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Author Topic: Am I Mental?  (Read 10959 times)

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Offline Moffie65

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  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Am I Mental?
« on: April 10, 2007, 01:21:35 PM »
I don't know how to start this thread, because it is an issue that touches us all, but at the same time, seems to separate us at times.

Mental health and HIV is a subject that the medical field has tackled for us, with the sincerity of an artificial Santa Clause at Macy's.  Many of us have had depression from one time or another in our pasts, and many of us have shunned the Therapist with great care and purpose for the better part of our adult lives.  Then comes HIV and all the attendant bullshit that is loaded on the dump truck that soon follows HIVs introduction into our lives.  Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, then it is time for that therapist visit, because on top of feeling like shit warmed over, and smelling like it also; attending our own depression and mental health is usually far too much of a challenge for even the strongest of our peers.

That being said, we are then drawn to this site and the support that it can provide, and it is then that we find many of our cohorts here are also saddled with many of the same issues we are dealing with on a personal level.  Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing if someone is totally Psychotic, or just a little bit touched at any given point.  Last night, one of our longer term members was facing the wall of suicide and called out for help, and to my astonishment, help was provided with a quickness and a caring that was so astounding that it is shocking.  Even with all the checks and balances that are in place on this site, people went to no end to help a person who was in dire need of help and did so with an unselfishness that isn't always common anymore. 

I wanted to remind those of you who unselfishly gave of your sleep and time, that now you are committed to an open ended time of support and help.  However, it is also important that the person receiving that help be alert to the reality of how much energy was expended in their crisis.  What also is surprising is that this person seems to have sluffed off the event with more attacks on people that were there for them and tried to help when it was needed.  Also, the rouse of multiple names in use has confounded the operators of the site and caused them to scratch their heads to try and figure out if they are on the right track or once again being used for someones crisis, or drama, and nobody really has the answer.

I am not here to judge anyone, nor am I here to praise anyone in these events.  I am however, going to tell you  all to exercise caution in the amount of energy you expend here.  I know from experience that not all the people on this site are as honest as the majority, and when those of you have the empathy and the energy to give help, then that is a good thing.  Only thing is, remember that mental health is a tenuous thing, and anyone of us from time to time can do and say things that seem mental in the extreme.

All this brings me to the point of this thread and to the discussion that it might bring up.

How do you all deal with the times that come over us that make us feel so diminished that we feel like cutting to the chase and just stop taking the meds and let nature take it's course?  I remember times in the last five or six years when I just wanted to end the fight once and for all and just order that last script that my doctor has promissed.  I have dealt with the Therapist and he has told me that I was more sane than he was, therefore I also draw the conclusion that I needed to have someone else to talk to, and immediately thought of you guys.  I know the utter hopelessness of laying there on the bed, soaking the pillow with tears and sweat, legs burning with the constant pain I have lived with for the last 11 years and seeing absolutely no reason to go on.  I hear the people in my ears, from the different parts of the State HIV work that I do all telling me once again to "buck up and please don't die, we need you", and I think to myself, "fuck you, all you bastards that are only using me to pad your budgets and get more money from Washington".  Then I think of the woman who is HIV+ and raising four kids without the husband that infected her and then died. 

Mental health is not guaranteed, and since many of us are borderline psychotic, we are all in the same boat, so to speak.  We live our lives to the best of our ability, and those of us who are in relationships, kiss our partners good bye in the morning, only to sit in the chair, eating that protein rich breakfast to sustain our bodies and keep us healthy physically; meanwhile the pain from the legs, stomach, head and other places in our bodies comes in waves of "a reality" that won't let us even dream of a pain free life.  Is it any wonder that suicide is part and parcel of the HIV experience?

OK, I have made far too many keystrokes and have raised far too many questions for one thread and one day, so I will check off and let this ride and see what comes to the surface.

What I would of course like to see from this thread is an easy solution, but I also know that I can wish in one hand and shit in the other and I know for a fact which one will fill up first.  So in that light, I will take anything workable at this point.  Anything, even little tidbits will help. 

