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Author Topic: There are a lot of miserable people here  (Read 9014 times)

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Offline thunter34

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  • His name is Carl.
Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2006, 03:06:40 PM »
Then please explain to me how.

To me, it seems this:

"While not judging either group and  accepting that there is crossover, it is apparent that the latter group is by nature more, shall we say, sociable and subsequently less apt to fully appreciate the motivations and reasons behind the seriousness and somber nature of the former group." - Iggy.

Is a pretty sweeping generalization on his part....same as he seems so adamant in saying of GSO.

I'm just not buying this whole 'erroneous and hurtful correlation' business.  Go ahead, D:  Sell me on it.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2006, 03:12:07 PM by thunter34 »
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2006, 03:27:39 PM »
What's so funny to me about this whole post is how positive everyone professes to be, but how negative they all sound.

Mr. T. I am not here to try and sell you on anything...I will leave that to others. I find meaning in what Iggles says and if my point of view bothers anyone, so be it.

It is about 65 and sunny here today...I'm shutting down the computer and taking Sam to the park. I wish you were here to join me. ;)

Offline thunter34

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2006, 03:41:32 PM »
No, I'm not negative...I'm boggled.  Your point of view doesn't bother me...I'm baffled and frustrated that I am baffled.   I'm frustrated that I'm still not getting exactly where Iggy is coming from.  I'm trying to understand what I'm missing in this whole exchange, dagnabbit!

I've said time and again on this thread that I GET IT that some people have personal HIV related concerns, and I GET IT that this can prevent them from writing shiny, happy posts.  What I'm not connecting with is the assertion that as part of the more 'sociable' bunch, I am missing out on fully appreciating this aspect of others.  I just keep feeling like this claim and the whole 'erroneous and hurtful correlation' business are being pushed unnecessarily to steer this thread away from its original intent into something it isn't.  To put it bluntly, it seems like Iggy is dead set on (and having some success with) making this thread more about him than keeping it focused on the original questions it was posing.  I stated what I thought those two primary questions were (and I hope GSO will step in and correct me if I am wrong about them).  I think this other 'correlation' business needs to just be started in Iggy's own little thread to let it hash out there.  If I am missing the point, I wish I could figure out precisely how!  I feel stupid for not seeing it...

We do agree on one thing for sure:  It is too damn sunny for me to be sitting here puzzling over this stupid computer!  And I wish I was there with you and Sam, too....at least until the rest of my family shows up for our X-Mas hoedown here in a couple of hours.  Then you can all kiss my ass...I'm eatin' !!
« Last Edit: December 23, 2006, 03:44:14 PM by thunter34 »
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Longislander

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2006, 03:57:07 PM »
T- Who gets to tie the Ho down this year???! ;)
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
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Offline thunter34

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2006, 04:07:40 PM »
Alright, now!   >:(


Just kidding.   ;D
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2006, 04:10:08 PM »
GSO,

I think it is a good point you made and I will leave it at that. Speaking for myself, I really don't know if I suffer from depression so I can not speak on it really. I'm usually pretty upbeat about things. When I do see myself getting in a funk about my health, I try to look at what others have on their plate. Is it wrong to think that way? Seeing what others are going through puts things in perspective for me. I'm usually more down when I think about the people who have passed that meant a lot to me. I'm also down when it comes to having to struggle to pay bills or other things but I try to get over that by saying atleast I paid the bills even though it leaves me broke every month.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
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8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
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Cherish the simple things life has to offer

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Offline Longislander

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2006, 04:27:22 PM »
Quote
Alright, now!   


Just kidding.   



So was I ;)             :-\

Enjoy the family time.
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline fearless

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2006, 04:43:10 PM »
Hey GSO,

Good question.
I took the slow 'suicide' root like Thunter, I just didn't care if I lived, and engaged in all sorts of whacky behaviours. Thunter explained in better, but that was a mirror image of me and a fair few of my mates too. Have you been accessing my brain, Thunter? I really need to get that chip in the back of my head removed.

