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Author Topic: Gut Bloated on HAART expanded overly pushed forward please post ur thts  (Read 2203 times)

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Offline bimazek

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Gut Bloated on HAART expanded overly pushed forward abdominal area, not fat (that is something else)

I am talking about a great increase in the volume of the gut, abdominal area in guys who are on HAART even for as little as a year I have noticed it.  We must confront the medical establishment to find out why this is happening and find out how to fix it.

It could be caused by many biomedical processes... some theories...
guesses...

we know that the virus the latent virus is mostly in the gut and that the VL in gut is much higher than in blood, and that even on haart some replication occurs, perhaps there is inflammation of the gut cells by the stress and effects of meds and hiv replication, perhaps the cytokines and TNF and other bad chemicals released in the fighting process cause cells to take up more volume. 

This needs to be studied, i am not talking about fat that can be on top of the abdominal muscle wall i am talking about a big mass of extended area where the intestines are located...

the reason i think this is so so important to address with dr. asap is that, recent discoveries in last few weeks and months show that... virus the latent virus is mostly in the gut and that the VL in gut is much higher than in blood, and that even on haart some replication occurs, we also know that T cell homing signals cause the uninfected cd4 cells to self distruct, since there is much many  lymph nodes in the gut perhaps this is all happening there and causing the distendedness

some experiments that could should be undertaken... they have new genetically engineered rat that has kind of an human immune system or can get a thing like hiv ... we need science to give the animal haart then harvest the intestines and see what strange and weird and unusual, % of molecules and such are present in the tissue, a complete bioopsy... 

perhaps this could hold a key to latent reseroirs or such things as why mutations happen... i mean there must be localized areas that have high haart chemical values and areas that dont get much haart where the mutations can occur 

i am not talking about fat redistribution, please do not post about lipodistrophy that is another issue

what i am talking aobut is the expanded bloated belly thing

perhaps there is a inflamation effect of the haart interacting with huge amounts of hiv in gut

i think the key is the gut

we need to be more clear that this is not just a blood disease but a gut disease

the gut is the fastest growing cell area... replacing cells every three days

i have never been on haart

am i the only one that notices this?

seems to be 85% of guys on haart

what are your thoughts

do you have this, how soon after haart did it start, did you mention to dr. , what did they say

please post your thoughts


Offline Dragonette

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It's like large flat raised area on the wall of my upper stomach, and is painful to the touch.

Let me know if this is what you mean
"If you keep one foot in yesterday, and one in tomorrow, you piss all over today". Betty Tacy

Offline Dragonette

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PS I mentioned it to the nurse practitioner he said it is a kind of hole in my stomach wall that the gut pushed through. I am not sure this is what you mean though (am also a woman)

"If you keep one foot in yesterday, and one in tomorrow, you piss all over today". Betty Tacy

Offline bimazek

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dragonette-- what you have sounds very unusual and specific and i am not talking about stomach area at all, i am talking about lower the intestinal area, from the pubic area up to the ribs, the belly, in alcoholics chronic alcoholics who drink for 25 years they seem to have exactly the same kind of distended abs area, i noticed this in the wet area of gym, seems that they have same belly

and then recently japanese found that the cytokines that are repressed in alcohol consumption cause immune system dificientcy  difficiency and then i looked it up and seems that the same cytokines the same ones that are effected in hiv are causing immune weakness in alchololism

now in alchololism they die of many same things as hiv, after 35years

perhaps the immune system weakened and the stress and burning of the gut by alcohol causes this swollen hardened gut area


Offline Miss Philicia

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I just assume it's connected to lipo
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Mike89406

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I have been on meds for a little and it seems that if I dont exercise then my gut grows so yes maybe the meds do it but I have to believe that if you don't do some kind of crunches or aerobic type of exercise then yes you should expect you're gut to grow despite meds.

Even studies have proven that with Lipo regular exercise reduces the Lipo, but I know you're not talking about Lipo Biz. The problem lies in the fact that a lot of Americans nowdays especially us Poz's lack discipline in maintaining a regular exercise schedule and often dont eat the right foods. If we americans could overcome this imagine how many less cases of overweight, lipo, big gut, medical problems, there would be etc....
« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 04:21:51 PM by Mike89406 »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Actually what I've read is that with lipo it's not fat deposited on the surface, like with typical people's obesity, but subcutaneous fat.