Thanks for not getting pissed off at my post and thanks for any suggestions I can place my teeth into.

Love and Kisses,

(edited for a stupid typo)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 01:26:54 PM by Moffie65 »
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,516
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2007, 01:55:04 PM »
Well, for one thing when I was first diagnosed I was, of course, on private medical insurance.  It was a good policy, so the mental health clause was as good as one was going to find.  Also, living in Manhattan I certainly had access to a wide variety of choices.  However, it was not until I had endured 7 years of HIV that I found myself in a therapist chair, and once I did I recall being limited to the amount of sessions I could have and all that kind of insurance crap.  So one thing I would suggest is they need, with private insurance, to offer something different for those of us with a chronic life-threatening situation.  As far as I'm concerned I think everyone at some point early in diagnosis should have a mental evaluation -- there's just too much of a proclivity to sweep things under the rug and them come crashing down on you.  I really thought I was dealing with everything really well those first 7 years but in fact I guess I wasn't, and what drove me to the therapist was the first sign of multiple things HIV-related going wrong at once, not that my situation was not dire previous to that as I had an AIDS diagnosis from the beginning, but things had always steadily improved overall at least from a lab numbers perspective.  Of course, I know what I'm suggesting that the private insurers do will never EVER happen so I'm not sure why I'm even suggesting it.

The sad thing is that once I went on disability and Medicare, the access to mental health is actually much better.  That said, while I've been in therapy now for 7 years I'm not always sure how much it is improving me, but then I think again and consider that perhaps it has prevented me from getting any worse.  So in that way I am at least treading water and managing to stay floating instead of sinking.  I suppose that in itself is some sort of personal achievement.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline SASA39

  • Member
  • Posts: 690
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2007, 02:22:08 PM »
It would be of an priceless influence for both of you and for all others to expose all your  mental coping history especially to those who do not have a opportunity to be treated by an valid expert.And especially to emphasize the moments which were valuable to you .I have post a thread and suggested to a moderators to make a whole board on this topic , but with no answers.......Maybe you could with your posts her do some more
Thankfull
                                                           Al
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2007, 03:16:09 PM »
Philly, and Alex,

Well, for the first 11 years of infection, I didn't have too many issues that could be tied to HIV because I was young, and full of energy, drive and focus on my life and my accomplishments to even have time to get depressed.  Then when I became really confronted with this shit, I was too focused on survival to even contemplate the end or depression.  About two years into my incapacity, (read disability) I became overcome with the struggle and the pain, and wanted desperately to let it all end.  My partner and his constant support was the only thing that really kept me here.  I had no idea just how devastating it was for him to watch this struggle, knowing that I was only here by just a thread. 

When I first attempted to get some help, it was from the only therapist that was available to me and she didn't have a clue how to deal with someone with a terminal illness.  Fortunately, when the HAART therapy became available the next year, I was able to recover much of my physical strength and work through the pain.  As that happened, I filled my life with projects that were not terribly physical and kept me busy.  I renovated three boats, and one Airstream trailer and really had fun doing this kind of work because above all, it kept my hands and mind busy with "fixing" stuff. 

Lately, as I have become less and less capable physically, I have had great difficulty coming to a place where intellect must take over as the only real outlet for any challenges in life.  Not being able to continue the restoration of my little camping trailer (caravan) that is now more of a shed for stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else; I end up looking at it with a longing and when I think of all the work that is needed to remake it into a little camping gem, I tend to get defeated and think that I will probably never have the energy to finish things the way I used to.  I really don't know if this is just aging, or in fact HIV and aging, but I would be willing to bet that it is the combination of the two. 

I long for the energy to be able to go back to work and keep a job, but I know that with my inability to work for more than three days at a time, I am left with filling my days with stuff that is not interesting at all.  Just how many times can you clean the house before you go screaming into the fog with frustration and defeat.  Is this all that is left to do? 

I guess that last nights depressive events is having it's way with me this morning and for that, I think I know what to do and I am doing it now.   However, what about next week, month, year? 

I guess the answer is somewhere but I fail to see it at this point. 