Interesting, how I've tended to associate with people of the same ilk. All my mates are all at different parts of our journey's, some still bitter and angry, some neg, some poz, most generally happy and optimistic, some still manic and on a fast train to nowhere.

Depression though, is not my ill, anxiety is my nemisis. It's only since my diagnosis that I've become aware of it, but now I realise it's been there all my life and has taken over and stopped my truly living, many a time in my life. Now that I'm aware of it and dealing with it, I'm a much better person for it. Rather than becoming paralyzed worrying about what may or may not be in the future (HIV related or not), I try and focus on the now, and just live in the present. I'd never walked into a gym in my life 3 years ago, now I go three times a week and am fitter than I've ever been. I've signed up for a 1 mile open ocean swim, something I've always dreamt of and put off. I changed my diet from junk food to well balanced and healthy. I do things I've always thought of but couldn't be arsed doing. If noone wants to do it with me, I go alone - football, swimming, snorkelling, holidays. I rarely take drugs, not because I don't like them, but rather I don't feel I need them. The same goes for whoring my arse around sex clubs, and a whole raft of negative behaviours that I thrived on.

So to answer your 2nd question - I guess my mental health has improved since diagnosis as I've become aware of something that has plagued me most of my life.

All the best.

Stephen
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline thunter34

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2006, 04:48:41 PM »
Stephen,

No, I haven't been accessing your brain...though I wouldn't mind accessing the men in your avatar.

Tim
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline fearless

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #59 on: December 23, 2006, 04:54:19 PM »
I'm hoping I already have ;D, and do again ;D
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline Alain

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2006, 04:57:32 PM »
Gso, I was reading this article today from The Canadian Aids Information Exchange.   www.catie.ca

A biological link between HIV and depression.

In general, the difficulties of coping with a long-term illness are enough to challenge anyone's life. In the case of HIV, there are also many other issues, including stigma. This issue can cause social isolation and denies people with HIV/AIDS (PHAs) the everyday support and comfort that they might otherwise get from friends, family and community. This is usually not the case with the disclosure of other health conditions.

In addition to stigma, PHAs face the demands of coping with a complex health condition. Regular visits to doctors, specialists and laboratories are a part of everyday life. Dealing with medical needs—such as drug-related side effects and decisions about starting, switching and interrupting therapy—can be a great source of stress.

This list of possible stressors only begins to outline some of the challenges faced by PHAs. Perhaps it is not surprising that several studies have reported relatively high rates of depression among PHAs. Exactly why this occurs is not clear, but there are several theories. For instance, according to one team of neuroscientists, there may be several possible reasons as follows:

•   Depression may be a problem that occurred prior to HIV infection and may recur after a diagnosis of HIV/AIDS.

•   The stress of living with a life-threatening illness may be overwhelming.

•   Perhaps HIV infection somehow damages the brain, making it more vulnerable to depression.

To try to get a better understanding of this last point, neuroscientists at the University of California at San Diego and genetic researchers at Laval University in Quebec City have been studying the brains of PHAs. Specifically, they have been assessing the impact of HIV on genes in the brain cells of PHAs. According to their analysis, HIV infection stimulates some genes while suppressing the activity of others.

The genes that are affected include those that help make proteins to maintain the structure of brain cells. Other affected genes include those that make compounds—called neurotransmitters—needed by brain cells to signal each other. Lower-than-normal levels of neurotransmitters have been linked to anxiety and depression. The net effect of HIV infection on these genes is to trigger conditions within brain cells that make them more fragile and to lay the ground for the emergence of depression.

Study details
The study team has been conducting analyses of the genes affected by HIV for several years. For the present study, they obtained brain tissue at autopsy from 21 PHAs. Of these 21, five had no obvious HIV-related brain damage. In most cases, these PHAs had died from complications caused by pneumonia or bacterial infections of the blood. Seven of the 21 PHAs had a history of severe or long-lasting depression, while the 14 others did not. Comparing factors such as age, CD4+ cell count and viral load between PHAs with and without depression, researchers could not find any significant differences.

