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Author Topic: sex is over.  (Read 5574 times)

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Offline racingmind

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
sex is over.
« on: March 20, 2007, 12:30:31 PM »
I sometimes think that having sex when you are HIV+ is too much to handle...

You can't win.

You sometimes don't feel attractive anymore.  You might feel "dirty" or "damaged".

You can have sex with a negative person, but even with safety measures in place, there is the worry of transmission.

You can have sex with a positive person, but there is the fear of reinfection or "superinfection".

With either type, there is the fear of acquiring another STD which your body cannot fight as readily as before because you are already fighting off HIV.

Is sex even worth it if you have these things floating around in your head? 

I wish there was a way to turn off the libido. 

I sometimes cry when I think about this....

in so many ways

sex is over.
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline egello

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  • Posts: 899
  • cb
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2007, 12:41:28 PM »
or, you could be like Bucko and have care free c. dripping sex with other poz guys...

or you could be a pig and just have sex voraciously without giving any shit...
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline ACinKC

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  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 12:45:07 PM »
My sex life has gotten TREMENDOUSLY better since HIV.  More exciting, more fulfilling and more adventerous!  It is what you choose to make it.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Bucko

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  • Posts: 1,947
  • You need a shine, missy!
    • The Spin Cycle
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2007, 12:46:39 PM »
 ;D

I saw the title, and I guess I heard the call of Wonderslut and his magic tub of Elbow Grease. Imagine my surprise to be named in the very first response.

Give me some time to formulate the right response.

Brent
(Who practices what he preaches)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline racingmind

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 12:49:18 PM »
Egello--

I think you missed the point of my post.

I do give a shit, which is why I have this problem.

I guess my post does sound a bit whiny and smacks of "poor me".  For that, I'm sorry.

OK...I'm going to the gym now to work out and look at hot guys and think about how (and why) I can't have sex with them.

OOPS  I did it again.  Smack me please.


AND ACinKC...could you elaborate on what you said a bit?
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline egello

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  • Posts: 899
  • cb
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2007, 12:49:34 PM »
My sex life has gotten TREMENDOUSLY better since HIV.  More exciting, more fulfilling and more adventerous!  It is what you choose to make it.

and how did that happen? what mindset did you take on???
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline egello

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  • Posts: 899
  • cb
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2007, 12:52:05 PM »
Egello--

I think you missed the point of my post.

I do give a shit, which is why I have this problem.



AND ACinKC...could you elaborate on what you said a bit?

sorry, all i was saying was that you could try to not give a shit, and no worries, you weren't whining, i think we all go through this to some degree or another
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,326
  • His name is Carl.
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2007, 12:55:08 PM »
Or you can try to adopt the philosophy that you have forever to be dead and only so long to live.

For me, I also try to hold to the belief that I'll check out exactly when I am meant to...not a second before or after.

I understand about the psychological ramifications of HIV.  I even posted a thread about it yesterday....the whole unattractive or tainted meat dealie.

As far as sex goes, I confess that I would try to steer it towards other poz guys.  But if I am with a neggie, I refuse to let myself beat myself up with worry about transmission if I have disclosed and the other person is making an informed decision and chooses to chance it.  (And btw, with precautions the chancing is pretty small.)  

As for poz sex...yes, there is the big, scary potential for the dreaded super strain or whatever.  There is also the chance that the strain I already have will start kicking ass and taking t-cells.  Things like resistance or complications from side-effects are always there even if I never have sex again.  I could still croak from the one I already have, so I'm not going to freak myself into a cave in fear over the potential for bizarro infection scenarios.  I have learned that I can face whatever AIDS has to dish out- up to and including the tagging of toe.  That will then be the case whether it comes from this initial infection or the Ultra-Super-Megalon Infection that might happen.  Giving up the ghost is giving up the ghost.  I'm prepared for that possibility in my heart and mind.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 12:57:13 PM by thunter34 »
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline milker

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  • Posts: 4,034
  • Protected phone sex
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2007, 01:05:18 PM »
I'm in the same mindset as racingmind, can't figure out what to do, but .. main difference is that I WILL figure out what to do, so I don't think that sex is over. I'm hiding from sex right now for the same reasons as racingmind explained, but this is temporary, too many things to think about for now, need to stabilize my mind, then it will be fine. I think I can live without sex for a few months, and if it needs to be a year, then so be it.