Thanks guys for entering this conversation.

Love,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2007, 04:38:58 PM »
Moffie (Tim),

I'll begin my reply by trying to answer one of your questions:

"How do you all deal with the times that come over us that make us feel so diminished that we feel like cutting to the chase and just stop taking the meds and let nature take its course?"

Most of my younger life I lived with suicidal thoughts. As I grew into adulthood they were less frequent, although depression has also been a companion, sometimes a severe one. At the time of my HIV diagnosis in 1988, I did briefly consider ending it all. Then as time passed so did that notion.

About four years ago I entered an AIDS hospice house since I was beginning to be unable to care for myself properly. My mental state was failing (as was my body), probably the result of having lost white matter in my spine and brain and years of being untreated which came to a climax the year before.

When that didn’t work out, I became homeless through a series of unfortunate events. During that time suicidal thoughts returned, along with an extreme case of anal warts and  “what’s the point of trying to stay alive with a future so bleak.” Then there was the humiliating onslaught of incontinence and adult diapers (which I still wear BTW), but that’s another topic for another time.

I cannot tell you I won’t decide to end my life if things get bad enough and I am so drained that I can’t go on. If that choice is removed because AIDS takes my mind before my body, then I have set down conditions in my POWER OF ATTORNEY FOR PERSONAL CARE that will not keep me alive beyond my wishes. I also keep a DNR notice with me at all times and each of my doctors have one in my files.

Having those practical things gives me some odd level of comfort. Beyond that, I have my psychotherapist and friends (and hopefully these forums) to at least discuss the burdens with. I also try to think in small periods of time, especially when the big picture is too much to bear.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2007, 05:13:18 PM »
I also try to think in small periods of time, especially when the big picture is too much to bear.

Daniel

Daniel,

Considering all you have been through, this last sentence is, as they say, "BRILLIANT".  Something so simple, yet so unencumbering.  Wow, I asked for a simple answer and you indeed came up with a good one.  I guess on some level, I have done just as you suggest here, but at the same time, I happen to be a hopeless planner.  What this does is often times set me up for disappointment.  I am always having to apologise for missing meetings because I just didn't feel like driving 185 miles to get that meeting on the schedule.  In other ways, I often beat myself up when I commit to a project or other thing here at home and then my sweetie comes home to find me in bed in pain and the home is a mess and I haven't accomplished anything at all. 

Well, you did give a good and thought provoking answer and I will keep that one really close to my heart.

Love,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,280
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2007, 05:21:04 PM »
Hello Tim,

Thankyou for starting this thread. Obviously mental health issues, and how we end up coping with these issues on a daily basis, is a very big part of our lives. This is something we can all see here daily on the forums.

One of the LTS's, that has impressed through the years here is Joe ( Killfoile) and one of the reasons for this is, because he has been so open and honest, about the mental health issues that he has been dealing and struggling with  with for so many years, even as he has stated before, some of these issues were before he became HIV infected. I've always read these posts of Joe's, with great interest, Because depression and mental health issues are something that affect us, at different degrees, on a daily basis. There were a lot of good posts, on the old forums that were unfortunately lost, after the new forums were started.

I've been fortunate through the years that I have always had a good support base. The very limited number of people, and my family members,( and  of course my love in my life Ed), that I confided in, shortly after I became positive, was a big influence in my life, in helping me to keep things on track. Without the support of these people, it is difficult to say what direction my life may have turned. But , I do understand that it takes much more than the support of those around me, to deal with these issues.

I 've stated this before, I have never been on any additional medication other than the HIV meds, and the cholesterol medication. Never been on antidepressants, anxiety medications, sleeping pills etc, so what I learn here from others is very important to me, as I could very well be dealing with these issues sooner than later. It will help me further down the road.



Thanks Tim--------Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 25 mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


Diagnosed positive in 1985,.. In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started on  HAART on October 24th, 2003.

 As of 12/10/14,  t-cells are at 350,  Previous 8/25/14--- 402/ Viral load remains <40

 Current % is at 13% / Previous 8/25/14 11%

  
 63 years young.