In general, within 12 hours of death, brain tissue as well as samples of the spinal cord were removed and preserved for analysis.

Results
Studying the activity of more than 12,000 genes that are in brain tissue, researchers found that HIV infection turned on some genes and suppressed the activity of others.

When the team compared the effect on genes that were suppressed in brain samples from people with severe or long-lasting depression, it found that the gene responsible for making the compound somatostatin was most significantly affected. Somatostatin is a small molecule produced by the brain and other parts of the body. It has many different functions. Within the brain, somatostatin can help send signals from one neuron to another.

The San Diego team also found that HIV appeared to turn off genes that helped make other compounds used by neurons to send signals to each other—neurotransmitters.

Another finding from this study was that HIV suppressed the activity of genes responsible for maintaining the physical structure of brain cells.

Bringing it all together
Theories that seek to explain the biological basis of severe or long-lasting depression suggest that neurons may either not produce enough neurotransmitters or are unable to get access to a sufficient quantity of these compounds. This situation over time leads to depression.

Increasing neurotransmitter levels within the brain underpins the theory supporting the use of antidepressants. The findings of the San Diego team outline one possibility—that in some PHAs HIV can suppress the activity of genes that are supposed to help make neurotransmitters. With reduced neurotransmitter levels, it is possible that depression is more likely to occur in HIV positive people.

As for weakening the structure of brain cells, this might explain one way that HIV infection leads to the damage and loss of brain tissue.

What's next?
These findings are novel and may pave the way for more research on the biology of HIV-related depression. Bear in mind that although the San Diego study was relatively complex and involved thousands of genes, it had a relatively small number of people, perhaps because of the difficulty of acquiring brain tissue.

Dr. Ian Everall, professor of Psychiatry at the University of California at San Diego, is a key researcher in the present study. For the future, he and his team plan to conduct more research on PHAs, particularly those who suffer from severe or long-lasting depression. The focus of his work would be to first confirm and extend his initial results. Secondly, he hopes to conduct laboratory studies with brain cells and HIV to try to find ways of ending HIV's potential to cause severe depression.

Pharmaceutical companies are trying to develop a new group of antidepressants that work, in part, by simulating the effect of somatostatin on brain cells.

If the findings from the San Diego team are confirmed and extended, they may partly explain the high rates of mental health issues among some PHAs. They may also strengthen the rationale for providing psychosocial support for PHAs and encourage doctors to be vigilant in assessing their patients with HIV/AIDS for depressive illness.

—Sean R. Hosein

REFERENCES:
1. Cruess DG, Evans DL, Repetto MJ, et al. Prevalence, diagnosis and pharmacological treatment of mood disorders in HIV disease. Biological Psychiatry 2003 August 1;54(3):307-16.
2. Masliah E, Roberts ES, Langford D, et al. Patterns of gene dysregulation in the frontal cortex of patients with HIV encephalitis. Journal of Neuroimmunology 2004 Dec;157(1-2):163-75.
3. Everall IP, Salaria S, Atkinson JH, et al. Diminished somatostatin gene expression in individuals with HIV and major depressive disorder. Diminished somatostatin gene expression in individuals with HIV and major depressive disorder. Neurology 2006 Nov 28;67(10):1867-9.
4. Chiang M-C, Dutton RA, Hayashi KM, et al. 3D pattern of brain atrophy in HIV/AIDS visualized using tensor-based morphometry. NeuroImage 2007 Jan 1;34(1):44-60.
5. Thompson PM, Dutton RA, Hayashi KM, et al. Thinning of the cerebral cortex visualized in HIV/AIDS reflects CD4+ T lymphocyte decline. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA 2005 Oct 25;102(43):15647-52.
6. Jones C and Power C. Regulation of neural cell survival by HIV-1 infection. Neurobiology of Disease 2006 Jan;21(1):1-17.
7. Yeung H, Krentz HB, Gill MJ and Power C. Neuropsychiatric disorders in HIV infection: impact of diagnosis on economic costs of care. AIDS 2006 Oct 24;20(16):2005-9.
8. Nath A and Sacktor N. Influence of highly active antiretroviral therapy on persistence of HIV in the central nervous system. Current Opinion in Neurology 2006 Aug;19(4):358-61.