But when opportunity knocks at the door, i'll take it. Watch for the "I JUST HAD SEX" post when this happens :)

Racing, you will have sex. Hot sex. Post when it happens, we'll celebrate with you :)

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,326
  • His name is Carl.
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2007, 01:09:17 PM »
Yeah, and I acknowledge the post I made above doesn't entirely jive with what I posted in my thread yesterday.  I have an over-arching philosophy, but that doesn't always remain in practice.  Like most with grand belief systems, what I practice isn't always what I preach.  It's just an ideal that I strive to acheive.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline racingmind

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2007, 01:20:19 PM »


Racing, you will have sex. Hot sex. Post when it happens, we'll celebrate with you :)

Milker.


It's not that I haven't had any sex, it's that it's just not enjoyable anymore. This is more of a decision to just be celebate. I mean, why torture yourself mentally if the sex is just gonna be so-so because you are too fucked up in the head to relax and enjoy it?  I dunno.  Maybe I'm talking out of my ass...

All I know is that sex is never going to be the same and it depresses me. 
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,326
  • His name is Carl.
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2007, 01:32:27 PM »
I just had a peek at your profile and saw that you were diagnosed recently-  September of last year.  I am not being dismissive of your feelings here at all, but I will say you are in the norm emotionally at this stage of the game.  I felt the same way at that point.  I couldn't even watch porn and get aroused.  If I did, my mental conversation went something like this:


"Wow.  Look at all those future corpses fucking.  They look great right now.  Wonder how many of them are infected?  Wonder if they even know?  This was shot a year or two back, I see...bet one or two of them have woken up in the hospital by now.  Some of them probably have lipo or rashes now.  Not nearly as pretty.  Heck, there might even be a dead one or two in the bunch..."

And so on.  I know:  Hot, right?

The point is that with time you will adjust and some of that depression and fear will dissolve.  It happened for me without warning.  I got smiled at by the hot little guy in Atlanta and was melting and getting gooey before I had time to sadden or scare myself out of it.  I was feeling sexy before I had the time to stop myself.  We talked a bit.  I disclosed my status to scare him off before I let myself get carried away.  He was positive, too...whaddya know?

And there you have it.



AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline ACinKC

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  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2007, 01:38:11 PM »
For me, I met my wife after I was diagnosed.  She is negative.  We understand what the risks are and we use condoms.   We just don't think about HIV while we are having sex.  At least I know I don't and she has told me she doesnt.  We are so intently focused on each others wants and desires that it just doesnt enter into the equation.  I have educated myself on how HIV is transmitted and I generally do NOT worry about any part of my life and the possibility of infecting others.

I guess it really comes down to if you can mentally come to grips with what you have been dealt.  For us, we know what HIV is and its not the end of anything.  The sex is hot, the foreplay is hot and damn now im horny for her!  If you can get your mind wrapped around the fact that you have it, and that you can have a very normal and seriously active sex life with little fear of passing it on because you know 1. how to protect yourself and 2. that if an accident does happen that the chances are still small that it will be passed on to the other person; then you will have fun in bed again.  I have my mind firmly around that.

Like i said, Your sex life is what you CHOOSE to make it.  I chose to make it active and fun.  And ive found someone who made the same choice with me.

PS
Listen to THunter on this one.  He is speaking good magic!

Edited cause I have HIV, and have brainfog sometimes.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 01:54:31 PM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,326
  • His name is Carl.
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2007, 01:51:23 PM »
Thanks, AC!  And you are speaking some good magic, too. 

PS- You're getting hot for the honey over there?  Gee...that never happens.   ::)
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline ACinKC

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  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2007, 02:02:42 PM »
I am lucky.

But I had to do the same things you did.  I had to have the courage up to go ask her out, knowing it may not end well.  I MADE my luck, I didnt let HIV make me unlucky.  If it wouldnt have been my wife it would have been someone I guarantee you that.  Im a never say quit kind of guy.  People love you for WHO you are not what you have.  I am an EXAMPLE of this.  Which is what I try to show.  It CAN happen, not that it WONT happen.

