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Author Topic: Revenge  (Read 6256 times)

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Offline bear60

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,104
Revenge
« on: June 21, 2006, 07:58:03 PM »
here is the situation:
This guy is newly HIV poz.
He is married and lives with wife and kids.
He is online and finds and corresponds with ...in Poz personals...a guy he slept with about a year ago who , in his Poz profile,  says he has been poz for 3 years.
This person had been told by the poz personal guy that he was negative.
They had anal sex.
Should he :
1. Out the guy
2. Out the guy and sue
3. Not out the guy because his family's privacy is at stake? ( his wife knows little about his private life)
4. Out the guy anonymously
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline Teresa

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,753
Re: Revenge
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2006, 08:02:16 PM »
Im more worried about the wife!

Teresa
Hubby HIV+ 5/5/06
CD4:320
  %: 26.7
 VL: <20
Atripla (started it 8/24/06)
 

Offline DCGuy511

  • Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Revenge
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2006, 09:03:16 PM »
I think he should just ask the guy directly why he lied.  And ask him if his wife knows.

Why all the games about outing? I'd never out anyone. Well, unless it is a congressman or congressional aide who is actively working to limit the rights of gays.

Just my humble opinion
Steve
Infected/Diagnosed Fall 2003
"No Man Is An Island" - J Donne

Offline Eldon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,664
Re: Revenge
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2006, 09:06:36 PM »
I think the wife and kids are more important. How do they feel?

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: Revenge
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2006, 09:15:52 PM »
here is the situation:
This guy is newly HIV poz.
He is married and lives with wife and kids.
He is online and finds and corresponds with ...in Poz personals...a guy he slept with about a year ago who , in his Poz profile,  says he has been poz for 3 years.
This person had been told by the poz personal guy that he was negative.
They had anal sex.
Should he :
1. Out the guy
2. Out the guy and sue
3. Not out the guy because his family's privacy is at stake? ( his wife knows little about his private life)
4. Out the guy anonymously
How about
5. Kick himself in the butt for being so careless and somehow get his wife tested.  He needs to be careful outting anybody, as he's the one married with kids.
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline whizzer

  • Member
  • Posts: 364
Re: Revenge
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2006, 09:23:12 PM »
The guy says he's been positive for three years.  Did he know he was poz three years ago, or did he find out his status more recently and backtrack to figure when he might have been infected, guessing at three years?  It makes a big difference, and it can only be known by talking to the guy.

The newly poz guy  should kick himself in the ass for not being more careful in his sexual escapades and deal with it.  His newly poz status is as much his fault as the other guy's.  He should also bite the bullet and tell his wife.  It is morally reprehensible  not to disclose to her and have her get tested.

Outing is vindictive and wrong.  Unless the guy is an anti-gay hypocrite.

Offline Trish

  • Member
  • Posts: 332
Re: Revenge
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2006, 09:24:33 PM »
Me thinks the cheating SOB needs to come clean with his wife...she needs to be tested ASAP!

I really don't give a crap about the other guy... sure, he should have been honest with the cheater, but hey, people lie all the time, right?

 >:( :(

"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is buit."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline Matty the Damned

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  • Ninja Please
Re: Revenge
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2006, 09:27:28 PM »
Oy!

What's with all this revenge and blame placing about HIV infection of late? We've had like three threads on this issue (which is a good thing) recently. And it all seems to be about "immoral behaviour", disclosure and people trusting the word of other people when they say they're negative.

Rather than outing this person and basking in some self-satisfied and maliciously misplaced sense of righteousness at punishing the evil doers, should we be taking stock of what's really the issue? And that is that people are responsible for their own sexual health.

Why on earth anyone would believe claims of negativity, ESPECIALLY from someone they met over the fucking internet simply escapes me, really it does.

I'm not even sure that I believe the claims of the originator of this thread.