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2007, 05:48:44 PM »
Wow, I asked for a simple answer and you indeed came up with a good one.

Relieved you think so Tim,

Even as I was hitting the Post button I was questioning if I was addressing your question or just prattling on. That's another ongoing thing I suppose – having fought against thinking problems in the past it leaves you doubting your own thoughts at times.

The upside is that it forces me to try to be as clear as possible when speaking or writing. The downside is it can be a real kick in the self confidence levels at times.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline megasept

  • Member
  • Posts: 478
  • Steven here...
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2007, 08:02:06 PM »
I don't know how to start this thread, because it is an issue that touches us all, but at the same time, seems to separate us at times...
Last night, one of our longer term members was facing the wall of suicide and called out for help, and to my astonishment, help was provided with a quickness and a caring that was so astounding that it is shocking.  Even with all the checks and balances that are in place on this site, people went to no end to help a person who was in dire need of help and did so with an unselfishness that isn't always common anymore... 
I wanted to remind those of you who unselfishly gave of your sleep and time, that now you are committed to an open ended time of support and help.  However, it is also important that the person receiving that help be alert to the reality of how much energy was expended in their crisis.  What also is surprising is that this person seems to have sluffed off the event with more attacks on people that were there for them and tried to help when it was needed.  Also, the rouse of multiple names in use has confounded the operators of the site and caused them to scratch their heads to try and figure out if they are on the right track or once again being used for someones crisis, or drama, and nobody really has the answer...

Thanks for not getting pissed off at my post and thanks for any suggestions I can place my teeth into.

Love and Kisses,

(edited for a stupid typo)

Look, I am no shrink, and not hip to the latest mental health parlance...But I know this. For someone to lash out at their rescuers is COMMON. It happened to me when an acquaintance called me up sounding slightly out of it. After he mumbled something casually about "Life isn't worth it" and taking "some pills...and being sleepy" I dialed 911. He told them he was fine. They told me he was fine (I couldn't tell for sure whether they had shown up). Months later he pretended like it never happened and was angry at me for 1) calling EMS and 2) remembering. I did take offense at the time. If this is a psychological phenomenon of hitting bottom, my anger was wasted energy, right? I suppose his response has a name. I did the right thing. I'd do it again. Gratitude is never really the point.

I think we should emulate medical professionals:
Help see everyone gets quality timely treatment.
Don't play God and decide who is worthy.
Detach yourself emotionally when possible, so as not to burn out as a caregiver.

 8)  -megasept
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 01:35:42 AM by megasept »

Offline Joe K

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  • 31 Years Poz
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2007, 08:26:52 PM »
Nothing like starting the forum will a real brain burner involving mental health and maintaining the will to live.  I have to break these up because I have some different views, a few suggestions and a few comments that you will possibly find either very disconcerting or very familiar.

As Daniel mentioned, sometimes the most effective ways of coping are also the easiest.  About five years after becoming poz, I had a great therapist and she used to challenge me to adjust how I felt and reacted and she gave me two very powerful questions that have served me well over the years.

When I start to feel apprehensive or begin to worry about something, I must stop myself and ask the question: “Is it true?”  Simple as that seems you would be amazed at how skewed my thinking can be and often I must literally stop what I am doing and answer that question.  More often than not, I find my answer to be no (the thought is NOT true), I am not thinking factually and that causes me to go back and restart the evaluation process again.  It may sound like second nature, or even common sense to ask such a basic question, yet somehow my mind can skim right over facts and grab onto the most arcane things.  However, while this works for weeding out the factual vs. imagined issues, there still comes the issue when my answer is yes, what I am thinking is true.

For example, I have been having real problems with my neck and right shoulder for about two years.  I started in denial and then slowly, as I determined that the pain was real and had a source, I then had to calm myself by asking myself the second question: “What is the worst thing that can happen?”  In this case I saw a few doctors and after some consultations, I realized that the worst that would happen is that I would require surgery to correct the problems in my right shoulder.  Granted this works well for minor to somewhat major issues I might face, yet nobody prepared me for the answer I would give, when I asked that same question concerning my longevity.

