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Author Topic: WBC vs lymphocytes  (Read 3767 times)

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Offline milker

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WBC vs lymphocytes
« on: April 14, 2007, 09:31:13 AM »
I know I shouldn't worry now, but I got my second test results without the CD4/VL and I'm trying to understand. I will get the CD4/VL in two weeks when I see the doctor.

On feb 22 my WBC was 6.5 (normal range 4-11) and today it's 8.4, so I'm creating more white blood cells, which is good.
But on feb 22 my Lymphocyte count was 18.7% (normal range 20-51) and today it's 16.6% !!

Does that mean that my cd4s are being eaten faster ????????? Seems like a dramatic drop ???

I checked on the web and usually the WBC decreases as well as the lymphocyte count, not the opposite !!!!!!! Am I a mutant ???

I couldn't find anything in the aidmeds forums about this. Any comment?

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline SASA39

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  • Posts: 690
Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2007, 09:37:11 AM »
www.thebody.com
Google there lymphocites &WBC  in appropriate section and see what turns out.......
Or ask them....................................
                     Al
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline Central79

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  • Posts: 527
Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2007, 10:08:50 AM »
This is a bit confusing.

I guess the first thing to understand is that lymphocytes are a type of white blood cell. And CD4 cells are a type of lymphocyte.

It's not really a good idea to base how you're doing HIV-wise on your WBC count. It's just too many steps away from the important cells - CD4 cells and CD4%, that are affected by HIV. So I would discount that, it's vary variable.

When you say your lymphocyte count, are you talking about the proportion of WBCs that are lymphocytes? Or the proportion of lymphocytes that are CD4. The figures you've given could be either, and depending which could totally reverse any interpretation. Either way, the change is small.

The figures you need are your CD4 count, CD4% and VL. Even with these tests, you still have to look at trends over time.

All the best,

M.
Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Offline milker

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Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2007, 10:16:54 AM »
When you say your lymphocyte count, are you talking about the proportion of WBCs that are lymphocytes? Or the proportion of lymphocytes that are CD4.
It's the percentage of lymphocytes in the wbc.

Thanks SASA I checked and the CD4s being related to the lymphocytes this ratio doesn't seem good. Argh :(

Before I completely freak out, I was wondering if other had this kind of results and how did they compare with the real cd4 count?

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline bocker3

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  • Posts: 3,385
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2007, 01:02:10 PM »
Milker,

I worked in a Hematology Lab for a number of years.  Me thinks that you are overreading these results.  While your %lymphocytes did drop a small bit (from 19%-17%), given your WBC, the absolute number of lymphocytes actually went up a bit (from 1215 to 1394).  If I was working in a lab and comparing these results between a patient -- I wouldn't even bat an eye -- these are essentially the same.  Really and truly -- try not to focus on these numbers -- these 2 results are OK.  Remember, there are big fluctuations in wbc and the wbc differential (the % of different types of WBCs) throughout the day.

As an FYI.....  my lab's reference range for %lymphs is 14-46, which indicates that "normal" people have wildly fluctuating numbers.  Now reference ranges are supposed to be based on local populations, so maybe your population has a slightly higher % lymphs than mine, but we aren't talking about any huge differences here.

It is always a bad idea to focus on a single lab result or two and make any wild interps without looking at the whole picture.  This is why, in every lab I ever worked, we never gave results to the patient -- only to the ordering clinician, so that he/she could go over the results with the patient in order to get a holistic interp.