MtD
(Who is appalled at all this vigilante bullshit)

Offline Life

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,388
  • Member 2005
Re: Revenge
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2006, 09:27:48 PM »
Joel, I think you know my stance on this.... Is the infected person willing to put his life, his family, his wife through a bitter battle in court.  This will make the media and will be disastrous for a newly infected person as far as I am concerned.   It took two to get infected.  Trusting that someone is Neg and having unprotected sex??  Ruining two lives is justification not to mention all the mud slinging the families on both sides will have to endure.  Will that fix the situation?  Don't know, best of luck to our "friend"

Love :'(

Offline Oceanbeach

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,565
Re: Revenge
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2006, 10:26:56 PM »
I don't think revenge is the issue at all.  Two men in this day and age having sex without protection is effectively their choice.  The risks have been published for the last 25 years.  Unless the wife was in the room and actively participating, she has become an injured party and has a right to know, if for no other reason to get herself tested and started on a treatment program if needed.  Have the best day
Michael

www.Commission-on-AIDS.org

www.sonoma-county.org/health/ph/hiv/data.htm
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 10:32:29 PM by Sonomabeach »

Offline cubbybear

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  • Posts: 510
  • Joined August 2005.
Re: Revenge
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2006, 11:45:59 PM »
Yeah outing is just wrong.  I'm more concerned about the wife, the husband who can't keep his penis at home should fess up to his wife so she can get some medical attention.  And then she can bitch slap the sun of a gun from here to next wednesday.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 11:49:31 PM by cubbybear »
There's a bear in there!
Positive since 2000
Diagnosed 17/9/2005 CD4 35 VL 293,000
Meds 23/9/2005 Sustiva/Truvada
Currently CD4 232 VL Undetectable

Offline bear60

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,104
Re: Revenge
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2006, 07:56:04 AM »
Thanks for the replies....I am going to ask him to look at them.
Yes the wife has been tested and is negative . She has already had hysterics. The marriage may be saved ....maybe not. The meeting was not initially on the "net", but my friend actually was contacted by this person thru a poz personal on the net and after talking realized it was the same guy he had slept with a year earlier.
I wasnt sure if "outing" was the right word to use for this...but decided to use it anyway...cause this guy who is saying hes neg is probably a closet case. Well, they both are really.
Whizzer, I THINK it was: he knew three years ago that he was poz.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2006, 08:08:10 AM by bear60 »
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline kcmetroman

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  • Posts: 567
Re: Revenge
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2006, 08:05:50 AM »
Truly, the only outing should be his ass being tossed out by his wife.  These type of things are rarely one time occurances.

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Revenge
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2006, 10:13:11 AM »
Hey Bear,

Thanks for the clarification, and since you are showing this to this nice gentleman, then I want to place my opinion here also.

If this man carries this any further, then he is taking on the bad energy of the man who infected him.  Truly, this situation has to come back to your friend and his family, because in the end it all boils down to that old addage that A STIFF DICK HAS NO CONSCIENCE.  That being said, he very much should now focus only on his family and take responsibility for the screw up he did by not using a simple device called a CONDOM.  His marriage, his wife, his own health and his whole life could have been spared this waste of time if he had only been responsible for his own sexual health. 

This is a very cut and dried situation here, and like Matty, I am apalled at the large number of people recently that are trying to hold others culpable for their own behavior.  Where did this come from?  Oh, I know, it must have had something to do with "Baby on Board" and a generation that has never been taught that they are the ones that are responsible for their own helth, bodies, wealth, failure, and everything else to do with "Personal Responsibility".

In Love.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Trish

  • Member
  • Posts: 332
Re: Revenge
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2006, 10:29:38 AM »
I'm glad to know that the cheating SOB fessed up and his wife is negative.  I hope that they can work this out and their marriage can be saved.  What bothers me though is, how can this woman ever trust her husband again?  Personally, I'd toss him out with the garbage... but that's just me.

Yes, it's high time that people began taking responsibility for themselves when it comes time to playing the field.  It's sad that in this day & age with all the STD's, including HIV, people still are not protecting themselves.  What the hell is happening?  Oh that's right... there's absolutely no awareness, education/campaign geared toward HIV-negative people.  What a shame?  And I'm afraid that until that happens, HIV will go on forever.  And people will always blame it on us -- HIV-pos people.  What a fucking mess?  I'm sickened by it all.

I, along with everyone here, was negative at one time, but unfortunately we chose not to protect ourselves... I take full responsibility for my actions, and others should do so too.
"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is buit."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline franfrog

  • Member
  • Posts: 238
Re: Revenge
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2006, 10:57:49 AM »
I am amazed and astonished that anyone has the right to call this man names.  As adults I thought this would be a more civil at hand discussion which obviously has not.  Maybe this guy was wrong for cheating and needs to tell his wife but where in there did it say he did or did not.  Why has this come off the subject by so many to bash him in what happened.  We were all wrong at one point because we were all infected at some point so what make us any better.  Who is to say that we are not the SOB's?  I think we lost track of what the subject is just to call this man names and worry about his wife, even after the fact that it was said he told her and she was tested.  My view on this has already been stated to this gentleman and many know how I feel and I did not think it was the right thing to do for his wife and family sake, but that was my opinion and that was all I said.  I did not call him a SOB or talk shit about him doing this to his wife.  He made a mistake as did all of us at one point or another. >:(
7/05 diagnosis cd4- 52 vl -?
08/05 cd4-299 vl-1900
10/05 cd4-249 vl-349
12/05 cd4-349 vl-52
03/06 cd4-454 vl-<50
06/06 cd4-508 vl-<50