I'm the same weight I was since high school (170 on a 6 ft. frame) and have always been skinny.  Since lipo set in I've lost fat in my extremities and it's moved to my belly, but NOT on the sides as love handles, but BURIED deep under the abdomen.  You can't do crunches to get rid of that... sorry, trust me I've tried.  There is just no fat on my sides, it's more akin to mild malnourishment looking... like a starving kid from Ethiopia.  It's not normal and I resent anyone telling me that doing crunches is all that it will take -- it's offensive and ignorant of the real issue frankly.

This is coming from someone who knows how to work out and was an early pioneer of the Chelsea Gym Bodyô before it spread out to the rest of the country.

Now, I will grant you that there ARE some folks out there who claim what they have is lipo but it isn't, it's just fat.  I know how my body has changed in the last 6 years though and it's not due to junk food and lack of exercise.  You say you've been on HIV meds "for a little" so I'm not sure how you can properly evaluate their effect long-term on your body, compared to my taking them for 15 years with severe changes in my body and how it processes fat.  This is what bugs me in particular on this board... fountains of wisdom where there is no experience.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 11:14:49 PM by philly267 »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline MSPspud

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I agree that HIV is a gut disease since most of the immune system is based there to fight the daily crap we put in our body.  With that said, I think we have a lot of options in dealing with this disease in addition to HAART.  I would suggest talking to a dietitian or alternative health therapist who deals with these issues.  Fortunately for me, my mother is one of these people and has helped me regulate my digestive system while I take antivirals to protect my tcells.  Your body is complex and it takes a mixture of eastern/western/alternative approaches to truly succeed.  Try not to distress and seek the help you need.  Remember, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of all these approaches.

Offline egello

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this is totally happening to me too,,, even if i eat anything little, and not to mention a full meal, my belly gets HUGE, like a big balloon. in the morning my stomach looks little better, but i notice something buried deep inside my stomach... lipo perhaps or bloated intestine..
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline Mike89406

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Actually what I've read is that with lipo it's not fat deposited on the surface, like with typical people's obesity, but subcutaneous fat.

I'm the same weight I was since high school (170 on a 6 ft. frame) and have always been skinny.  Since lipo set in I've lost fat in my extremities and it's moved to my belly, but NOT on the sides as love handles, but BURIED deep under the abdomen.  You can't do crunches to get rid of that... sorry, trust me I've tried.  There is just no fat on my sides, it's more akin to mild malnourishment looking... like a starving kid from Ethiopia.  It's not normal and I resent anyone telling me that doing crunches is all that it will take -- it's offensive and ignorant of the real issue frankly.

This is coming from someone who knows how to work out and was an early pioneer of the Chelsea Gym Bodyô before it spread out to the rest of the country.

Now, I will grant you that there ARE some folks out there who claim what they have is lipo but it isn't, it's just fat.  I know how my body has changed in the last 6 years though and it's not due to junk food and lack of exercise.  You say you've been on HIV meds "for a little" so I'm not sure how you can properly evaluate their effect long-term on your body, compared to my taking them for 15 years with severe changes in my body and how it processes fat.  This is what bugs me in particular on this board... fountains of wisdom where there is no experience.

Philly don't take it wrong. I'm not a doctor and I don't know everything. The newer generation meds seem to have less incidence of lipo. There was an article in HIV+
magazine several years back stating that exercise can help lipo. Meaning that it can reduce lipo not necessarily get rid of it.
All I stated was that some form of exercise can help it, does it help everybody? Probably not although I don't know everyones story, and health. 

The thread wasn't about lipo anyways it was about the gut which I clearly stated. You know now I can see where many people say that people on this board are edgy I'm starting to believe it.  If you say something just a little offbase with someone you get flamed sheesh. I thought we were living with HIV.  Not, I know more than you because you re newer on this board.

I may be newer on this board but that doesn't mean I'm newly diagnosed but that doesn't matter If you want to correct me next time do it with respect or don't talk to me at all. Sure I may not have been on meds long but that doesn't mean I know the full effects. I also know others who have had lipo for quite a while and they're stories are all different. It seems Crixivan for lipo was really bad for somw AZT for others etc....

