to the mix if I wanted to blame those cigarette and liquor companies. is that enough for you to consider that I've had some experience and I'm not living in lalaland?

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline libvet

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2007, 09:52:23 PM »
I really doubt there are many innocent people in prison, I'm sure it happens occasionally, but are we supposed to let 999 murderers, rapists, child molesters, and druggies out cause 1 person got sent to prison by mistake?

Rubbish. We have the ability to sentence people to life in prison without any possibility of parole.  This notion that if we abolish the death penalty we are letting everyone out of prison is a ludicrous and poorly thought out statement.

I used to support the death penalty until I began to see people being freed from death row and wondered how many people who were not guilty of the crime which they were convicted of were put to death.

And it's still not an all or nothing.  You can still get a death penalty sentence without any dna evidence being presented in the case by EITHER side because not everything is subject to a dna test to determine the facts.  What that means, in effect, is that we are STILL using many of the very same "tried and true" methods that wrongly convicted people in the past to this very day.

We are not perfect people and by extension, our justice system is imperfect.  A justice system that is capable of making such grave errors should never be granted the ability to pass down an irrevocable sentence, which the death penalty is.

If we are wrong about a single person and put them to death, we become party to murder ourselves.  State sanctioned and legal, but intentionally killing an innocent person is NEVER right, whether it's in the act of homicide or the act of meting out "justice", it's simply a risk not worth taking when we have other options available to us that are just as effective at removing a dangerous person from society without running the risk of killing an innocent person.

It's simply an unnecessary and potentially tragic sentence to impose a death penalty.

And certainly I understand that there are some monsters out there that don't deserve to live, but my sense of justice for ALL overrules my need for vengeance.  I cannot in good conscience sanction the death penalty when I know that our justice system is deeply flawed, sometimes intentionally by overzealous prosecutors, sometimes unintentionally by people who really believe that the person they have charged with a crime is guilty.....but it's flawed all the same.  Innocent people get convicted of crimes and guilty people get exonerated.  We've seen it time and again in our system.

At the very least, if we do wrongly convict someone, we can make some amends to the person who we wronged in that way.  Once the death penalty is carried out, that option is off the table forever.  There is no way to bring someone back to life, but they can freed if we have wrongly convicted them and locked them away from society.

It's a tough debate and I know that if someone killed one of my loved ones a part of me would like nothing better than to see them die for that crime, but I still would not support it.

And quite honestly, I will never understand anyone who takes the line that it doesn't matter if we occasionally impose a death sentence on someone who is not guilty of that crime because most of those we do impose the death penalty on are guilty.   Killing a wrongly convicted person is a horrible miscarriage of justice from which there is no going back.  If a person can support occasionally killing an innocent person as long as the majority are guilty, then how are we really any better than those we think deserve to die?

And we have such a simple solution to avoiding that without putting society at any undue risk; life in prison with no possibility of parole.   I see no benefit in risking the state sanctioned execution of an innocent person when we have alternatives available to us. 
 

Offline libvet

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2007, 10:04:08 PM »
I'm sure if someone raped and murdered your mom or sister or what have you, you'd want their head cut off and stuck on a pike.

People that are against the death penalty are all hypocrites for that reason.

And personally, if it happened to someone in my family, the bastard better hope he got convicted, because the things I would do to him would make lethal injection look like a day at Disney Land.

But isn't that what separates us from the criminals?  They act on their base impulses and desires. 

Aristotle said "The law is reason free from passion" and endorsing the death penalty because you have a thirst for revenge is the antithesis of what our justice system should be about.

We have the means to prevent a person from ever harming society again without the death penalty.  Another death is not going to fill that empty space in your life left by the actions of a monster with no regard for life.

And what if you are wrong?  How would you feel if you sat in that room and watched a man get executed only to find out that your local forensics lab was fudging the evidence to increase the chances of conviction and the person who was put death was not the person who committed that crime? 

What then?  Would the family of that person be justified in seeking the death penalty against the jurors and judges and prosecutors and witnesses in that case who helped kill an innocent person?

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2007, 10:08:16 PM »
I was waiting for that answer, i'm surprised it didn't come earlier.

Like Milkie, Matty the Damned was waiting for IzPrince to blunder into that particular sinkhole. Debates on Teh Intahwebs are full of old traps for young players.

MtD

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2007, 10:20:51 PM »
It's a waste of money to keep those people alive and incarcerated.
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Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2007, 10:23:33 PM »
Iz you never broke any law? Ever?

Just wondering.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2007, 10:30:11 PM »
I feel like Rush Limbaugh joined the board recently.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2007, 10:32:50 PM »
I feel like Rush Limbaugh joined the board recently.
And we're waiting for Dr Laura. She's on her way.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline puertorico2006

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2007, 10:35:30 PM »
It's a waste of money to keep those people alive and incarcerated.

The goverment wastes a lot of money to keep us alive ...should they just let us die off?

