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Author Topic: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?  (Read 7113 times)

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Offline incognito

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When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« on: April 16, 2007, 07:00:36 AM »
having a hard time with this one.   open to finding mr right, but in the meantime would enjoy mr right now.
often when meeting someone for a casual encounter i don't disclose my hiv exposure if we don't have anal sex.  problem comes when the casual encounter turns into dating with potential for relationship. the partner could feel that i withheld important information.  i feel that i shared what was appropriate given the level of our contact and when that changes it creates a new situation where disclosure is then appropriate.  i also belive that if they are living in so much fear of hiv that they are unwilling to have safe contact it is their responsiblity to ask before any activity
     i wonder how many of the sexual encounters where it was meaningful for both of us wouldn't have happened if i'd told them i'd been exposed to the virus.  too many people can't distinguish between an hiv+ test and high viral load or symptomatic AIDS diagnosis.  they operate from fear and refuse any intimacy, even safe contact. 
   so i'm curious.  when do you disclose?  on the phone when making a date to get together?
on the second or third date when things seem to be going somewhere?
    i do disclose any time the encounter goes toward anal sex with me as the top regardless of when that happens.
    would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.
If you recognize me please honor my need to be anonymous here to interact on a personal level.

Offline Central79

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2007, 07:19:34 AM »
You're right it is tough. When I was single I wasn't able to have any sexual contact with anybody before disclosing. I just couldn't do it, regardless of whether it was a one-night thing or something with more potential.

I think it's within people's right to not have sex with you if they are afraid of your status. If they're doing this because they're badly educated, then that's a shame, but it's the way it is. Positive people have to deal with all kinds of prejudice!

I found that I disclosed on my internet profile (with a pic posted with my head blurred out) and that worked very well for casual hook ups. With guys I'd meet out and about I'd go on a date, and if I liked them I'd disclose afterwards. If not, I wouldn't see the guy again and wouldn't disclose. That worked fine as well. I stopped pulling guys from bars and clubs because I didn't want to have to disclose on the spur of the moment and get rejected. So it limited me pretty badly.

At the end of the day, you have to strike a balance you feel comfortable with. I know lots of guys who thought I was foolishly up-front about my status, but I feel that I've lost enough to HIV without it making me less honest and up front than I was before.

M.
Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Offline Buckmark

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2007, 07:57:49 AM »
i feel that i shared what was appropriate given the level of our contact and when that changes it creates a new situation where disclosure is then appropriate.

This is a tough question.  Trying thinking about it this way:  instead of sharing what
information you feel is appropriate at the time, share what you think the other person
you are with would feel is appropriate.

From that perspective, I think most people would want to know before you
engage in oral sex.  It's not so much a matter of the risk of the activity, but
establishing a level of intimacy and trust, which can be much more difficult if
you disclose after the fact. 

Personally, I prefer to disclose if the situation goes any further than making out,
and preferably beforehand on a date.  If I feel comfortable enough to make out,
then I've probably already felt comfortable enough to disclose.

Quote
i also belive that if they are living in so much fear of hiv that they are unwilling to have safe contact it is their responsiblity to ask before any activity

I also agree that people first and foremost need to be responsible for their own
sexual health.  That said, you still shouldn't be terribly surprised if you get a negative
response if you disclose even after low-risk activity.

Quote
i wonder how many of the sexual encounters where it was meaningful for both of us wouldn't have happened if i'd told them i'd been exposed to the virus. 

How meaningful can it be if the person bolts after you disclose?

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline Bucko

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2007, 03:18:37 PM »
Back when I cruised for pick-ups in bars, I generally disclosed early on, in the qualifying phase. On the rare occasions I didn't, I always felt a twinge of guilt later (and, as you suggested, limited the encounter to oral/JO).

But I've been qualifying tricks since my early twenties (1980-85) because sexually speaking I can get pretty complicated and rarely hooked up based strictly on appearance. I've always considered fucking an interesting mind more intriguing than merely fucking a pretty ass. The jackpot comes when you get both.

Nowadays, 99% of my hookups come from the on-line service Manhunt.net. My profile does all my qualifying for me, and a brief chat easily establishes any intelligence/personality questions.