I felt like damaged goods.  You can have a "normal" sex life.  I have a normal sex life. (well somewhat, we are twisted)  My view is somewhat skewed but it doesnt mean that it cant happen for others.  Just the very fact that it happened to me is PROOF that it CAN happen if you want it to.

For that girl in class, why dont you try letting her decide instead of you making all the decisions for her.  You could meet your lovely wife.  Dont sabotage yourself.  You dont need people lined up to be your next lay, you only need one to be truly happy and you'll never find her if you dont ask her out first.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,326
  • His name is Carl.
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2007, 02:03:16 PM »
Have less friends, you say?  I appreciate the sentiment you're getting at, but I had that issue licked from a previous life lesson:  being gay.

I learned from that experience that the truth is that I wouldn't have one less friend than I would have otherwise.  If there was a discrepancy in numbers there, the problem wasn't being gay or having HIV...it was in how I defined friendship.

Or to say it more simply:  anyone worth is shit will be there either way.  If they split, they weren't your friends to begin with.  Just acquaintances you hung out with.

To that end, I will say disclosure- about sexuallity, HIV...hell, about the YOU of you-   is a time-tested golden way of splitting the wheat from the chaff.  What an economic action revelation can be.  Untold amounts of time and energy saved.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Bucko

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  • You need a shine, missy!
    • The Spin Cycle
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2007, 02:03:36 PM »
OK...

First of all, Tim hit on many of my biggest points regarding mortality and living life to its fullest with what we have left to work with. And I'll just add that I see no inconsistency between what he opsted in his "Caterpillar" thread and what he said today. Philosophy without doubt is doctrinaire dogma and gets folks in trouble every time.

What I was gonna really talk about is the options available for heart-pounding, teeth-shattering sex without the exchange of body fluids. There are many ways of going about this that don't necessarily even involve dealing with those dreaded condoms, but they involve using your biggest sex organ, the brain.

Your choice in partner is also crucial. He needs to be of the same general mindset as regards limits. It's great if you find him wowzie-hot, but sometimes hot comes off-label. Attitude counts for much more than "type", and I've had some of my most thrilling encounters with some pretty unlikely candidates.

Let's start with porn, because most everybody here has professed their fondness for it. Porn is a wonderful focussing tool. It's not cold or strange to watch porn with someone else, it's hugely arousing. And the participants in the video can do what you might only dream of doing, and that's OK. I think that's what porn's all about, at least what I find exciting.

Oral sex poses no scientific risk of transmission of the virus, anecdotal evidence and testimonies notwithstanding. Suck, blow, chew and swallow.

I don't get penetrated anally, but I love playing with toys. There are certain situations where toys can do things that mere mortals cannot, even in large groups. Toys increase pleasure and maximize comfort, in that they don't require all that stretching and the gymnastics of certain postures.

And of course, sex is more than thrusting pistons and yawning cavities. It's about intimacy, even casual intimacy (which I sometimes find preferable to the baggage of bills and suppertime). It's about being touched and being held, it's about reaching out to another person and saying "make me feel desireable" and the pleasure in doing the same for someone else.

Sex is the gift you give yourself (wasn't that the title of an old Falcon Videopac?) and the other person when you allow yourself the chance to try. Start with baby-steps. I can assure you that for every step, there is someone who is willing to respect your limits.

Limits don't have to be limitations. Not unless you're being untrue to yourself and your needs. If such is the case, then it's time to reassess your limits, because they seem to be enabling your unhealthy low self-esteem.

Finally, as regards "re/superinfection": Where is the data? I've looked for it for years and haven't found any evidence for it that has any impact on my life.

Brent
(Who is not a member of the condom chorus but respects well-reasoned limits)





Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline Dachshund

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  • Posts: 5,999
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2007, 02:12:27 PM »
Buck-Buck, I'm so glad you are back...well said my friend. :-*

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: sex is over.
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2007, 02:22:05 PM »
Oh, please!  Sex is not over; well, it will be if that's how you decide to live.  You mention superinfection / reinfection from having sex with another POZ® person, that's only if you use no protection.  We all know that the risk of infection is very small using protection.  When you consider the very, very small risk of re- or superinfection in addition to the minuscule risk of protected sex, I doubt I can even imagine how many .9's (as in 99.999) of safety there would be.