Created on: 12/22/2006

Offline thunter34

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2006, 05:10:33 PM »
Wow.  Now I'm really bummed out.



(kidding)


Thanks, COW, for providing such an insightful post for this thread.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #62 on: December 23, 2006, 05:40:21 PM »
Thanks Cowandalehouse. That is good info!

Offline bear60

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2006, 06:06:12 PM »
Quote: Increasing neurotransmitter levels within the brain underpins the theory supporting the use of antidepressants.
Oh yea....anti depressants help a lot.  If one is clinically depressed there is no alternative. 
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline SASA39

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2007, 11:39:21 AM »
Maybe a new thread like a :
Connection beetwen Sustiva (HIV meds) , depression ,  suicide thoughts , AIDS dementia complex , and induced mood.
Or it is all the same basket ?
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
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Offline Buckmark

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2007, 01:25:27 PM »
But there are so many people on here who just appear angry and miserable for no good reason.

I think folks who are "miserable" and experiencing depression are more likely to post here
looking for help.  It might look very different if all the "happy" folks posted here with the
same regularity, but not a lot of folks post just to say "I'm feeling happy today."
Maybe that should happen more often.  Fundamentally, though, people come here
looking for help with problems

Also, people may appear miserable for no good reason.  But that doesn't necessarily
mean there isn't a good reason.  Often, when one is depressed, determining the real
reason can be very difficult.  For many, it may have nothing to do with HIV.  For others,
I think it does.  I think the stress of living with a chronic disease can certainly take its
toll on people's mental well-being in many ways.

Cow's posting is particularly interesting, as I would not have anticipated a physiological
connection between HIV and depression.

Regards,

Henry

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline antibody

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2007, 03:49:46 PM »
the entire human race is miserable, emotional, egotistical, megalomaniac, fragile fucked up beings not just people with HIV.
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Offline milker

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2007, 03:57:39 PM »
Yeah I felt guilty about being too happy on here. I've cut back on the open giggling. I just hope that people won't come back to me saying "aHA! Now you're not laughing anymore" and not help me when I have a difficult time.

Milker.
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Offline antibody

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2007, 04:50:29 PM »
i just feel grateful things could always be worse. isn't that the reason we watch springer and the real world and all those reality tv shows? so we can watch and feel better about our lives. like i love new york. this girl is a shank. i watch in disgust and feel i'm making the right choices in my life.
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Offline Boo Radley

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2007, 04:52:00 PM »
miserable, emotional, egotistical, megalomaniac, fragile fucked up

How did you know what the Tarot reader told me (among other things)??

My psychiatrist uses more clinical terms but yours are easily understood by more people.  No one asks for depression and no one wills it or nurtures it or thrives on it.  It happens.  Like some types of high blood pressure physical depression is caused by biochemical anomalies which can sometimes be adjusted with manufactured biochemicals, reducing the amount and severity of one's depression (or other mental illness but depression seems most common).

I know firsthand bottled neurotransmitters alter my body's output and use of naturally secreted biochemicals, and the right med or combination eliminates or greatly mitigates the subjective symptoms I experience.  I posted the whole boring story recently, I think, so won't repeat it for another few weeks or months until I forget again.  A casual perusal of posts made by me shows a shocking rate of redundancy not seen here in a long time. 
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





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Offline antibody

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2007, 05:04:06 PM »
i meant that in the best possible way of course.
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Offline dgr20002

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2007, 10:35:44 PM »
While I am reading this my female dog is trying to hump my leg. LOL  Aside from that I've had a wonderful week.

Me in DC

Offline milker

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Re: There are a lot of miserable people here
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2007, 11:05:34 PM »
While I am reading this my female dog is trying to hump my leg. LOL  Aside from that I've had a wonderful week.

Me in DC
You have a trans dog?

Milker (who wonders if this qualifies as a hijack)
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

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