Brent
(Who serosorts exclusively)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline Coffeechick88

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2007, 03:34:54 PM »
Even though I am of the opinion that every person is responsible for protecting themselves regardless of disclosure, I still disclose before I have sexual contact to give them informed consent.  Those who I go out with, but there is no connection don't get told since otherwise it isn't their business.  Some people will have trouble with the notion no matter if a condom is used or how low risk--mostly because they are uneducated.  I have gotten very few rejections, but I look at it this way:  if my HIV is too much of  a problem and they will freak out even if it is low risk or a condom is used, then they aren't worth my time regardless.  It separates the men from the boys.  I am not sure what I'd do about one night stand--those aren't my thing, and my casual encounters tend to come from exes who already know my status anyhow.  I suppose a one night stand I would be more lenient, but I'd definitely still use a condom.  I also think this covers my butt legally--my state is one of those where you can be charged with a felony if you don't disclose your status regardless of intent to infect and even if you use a condom.  Now even though not many of those cases are pursued or even successful, I still don't need that hassle.  I also remember an unprotected sexual encounter I had before I knew I was infected and it took me a long time to get over the guilt--I have depression and anxiety anyhow, but I obsessed over whether I infected that guy or not a long time, so even if I didn't disclose I'd use the condom.
Lucas James is here
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Offline Moffie65

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2007, 05:02:10 PM »
I would like to take just a bit of a different approach.

One of the things I often relate here is that one of the ways we can become victorious over this virus, is to "Claim It!" in all of its intricacies and disturbing qualities.

It has been my experience that when we meet others that in fact might turn into a more complex and intimate relationship, (and I include one night stands here) it is vitally important for our own comfort and self respect, that we disclose.  This is also important for the prospective person we are going to become intimate with, because if they in fact have a brain that is operational, they will find this control and comfort with HIV in us empowering.  If they don't, run for the nearest exit, because they simply are not worth the effort or time. 

You see what I am leading to here is not only an acceptance of our own virus and destiny, but an embrace of that fact also.  There is a vast difference between acceptance and embracing, and the obvious is power.  When we embrace this virus, we claim power over our own bodies minds and spirits.  It is only then that the sanity of full disclosure also brings us peace and a control of our bodies that will also protect us in  the future. 

Respecting ourselves after learning that we are HIV+ is a huge step, and one that many of us Long Term Survivors, (LTS) find a constant struggle, but overall, we must continue to sustain ourselves to keep us in balance with what is a certain reality in our lives, and embracing this virus is very much a part of control, self empowerment, and balance. 

I hope this isn't so far off that it sounds crazy but then the author is known to have his own times of crazy. 

Love,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

jms79

  • Guest
Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2007, 08:17:57 PM »
having a hard time with this one.   open to finding mr right, but in the meantime would enjoy mr right now.
often when meeting someone for a casual encounter i don't disclose my hiv exposure if we don't have anal sex.  problem comes when the casual encounter turns into dating with potential for relationship. the partner could feel that i withheld important information.  i feel that i shared what was appropriate given the level of our contact and when that changes it creates a new situation where disclosure is then appropriate.  i also belive that if they are living in so much fear of hiv that they are unwilling to have safe contact it is their responsiblity to ask before any activity
     i wonder how many of the sexual encounters where it was meaningful for both of us wouldn't have happened if i'd told them i'd been exposed to the virus.  too many people can't distinguish between an hiv+ test and high viral load or symptomatic AIDS diagnosis.  they operate from fear and refuse any intimacy, even safe contact. 
   so i'm curious.  when do you disclose?  on the phone when making a date to get together?
on the second or third date when things seem to be going somewhere?
    i do disclose any time the encounter goes toward anal sex with me as the top regardless of when that happens.
    would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.


wow, i really cannot believe this post, almost.  it really makes me mad.  i mean, there are so many things that...wow.   disclosure when involved with sex is easy, you tell your partner BEFORE any sex.  Oral sex is sex, and HIV can be contracted from oral sex.  ( http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa19.htm )

how can you not have the compassion to disclose, and when you are positive?  that's beyond me man.  you must realize that it is not right, otherwise you wouldn't state the problem with a casual encounter turning more serious, from nondisclosure.  both parties should be responsible for questioning the status.  however, we with HIV, have the utmost responsibility for letting our partner know.  and the big difference between 'us and them' is that there are laws in over 1/2 of our states about disclosure regarding positive people, and (here's the clincher) it's just your moral obligation!  and if someone just doesn't want to have anything to do with you because of that, then thats what we live with.  become stronger, become selective, something, but foremost develop some love and compassion for yourself and especially others, these are just some of the nonchalant attitudes that can cause setbacks in overcoming the stigma associated with our disease.  grow up!  >:(

Offline puertorico2006

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2007, 09:50:30 PM »
a little judgemental are we?
Infected Probably: may 2005
Diagnosed: 11/2006

11/28/2006 CD4:309 / VL: 1907 No meds yet
12/27/2006 CD4:339/  VL:1649 No meds yet
  4/28/2007 CD4:550/  VL:1800 No meds :-)

Offline puertorico2006

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2007, 09:59:20 PM »
I personally so far have disclosed before any encounter (oral or anal) but it is difficult to do especially when both parties are drunk and met 30 minutes ago in the club. So far i have not had any negative rejection and i think it is mostly do to the fact people do appreciate honesty (or they are so horny they dont care...or are so drunk and dont mind either).....I really dont see the need to disclose when performing oral sex (but thats just my opinion)...and when recieving oral sex i still dont see the need but i disclose anyways (again just my opinion)...