On the other hand, I've got it easy, relatively speaking.  My husband is also HIV+.  I'm sure we've reinfected each other over and over since diagnosis, and likely will continue to do so.  We have almost identical mutations and are on the same meds. 

For me, being with another HIV+ person was very therapeutic for me.  It taught me that I may be 'tainted meat' but only to those who chose to think that way.  I certainly don't.  I don't think much less of myself since diagnosis.  Maybe it's a coping / defense mechanism.  I will not allow myself to dwell on how bad things can become (without being stupid about what can happen in the future).  I will not allow myself to think that life as I knew it is over; it's just changing.  I've forgiven myself, the only one to blame, anyway.  I don't know who infected me, or when, but it really doesn't matter.  I am curious when I was so careless, but I certainly can't change anything by fixating on that aspect.  No, I'm not glad that I'm HIV+, but I am glad that I am who I am.  I like myself, HIV and all... but damn if I wouldn't change that aspect if there was any way possible, of course. 

Quit beating yourself up about who you can't have sex with at the gym.  Would you have likely had sex with them if you were HIV-?  I've personally met some great people since diagnosis.  Some are lots of fun; some are just really nice; some are both.  Believe me, I went through the same emotions as you are initially.  I think we all do.  Go easy on yourself and give yourself a break.  You're still you.  I sometimes say "I'm the same ol' David, but with a new plus".  It makes me laugh a bit at it all.  Take care.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline milker

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2007, 02:32:38 PM »
Sorry racing, I assumed that you had not gotten sex, so I cannot relate. One thing I do is cuddling with my best friend, it helps me getting comfortable with body contact with someone negative.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline keyite

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2007, 02:37:09 PM »
Oral sex poses no scientific risk of transmission of the virus, anecdotal evidence and testimonies notwithstanding. Suck, blow, chew and swallow.

Some of us behind that inconvenient "anecdotal evidence" might beg to differ. More to the point, I'd love to see the evidence that there is "no scientific risk". Low risk ain't the same as no risk.

Offline FunkyMonkey

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2007, 02:38:08 PM »
I've struggled with this for the last 16 years.  I'm fine for awhile--thankful that I've had the same caring partner for 15 years and she's still HIV negative (yes, we have black-belts in eroticizing safer sex :) )  But then the wave hits me again.  Usually when I'm least prepared to deal with it and I'm tossed on my cork of self pity.  I can completely go under, wrapped in waves of doubt.  Will I ever have what I tell myself I really long for?  Will this deep, important and core part of my being always feel tethered, limited and imasculated?

Then I remember.  I remember that yes HIV has changed things.  I've changed my definition of sexual and sensual intimacy.  There are times now when we experience deep passion, intimacy, friendship and even the touch of warm hungry lust.  Most times I lay there thankful, connected and whole.  Then there times in that after glow when small dark voice whispers "what if?".

I've learned that that voice may just be the sound of my own insecurities and sexual issues that were there pre-HIV.  Yes, sometimes I feel un-dead.  Not truly alive in the same hungry and visceral way I think I once was--yet not at my final peace yet either.

Each day I just try to remember the next helpful, life-affirming thing that may be out there--and I seek it.  Walking this path this way has put 16 years behind me and I think I may be on the verge of becoming the man I hoped I would grow to be.

Yes--"sex" may be over for me--in my old definition of that energy--but a good many wonderful, sensual, sexual, intimate and life-affirming things have taken its place.

Offline frenchpat

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2007, 02:44:32 PM »
After all, isn't HIV punishment for having too much/too wild of sex?

tell this to those who got it through blood transfusions, the young whose first sexual relationship got them hiv, the thrill seeker who wanted to try heroin "once"...

we are responsible for our actions yes, but there is no such thing as punishment. Get rid of the guilt and you have a chance to enjoy life, not just sex, even with hiv in your body. And like any life, it will have its ups and downs.

mes 2 centimes ;)

Pat
People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2007, 02:50:16 PM »
I sometimes think that having sex when you are HIV+ is too much to handle...
You can't win.