Offline Christine

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,069
Re: Revenge
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2006, 11:14:46 AM »
Hello,
My opinion is that he should tell his wife so she can go and get tested, and he should use condoms with everyone- including his wife. Personally if I were the wife, I would leave him. I could not trust him ever again, and I would resent that he placed me and my children at risk by not practicing safe sex.

I was in a relationship where I should have used condoms. I chose not to, which was my irresponsible choice, and I am still mad at myself for being so stupid. Everyone has to take responsibility to protect themselves, but people deserve a partner that is honest and respectful.
Christine
Poz since '93. Currently on Procrit, Azithromax, Pentamidine, Valcyte, Levothyroxine, Zoloft, Epzicom, Prezista, Viread, Norvir, and GS-9137 study drug. As needed: Trazodone, Atavan, Diflucan, Zofran, Hydrocodone, Octreotide

5/30/07 t-cells 9; vl 275,000

Offline Trish

  • Member
  • Posts: 332
Re: Revenge
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2006, 02:14:35 PM »
Fran, just to clarify something with what I posted...

Should any man ever cheat on me (which some have,) I would and have called them a SOB (actually I used nastier words than that)...this is how I feel and how I see it.  Like Christine said, "people deserve a partner that is honest and respectful."  I'm sorry Fran, I don't see this guy in that way.  And also, in his indiscretion he put his entire family in an awkward position.  To me, that falls under the guise of SOB.  These are my thoughts & opinions.

Sorry Bear, forgive me, I didn't mean to hijack.  I'm done.
"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is buit."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline bear60

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,104
Re: Revenge
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2006, 08:37:22 PM »
Trish...dont worry he has paid his dues.  His wife is fine,  he is Poz. I felt that his story was rather unique in that he MET the (neg)guy he has slept with online in a totally different context.... this one...Poz.com
I was basically trying to fight his fight for him...in that he was angry enough to take it up with the guy.  He is not going to do that after we ...us....you guys here in these forums .... have told him that revenge is not a way to go.
Nonetheless...if anyone knows of someone who has been having unsafe sex and knows they are Poz.....I hope you say something to them.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2006, 09:44:19 PM by bear60 »
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline franfrog

  • Member
  • Posts: 238
Re: Revenge
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2006, 10:52:49 AM »
Trish,
I understand how you feel.  I have had the lying and cheating and so on but my point was not that he is a SOB but that this was not the point of the thread.  I understand how anyone can be mad that he has cheated on his wife but at the same time the thread was about him outing the guy who passed this to him.  I did not want to come across like he did anything right but the point was should he out the guy who knew for three years.  I believe eventually this guy the one who knew, will get what he deserves and there is no need to out him.  That will be more for his wife and family to handle.  That is all I was trying to say.  We were all wrong at some point for contracting the disease and not using protection but did we all find out the person who gave it to us knew?  What would you do if you found out the person who gave it to you knew?   Sorry if I came off like I was defending him for what he did, not my intentions.  I do want to say this guy is really a great guy who made a mistake like all of us did at one point or another.
7/05 diagnosis cd4- 52 vl -?
08/05 cd4-299 vl-1900
10/05 cd4-249 vl-349
12/05 cd4-349 vl-52
03/06 cd4-454 vl-<50
06/06 cd4-508 vl-<50

Offline jkinatl2

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  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Revenge
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2006, 12:18:26 PM »
I am confused though. If he met the guy through poz.com (which you have mentioned several times), isn't it, well, a given that the guy would probably be HIV positive? Just saying.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline carousel

  • Member
  • Posts: 821
Re: Revenge
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2006, 12:27:44 PM »
.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 11:48:52 AM by carousel »

Offline franfrog

  • Member
  • Posts: 238
Re: Revenge
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2006, 04:09:45 PM »
No he did not meet the man through poz.com.  He found out afterwards when he tried to get a mentor on poz.com this was the gentleman who knew was poz for three years.  He did not know before.  He went looking for a mentor.
7/05 diagnosis cd4- 52 vl -?
08/05 cd4-299 vl-1900
10/05 cd4-249 vl-349
12/05 cd4-349 vl-52
03/06 cd4-454 vl-<50
06/06 cd4-508 vl-<50

Offline heartforyou

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,105
  • I must be a survivor in many ways...
Re: Revenge
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2006, 05:11:57 PM »
Who has another fairy tale for me?