Disclosing is a bitch but it must be done
Infected Probably: may 2005
Diagnosed: 11/2006

11/28/2006 CD4:309 / VL: 1907 No meds yet
12/27/2006 CD4:339/  VL:1649 No meds yet
  4/28/2007 CD4:550/  VL:1800 No meds :-)

Offline Jake72

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2007, 10:19:17 PM »
I agree that we do need to disclose our status before sexual relationships.  HOWEVER, we should also take care.  Let's say we do our 'moral duty' and disclose to a potential partner.  He/she says 'no problem', and we do our thing.
A week (month, year, whatever), he/she could come back and attempt to blackmail us, saying that if we don't do this or that, he/she could tell the authorities that we had sex with him/her without disclosing the fact.  What options would we have?  Normally disclosure is not done using a legally recognized affidavit, so it'd essentially be our word as pozzies against the other person's word.  And the way the courts have been with regard to what poz folk are obligated to do, I wouldn't expect a whole lot of sympathy for us.

A paranoid thought?  Maybe.  But never underestimate the nastiness of some people...

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2007, 10:25:07 PM »
to quote jms:
Quote
clearly he is very ignorant and his knowledge of HIV/AIDS is extremely limited to none.
and from some of your commens, I would apply the same verbage to you.

Personally, I find the best time to disclose is after unprotected sex.  The dramatic effect is exponential.

if you want credibility, try not to quote the anti-sex, anti-gay cdc.  The webpage you linked is utter shiat.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2007, 10:41:10 PM by DingoBoi »

Offline Iggy

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2007, 10:50:28 PM »
Quote
A paranoid thought?  Maybe.  But never underestimate the nastiness of some people...

It is a hard lesson to accept, isn't it?  I don't think you are paranoid at all and I'm glad you said this.

I had been telling people I was poz as soon as a discussion moved towards the old your place or mine portion of the conversation.  I felt so righteous about my honesty and ability to own my disease.  The result?  Sometimes it was an issue though many times it was not.

The worst times though were when they pretended it wasn't an issue and made some poor excuse to pretend that they had a sudden change of plans.  I always felt a little mad about that - not the rejection - but the fake pretend that it is not a rejection...if I can honest about my status why can't they be honest that they are scared of it.

So with being honest you bring yourself up for a lot more possibilities of rejection...and that can wear you down after a while...sometimes after one too many or one that happens at a particularly time when you are feeling most vulnerable - you don't even want to try anymore. 

However to really comment on your point Jake and to reply to the original author of this thread  - it has once happened to me where I told someone I was poz, and he said he was cool about until he did the 11th hour fake out and had a sudden change of plans.  Then one night I was out at a bar and saw the guy with his buddies.  I walked past him on my way to the bathroom and I heard - "yeah he's the poz one," and a bunch of people just looked at me.

I''m sure many will have all kinds of great ideas of what I should have said or how I should have made it a moment in my favor.  I'm sure there is quite many of you who would have savored such a moment to show off just how incredibly strong you are - I say this as I was always sure that I would know the perfect verbal bitch slap to say to anyone who did such a thing to me. 

But you know what? 

Life doesn't always come that well scripted, and sometimes we just lower our heads and find ourselves getting the hell out of a place as soon as possible because we are that humilated both at someone elses actions and our inability to be super human in having inpenetrable feelings and emotions.

So based off of all of the above you may ask when I now suggest someone tell their potential sex partner that they are poz?  Surprisingly, my answer is still the same - before it ever moves to removing of clothes.  Yeah - I definitely risk rejection and yeah I definitely risk another episode like the one I described, but in some small way  me staying honest about my status is my bitch slap back at the guy who humiliated me in the bar. 

