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Author Topic: Hypothetical Question  (Read 11036 times)

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Offline ggodfrey04

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Hypothetical Question
« on: March 18, 2007, 05:27:16 AM »

Hi, I've read through many of the posts here but not all.  There might be a similar case so hope you understand the repetition if there are any.  For the past month I had a sexual encounter with two sex workers.  The first one gave me unprotected oral sex for about a minute till I ask her to stop.  The second was a bit different.  Simply put, I asked for a hand job so she put baby oil, I was about to come when she suddenly got hot and had the urge to have sex with me.  She quickly placed a condom and went on top of me and started sex.  Again, about a minute later, I suddenly thought about the danger of oil being a lubricant and asked her to stop.  She frustratingly obliged, pulled the condom and just finished me with a hand job.  So here are my questions, and thank you in advance for answering them:

1.  I've read that oil based lubricant can break the condom.  Though I haven't checked the condom thoroughly, I'm convinced there was no breakage because there wasn't much action that happened.  I am a bit paranoid that the oil somehow caused some small holes enough for HIV to break through.  Is this a valid logic?  Would the possibility be that high in terms of HIV risk assessment?  Can you give a ballpark figure, say 50% safe or 99.99%?

2.  While pulling the condom, she used her hand to do it.  She was so wet during sex so while removing the condom the likelihood that some of her fluids went to her hand that was used to jerk me off.  Any risks for HIV?  Should I get tested based on my 2 encounters mentioned?

3.  On the different threads on this site, it was highlighted that wearing a Condom should give you peace of mind (in terms of contracting HIV).  Being in the field of medicine and years of experience, can you confidently say that this is 100% safe if worn correctly?

4.  Hypothetical question - say you have a chance to have sex with someone you really like and likes you back that is HIV+, would you do an unprotected oral sex (if you're the man on the receiving end) considering the risk is extremely low since it's only "theoretical" and no documented case.  Would you do protected vaginal sex with her considering you usually stress that it's quite difficult to get HIV from a "woman to man"?  If you'll rate it from 1 to 4 - 4 being a yes and 1 no you wont do it, where would you be?

Questions particularly on number 4 don't mean to undermine you or put you on the spot.  I'm sure you understand that there are people like me who can get paranoid of the possibilities of HIV.  I guess your personal risk assessment/opinion on these scenarios would greatly help the extent of such paranoia about HIV at least on my perception.

Again, thank you not only for these questions but to all of you guys who have dedication on what you do despite the odds.  I have great respect for these people who chose to be doers and create impact to society rather than just being 'watchers of life'.





Offline RapidRod

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2007, 06:05:53 AM »
Read the transmission lesson found in the "Welcome" thread. Then come back and ask your questions again if need be.

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2007, 06:44:19 AM »
Hi Radidrod,

Yes, I've gone through the Welcome Thread message but I'm not fully convinced as my situation is a bit unique with the oil based lubricant.  Simply put is an HIV test warranted?

I'm still hopeful that you and the doctors/experts on the site can go through each of my questions.

I apologize, the paranoia can be daunting at times.

Thanks for your answers in advance.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2007, 06:49:36 AM »
There is nothing unique about your situation at all. You were never at risk. Saliva is not infectious, you had condom on for oral, in which you didn't need to. You don't get infected from masturbation. Oil lubes are not the best lube to use, but since your condom didn't fail, it's a no issue.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2007, 07:44:30 AM »
Everyone thinks his situation is unique because of some little detail. In your situation it was unwise for oli lube to be used but since the condom didn't break no harm was done and you were protected during intercourse. You would have known if the condom had been damaged because it's very clear when one breaks. It's not a teensy weensy little break happening.

None of the other details such as her masturbating you put you at risk for HIV transmission.

As long as you always use a latex condom and a water-based lube if lube is used, then it doesn't matter whether your partner is HIV+ or not. Condoms provide very effective protection against transmission. Period.