Says who?  ;) http://www.poz.com/articles/1941_11110.shtml  

Hang in there

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2007, 02:59:17 PM »
After all, isn't HIV punishment for having too much/too wild of sex?

Whoa.

So... "too much" sex is bad... and something that should be punished?   

Personally, I've had more sex since my diagnosis than I did before it.

I was dating a guy when I was diagnosed... and didn't feel much like having sex for all of two weeks afterwards... I then realized I was potentially setting myself up for having a lot a sexual issues by doing so.  So, I had sex with him.

Lots and lots of sex with him.

It helped a lot.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline thunter34

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2007, 03:00:39 PM »
Two weeks.  Leave it to you to get over the hurdle in relatively short order.

I'm stunned.  No, really.    :)
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2007, 03:02:31 PM »
Some of us behind that inconvenient "anecdotal evidence" might beg to differ. More to the point, I'd love to see the evidence that there is "no scientific risk". Low risk ain't the same as no risk.

Special thanks to Jonathan!

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10310.msg127650#msg127650

Here is the scientific side of it.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Bucko

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2007, 03:03:52 PM »
Some of us behind that inconvenient "anecdotal evidence" might beg to differ. More to the point, I'd love to see the evidence that there is "no scientific risk". Low risk ain't the same as no risk.

Key-
I'm not going to get into an arguement regarding any "immaculate transmissions" (after all, that is Jonathan's job  ;)), which is lose/lose and won't help the original poster with his concerns.

My main concern is to try and remove the burden of stigma from our collective libidos. Anyone who wishes to feel punished by the virus probably also feels that there is some hidden hand in a rainy afternoon spoiling one's plans at the beach. I don't buy it, never have and never will.

tell this to those who got it through blood transfusions, the young whose first sexual relationship got them hiv, the thrill seeker who wanted to try heroin "once"...

we are responsible for our actions yes, but there is no such thing as punishment. Get rid of the guilt and you have a chance to enjoy life, not just sex, even with hiv in your body. And like any life, it will have its ups and downs.

mes 2 centimes ;)

Pat

Well spoken, Pat. There is no such thing as "innocent" or "guilty" with this thing. It's just people trying to cope as best as they can.

Brent
(Who stands by what he posts)

Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline racingmind

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2007, 04:14:52 PM »
Thanks for all the replies.  The thread splintered a few times.  I know it's just something that every positive person has to deal with at some time.

thank god I have a therapy session tomorrow...

thanks again everyone.


all the best.
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline keyite

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2007, 04:21:26 PM »
Special thanks to Jonathan!

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10310.msg127650#msg127650

Here is the scientific side of it.

Key-
I'm not going to get into an arguement regarding any "immaculate transmissions" (after all, that is Jonathan's job  ;)), which is lose/lose and won't help the original poster with his concerns.

My main concern is to try and remove the burden of stigma from our collective libidos. Anyone who wishes to feel punished by the virus probably also feels that there is some hidden hand in a rainy afternoon spoiling one's plans at the beach. I don't buy it, never have and never will.

Thanks Bucko/ACinKC - unless I'm very much mistaken Jonathan's references support the notion that the risk is low - quite possibly very low. It does not (can cannot) claim there is no risk. There is a difference.

What I do know is that I was infected in this way and I have seen several others on this board who reported it was the way they believe they were infected. There's even one person in my extended group of friends who reported similarly. Forgive me if I don't find that so statistically insignificant. I really resent the implications that we're all at best mistaken and at worst downright liars.

But enough of this - like you rightly point out, this is not what the poster intended with this original post.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2007, 04:27:09 PM »
Thanks for all the replies.  The thread splintered a few times.  I know it's just something that every positive person has to deal with at some time.

thank god I have a therapy session tomorrow...

thanks again everyone.


all the best.