Hope that helps.
Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline SASA39

  • Member
  • Posts: 690
Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2007, 04:40:20 PM »
Quote :"Pregnancy in the final month and labor may be associated with increased WBC levels."
Source : http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/wbc/test.html
 :D 
And now something completely different : that is a good websine ideed and seriously ! http://www.labtestsonline.org.uk/index.html
I have allready posted it in my previous threads but this repetition was strictly for you  , and you only ,  ;)
Stay  8)
                       Al
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline milker

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Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2007, 04:58:50 PM »
Bocker you made my day. Thank you thank you :) :) :) Can I hug you  :o

This will help me go through the two weeks before seeing the doctor with no silly breakdown based on incomplete data thanks :)

SASA thanks for the links :) I will take a pregnancy test soon after I'm less constipated  ;D Oops it's not the poop thread  :D

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline bocker3

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  • Posts: 3,385
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2007, 05:31:08 PM »
Bocker you made my day. Thank you thank you :) :) :) Can I hug you  :o

This will help me go through the two weeks before seeing the doctor with no silly breakdown based on incomplete data thanks :)

Of course you can hug me --  I love hugs.  ;D
I'm glad that I could help settle you mind.  It's so easy to get lost in our own heads and start spiraling crazily -- Not that I've ever done that (yeah, right)   ::)
It helps to have others take a more calm look.

Let me know how the doctor appt goes.

Hugs,
Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline sdcabincrew74

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Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2007, 09:27:53 PM »
Milker - cum milk me ... LOL, anyway, do not sweat the numbers.  Have a cocktail and relax.  It really will be OK.  Also, why do you have to wait so long for your CD4 count?  Do you know your CD4/CD8 percentage? 
The difference between an overnight and a layover is luck!

Offline milker

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Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2007, 09:45:02 PM »
The labs won't give HIV info online. I also got a RPR (to check syphilis was gone) and it won't show online either. The rest is available online. I got cholesterol & diabete tests too and they show up (and i'm fine with both). I could call the nurse and ask for the CD4s but if he/she says "better to talk to your doctor in two weeks" i'd freak out. Bocker's answers put me at ease and i'll patiently wait to see my ID doctor in two weeks.

I asked them last time if they could release the results online after I see the doctor but they said they're prohibited to release online, even after I have been given the results. I told them it would help me for tracking, but there is apparently no way they will release. So I've created an account for use with the "cool tools" on here.

I'm with Kaiser P.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,385
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2007, 10:38:17 PM »
Hey Milker,

If you want to be able to track all your results over time, you can just ask your doctor to give you a copy of the lab report.  I get a copy each time I see the doctor.  I have a spreadsheet of all my results, including my two resistance tests.  This way, I can spot trends and I always have a complete history in the event I need to see another doctor at some point.
The results are part of your medical records, so they really can't deny your request.  They could make it a bit bureaucratic if they wanted, and perhaps charge you for the copying, but my doc simply makes the copies himself at the end my exam and off I go.

Just a thought....

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline milker

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Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2007, 10:44:56 PM »
Hey Mike,

it's only my second set of labs, i've learned SO MUCH since my first set !!!!!! So yes I will definitely ask him for a complete copy of the results, now that I understand them better. On the first visit I was just listening to him saying that my results were good and that's all I needed to hear. But i've done a lot of research since then ! It's good that you remind me that they can't deny my request. I don't think this will be a problem with my ID doc, but just in case it does I will know I'm entitled to them. This is very good advice again, Bocker  :) Thanks a lot !

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2007, 06:51:16 AM »
Hi Milker,

If the nurse does say that you need to get those results from the doc, don't sweat it. They'll know you're a new patient and they may want to avoid having you misinterpret your results. They may just want the doctor to give them to you so they can be explained, instead of risking you going off half-cocked... erm... kinda like you did with your lymphocytes. ;)

If you get impatient waiting for your results, think of me and count your blessings that you only have to wait two weeks. I have to wait six weeks between blood draw and results day, unless I want to speak to a nurse who defines the phrase "pain in the arse". Even then I'd have to wait at least two weeks. I usually just bite the bullet and wait six, rather than talk to Ms. Arse-Pain. ;D

Ann
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Offline milker

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Re: WBC vs lymphocytes
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2007, 10:26:28 AM »
LOL Ann  :D

I'm going to hijack my own thread.. but you seem particularly witty on the forums since yesterday, what gives?  :D

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

 


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