I have broken a law before so should i be denied life because of a mistake?

Taking away someones freedom and preventing them from causing more harm is punishment....maybe not enough to some standards but i know i would probably go nuts if i lost my freedom....
Infected Probably: may 2005
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Offline libvet

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2007, 10:36:28 PM »
It's a waste of money to keep those people alive and incarcerated.

I'm sure many people felt the same way about the 123 people freed from death row who sat there for an average of 9.2 years before they were freed.

I hear many death penalty proponents opine that we let people remain alive far too long after a death sentence has been given....so what is the limit?

Should those people wrongly convicted have been given a year to make their case and then executed? 

What then?  123 people wrongly put to death?

How does one reconcile that?

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2007, 10:37:12 PM »
The goverment wastes a lot of money to keep us alive ...should they just let us die off?

Sean Hannity already answered that one for us last night in another thread. 
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2007, 10:45:08 PM »
If Aristotle, saw today, what it cost to house a death row inmate he would say, "No fucking way, juice the creep." Guys are you all willing to pay extra taxes, have you benefits cut, lose you medical prescriptions (something has to happen to get money) for the building of more prisons to house those you don't seem to want put to death?

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2007, 10:53:53 PM »
If Aristotle, saw today, what it cost to house a death row inmate he would say, "No fucking way, juice the creep." Guys are you all willing to pay extra taxes, have you benefits cut, lose you medical prescriptions (something has to happen to get money) for the building of more prisons to house those you don't seem to want put to death?

Well, if the Democrats are in office, they'll just hike the tax on everyone that bothers to work to pay for all the leeches.

If the Republicans are in office, they'll borrow more money and increase our national debt.

What I propose is to just do away with the bloated government and let people fend for themselves, I mean I know I'd be just dandy if they quit taxing me and let me use MY MONEY that I EARNED to fund MY LIFE, unfortunately I have to help carry all the "dead elephants" who spend their whole lives on the public welfare system and Socialized Insecurity.
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Offline libvet

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2007, 10:55:56 PM »
If Aristotle, saw today, what it cost to house a death row inmate he would say, "No fucking way, juice the creep." Guys are you all willing to pay extra taxes, have you benefits cut, lose you medical prescriptions (something has to happen to get money) for the building of more prisons to house those you don't seem to want put to death?

Perhaps we should stop putting people in jail for consensual or victimless crimes?  I'm not sure that putting people in jail for smoking pot or snorting coke is a smart idea.

There are approximately 500000 people serving time in prison for possession of drugs.

There are around 3200 people sitting on death row.

I rather think we can afford to keep people who pose a REAL danger behind bars when we can waste so much money putting people in jail for getting caught with a bag of weed.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2007, 10:56:47 PM »
What I propose is to just do away with the bloated government and let people fend for themselves, I mean I know I'd be just dandy if they quit taxing me and let me use MY MONEY that I EARNED to fund MY LIFE, unfortunately I have to help carry all the "dead elephants" who spend their whole lives on the public welfare system and Socialized Insecurity.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

May I present that most curious and amusing of political beasts, The Libertarian.

MtD

Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2007, 10:57:41 PM »
Can we go back to the original question, which was "in the case of death penalty, would you go for torture or not" basically.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2007, 11:00:50 PM »
Can we go back to the original question, which was "in the case of death penalty, would you go for torture or not" basically.

Milker.


Milkie,

I was sufficiently broad in my OP that all of the topics raised thus far are entirely on topic. Take your limp wristed complaints about hi-jacking bck to one of your own flowery threads.

MtD
(Who appreciates a wide scope in debate)

Offline libvet

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2007, 11:01:52 PM »

What I propose is to just do away with the bloated government and let people fend for themselves, I mean I know I'd be just dandy if they quit taxing me and let me use MY MONEY that I EARNED to fund MY LIFE, unfortunately I have to help carry all the "dead elephants" who spend their whole lives on the public welfare system and Socialized Insecurity.

And assuming you, like the vast majority of us on this board, have HIV and your disease progresses to a point that makes you unable to work and pay taxes, are you willing to die for your beliefs and abstain from getting any kind of public assistance to help you pay for your medications and living expenses?

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2007, 11:03:36 PM »
Can we go back to the original question, which was "in the case of death penalty, would you go for torture or not" basically.

Milker.

Oh absolutely, they should give me that job, I'd go in there with a whip, a shock stick, a baseball bat, a couple of car batteries with alligator clip electrodes, brass knuckles, and a few pounds of salt.
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Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2007, 11:05:26 PM »
And assuming you, like the vast majority of us on this board, have HIV and your disease progresses to a point that makes you unable to work and pay taxes, are you willing to die for your beliefs and abstain from getting any kind of public assistance to help you pay for your medications and living expenses?

We wouldn't need the government assistance in that case.

The whole reason the drug companies gouge is because they know the government will pay them billions of dollars.