I used to absolutely fear death and when the answer of the worst was death, it would send me right up the wall.  It was if the Grim Reaper had become my shadow and I just new that my demise was not a question of if, but rather of when.  I felt this way for almost ten years (85-95) until I became so ill in 1995 that I had to leave work.  I had crushing depression, 32 t-cells and a viral load off the charts.  I know if Protease Inhibitors had not debuted I would not be here, but oddly it was a hospital stay that really opened my eyes.

After leaving work I suffered a very strange episode involving my appendix (medical journal type of strange).  My appendix swelled to almost three times it size and the pain was something that you can NEVER, EVER EVEN TRY AND DESCRIBE to others.  It was the first time in my life I wished to actually die and as I lay in the hospital hallway, waiting for a bed, I came to the realization that sometimes death is not something to be feared, instead it can serve as a way out.  The episode also highlighted to me, just how important my “quality of life” is and the older I become, my quality is of even greater importance.

This has caused me to change my entire life-view and Stephen and I have had real discussions on what we want to happen, when either or both of us, just cannot live, as we would like.  To be honest, I have contemplated suicide often, but deep down I could never do something so horrific to those whom I love and fortunately I possess enough skills to generally recover from my darkest moments.  However I have discovered the difference between taking your own life, as opposed to letting go of your life.

Sadly Tim, your last question, regarding how to keep going when life seems darkest, is becoming increasingly difficult for me to answer as well.  We have talked about this and I sure wish I had some answers as I keep grappling with my loss of cognitive abilities and failing health.  I have often thought that if I were to ever loose Stephen, that would be the last stop on the last train of my life.  I have waited so long for someone like him and I know that without him, I would have little left in my life.

I am just so damn tired, scared and so frustrated that I got myself into this mess.  I will never know what life would be like without HIV and to be honest, I'm not so sure I would want to know, yet the thought cannot help but to cross my mind on occasion.  With every new ailment or decrease in abilities, there comes that dual-question of whether it is due to HIV, aging or both.

I am getting to the point where I no longer care and I often feel that I am much too young to feel this old.  Fortunately, with age comes a little wisdom and I have made peace with myself and I know that when my times come, it will be much easier than I have ever allowed myself to believe.  And to be honest, I like that feeling very much, because now I can just live my life out, rather than worrying about dying someday.  In a very perverse way, my acceptance of death has brought me a level of contentment that I find reassuring and the way I see it, if I do not fear the Grim Reaper, there is little else in life that can scare me.

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2007, 09:15:57 AM »
So here I am, catching up on last nights' discussion and I see some very thought provoking things here that not only are going to help me with my coping skills, but also bring tears to my eyes with the deep things that bind us together. 

Joe, you said this.
Quote
This has caused me to change my entire life-view and Stephen and I have had real discussions on what we want to happen, when either or both of us, just cannot live, as we would like.  To be honest, I have contemplated suicide often, but deep down I could never do something so horrific to those whom I love and fortunately I possess enough skills to generally recover from my darkest moments.  However I have discovered the difference between taking your own life, as opposed to letting go of your life.
[/size]

This is errie, as this has been going on with us since the first of the year and our 60 and 65th birthdays have come and gone.  Fortunately my sweetheart who is not HIV+, has a deep spiritual base and is grounded in Native American Religious beliefs.  This gives him a totally different view of life and death issues than the average person.  Thankfully, this has really helped me also.  Anyway, I wanted to tell you how stunning it was to read that you guys have done the same thing and I stand firm in advocating that all couples do this with the most level approach possible.  It is really a point of growth together and also a deep spirit connection that cannot be had in any other way.  Facing your own mortality together is totally constructive and not in any way negative.  At least that has been my experience.

also, this,

Quote
In a very perverse way, my acceptance of death has brought me a level of contentment that I find reassuring and the way I see it, if I do not fear the Grim Reaper, there is little else in life that can scare me.
[/size]

This last sentence cracked me up because that is just what I have found to be true, and with the recent resistence to my post "On Dying" in the Living forum, I sure could have used this sentence to defuse some of the antagonistic reactions to that post.