I do in fact know that in some people regular exercise helped some POZ people some people don't get lipo that bad w or w/o exercise. I'msorry your lipo got bad that doesnt mean the info was false. Older meds were pretty bad for Lipo.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 01:25:54 PM by Mike89406 »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Gut Bloated on HAART expanded overly pushed forward please post ur thts
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2007, 01:45:43 PM »
I apologize.  You are correct that I said something inflammatory that I should not have, so I again apologize.  The board was very tense yesterday with some personal attacks aimed at me, of which you had nothing to do with and I allowed my feeling to seep into another topic which I regret.

However, I do stand by the remainder of the substance of what I said.  I do think that the deep belly visceral fat deposits may be connected with lipo -- lipo is not just losing fat in the extremities, but it's also collecting and concentrating it elsewhere in unusual locations (i.e. the buffalo humps which thankfully I've never experienced)  I will also add that I've started to get that overall largish torso trunk effect... you know, where your mid-section body become more like a large barrel.  It's like there is fat also being buried on my back, but down under, not on the surface.  I hope that makes sense, as I've certainly noticed this in other men who have been on HAART for long durations.

Yes, the new meds are better in regards to these effects -- I'm currently on fuzeon and prezista and I do not expect any bad lipo effects from them, but the previous damage will not go away or this is what I've been led to believe.  At first they seemed to say when you lost your entire fat on your buttocks that doing crunches would help, but alas this only firms up ass muscle, it does NOT put fat back on.  That is logical if you think about it.  Resistance training does not produce fat.  My last doctor, previous to my current one, told me flat out that I would be wasting my time -- I'll never get my ass back, though of course he still said resistance training overall is good for my health, which of course it is.

I'm just trying to prevent other folks here from getting false impressions and elevated expectations.  My issues are very different from those of you who have just begun HAART and are using these newest drugs, as my body is a repository of all the bad HIV medications from the 90's, and I've been on multiple medications at all times since 1993, and have also had two bouts of +15% wasting, though I did gain the weight back each time.

Also as an aside, Crixivan is one of the very few drugs that I was never put on, so I can cross that one right off for my situation.  Obviously other drugs are causing what I have described.  I'm convinced Kaletra did some of it, but I can't be sure.  When you're on 4 different HIV meds at once it's nearly impossible to say what causes what, and every doctor you will talk to will seemingly tell you something different.  It's rather frustrating, but I just accept it as long as my lab numbers are marvelous, which they are right now.

Of course, this doesn't help me much when I want to wear a bathing suit and go to the beach.  I've not been to a beach in 6 years... how sad is that?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Mike89406

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Re: Gut Bloated on HAART expanded overly pushed forward please post ur thts
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2007, 02:06:52 PM »
No problem,

I havent been on the boards as much with my crazy schedule. I know they say exercise is good for you no matter what. And since quitting smoking if I dont exercise I think I'm going to gain some weight.

As far as the Crixivan I had a faciliatator at my HiV support group in MD that took Crix and had a huge buffalo hump and the drug is known for causing kidney stones. Nasty stuff.

Offline egello

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Re: Gut Bloated on HAART expanded overly pushed forward please post ur thts
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2007, 02:29:22 PM »
wasn't there someone who said that he was getting a lipo doneon his internal fat below the ab muscles? what everevhappened to him?

ass, i am sure you know is not all fat, it is also a huge muscle compared to other part of your body, so if you keep working out heavy crunches and dead lifts at minimum rep, you ass will get bigger. i also think that maybe doing a lot of chest exercise to build your man tits will help your crix belly to look not as protrusive, you think?
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline hussy_24

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  • Posts: 48
Re: Gut Bloated on HAART expanded overly pushed forward please post ur thts
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2007, 07:49:45 PM »
i'm not on meds, but i notice sometimes my belly sticks out a mile, and like one of the above posters it can be better in the mornings,

i look and feel better at the weekend, so i put this down to maybe sitting in the office chair all day, or when i dont sleep enough (say only 6hrs or so) i feel crap in the morning and my body feels literally like it hasnt had time to lie down and stretch back out to normal,

i seem to lose weight and size on my arms and legs, but my stomach is as it was before if not a bit bigger, really annoying..... i try to work out more but it doesnt seem to help, and the doctor dont seem to care ;/

 


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