Now if nobody was buying their drugs at that price, then the price would come down, because you know they're charging like a 1000% markup on those pills to begin with.

Aside from that, there are other types of treatment that cost less than $100 a month, the FDA is so in bed with the pharmaceutical cartels that they won't let these treatments be labeled as such though.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 11:07:02 PM by izprince1984 »
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Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2007, 11:12:53 PM »
Can we go back to the original question, which was "in the case of death penalty, would you go for torture or not" basically.

Milker.


Milkie,

I was sufficiently broad in my OP that all of the topics raised thus far are entirely on topic. Take your limp wristed complaints about hi-jacking bck to one of your own flowery threads.

MtD
(Who appreciates a wide scope in debate)

Hi Matty,

I'm sorry but my knowledge of English is not broad enough to understand your reply. You are welcome to PM me if you think that I got the original post wrong. I thought your original post was trying to focus on questioning if the punishing by those medications was appropriate. I guess I should have gotten the hint in your first post and not reply, but I'm sorry to disappoint you this is an open forum, and unless prohibited by the moderators I will post whatever I feel is appropriate to answer, even if you hint that I should be excluded. Now take a deep breath and let's continue this interesting topic, or PM me if you have issues with it.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2007, 11:16:21 PM »
I'm sorry but my knowledge of English is not broad enough to understand your reply. You are welcome to PM me if you think that I got the original post wrong. I thought your original post was trying to focus on questioning if the punishing by those medications was appropriate. I guess I should have gotten the hint in your first post and not reply, but I'm sorry to disappoint you this is an open forum, and unless prohibited by the moderators I will post whatever I feel is appropriate to answer, even if you hint that I should be excluded. Now take a deep breath and let's continue this interesting topic, or PM me if you have issues with it.

Milker.


MIlkie,

It's funny you know, your grasp of English is always good enough until things get a bit rocky. Then suddenly you don't understand.

Just let the debate rage doll. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

MtD

Offline libvet

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2007, 11:18:19 PM »
We wouldn't need the government assistance in that case.

The whole reason the drug companies gouge is because they know the government will pay them billions of dollars.

Now if nobody was buying their drugs at that price, then the price would come down, because you know they're charging like a 1000% markup on those pills to begin with.

Aside from that, there are other types of treatment that cost less than $100 a month, the FDA is so in bed with the pharmaceutical cartels that they won't let these treatments be labeled as such though.

I don't even know where to begin with such a flawed premise.  But let's assume (for the sake of the discussion) that last part is true.

But where are you going to get a 100 dollars a month if you are unable to work?  Where are you gonna live?  How are you going to eat?  Who is going to pay for your doctor visits? 

Sure drug companies gouge us, but most of us are not getting our drugs from the government run programs.....most of us are getting them through our insurance companies.    How does one explain that?  It's private sector and everyone "knows" that everything the private sector does is so MUCH BETTER than a government run program which is why 30 percent of your private insurance dollar goes to administrative costs and only 2-3 percent each tax dollar spent on health care programs goes for administrative costs.  It probably also explains why in Canada where they have universal public health care, they pay much much less per capita for health care and medication than our so much better private sector solution to health care which not only costs more per capita than any country with universal health care, but also leaves 45 million with no access to health care AT ALL.


Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2007, 11:18:47 PM »
If Aristotle, saw today, what it cost to house a death row inmate he would say, "No fucking way, juice the creep." Guys are you all willing to pay extra taxes, have you benefits cut, lose you medical prescriptions (something has to happen to get money) for the building of more prisons to house those you don't seem to want put to death?

Wow... I wonder how so many other countries do it then?  This is the same tired argument you've offered repeatedly regarding national healthcare.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2007, 11:20:18 PM »
MIlkie,

It's funny you know, your grasp of English is always good enough until things get a bit rocky.

It's funny you say that, I was expecting it. I actually don't understand most of your posts, but I think (and hope) I get the basics of them. I think you can see in my writing that i'm not native. I have a pretty good understanding but you're using language that is not easily understood by non-natives, so we have to think a lot, which is good.

Now that you said you wanted the debate to be open wider, then let's go for it. I was trying to keep the debate closed to what you originally suggested. Next time, mention that you're open for a wider debate.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2007, 11:23:22 PM »
I mean I know I'd be just dandy if they quit taxing me

Excuse me?  Exactly how much income tax does someone pay who is admittedly on food stamps?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline BT65

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2007, 11:24:24 PM »
Why doesn't someone just start a "Free For All" thread?
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2007, 11:25:02 PM »
No, all you are going to do is talk shit and step in it...you are going to go to your job at WalMart and then tell us what a tough guy you are and how you showed them...you will beg with the best of them when you need meds, and one day you will need meds...the only thing you will ever torture is us by constantly trying to blow smoke up our asses...you are going to do everything you say you won't do because bottom line you are all talk and nothing more. You think you got it all figured out but you're just another angry white guy with aids.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2007, 11:27:18 PM »
are you willing to die for your beliefs and abstain from getting any kind of public assistance to help you pay for your medications and living expenses?