Joe and others who have contributed; thanks for entering this dialogue.

Love,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Carolann

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2007, 03:00:25 PM »
I don't know if this will help, but it is a clinical definition of BPD.  I encounter it quite a bit in my line of work:

DSM-IV Definition of BPD

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5).

A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. This is called "splitting."

Following is a definition of splitting from the book I Hate You, Don't Leave Me by Jerry Kreisman, M.D. From page 10: 

The world of a BP, like that of a child, is split into heroes and villains. A child emotionally, the BP cannot tolerate human inconsistencies and ambiguities; he cannot reconcile anther is good and bad qualities into a constant coherent understanding of another person. At any particular moment, one is either Good or EVIL. There is no in-between; no gray area....people are idolized one day; totally devalued and dismissed the next.

Normal people are ambivalent and can experience two contradictory states atone time; BPs shift back and forth, entirely unaware of one feeling state while in the other. 

When the idealized person finally disappoints (as we all do, sooner or later) the borderline must drastically restructure his one-dimensional conceptionalization. Either the idol is banished to the dungeon, or the borderline banishes himself in other to preserve the all-good image of the other person.

Splitting is intended to shield the BP from a barrage of contradictory feelings and images and from the anxiety of trying to reconcile those images. But splitting often achieves the opposite effect. The frays in the BP's personality become rips, and the sense of his own identity and the identity of others shifts even more dramatically and frequently.

Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5).

Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior.

Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).

Chronic feelings of emptiness.

Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).

Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

Dissociation is the state in which, on some level or another, one becomes somewhat removed from "reality," whether this be daydreaming, performing actions without being fully connected to their performance ("running on automatic"), or other, more disconnected actions. It is the opposite of "association" and involves the lack of association, usually of one's identity, with the rest of the world.

There is no "pure" BPD; it coexists with other illnesses. These are the most common. BPD may coexist with:

Post traumatic stress disorder

Mood disorders

Panic/anxiety disorders

Substance abuse (54% of BPs also have a problem with substance abuse)

Gender identity disorder

Attention deficit disorder


Offline Moffie65

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2007, 04:54:22 PM »
OK, for the integrity of this discussion; I cleared out this post.  Please don't ask me to replace it, because I didn't copy it before I deleted it.

I said some things in this post that were not fair to the person, (Carolann) that were not warranted, and this morning, after some consideration, I am going to remove it.  The following three posts will define the nature of the deleted information, and that is all that is necessary. 

I made some assumptions that were obviously incorrect and with all that has happened recently, I just felt that I was being unfair in my analogies of why Carol is not participating anymore.  Also, it is important to remember that if I was in Carol's shoes, I would have made the same conclusion about AIDSmeds as she did.  She did state that she had been online with us for some time, but that doesn't prepare someone for receiving nasty shit in their personal mail box.  That I feel is unforgiveable.

All that being said, I came to the conclusion that this post, which was a tad bit confrontive, should not remain here, as it doesn't offer anything positive to the discussion in the future.

Please don't be upset with me Ann, as I know how important it is for the integrity of this forum and site, to not have deleted posts, but in my defense, I just think that I made an agregious conclusion about Carol that was not warranted.

Love,
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 10:32:45 AM by Moffie65 »
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline DanielMark

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2007, 05:16:48 AM »
I found out from Ann this afternoon, that in fact she was not a charlatan, trying to indulge, but in fact a real and genuine person who was not treated well here.

Tim,

I agree with what Carolann wrote here:

"As a woman who has been visiting this forum for a while, I have to agree that sometimes people are really mean.

I think you nailed it when you called it bullying.  It fits on the schoolyard, and it fits in the workplace and on the internet."

As for being judgmental, I don't see it as that but more like a clear observation. I've seen it happen on this site as well.

I don't try to second guess people's motives or reasons for their decisions  – ever – not in my life and certainly not on the Internet. If someone decides to do or stop doing something then I just respect that as their decision and move forward. It’s not for me to analyse anyone.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2007, 09:17:03 AM »
Daniel,

Yes, I do concur with your statement, and I struggled yesterday with my post and contemplated even leaving it here, or just wiping it out.  Unfortunately, words released are words forever, and they do have power and do have impact on people. 

