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Author Topic: Different life span ?  (Read 2254 times)

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Offline SASA39

  • Member
  • Posts: 690
Different life span ?
« on: March 31, 2007, 03:46:13 AM »
Everybody is presuming and hoping  that a life span for a HIV+ could be measured in decades.OK , with proper treatment , adherence , low side-effects and no additional Oi`s and IRIS syndrome  I can agree ...........

But what about a life span for a person-newly discovered with AIDS (CD4<200 or worse CD4<100) ?

He/she has lost almost for shore some CD4 subtypes that were supposed to fight OI`s and cancers and it is commonly known that a newly produced ones are a poor copies of an previous one .I mean my opinion is that when your CD4 fall below 200 (100 ! ) it influence your immune system  in much harder way.........because some subtypes of CD4 cannot be restored for good .

Your thoughts ?
Please answer

Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline Dragonette

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,190
  • Spring symptoms
    • NotPerfectAtAll
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2007, 03:56:22 AM »
Hi there

I saw that you responded to my post - thanks!

Are you in Serbia?

And to answer your questions - I was diagnosed below 100 CDs (77 to be exact), the doctors do not give me less time than anyone else, and even encourage me to have kids. I think a lot depends on the doctors and luck and is very individual. Some people develop severe infections sooner, other walk around with 0 CDs a few infections.

So let's keep optimistic... what do we have to lose?

"If you keep one foot in yesterday, and one in tomorrow, you piss all over today". Betty Tacy

Offline SASA39

  • Member
  • Posts: 690
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2007, 04:06:40 AM »
Yes I`m from Serbia and you ?
Thanks for support...........I`m just askin questions because overhere
we do not have so many info`s.............
"Better ask suffered than lerned one " Serbian saying
                                 Al
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline Dragonette

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,190
  • Spring symptoms
    • NotPerfectAtAll
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2007, 04:31:46 AM »
I am from a small but noisy Middle Eastern country (not far from where you were camping) and living in the Netherlands.

Are you taking HAART?
"If you keep one foot in yesterday, and one in tomorrow, you piss all over today". Betty Tacy

Online J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,217
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2007, 06:07:49 AM »
Sasa,

I had 16 t-cells in 2003, a previous 10 month weight loss of 30 pounds,, pneumonia, esophageal thrush, dealing with PN, and that was 17 plus years into HIV infection. I am still around. I plan on staying around !! There are some days when I don't want to roll out of bed, but eventually I get moving. I am still very fortunate to work 40 hours a week. I just keep pushing forward..., and keep a realistic/ focused/ positive attitude. Take my meds when I am supposed to, and do my best at eating right. And I try to stay away from stress !!

Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Online J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,217
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2007, 06:12:08 AM »
Sasa,

What I also want  to say is this,.... I made plenty of mistakes, especially in 2003, when I should have started medication sooner, however, I also made, what I believe to be  plenty of good health choices,and decisions, shortly after becoming infected in 1985.


Ray
« Last Edit: March 31, 2007, 06:40:02 AM by J.R.E. »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline SASA39

  • Member
  • Posts: 690
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2007, 06:20:42 AM »
Thanks a lot J.R.E
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

Offline suzieque

  • Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2007, 06:36:31 AM »

   Hi,
     I have been down to a CD4 count of 25, then on meds up to the 300-400's, off meds (side effects) down to 40 with PCP, now back on meds ( 5 months) and 230 at the moment. I also have not been given a shorter life expectancy than anyone else. I will say that I have had a slower recovery of CD4 this time, my doc does not think they will never come up, just that my immune system took a bashing and I need to be patient. Have heard of some who always stay in the 200's and are fine, and some who have had REALLY low CD4 who suddenly have super high counts. So be optimistic, is my advice!
                           Best wishes,
                                  Suzie

Offline Central79

  • Member
  • Posts: 527
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2007, 10:23:48 AM »
I don't think that there is any definitive answer to this. I certainly haven't seen any literature relating long-term life expectancy to CD4 nadir, which isn't suprising seeing as there are few good studies showing life expectancy in the HAART era in HIV+ people.

Being diagnosed late, with a low CD4 is a major cause of mortality in HIV+ people. I think provided that you don't die, and your CD4 cells rise on treatment and take you out of the "danger zone" for OIs and the rest that you will live as long as any other HIV+ person.

Personally, I wonder if all the stuff used to measure how functional the immune system is, and the idea of certain CD4 subsets being erased below x-number CD4s is a bit over-complicated. Surely the issue is, is your immune system a) functional or b) not functional and letting in OIs?

M.
Diagnosed January 2006
26/1/06 - 860 (22%), VL > 500,000
24/4/06 - 820 (24.6%), VL 158,000
13/7/06 - 840 (22%), VL 268,000
1/11/06 - 680 (21%), VL 93,100
29/1/07 - 1,020 (27.5%), VL 46,500
15/5/07 - 1,140 (22.8%), VL not done.
13/10/07 - 759 (23.2%), VL 170,000
6/11/07 - 630 (25%), VL 19,324
14/1/08 - 650 (21%), VL 16,192
15/4/08 - 590 (21%), VL 40, 832

Offline koi1

  • Member
  • Posts: 713
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2007, 10:40:18 AM »
Well if you are right about this, I don't have much to look forward to. I have probably already had it anywhere from 6 to ten years and my cd4s got as low as 60 right before I started treatment.