Honey, that tired hypocritical queen is on food stamps RIGHT NOW.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2007, 11:28:24 PM »
Excuse me?  Exactly how much income tax does someone pay who is admittedly on food stamps?

You selectively read my comments don't you?

I'm on food stamps for a few months while I'm taking job training, then I will be off of them.

Last year I paid about $4,800 to the Fed, State, and County.

Anyway, if it wasn't for things like GATT/NAFTA/CAFTA and other government bullshit, we wouldn't even be in the mess of millions of people suddenly unemployed or underemployed.

 :-*
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 11:30:02 PM by izprince1984 »
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2007, 11:30:13 PM »
You selectively read my comments don't you?

I'm on food stamps for a few months while I'm taking job training, then I will be off of them.

Last year I paid about $4,800 to the Fed, State, and County.

 :-*

You're still a hypocrite my dear.
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Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2007, 11:32:15 PM »
You're still a hypocrite my dear.
I may create MtD furor but this is off topic.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2007, 11:32:50 PM »
You're still a hypocrite my dear.

No, just a slave of the system.

Most of what goes on around us is due to corrupt government officials, a broken and inefficient system, and an intentional dose of socialism to make a permanent underclass.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2007, 11:33:07 PM »
no
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2007, 11:36:56 PM »
Perhaps we should stop putting people in jail for consensual or victimless crimes?  I'm not sure that putting people in jail for smoking pot or snorting coke is a smart idea.

There are approximately 500000 people serving time in prison for possession of drugs.

There are around 3200 people sitting on death row.

I rather think we can afford to keep people who pose a REAL danger behind bars when we can waste so much money putting people in jail for getting caught with a bag of weed.

libvet, have you ever been robbed by a junkie? Have you ever had you house broke into by a bunch of junkies? Have you ever had your car stolen by some junkies to go buy drugs? You want those people on the street? Why not let the child molesters out too. They don't seal, or rob. 

Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2007, 11:41:39 PM »
Ok so I get it. This thread is about the good and the bad. Finally I get it. Matty is twisted enough to start a thread that initially has a serious question that is very interesting but won't keep it closed and let it go awry without control. I'm sure he's laughing hard. I suddenly get it. I'm slow, but i'm outta. You win. I initially thought you were serious. My mistake.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline thunter34

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2007, 11:45:57 PM »
I may create MtD furor but this is off topic.

Milker.

Milker, honey....it's Matty's thread & I'm sure he is more than capable of keeping charge of it.

Just sayin'.


And an aside to Queen from way up above:  I couldn't help but notice you advocated something along the lines of"  "drug runners- put the max on and don't shut off the valve" or the like.  Curious because you are such a noted smoker of the green.  You do realize that (even if not specifically for yourself as a small buyer), you are advocating the "max" be put on the face of someone up the line who supplies for you, right?  Unlesss, of course, you somehow are getting it completely all legal-like for medicinal purposes...but I doubt that is the case in philly.  Not picking a fight with ya, girl...just saw that comment and thought it unusual.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 11:51:26 PM by thunter34 »
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2007, 11:46:21 PM »
Milker, it's a good post. There are just a lot of opinions and no real solutions. Not everyone is going to be happy.

Offline BT65

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2007, 11:46:34 PM »
izprince- do you even know what those words that you throw around mean?
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2007, 11:49:12 PM »
izprince- do you even know what those words that you throw around mean?

Of course I do.
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Offline libvet

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2007, 11:50:49 PM »
You selectively read my comments don't you?

I'm on food stamps for a few months while I'm taking job training, then I will be off of them.

Last year I paid about $4,800 to the Fed, State, and County.

Anyway, if it wasn't for things like GATT/NAFTA/CAFTA and other government bullshit, we wouldn't even be in the mess of millions of people suddenly unemployed or underemployed.

 :-*

Wow....this gets more surreal by the second.

I'll take a pass on the hypocrisy of decrying taxes that I am happy to pay to help people who need help such as yourself to pay for basic necessities like like food, shelter, medicine...I don't think either of us want to go there and to be honest, some things speak for themselves.

If anything GATT/NAFTA/CAFTA and other such "free trade" agreements are a LOWERING of government protectionism.  It is the absolute epitome of the "free market" that allows companies to move their manufacturing base to places that pay slave wages and then dump the goods on our country and destroy our manufacturing base.  Surely someone with such a "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" rugged individualist who despises government interference wouldn't want the government stepping in and putting a stop to allowing companies to get their goods and labor anywhere they so desire?

And I've been on the receiving end of that.  I'm three years past having my job outsourced and going back to school to learn a new trade. It took draining my 401k and savings to absolutely nothing and working the graveyard shift in a convenience store while going to school to do so, but other than a month of unemployment insurance, I managed to stay off the public dole.