I won't say I still have my pride, but I definitely am fighting to defend my self worth and I'm not going to give up that fight easily (even when I lose the occasional battle.)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2007, 10:55:43 PM by Iggy »

Offline milker

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2007, 11:04:52 PM »
wow.   disclosure when involved with sex is easy, you tell your partner BEFORE any sex.  Oral sex is sex, and HIV can be contracted from oral sex.  ( http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa19.htm )

jms, read this post (warning it's 3 pages long) http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10999.0 It's not as easy as you think.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline tsw923

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2007, 11:54:27 PM »
I know its difficult, but I say that disclosure needs to happen before clothing comes off.  I tend not to participate in one-night stands so any guy I'm ready to get in bed with is someone that I want to have a lasting, trusting relationship with.  I cannot expect him to trust me if I don't give him all the facts.  It does mean that I have to take the risk of being rejected, but at least I gave him the choice. 

Ty
Help find a cure for leukemia, lymphoma, and other blood-related cancers by sponsoring me as I walk a 1/2 marathon as a part of the Maryland chapter of Team in Training.  To find out more and to donate, please click on the following site:  http://www.active.com/donate/tntmd/tswtntmd

jms79

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2007, 12:20:35 AM »
a little judgemental are we?

not so much, not trying to just make anyone angry at me, i'm just expressing a strong opinion, people need to be a little more responsible than that.  the guy is knowingly putting people at risk.  when your positive, its not all about you and your sex life anymore, we just have new responsibilities that need to be taken seriously man.  i can speak for only for myself and say that i've learned a lesson about responsibility...the hard way, and then some.  and its heartbreaking to see such selfishness.

jms, read this post (warning it's 3 pages long) http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10999.0 It's not as easy as you think.

Milker.

again, i'm speaking on my own terms.  when it comes to just sex, i'm very open about my status.  my problem is...and i was hoping this would have been the main point of these discussions...not knowing how/when to disclose when you want the possibility of things to become serious (when they are neg or you just dont know yet).  i guess there are just so many different scenarios, it'd be hard to grasp until you go for it a few times.

to quote jms:and from some of your commens, I would apply the same verbage to you.

Personally, I find the best time to disclose is after unprotected sex.  The dramatic effect is exponential.

if you want credibility, try not to quote the anti-sex, anti-gay cdc.  The webpage you linked is utter shiat.

ur just trying to hurt, but thats ok.  i havent done anything to provoke such a comment.  and this quote you took of mine was from a completely different area on this website  ( http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=9582.0  - clearly someone trying to only stir things up).  i also would definitely like to see some support on how the Center for Disease Control and Prevention is anti-sex, oh and anti-gay too.


ANYHOW, i clearly have hit a nerve for some (wtf?).....i hope most are looking at the original posters comments/questions rather than just my view and express your own views rather than make snide comments and attacks.  then respect the ideas and practices you may or may not be in agreement with or have in common   ;)

Offline milker

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2007, 12:39:55 AM »
ANYHOW, i clearly have hit a nerve for some (wtf?)
Yes you did. When you say it's easy to disclose then I want to know your secret.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline puertorico2006

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2007, 12:52:57 AM »
Whether the CDC is anti-gay, anti-sex I am not sure of that but from how i read it it does EXAGERATE the risks. It does not mentione that HIV is difficult to transmit via oral route, and that saliva does have some antiviral properties. It does say "a few cases" though which if you think of how many people have been infected by HIV the number is not that significant (im sure for the .01% it is personally significant to them though i will not argue that)......

and jms you are intitled to have your strong opinion just as all of us....but when expressing opinions about posts while "angry" you need to realize that he poster posted an issue that hes dealing with and is trying to figure  the right way to deal with it. Getting angry at someone asking for help makes them not want to post problems/issues in the future....We all have different "morals" and ideas about what is "responsible" and we all make mistakes (we are human) ....so post experiences and opinions but dont have to get hostile when someone just wants advice (not unconstructive criticism)...but again thats just my opinon  :-* :-*

to the original poster....I still disclose though either way....I havent gotten rejected yet but i usually tell them when i have them naked and im naked also (before any dangerous sexual contact)...i say "we cant have sex" they say "why?" then i say "you dont want to know!" (you know that theyre going to ask)...thenn you say "im hiv positive"...but your both naked, horny, and its hard to say NO when you have sex on the brain ...and of course you know that the risk of protected sex is minimal so you dont feel bad about taking advantage of the skewed state of mind :-D lol....

if you think your going to date the person though its probably best to disclose before they have the ability to hurt you if they do reject you...