You cannot live your life by statistics. It does not work. If we did, many of us would just shoot ourselves regardless of HIV.

rob
« Last Edit: April 01, 2007, 11:54:02 AM by koi1 »
diagnosed on 11/20/06 viral load 23,000  cd4 97    8%
01/04/07 six weeks after diagnosis vl 53,000 cd4 cd4 70    6%
Began sustiva truvada 01/04/07
newest labs  drawn on 01/15/07  vl 1,100    cd4 119    7%
Drawn 02/10/07
cd4=160 viral load= 131 percentage= 8%
New labs 3/10/07 (two months on sustiva truvada
cd4 count 292  percentage 14 viral load undetectable

Offline Ihavehope

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,366
  • Yes, I'm a cry baby, AND WHAT?
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2007, 11:41:40 AM »
SASA

The only thing we can tell u is to continue to live your life as normal as possible and statistics are numbers that are a reflection of those people who take care of themselves and those who do not. If you are seeking for an accurate answer you will most likely never get it. I asked my doctor if I had a disadvantage since my CD4 counts dropped to the 200 (AIDS) diagnosis within a year and a half of infection and he told me No. He said that as long as I tolerated the meds and they were effective in improving my counts then I can expect to live a normal life expectancy. His answer made me feel comfortable but that doesn't mean I will not encounter hardship in the road, I am still terribly scared of OI's but that is why I am no longer living a wild and unhealthy lifestyle. Do what you can and stop worrying about what is out of your control.

Al
Infected: April 2005
12/6/06 - Diagnosed HIV positive
12/19/06 - CD4 = 240  22% VL = 26,300
1/4/07 - CD4 = 200 16% VL = ?
2/9/07 = Started Kaletra/Truvada
3/13/07 = CD4 = 386 22% VL ?

Offline Christine

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,069
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2007, 12:17:11 PM »
I have been below 200cd4's since '93, and up until this past year, I have been fairly healthy. The first ASO I went to in 1993 talked to me about the numbers- cd4 counts, vl, life expectancy. The counselor said that I should not live my life based on those numbers.

Yes- they are a guideline for the doctors, but they are not the script of your life.

Christine
Poz since '93. Currently on Procrit, Azithromax, Pentamidine, Valcyte, Levothyroxine, Zoloft, Epzicom, Prezista, Viread, Norvir, and GS-9137 study drug. As needed: Trazodone, Atavan, Diflucan, Zofran, Hydrocodone, Octreotide

5/30/07 t-cells 9; vl 275,000

Offline suzieque

  • Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2007, 03:28:22 AM »
 
            I agree, hard to do sometimes I know but not living TOO much by the numbers is a good rule. Take care of yourself, try to keep as stress free a life as possible (that includes in your own head!) stress is a real killer! Rob, if you ARE counting numbers though you are doing well it seems. Your CD4 is rising nicely, your viral load undetectable and your percentages are on the up, after just two months of treatment! I would be happy with those numbers, that trend! When I started meds my CD4 was 25 and I was in intensive care with pneumonia, having been positive for 7 years already, and I'm still here, and well, and intend to be so til I'm 90!
                   Best wishes,
                         Suzie

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Different life span ?
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2007, 01:55:28 PM »
Hi Al,

As you well know, I was diagnosed in 1983.  I worked my ass off until I was devastated by PCP in 1994, when my CD4 was 20.  I immediately started medications then and my CD4 is now hovering in the low 600 range.  It took from 1994 to 2002 for me to get above 300, and then in 2004 it started to climb and has slowly been climbing since that time.  My last lab numbers are CD4 609 and vl at 2250.  I have only been non-detectible, (<50) for about three years, and that stopped last June.

It is important for all of you to remember that when one is infected it is not unusual for your immune system to become very damaged and your CD4 numbers might be very low, but your body is capable at that time to fight the virus and usually rebounds quite nicely.  Then along about 10 years in, they usually start falling as your body is more and more incapable of fighting off the virus and becomes overcome by the fight and looses the capability to create enough CD4s to keep up the fight.  This is often why someone is diagnosed with very few CD4s and then seemingly they recover to almost normal counts within a relatively short time.  Unfortunately, for those who have been infected for a very long time, say 7 or 8 years and then come into care and testing, well, they would possibly show this low CD4 number but they would be way past the initial infection rebound so they wouldn't recover any CD4s as they are already on the slide of losing them in the second wave.  These people should start HAART if they choose, but those in the early stage of infection should usually wait to see what happens.

I hope this is clear, but it doesn't particularly read as such.

Basicly, this bug is very difficult for doctors to figure out, because many people don't show symptoms during the first part of infection, so they might go for years before they show any decline in CD4s.  Also, many consider their infection illnesses as nothing more than a severe flu, so many don't get tested and then go on to live very uninterupted lives until they come down with some other problem that is a result of a damaged immune system.

So, this is why many of you ask questions like the above, and those who know the answer don't come into the conversation, because there are so very many ways that one can read this disease.  It is almost impossible to give an answer that is applicable to every case.  This is also why it is terribly important for you all to get doctors that are HIGHLY proficient in Infectious Diseases, and HIV in particular. 

Gee, I hope this helps somewhat.

Love,
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline SASA39

  • Member
  • Posts: 690
Oct.     `06.  CD4=58  ?    %       VL not perform. ?!?
25.Dec.`06.         203       14        VL= 0
29.May.`07.    broken device        VL=1363
20.June`07     broken device        VL=0
25.Dec `07  CD4=582                  VL=70
14.May `08  CD4=448
29.July `08                                  VL=0
26.Nov `08  CD4=674                    VL=179
16.Mar `09  CD4=554                    VL=0
19.Jan`10 CD4=715               
03.Mar`10                                    VL=0
24.Aug`10 CD4=524                     VL=0
04.Dec`10 CD4=626                     VL=0
15.Sep`11                                   VL=93
17.Nov`11                                   VL=0
05/26 .Jul`12 CD4=713                 VL=0
28.Nov`12 CD4=916                     VL=0
09.May`13                                 VL=0

 


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