We are in complete harmony on our dislike of so-called "free trade agreements" that are a race to the bottom and hurt the American worker, but I am not so blinded by my ideology that I wring my hands at the pitfalls of removing government interference in trade matters while simultaneously thinking the government is somehow my enemy.   You can't hate the government then turn around and blame them when they STOP looking out for our interests.  That's just.....bizarre.   I'd like the government to step in and stop letting America become the dumping grounds for cheap goods made for slave wages in some sweatshop while watching our workforce get further and further behind.


Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2007, 11:50:58 PM »
Matty is twisted enough to start a thread that initially has a serious question that is very interesting but won't keep it closed and let it go awry without control.

No Milkie,

I've just learned that debates on Teh Intahwebs tend to be organic. It's one of those few things that Philly and I agree on. Rather than getting all prissy about hijacking I like to let these things go in whatever direction they seem to want to.

In any event I have no power to direct people on how they should post. And nor do you.

Subjects like capital punishment always point to deeper underlying issues and it's interesting to let those flesh out as well.

It's called a full and frank exchange of views. You should try it sometime dear.

MtD

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2007, 11:55:42 PM »
...other than a month of unemployment insurance, I managed to stay off the public dole.

Actually, unemployment tax is collected from your employer based on a percentage of your pay, so technically that is not a form of welfare since it is essentially more money you earned that the government took.
ryan@ryan-desktop:~$ apt-get moo
         (__)
         (oo)
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Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #66 on: April 26, 2007, 12:03:16 AM »
Now Matty the Damned is not really concerned with whether or not forums members are pro or anti death penalty. By all means post your views, but that subject seems pretty well decided in the US.

Then keep your thread up to topic. I seriously believed that you were not interested in death penalty discussion when reading this, and you were more interested in the other part which was about punishment related to the crime, which I found profoundly interesting.

I'm sorry but in the In tha net nobody "owns" a thread. So get over it. Yeah I said "get over it" to Matty.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline libvet

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #67 on: April 26, 2007, 12:04:20 AM »
libvet, have you ever been robbed by a junkie? Have you ever had you house broke into by a bunch of junkies? Have you ever had your car stolen by some junkies to go buy drugs? You want those people on the street? Why not let the child molesters out too. They don't seal, or rob. 

Child molesters are rapists.  I think we can agree that a person who molests a child has committed a heinous act against another person and is a threat to society.  So the analogy doesn't really hold water.

As for druggies, no I have not been the victim of theft from a junkie.  I have been the victim of a drunk driver using his legal drug while getting behind the wheel.

If a junkie resorts to theft to support his habit, punish him for THEFT.  If he's like most of the pot smokers I have known, who work full time jobs, raise kids, don't steal, and pretty much are indistinguishable from anyone else, why on earth should I care what their private vices are when they are not infringing on me?  Hell, I've been known to buy a bag of week or more in my life and never harmed another soul and never resorted to theft or violence to do so and have been a productive taxpaying citizen since high school.   

Do you honestly believe your (and my) tax dollars should be spent putting ME in jail for smoking pot now and then?  If I ever start to steal or commit violence, you can prosecute me to your heart's content, but until I start infringing on someone else, you don't have a leg to stand on.

You might as well say, "Have you ever seen a company where a CEO or embezzler or thief  stole from the company to support their upper class lifestyle?"  Should owning nice things and spending a lot of money be a crime as well since some people resort to theft and fraud to support a better lifestyle?  Of course not.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #68 on: April 26, 2007, 12:12:50 AM »
What I find most disconcerting about this thread is the absolute disgust and hatred that some posters have for their fellow humans.  I have been a victim of violent crime and I support reasonable laws, but do some of you people hear yourselves?  We are supposed to be sentient beings and you see no problem in jailing, torturing or whatever, just because you or a family member have been wronged.  Funny thing about my family, the last thing either of my parents would ever want me to do was to exact revenge on another human, no matter what their crime.

I was reared to cherish life and every life, yes even the child molester, is important, because we are all human beings.  It is the fact that we are human, with the capabilities that we possess that sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom.  To think that a society that can put a person on the moon and repair heart damage in unborn infants, can actually take pleasure in the suffering of others.

Some of you should be beyond shame.

Offline libvet

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2007, 12:13:02 AM »
Actually, unemployment tax is collected from your employer based on a percentage of your pay, so technically that is not a form of welfare since it is essentially more money you earned that the government took.

Well then, I also pay a medicare tax and many other taxes that pay for programs you call "welfare" which means it's not really welfare since if I receive any of those benefits it is essentially more money I earned that the government took.

And it doesn't bother me in the slightest.  If some of that money goes to put food in the mouths of the hungry and provides medications to the elderly or any number of things.....I think I can bear that burden with enormous fortitude.