I guess what disturbed me most was that Carol came into the discussion, left a description of ONE mental health issue, as though it was the final curtain on not only this discussion, but also all of our concerns that have painted a very complex picture.  This is one of the reasons I try to avoid therapy, because it has been my experience that many, if not most, therapists are driven by the clock and the dollar.  To offer up a Google search answer out of a text book to finalize this in her mind, was to me just a bit arogant and left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. 

I think that is what drove me to these conclusions, and at the same time, all the double accounts that we have been suffering here lately.  I just have so much doubt about people on the net now.  Many of us have integrity and honesty when coming here to discuss  issues, and it seems so much like a slap in the face when one comes in, drops a textbook bomb and then exits without so much as a "Thank You" or even a "Kiss my Ass".

Am I wrong for these assumptions?  I don't know, but I must tell you that it doesn't encourage open and honest discussion when there are people who are only here to demean and discourage.

Just my thoughts this morning.

Love,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2007, 09:29:45 AM »
I had a slightly different take on Carol's words. She didn't say "We now have the answer, and we are all either Bipolar, or Borderline Insane." She said "Many bullies, I have found suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder." She didn't say "all people with hiv." She is offering her opinion on bullies in general, that's all. That was my take on it and I happen to agree with her to an extent - BULLIES, regardless of their hiv status, to tend to suffer, to some degree, from a personality disorder. This is my opinion, an opinion formed through personal experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

She left because of a sexually explicit PM she received - at least that's what it looks like. She logged out after sending a complaint about the PM and hasn't logged in since. To be honest, if I received similar on an internet forum I had only just joined, I think I'd head for the hills too. The person who sent the PM has been dealt with and I sent Carol a PM to let her know, but unfortunately she hasn't logged on to be able to read it since before I sent the PM. So, she probably doesn't know. I have a feeling she's not been back since and who can blame her?

Just my 2p.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline DanielMark

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2007, 02:28:11 PM »
Am I wrong for these assumptions?  I don't know, but I must tell you that it doesn't encourage open and honest discussion when there are people who are only here to demean and discourage.

Just my thoughts this morning.


Hi Tim,

It's not for me to decide whether it is right or wrong if your "assumptions" as you call them is what you've arrived at.  You have, and that's what is.

I have to say I didn't really notice that Carolann had left the building, but if she has then I respect her choice. I can see how it could be taken that she dropped a bomb in this thread before leaving, but I didn’t. Maybe I’m just an idjut but I try to look for the best in people, not the worst. Sure it can be disappointing sometimes, but when it’s not it is very much worth it because at the end of the day, I’m the one who has to live with me first and I’d rather not think badly of people. It’s a choice.

It’s hard (if even possible) to know someone’s motives anytime, but by only words on a screen I’d say it’s completely impossible. There are too many variables to consider, and the lens of life experience that a reader is seeing through.

“Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to you as by the attitude you bring to life; not so much by what happens to you as by the way your mind looks at what happens.” Kahlil Gibran

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline BT65

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2007, 11:00:55 PM »
 ??? I just got my bipolar under control a couple years ago.  It took the right medications to do it.  Before it was under control, I was manically staying up all night, getting like two hours sleep, getting up and downing a pot of coffe, staying up a couple hours, (repeat cycle).  I've been in therapy for years, because of being a long term survivor and seemingly the only one in this town not killing themselves from drugs and alcohol intoxication, and also from trauma that happened a long time ago.  When anyone calls me in a crisis, luckily I have a lot of links to put them in touch with where they can get help if they choose.  Look out for burn-out.  Some people will just never change, even when the resources are at their taking.  I know, for me, without the medication, I would be hopeless.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline BT65

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2007, 11:05:52 PM »
One of the questions I always have to ask myself when stressing about something is "how important is it?"  I can create mountains..... I'm on two antidepressants that saved my life.  And I have a really good therapist-the same one I've had for 16 years.  The combination of those with a few really good friends and my introduction to this post keeps me going.  At least I do know one thing for sure-I AM NOT ALONE! 
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Carolann

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2007, 09:20:08 AM »
I sincerely didn't want to offend anyone with my information on BPD. 