-josh
(who likes sharing his opinion  ;D)
Infected Probably: may 2005
Diagnosed: 11/2006

11/28/2006 CD4:309 / VL: 1907 No meds yet
12/27/2006 CD4:339/  VL:1649 No meds yet
  4/28/2007 CD4:550/  VL:1800 No meds :-)

jms79

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2007, 01:28:12 AM »
well the CDC is designed to give the facts, not express their own judgement.  so i dont see how things have really been exaggerated.  it does say a few cases, but regardless of transmission rate, do you really think its right to not give someone the choice to take that risk? 

and i'm sorry, i wasnt aware i should hold my anger at someone that could potentially change(d) someones life in a very negative way forever.  oops, my bad.   and dont tell me you are going to negotiate morality and responsibility in this case?  i doubt you would get anywhere with that.  i also doubt someone will not post because of others feelings about something like this.  you're clearly playing devils advocate, so instead of taking this over w/ argument, feel free to IM me  ;)


milker....as far as ease of disclosure.  before you take your clothes off...or whatever.  you tell the person you have hiv, in whichever coy way you want.  sometimes charm helps.  but instead of specifics, the jist is to do it before the underwear would come off :)   embarrassing situations in the future could happen, which would suck.   in my experience, people are more mature than to spill your personal business in public, but i'm sure there will be a few.  ::)

Offline puertorico2006

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2007, 01:47:39 AM »
  in my experience, people are more mature than to spill your personal business in public, but i'm sure there will be a few.  ::)

you obviously dont live where i do...here people LOVE to spill your personal business to the public....maybe they wont spill it in your face but you hear the whispers and EVERYONE knows....luckily i dont care but people gossip (it seems to be part of nature)

and dont tell me you are going to negotiate morality and responsibility in this case?
of course im not going to negotiate morality because i wouldnt get very far im just saying people make mistakes we are human
Infected Probably: may 2005
Diagnosed: 11/2006

11/28/2006 CD4:309 / VL: 1907 No meds yet
12/27/2006 CD4:339/  VL:1649 No meds yet
  4/28/2007 CD4:550/  VL:1800 No meds :-)

Offline RapidRod

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2007, 02:10:18 AM »
jms, you apparently don't know anything about the CDC and you apparently have never called their hotline. Any STD clinic will give out better information than the CDC.

jms79

  • Guest
Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2007, 02:41:39 AM »
jms, you apparently don't know anything about the CDC and you apparently have never called their hotline. Any STD clinic will give out better information than the CDC.

ok?  just curious what this has to do with anything?  you're passive aggressively attacking cdc and me, for?  lol
you'll have to be more clear as to what you're referring to...

Offline carousel

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2007, 04:32:53 AM »
I have told most people about my diagnosis, but we are talking about a very limited number here. 

I did have a threesome that I did not disclose to.  I actually forgot to raise it, but it had been a long night and we were safe. 

And there are a couple of times in a sauna and in a club that I didn't tell.

I would prefer to tell people.  I would rather get there reaction before, rather than in some hissy fit they might have after.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2007, 05:30:53 AM »
well the CDC is designed to give the facts, not express their own judgement. 

I was just replying to your statement. It wasn't an attack on you, unless you think what I said, was an attack of your knowledge of the CDC and their outdated guidelines and outdated facts.  ;)


Offline Central79

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2007, 05:38:01 AM »
I don't know. I still hate the guy who infected me, although we both protected me as best as I knew how at the time.  If he knew, then I feel he should have disclosed. I'd hate to have that kind of karma following me around. I definitely think you loose a part of yourself if you don't disclose.

Then again, I'm in the process of trying to let that go. Part of me does this by convincing myself he didn't know, which is statistically quite probable. Part of it is by accepting the randomness of things.

But no matter how far I take these things I'm still left with a strong belief that he should've told me. I ran into a guy on gaydar who I'd had sex with a few months prior (when I was negative), who then told me he was HIV+ when I told him online. I remember I'd sat with him and we'd talked for a long time before having sex. I'd told him about my dreams to be a surgeon, and he still didn't tell me. Although I wasn't infected by this guy - I still think he's at worst immoral and at best dickless.

On my good days I can see him and others like him as scared of rejection, or being humanly fallible in some other way. It's a shame I can't extend that forgiveness to myself just now.
Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Offline david25luvit

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2007, 06:48:30 AM »
Personally I can't imagine being sexually active with someone who didn't already KNOW.....
but that's me..................I don't see disclosure as a choice but rather as a responsibility
with the thought that everyone should be made aware of the risk that comes with having
sex with me( an HIV+ person) before we become intimate....
Ideally I'd prefer to have sex with others who are positive but in the past I have had sex with
guys who weren't but they knew upfront I WAS

For those of us who suffer from co-infections  I'm HIV/HCV
...I think we should disclose both and I do.
but that's my opinion...my two cents worth.
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline Moffie65

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2007, 08:59:59 AM »
................  open to finding mr right, but in the meantime would enjoy mr right now...........................often when meeting someone for a casual encounter i don't disclose my hiv exposure if we don't have anal sex.  problem comes when the casual encounter turns into dating with potential for relationship.