Offline BT65

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #70 on: April 26, 2007, 12:14:55 AM »
Tu shay (SP?) libvet! ;D
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline thunter34

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #71 on: April 26, 2007, 12:15:43 AM »
Then keep your thread up to topic. I seriously believed that you were not interested in death penalty discussion when reading this, and you were more interested in the other part which was about punishment related to the crime, which I found profoundly interesting.

I'm sorry but in the In tha net nobody "owns" a thread. So get over it. Yeah I said "get over it" to Matty.

Milker.

I'm like Matty and philly on how I like threads I initiate to flow- freely.  I find it makes for more interesting discussions.  And most of the time, truly compelling subject matter will not get completely lost in the discourse.  You'll usually end up with good discussion of that and then some.

While it might be true that no one "owns" a thread on the net, it is generally accepted that the original poster has the overall say-so in how a thread flows (barring some intervention from the moderators).  

By the by...I could have sworn you told me you were taking a 30 day break from the forums in light of all the rotten things you said in posts one evening not too long back.

Whatever happened to that?  Just wonderin'.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2007, 12:17:34 AM »
Some of you should be beyond shame.

Agreed.  It's hard to take someone serious who is advocating torture with this issue.  I'm glad I keep 3x5 index cards on file to refer to later with certain posters here.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2007, 12:21:02 AM »
Agreed.  It's hard to take someone serious who is advocating torture with this issue.  I'm glad I keep 3x5 index cards on file to refer to later with certain posters here.

I don't see anything wrong with letting the punishment fit the crime.

It's child molesters and murderers that should not be given the rights of being human.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2007, 12:22:45 AM »
I don't see anything wrong with letting the punishment fit the crime.

It's child molesters and murderers that should not be given the rights of being human.

Please go into detail about exactly what kind of torture should be done for particular crimes.  This will be endlessly fascinating for me.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2007, 12:23:41 AM »
I really doubt there are many innocent people in prison, I'm sure it happens occasionally, but are we supposed to let 999 murderers, rapists, child molesters, and druggies out cause 1 person got sent to prison by mistake?

iz, my brother is a CO at CRC in Columbus. He says, all of the inmates claim to be innocent. Half of them that come in are returns and have previous numbers.

Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #76 on: April 26, 2007, 12:23:45 AM »
Please go into detail about exactly what kind of torture should be done for particular crimes.  This will be endlessly fascinating for me.

I liked the idea of castrating sex offenders before they get released.
ryan@ryan-desktop:~$ apt-get moo
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Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2007, 12:25:03 AM »
iz, my brother is a CO at CRC in Columbus. He says, all of the inmates claim to be innocent. Half of them that come in are returns and have previous numbers.

Of course, once a criminal, always a criminal.

There is no such thing as "rehabilitation", as soon as you let them out, they're right back at whatever they were doing before.
ryan@ryan-desktop:~$ apt-get moo
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #78 on: April 26, 2007, 12:29:06 AM »
Please go into detail about exactly what kind of torture should be done for particular crimes.  This will be endlessly fascinating for me.

Hmmm, I'll have to take some time and think about it. I know I could come up with some that would cost less than the drugs used for lethal injections.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2007, 12:30:20 AM »
Do some of you, not see what you are doing???  When you promote hatred, against any group, no matter how "deserving" you simply reduce the collective soul of society.  We are more outraged at Don Ismus comments, than the Hip Hop music that is more denigrating to blacks than any white man could ever be.  The States have become so inured to violence that it seems to have become a national sport.  And when you talk hatred like this, you also unwittingly support the degradation of the least amongst us.

When you reduce people to animals, worthy of torture, caging and eventual slaughter, what are you teaching our young?  You wonder why nobody cares if people die of HIV, it is because we have reduced the value of life to almost nothing.  People kill people over articles of clothing.  Think about this the next time you seek to demonize another and make no mistake that as long as you feel that way, countries will see no issue in ignoring the needs of their citizens.  It's sport to beat up homeless people, so who will ever know if we just don't fund HIV services and thousands (or millions) die?  Because in the end, far too many no longer value human life.

I will never strive to advance in life, on the backs of my fellow humans.

Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #80 on: April 26, 2007, 12:34:30 AM »
I'm like Matty and philly on how I like threads I initiate to flow- freely.  I find it makes for more interesting discussions.  And most of the time, truly compelling subject matter will not get completely lost in the discourse.  You'll usually end up with good discussion of that and then some.

While it might be true that no one "owns" a thread on the net, it is generally accepted that the original poster has the overall say-so in how a thread flows (barring some intervention from the moderators). 

By the by...I could have sworn you told me you were taking a 30 day break from the forums in light of all the rotten things you said in posts one evening not too long back.

Whatever happened to that?  Just wonderin'.

Oooo!  :o :o Attack.

Ok let me reply, and i'm sure Matty won't give a shit about this hijack since it's a reply to an attack.