"There once was a man who said he was negative. And everyone believed him.
They all had sex and got HIV positive.
No, they did not live long and happily ever after.

Wake up pal....

Hermie
Diagnosed in 1987 and still kicking
Viread, Kivexa (Epzicom),Viramune once daily

Happiness is the freedom of breathing fresh air every day.

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
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Re: Revenge
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2006, 05:16:05 PM »
I'm curious & confused... both franfrog and bear60 know this guy and his situation?
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Revenge
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2006, 06:23:44 PM »
Thanks for the clarification, franfrog.

David_NC, apparently this conversation started on thebody.com before the OP decided to bring it here.

I read the threads over there, and they offer great support to the gentleman in question.

cool to know you are still reading the forums, AIDS2HIV :)

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Joe K

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Re: Revenge
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2006, 06:40:23 PM »
Some threads read like the old game of "telephone", where the last post is far removed from the original question.  No matter how I read this, to me the most important issue, is this guy needs to tell his wife ASAP.  I'm not judging his actions, just the possible reprecussions of his newly found information.  This is not something that you debate to save a marriage or anything else.

Forget outing anyone and take care of your family.

Offline livingpositively

  • Member
  • Posts: 369
Re: Revenge
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2006, 07:22:23 PM »
Ok, so I get that he didn't meet the "poz guy" online originally.  I get that he fessed up and told his wife and she is negative   ;D  That's fantastic.  What I don't get - at all - is even though she may be able to forgive the cheating...THIS MAN IS GAY!!!  He will absolutely 100% cheat again.  He likes dick.  I was married for 11 years.  Got married knowing I was gay but thought I could make it go away.  Guess what...it doesn't.  Big surprise.  So my big question after all of the above is said and done is he is forgetting one very big point of honesty - to come out as a gay man to his wife.  HELLO, even after "the mistake" he was surfing POZ.com personals.  That is NOT where you find a mentor.  That is a separate area that required a separate registration from where the mentors are.

Just sayin

Shane
4/6/07   CD4 450, % 23, No VL
2/19/07 CD4 487, % 26, VL 47,500
1/4/07   CD4 357, % 27, No VL
10/3/06 CD4 500, % 26, VL 18,000
7/6/06   CD4 530, % 29, VL 83,800
4/6/06   CD4 555, % 28, VL 13,000

Offline jkinatl2

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  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Revenge
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2006, 07:30:53 PM »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Revenge
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2006, 07:52:48 AM »
Hang on guys...

Maybe this man is bisexual. Many people are not 100% gay or 100% straight. In fact, the person whose sexuality is 100% one way or the other is very rare. Psychologists reckon that most of use are closer to the middle ground than we'd perhaps like to admit - even to ourselves.

I think people who are genuinely bisexual get a hard time from both sides - they're doubly stigmatised for their sexuality. Surely that isn't something we should be a party to on this website. Tolerance of sexuality means we shouldn't insist a person is either gay or straight. One of the reasons the gay flag is a rainbow is to reflect that fact. Human sexuality comes in all varieties and flavours. We'd do well to accept that and not judge each other's sexuality.

Just sayin'...

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline livingpositively

  • Member
  • Posts: 369
Re: Revenge
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2006, 03:30:54 PM »
Ann,

Respectfully acknowledged.  And while I understand that there is, perhaps, at least some element of bisexuality in the majority, however, I don't think most act on it.  This person is "curious" enough or bisexual "enough" to want to have his cake and eat it too.

Regardless of where his sexual orientation falls on the spectrum, it doesn't change the fact that, as I said before, even after "the mistake" he was still surfing personals ads.  Again, I say, the POZ.com personals area is NOT where one finds a mentor.  I still and forever will contend that he will cheat again.  JMHO

Shane
4/6/07   CD4 450, % 23, No VL
2/19/07 CD4 487, % 26, VL 47,500
1/4/07   CD4 357, % 27, No VL
10/3/06 CD4 500, % 26, VL 18,000
7/6/06   CD4 530, % 29, VL 83,800
4/6/06   CD4 555, % 28, VL 13,000

 


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