I hope you don't mind me coming in twice on this thread, but something came to me last night while I was trying to get to sleep. 

Just how horrible it would be if you met "Mr. Right" and treated the event as meeting "Mr. Right Now", and didn't disclose up front and honestly?  Could you be sending Mr. Right off into the sunset with the fact that you were not honest and he decided he liked you a lot, but wasn't a bit impressed with your dishonesty in taking advantage of him without disclosure?

Hmmmmmmmmm   That certainly paints a picture of a different color, doesn't it?  I think still that with all the talk you inspired in this thread, the conclusion still stands that if we are going to be open to finding a relationship with someone, EVERYONE we have close contact with must know all the facts, or else the foundation of the relationship in the future is going to be in doubt.

Just my second thoughts on this intriguing subject.

Love,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

jms79

  • Guest
Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2007, 11:06:55 AM »
I was just replying to your statement. It wasn't an attack on you, unless you think what I said, was an attack of your knowledge of the CDC and their outdated guidelines and outdated facts.  ;)



there are certain things that don't need updated all of the time.  the fact remains that there is possible risk of contracting hiv through oral sex.  whatever you're specifically referring to on the CDC, if anything, is not what i was referring to in the earlier post.  also, most, if not all, reputable clinics get much of their information through the cdc or their state department of health.   ;)

Offline dixieman

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2007, 04:37:21 PM »
Well you could tell someone... just like a big suprise b-day yell... I'm cuming oh and I've got hiv.... lol or you could let someone know you practice safe sex.. and you think everyone is a possible carrier and its best to take precautions as if both parities involved maybe hiv... then get the groove on...lol or just take care of your own buisness..

Offline Blixer

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2007, 04:53:48 PM »
This has been an interesting, although somewhat divergent thread.  I think the original question is very applicable.  Some obviously see it as not a major issue at all.  You just do it!  Others seem to say that maybe it isn't really necessary.  There were some very good points on all sides and I'd say that it seems that where someone is has been a result of some processing of life experience, feelings of responsibility, and maybe ethics.  Maybe it has something to do with how long you have been positive or how well you have handled being positive too. 

At any rate, I've waited a while to jump in but I think the original question is very appropriate, particularly for some of us that are fairly new here.  Even if aren't going to jump in bed with someone, when is it appropriate to disclose.  I know that we need to be comfortable with where we are, but there is still a lot of prejudice out there and I can see many cases where disclosure is probably on a "need to know" basis and not just a general announcement.

This all came home to me big time this past weekend. I had become somewhat of a hermit since my diagnosis and pretty much just stayed in.  I tried a bit of dating but just couldn't get to the point of saying "oh, by the way, I'm positive."  For me, I had my self-esteem destroyed in a previous relationship and I just haven't been to the point where I felt I could handle the potential rejection of finding someone I was interested in and having them walk away when they found out I was positive.  So I just didn't put myself in a situation where I had to.  This past weekend I decided to take a plunge and go out with a group of 8 other individuals.  I will admit that I was very uncomfortable.  I sat there at dinner thinking, "I have this secret."  And then there was the "what if someone shows an interest in me? At what point do I say--oh, I'm poz?"  I know I was probably overreaction or over analyzing, but it was a real issue for me.  And one of the guys did show an interest.  I just handled it by simply not responding.  Once again, locking others out was the easiest approach.

Yes, I do want to find someone to date. I would love to find someone to share my life with. I would love to find someone to be intimate with.  But so far I"m not there yet and the disclosure issue has become bigger than life for me.  I'm working on it, but still a ways away from it I think.

So it was very interesting that this thread came to the front and it has been eye opening to read some of the discussions here.  I'm not sure we are any closer to an understanding or a solution than ever.   Maybe for some of us there isn't a real solution.
David
Diagnosed 1/9/06
8/27/2007 CD4 598, 29%, VL 58 (72 wks)
11/19/2007 CD4 609, 30%, VL < 50 (84 wks)
2/11/2008 CD4 439, 27%, VL <50 (96 wks)
5/5/2008 CD4 535, 28%, VL <50 (108 wks)
10/20/2008 CD4 680, 28%, VL <50 (132 wks)
Changed to Atripla in 2012
1/14/2013 CD4 855, 35%, VL <40

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2007, 10:06:08 PM »
Hey Blixer,

I think you've been quite articulate and expressed your views well.  I can relate to most all of it.   Certainly the social settings are awkward for anyone.

I get you totally!