No one can diagnose anyone over the internet.  I just thought that this issue often comes up on internet websites in general where bulllying types of behaviors seems to occur again and again.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2007, 09:51:34 AM »
Hi Carolann,

Glad you dropped in again.

And yes, for sure dealing with bullying behavior here and elsewhere on the net is...a challenge.

As for posting material here, sometimes it can be more engaging and helpful to others if rather than just a lengthy article there's some personal commentary with it about the contributor's  thoughts regarding same or even just highlighting the parts which are of special interest.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 09:56:49 AM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Carolann

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2007, 04:20:05 PM »
Thanks Andy,

I agree.  I also think that I failed to carefully read the thread.  I was thinking along the lines of behaviors exhibited on the internet, and often in internet support forums. 


Offline Moffie65

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2007, 05:57:30 PM »
Thanks for returning to the conversation Carolann, and thanks for the last post which also does clarify why you were responding with your previous post.

I do apologise for taking you to task, but my original thought has everything to do with LTS and having both the grace and the intelligence to deal with all that comes our way.  Sometimes it is just really terrifying and at others, not so much.  I seem to be on the road to recovery with my infections and at the same time, my life's quality is improving dramatically, which is always a good thing.

I just get so very saddened by my lack of improvement at times and if I am not careful, it does tend to send me into a place of depression.  I fight that on all levels.

Thanks for not giving up on us Carolann, and thanks for returning to the conversation.  I trust you will find this place more receptive in the future.

Love,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline flight62

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  • Posts: 15
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2007, 10:29:06 PM »
With every new ailment or decrease in abilities, there comes that dual-question of whether it is due to HIV, aging or both.



WOW!!! I sooooo relate to you with these words. THAT'S why SURVIVING HIV can be scarey.

Offline redhotmuslbear

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  • A genuine certified freak of nature, and a hot one
Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2007, 09:11:10 AM »
I do apologise for taking you to task, but my original thought has everything to do with LTS and having both the grace and the intelligence to deal with all that comes our way.  Sometimes it is just really terrifying and at others, not so much.  I seem to be on the road to recovery with my infections and at the same time, my life's quality is improving dramatically, which is always a good thing.


The psychiatrist I see for my ADD meds stated during our first session over a year ago that it seems my greatest mental health challenge isn't the inability to focus and organize if unmedicate, but Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.  Since 2000, when I first felt in charge of my body, I had frequently taking a psychological deep drive into the question "What does it do to a young man to lose over a hundred friends before he turns 21?"--and the doc was putting an answer in my face.  Only through a mindfulness practice over the last six years have I been able to overcome constant anxiety over physical health issues and to begin preparing to live to a "ripe old age" while also accepting that random events could alter my remaining days significantly.

Cheers,
David
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline jordan12

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Re: Am I Mental?
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2007, 11:27:34 AM »
This is an important thread/discussion, the evidence is the amount of emotion created by the discussion.  The net has a treasure trove of information about mental health or mental illness, your choice. Some of this information is good and a lot of it is open for interpretation and even more of it is bad and should not be taken at face value.  The fortunate or unfortunate thing about psychology is that it is different for each individual and none of us fit the diagnostic boxes outlined in DSM.

Therapists like all other professions have good and bad people and it is up to each of us to find a good therapist, again an issue of individual preference.  the relationship with a therapist is often more important than the information they give.

Chronic conditions such as HIV/AIDS always change  diagnostic criteria and mental health professionals are trying to keep up, but one with no experience is going to have a difficult time.  The issues that are in this thread are common to the non HIV population also. we seem to be  more sensitive to them becuase we deal with them more frequently, life and death on a daily basis,  and do not have lthe luxury of denial about our situation, status, numbers.
Life is too short for dram and petty things, so kiss slowly, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly

 


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