So yes, I initially thought this Matty thread was very interesting,  because he was specifically saying that it was not a thread about death penalty, but rather a thread about revenge. I thought it was actually a very interesting thread, thinking it was a good start by putting the overall death penalty discussion aside.

I noted his request for me to not participate in the discussion in his first post, but ignored it because I thought this was actually a very interesting discussion. Internet exchanges are not easily conveying thoughts, and i'm not as good as a writer as he is, so I believe that I have not conveyed my thoughts to him and you the way I actually intended them to be conveyed.

I believe your dislike for me is related to my reactions to Herman's and Boo's problems. You will hate me forever for what I said, that's fine. You will hate me for my happy posts and you're waiting for me to post a seriously distressed post and say "ahAH there you go! Now you're not laughing anymore".

Give me a break, give yourself a break. We're all having to deal with this. And yes, we will disagree on some topics, it's fine, just don't make it a serious issue, we all need each other.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline BT65

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #81 on: April 26, 2007, 12:43:46 AM »
Milker- You know I happen to LOVE your posts and you're always ACEs with me! ;D
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline BT65

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2007, 12:45:26 AM »
PS, iz, some people DO get rehabilitated. One of my best friends was in Westville prison in Indiana, got into recovery while on the inside and now has his PhD in psychology and is helping other people. 
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2007, 12:46:36 AM »
Joe, I don't know if I miss understood you or not. What would be a deterant to commit murder, if the criminal knew they would get life? What about the guy at VT if he wouldn't have taken his own life? Give him life while 32 of his victims are dead? Hell no. Give a child molester 15 to life and he can get out in 7.5 years and do it again to some other child. I don't think so. Sorry Joe if I miss understood you.

Offline thunter34

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2007, 12:52:58 AM »
Oooo!  :o :o Attack.

Ok let me reply, and i'm sure Matty won't give a shit about this hijack since it's a reply to an attack.

So yes, I initially thought this Matty thread was very interesting,  because he was specifically saying that it was not a thread about death penalty, but rather a thread about revenge. I thought it was actually a very interesting thread, thinking it was a good start by putting the overall death penalty discussion aside.

I noted his request for me to not participate in the discussion in his first post, but ignored it because I thought this was actually a very interesting discussion. Internet exchanges are not easily conveying thoughts, and i'm not as good as a writer as he is, so I believe that I have not conveyed my thoughts to him and you the way I actually intended them to be conveyed.

I believe your dislike for me is related to my reactions to Herman's and Boo's problems. You will hate me forever for what I said, that's fine. You will hate me for my happy posts and you're waiting for me to post a seriously distressed post and say "ahAH there you go! Now you're not laughing anymore".

Give me a break, give yourself a break. We're all having to deal with this. And yes, we will disagree on some topics, it's fine, just don't make it a serious issue, we all need each other.

Milker.


Oh, hon...an "attack"?  It's really not all that.  The "you will hate me forever" and "you're just waiting for such & such so you can say ahAH" business makes me suspect you are grossly over-estimating my feelings about you and that incident as well.  I only brought it up becuase of all the "get over it" kind of statements you were making above.  It read as though you were getting worked up out of proportion about Matty and how this thread was going.  You had said that you felt you were getting too invested in these forums and needed time away to turn your focus inward.  I thought those comments above were suggestive of that, so I made that statement as a reminder.

Give you a break?  You're the one that claimed you needed a break.  I was just reminding you of that because it looked like you were getting a bit edged.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline thunter34

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2007, 12:55:22 AM »
I liked the idea of castrating sex offenders before they get released.

The guy mentioned up above who just got released from prison after serving 20 years for a rape he didn't commit is from right here in Atlanta.  I'm sure he is grateful there were cooler heads than yours in charge.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline milker

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #86 on: April 26, 2007, 01:03:00 AM »

Oh, hon...an "attack"?  It's really not all that.  The "you will hate me forever" and "you're just waiting for such & such so you can say ahAH" business makes me suspect you are grossly over-estimating my feelings about you and that incident as well.  I only brought it up becuase of all the "get over it" kind of statements you were making above.  It read as though you were getting worked up out of proportion about Matty and how this thread was going.  You had said that you felt you were getting too invested in these forums and needed time away to turn your focus inward.  I thought those comments above were suggestive of that, so I made that statement as a reminder.

Give you a break?  You're the one that claimed you needed a break.  I was just reminding you of that because it looked like you were getting a bit edged.


ROFL i'm fine, thanks for asking. What I realize in this post is that Matty was not honest to start with, and he was wanting for this confrontation to happen. i seriously thought from his initial post that he was asking a genuine question and would keep it on track.. Obviously this post was a free for all post and i'm not interested in it anymore.

What I would say to Matty is "you can do better".

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline thunter34

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2007, 01:35:10 AM »
I'm still not getting you, Milker.  The whole "Matty wasn't honest" thing? 