Racing you will come out of this ok.  It is GREAT to hear you are actively seeking help.  I myself was in counseling for a couple of years and it helped me TREMENDOUSLY!  It's ok not to feel ok sometimes.  You'll make it through and if you need us we will be here.  This much you know for sure.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline aupointillimite

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2007, 07:37:44 PM »
Thanks Bucko/ACinKC - unless I'm very much mistaken Jonathan's references support the notion that the risk is low - quite possibly very low. It does not (can cannot) claim there is no risk. There is a difference.

What I do know is that I was infected in this way and I have seen several others on this board who reported it was the way they believe they were infected. There's even one person in my extended group of friends who reported similarly. Forgive me if I don't find that so statistically insignificant. I really resent the implications that we're all at best mistaken and at worst downright liars.

But enough of this - like you rightly point out, this is not what the poster intended with this original post.

Everyday, all of us live with the risk that a meteorite will crash onto our heads and kill us.

I'm not talking about big, honkin' ones either... just one big enough to crash through your house, hit you on the head, and maybe kill you.  It's happened before.  There's anecdotal evidence to support people getting hit by small space rocks crashing to Earth.

I don't let the potential death by meteorite risk (a risk which is not "no risk" but "low risk") terrify or bother me in any way.

There are some things which I think are pointless to worry about... merely because the risks involved are so incredibly small.
Your tastebuds can't repel flavor of this magnitude!

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2007, 10:09:11 PM »
Don't get me started on re/superinfection. If it freaks you out, use a condom :).

Thing is, sexual expression is a VITAL and IMPORTANT part of the human experience. Notwithstanding that humans are social animals, we are also... still.. animals. With ingrained desires which can be suppressed at our (often great) peril.

I imagine it might be more difficult for a poz heterosexual male than a gay male, and probably more difficult for a heterosexual female. But difficult is NOT impossible.

As for feeling dirty and stuff, you simply have to realize that's in your head. And people who would reinforce such depressing and untrue thoughts do not belong in your life. Period.

Living with HIV is something you can do until your last breath on earth. Dying from HIV is something you can also do until your last breath on earth. Those semantics ARE important, because they are part of a mindset that will make this journey bearable, joyful, rewarding... or simply a mindless, heartless trudge to the grave.

We all get depressed. And down. And the stigma impacts us all, even those in relationships. It would be silly to suggest otherwise.  But despair is like ecstacy (the emotion, not the drug). You cannot live there. It will destroy you. Its ok to visit, natural even. Probably necessary.

I hope that as your recent infection settles, and you come to terms with your own demons as regards sexuality, you will understand that what you see as impossible is proven not only possible but very very real, on these very forums, every day.

And as for this comment by another poster:

<< After all, isn't HIV punishment for having too much/too wild of sex? >>

That's utter bullshit, and the kind of thinking that helps perpetuate a terrible stigma. It's also a topic which, were I to say what I really thought, would be hijacking the thread. Suffice it to say, it's neither true nor healthy.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2007, 11:33:22 PM »
Racing....  you're right... sex will never be the same.  But, guess what... this statement was equally true before you were infected.  The primary difference was that you didn't care.

You can choose your fears.  You can make the choice to live in fear of superinfection, something that really has negligible proof and ... even if it is real... statistically would be more likely than dying in a car crash.  Bet you still drive though.

I know it to be impolitic to suggest that you should consider being a rampant slut.   You should, after all, listen to everyone who knows something, to the experts.

Here's the reality on the ground:

Poz guys just don't use condoms with each other as a rule.  I've been poz for 10 years.  I have had sex with more guys than I can count.  The vast majority of these guys have been poz.  I've topped.  I've bottomed.  Exactly zero guys have wanted to use condoms.  If you meet a poz guy who insists on using a condom, well, just know that he's in the minority.   (you pretty much have to respect someone else's decisions, but even so... it's just not that hard to find poz guys to play with who don't care about condoms.)

I am pretty sure that poz heteros don't use them either with each other, but, not being straight and not having had sex with anyone of the opposite sex for years... well can't say.   

But sex is fun.  Sex with negative guys is generally annoying, which is why I serosort. 

Best of luck to you.  It WILL get better
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline david25luvit

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Re: sex is over.
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2007, 01:02:50 PM »
I thought my sex life was basically over too.....
but I was very very wrong... :P
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

 


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