However, I don't get those who seem to lack all sense of ethics and moral character, most of which proclaim to be the God fiering types who feel that it's OK to put someone else at risk cause......Hey, if they don't protect themselves they're askin for it right?   BULLSHIT!   I will NEVER agree with that philosphy.  I'm not talking about kissing or the petty crap.  I'm talking about the bastards that go around lying and spreading this virus so they can get their rocks off.   

I don't care which way you slice this there is NO justification for intentionally infecting someone else because you're "lonely" or "horny".   That's CRAP!

If one is incapable of being honest and open with someone then they really don't deserve to be in a relationship in my opinion.   I mean, come on, if you REALLY LOVE someone would you put them at risk?

Wesley
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2007, 10:21:06 PM »
how sad for you wesley that you just don't understand...

Offline milker

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2007, 10:24:57 PM »
I wouldn't take Dingo's harsh one liner way but I totally agree with him.

Milker (who just made a one-liner).
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline pozinbama

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2007, 10:27:06 PM »
I don't get those who seem to lack all sense of ethics and moral character

Just because somebody has different ethics or morals than you doesn't mean they lack them.


Steven
(who's trying to figure out why so many people end their posts by referring to themselves in the 3rd person)

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2007, 10:29:56 PM »
LOL, I'm not talking about different values or ethics.  I'm talking about a complete lack of em!

And, it's clear why some are hiding their faces and names.  If I had such a despicable attitude I would as well!
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline pozinbama

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2007, 10:34:36 PM »
LOL, I'm not talking about different values or ethics.  I'm talking about a complete lack of em!

And, it's clear why some are hiding their faces and names.  If I had such a despicable attitude I would as well!

repeat:

Just because somebody has different ethics or morals than you doesn't mean they lack them.



Steven
(who's not hiding his face)

Offline AustinWesley

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2007, 10:45:34 PM »
Well Steven,

Now that you've chimed in, what are your views on the topic at hand?   I hadn't noticed you before now, but I'm curious to hear how you justify your "friends" comments?

W
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

Offline dtwpuck

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  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2007, 12:23:26 AM »

A couple thoughts:

1.  your partners have a right to know... (see henry's response)
2.  it's illegal.  even with oral sex, non-disclosure is illegal
3   rejection because you're positive is a whole lot better than a reputation for non-disclosure.  word gets around.
4.  rejection because you're positive isn't that bad.  so what if a trick says no.  they have just as much of a right to protect themselves as you used to.  if your self esteem is centered around some random guy's response to your hiv status in regards to whether or not you get to trick with him... then you really do have other more pressing issues to deal with.
5.  yes, it's hard.  i don't generally pick guys up in bars for that reason.  i deal with it online.  (see bucko's response)  it's easier to get laid online anyway, especially on a wednesday morning at 1 am.
6.  and lastly... poz guys are simply more fun to play with.  i reject guys simply because they are negative..  no, i don't want to fuck you if i have to use a condom.. thanks, but i'm not that desparate.


Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

jms79

  • Guest
Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2007, 01:58:59 AM »
this is the first forum i've been active in, and maybe going to be the last...i've noticed something in these forums.  they are incredibly argumentative (with myself being thrusted right in).  most of the arguments are using the 'devils advocate' stance. at least, i sincerely hope people are not going to defend the knowing spread of this disease.  but it seems that very defense is what goes on.  to them: karma can definitely suck, and you have a lot of that coming to you.  in my opinion you deserve to be banished from society - yeah i said that, and i'm sure that won't affect your future posts (by reviewing your past ones) so dont bother mentioning that.

i cannot watch such behavior, it does nothing for our problem.  absolutely nothing for the stigma.  if these thoughts were to be leaked into the mainstream, what kind of backlash do you think society would give?  we are beyond fortunate to be able to
live with this disease, we are given prolonged life, and some of you are taking that honor and treating it with the worst form of disrespect. 

I THINK if you are having such a big deal about disclosure, then you just aren't ready to be having sex as someone with HIV yet.  freakin control yourself, don't put yourself into bad situations, or ones that might cause you to be confronted with disclosure in an uncomfortable way, and if you cannot then maybe a message board that is saturated with very miserable gay "men", who seem to just want to tear others down to their own small level of humanity, will not do you any good, go see a counselor or psychiatist.  you probably have a lot of other underlying issues to grasp.

oh and again grow up, take responsibility, and HAVE SOME FUCKING COMPASSION
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 02:09:14 AM by jms79 »

Offline GoodMatchHawaiiRetreat

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Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2007, 03:42:30 AM »
Questions for JMS79.  1. How long have you been HIV+?  2. When do you disclose?