Not attacking...just not seeing it. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #88 on: April 26, 2007, 01:52:23 AM »
Whatever happened to family night on Sundays?

It's time to bring it back with live and televised productions where viewers can call in and vote on the method of execution.

Vote 1 for hanging,
vote 2 for firing squad
Vote 3 for death by chainsaw
Vote 4 for gladiator showdown

Make it more fun and have contestants playing for valuable prizes and fabulous vacations... and when they answer wrong... off with the convicts head.

Ooooh, it could be a good ol', down home, traditional values family night that bonds families together.  Kids and parents don't talk enough these days and this will be a good opportunity to talk about imporant issues like blood splatter and torture.

Hell, make it pay-per-kill if you want :)  Sell tickets and have it at your local sports arena.

It's be a boon for the economy.

I'm poppin popcorn!  Who has the JuJuBee's?


Offline izprince1984

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #89 on: April 26, 2007, 02:09:36 AM »
Whatever happened to family night on Sundays?

It's time to bring it back with live and televised productions where viewers can call in and vote on the method of execution.

Vote 1 for hanging,
vote 2 for firing squad
Vote 3 for death by chainsaw
Vote 4 for gladiator showdown

Make it more fun and have contestants playing for valuable prizes and fabulous vacations... and when they answer wrong... off with the convicts head.

Ooooh, it could be a good ol', down home, traditional values family night that bonds families together.  Kids and parents don't talk enough these days and this will be a good opportunity to talk about imporant issues like blood splatter and torture.

Hell, make it pay-per-kill if you want :)  Sell tickets and have it at your local sports arena.

It's be a boon for the economy.

I'm poppin popcorn!  Who has the JuJuBee's?



What about dumping our entire prison population in Iraq and handing them M16's? :D
ryan@ryan-desktop:~$ apt-get moo
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         (oo)
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Offline SASA39

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #90 on: April 26, 2007, 05:17:46 AM »
As for every problem there are two sides : one as an innocent bystander streaving for justice , and another one as a relative of a victime.
For me some punishment could be worse than death itself.
Judge someone to that kind (Death) of sentence and then porspone it forever.
Or put him in a nuthouse in a solitaire room and throw away the key........
Just food and shower once a week.............
                                   Al
P.S : And just what kind of punishment deserve that poor Corean creature  that have shoted 32 people ? Just a question...................
Or someone that deliberately infect other peerson with this nasty bug of ours ?

Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline carousel

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #91 on: April 26, 2007, 05:33:36 AM »
I am completely against the death penalty in any circumstances.

It is not the justice system's role to execute revenge on the criminal.

I also just wanted to present a different argument to John's about the murder rates in Britain.

In 2005/6, there were about 750 murders in the whole country.  That figure may seem a lot to some, but people's perception, fuelled by media frenzy, is that we live in Murder Central. 

Most victims are still killed by friends or family and the deaths are largely concentrated in big city areas.

To say that murder rates have gone up 100 times in 30 years, is to report only half the story.

We have seen a number of high profile cases in the last decade, where people have been acquitted on murder charges.  Some had been in prison for many years.  That any one of them might have been murdered by the state in this way, in the name of so called justice, is indefensible.

Offline jack

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #92 on: April 26, 2007, 06:12:19 AM »
izprince, i love your idea. I thought after 911 we should have rounded up every murderous scumbag from our prisons and parachute them into Afghanistan and Iraq, armed to the teeth. I would love to see the brave militant Islams or whatever we are calling them today wake up and a Jeffrey Dalmer or Charly Manson fully armed in their home.
I also believe we should give Maui to the Jews and let them all move there and give Israel to the Palestinians so they can work the same economic miracle there that the Jews have. Sorry went off topic. Fuck it, its Mattys post.
It depends what you call torture. If you call what went on Abu Grabbi torture, no way. Dressing death rowers up as women and having them pose naked doesnt do much for me. Either does water boarding.
I suggest that prior to ending their life, the victim or victims should be allowed to urinate or defecate on the soon to be dead. If you had more than one victim you could auction off the pissing event. I would then also set up the needle or electric switch duty on an auction basis. We could pay for the whole thing and maybe make a profit.
I would also suggest that executions be on Pay for View TV.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #93 on: April 26, 2007, 07:08:46 AM »
Well, we have finally heard from the axis of crazy...too bad you're walking around with the "gay" disease...you guys would be so much happier living in an Islamic country...their system of justice is about as close as you can get to what you believe in. Too bad you would be moved to the top of the line for a beheading, a stoning or just a good ol' fashion hanging because you fooled around with the fellas.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Lethal Injections: Cruel and Unusual?
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2007, 08:02:23 AM »
OK. This thread has moved in and out of attacks both direct and borderline.

It certainly isn't a subject about which there is going to be any resolution.

Now it's gotten further into explosive territory with more "taking of positions."

Before it degenerates any further I am going to acede to the requests to lock the thread.   
Andy Velez

 


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