There have been 2 (TWO) recorded cases of HIV transmission through oral sex.  One is a personal friend of mine who works in HIV education.  He was neg his lover/partner was poz.  He gave oral sex to his partner knowing that his partner was poz and that he had open cuts in his own mouth.  Given his personal interest and connections in the HIV field he learned of one other recorded case.

It is the CDC job to try to control the spread of HIV. Hence the recommendation of abstinence immediatley before ANY other recommendation. 

Ultimately it comes down to personal responsibility.  Each persons personal health is their own responsibility.
One can not and should not expect laws, or others to assume that responsibility for them.
If I were negative I would assume the responsibility of educating myself about HIV as much as possible and take the responsibility of asking a partners HIV status at whatever point felt most appropriate to me.
    I understand that in Australia they have major promotions and education regarding having "the disucssion" and encouraging HIV neg people to take the responsibility for themselves by asking potential partners.
I also understand that it has been highly effective.  Would love to see more of the "abstainence" education dollars be spent on "having the discussion" and "taking personal responsibility" education.
   Before you flame me.... I am not saying that as poz people we don't have an ethical responsibility for appropriate disclosure.  I am saying that one can not rely on laws or others for our well being, it is our personal responsbility.

Online edfu

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"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Central79

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  • Posts: 527
Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2007, 05:59:39 AM »
I think the arguement that "people should be responsible for their own sexual health" is fine, but flawed on its own. It cannot stop there. I am not an inanimate object, and I have the knowledge to make the encounter safer for both of us - if I disclosed the guy might run off, or he might say "actually my gums were bleeding this morning, so we'll fuck but I won't suck". I've experienced this, and think it's fine.

By placing myself as a passive cock or hole to fuck and be fucked w/o disclosure denies who I am - a person who can think and act in the world in my own and others best interests. I'm not prepared to let HIV take that away from me. A person should not catch HIV from me because they are depressed and maybe aren't that aware of their body, or have had root canal and just not made the connection. Sex is messy, and the chance is always there: it's down to both parties to minimise it.
Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Offline AustinWesley

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    • HIV Discussion Group on Myspace!
Re: When to disclose hiv to someone you are sexual with?
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2007, 02:12:41 PM »
this is the first forum i've been active in, and maybe going to be the last...i've noticed something in these forums.  they are incredibly argumentative (with myself being thrusted right in).  most of the arguments are using the 'devils advocate' stance. at least, i sincerely hope people are not going to defend the knowing spread of this disease.  but it seems that very defense is what goes on.  to them: karma can definitely suck, and you have a lot of that coming to you.  in my opinion you deserve to be banished from society - yeah i said that, and i'm sure that won't affect your future posts (by reviewing your past ones) so dont bother mentioning that.

i cannot watch such behavior, it does nothing for our problem.  absolutely nothing for the stigma.  if these thoughts were to be leaked into the mainstream, what kind of backlash do you think society would give?  we are beyond fortunate to be able to
live with this disease, we are given prolonged life, and some of you are taking that honor and treating it with the worst form of disrespect. 

I THINK if you are having such a big deal about disclosure, then you just aren't ready to be having sex as someone with HIV yet.  freakin control yourself, don't put yourself into bad situations, or ones that might cause you to be confronted with disclosure in an uncomfortable way, and if you cannot then maybe a message board that is saturated with very miserable gay "men", who seem to just want to tear others down to their own small level of humanity, will not do you any good, go see a counselor or psychiatist.  you probably have a lot of other underlying issues to grasp.

oh and again grow up, take responsibility, and HAVE SOME FUCKING COMPASSION

I have to agree!  If you aren't able to disclose then USE YOUR DAMN HAND.   And, I'm glad some others have stood up and said some things which are rational for once!   I completely agree that this type of attitude that partners don't have a right to know and it's their problem is really making the stigma and stereotypes worse for all of us!

If you're lonely and incapable of disclosing when necessary get a damn dog.   I'm fed up with hearing people rationalize away their guilt and justify putting people in harms way!
Diag. 3/06  Infected aprx. 2 mo. Prior
Date        CD4   %      VL
4/6/06     627    32    36,500     NO MEDS YET!
6/7/06     409    27    36,100
8/23/06   408    25     22,300
1/2/07     354    23     28,700
2/9/07     139    30     23,000  Hep A Vaccine same day???
2/21/07   274    26     18,500 
3/3/07    RX of Truvada/Sustiva Started.
4/5/07    321     27      Undectable 1st mo.  
5/16/07  383     28    Undectable 2nd mo.
8/10/07  422     32   UD <48 on new scale!

 


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