No one has ever gotten infected by getting a blowjob and it's safe to say you wouldn't become the first. Wearing a condom while getting one is your choice but it is not necessary to prevent HIV transmission.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2007, 03:28:08 PM »

Thanks Andy, does that mean I was 100% safe as long as the condom stayed intact?  Was there ever a case where condom was properly used and it resulted to HIV transmission still?


Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2007, 03:40:49 PM »
A properly worn latex condom is considered to 99.9% safe. Nothing other than your own hand is considered 100% safe.

I don't know of any data to the contrary and we would hear if such was the case.

 
Andy Velez

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2007, 03:50:53 PM »

Wow, that's a quick reply.  After withdrawal with condom on, there was a possibility that some of her fluids went to my penis, is this a zero risk nevertheless for HIV?   

Would you recommend testing in my case considering there was some baby oil used before condom was placed?

Thanks again for your patience,  I'm sure this can be irritating at some point.  Thank you. 

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2007, 04:01:55 PM »
You're worrying needlessly. As long as the condom is still covering the head of your penis there's no problem.

Always use a water-based lube. Oil based ones "can" result in the condom breaking. Fortunately that didn't happen in your case. So the condom did the job it's supposed to.

No, I don't think there's a need for testing. I suggest you get on with your life and just keep the latex condoms and waterbased lube handy in the future.
Andy Velez

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2007, 08:21:19 AM »
thanks for your assurance.  can you on a 100% confidence level that i'm home free?  not even little doubt that i need to get tested?  am sorry to be bothersome, ive been worry freak after the incident and your reassurance would be greatly appreciated!

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2007, 08:38:21 AM »
Listen, anything other than your own hand is not going to be 100% safe, so you can forget about that.

As far as your incident is concerned I don't see cause for concern nor any need for testing.

In general we do recommend that anyone who's sexually active get a full STD panel done regularly -- at least annually and twice a year is even better. Other STDs are much easier to acquire than HIV.

And no, I still don't see this as an HIV situation. Period.
Andy Velez

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2007, 11:07:28 PM »

About a week before the sex act, the sex worker was tested HIV negative (regular testing is required in the club).  Would this be reliable considering there should be a 12 week window before the virus may be detected?  Say you and a new found partner would take a test today and both would come out negative, is unprotected sex still not safe?

i did wear a condom, what worries me still is that prior to putting the condom she put baby oil on my penis when i received a hand job.  Had a minute of protected sex after and withdrew immediately to continue hand job.  Andy's replies have been helpful, I guess when paranoia strikes you just want more people re affirmation about it. 

Just cant wait for 13 weeks for testing, would a 4 week or 6 week testing be alright considering my low risk encounter?

Thanks guys!


Offline Bucko

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2007, 01:28:35 AM »

About a week before the sex act, the sex worker was tested HIV negative (regular testing is required in the club).  Would this be reliable considering there should be a 12 week window before the virus may be detected?  Say you and a new found partner would take a test today and both would come out negative, is unprotected sex still not safe?
The decision to forego condoms is a very personal step, one that demands that you both be 100% faithful to each other. If you know for a fact that your partner has refrained from any sexual activity when not in your company, and you are certain that you can say the same about yourself, then test together at 13 weeks, collect your negative results together, and be monogamous.

If such a level of trust is beyond you or your partner, then keep using condoms. If I were concerned about HIV exposure, I'd either refrain from seeing sexworkers or else wear a condom.


i did wear a condom, what worries me still is that prior to putting the condom she put baby oil on my penis when i received a hand job.  Had a minute of protected sex after and withdrew immediately to continue hand job.  Andy's replies have been helpful, I guess when paranoia strikes you just want more people re affirmation about it.
This has been cleared up already. You did not experience condom failure and therefore did not have a risk. You were lucky.


Just cant wait for 13 weeks for testing, would a 4 week or 6 week testing be alright considering my low risk encounter?

The period of viral incubation and the brevity of the risk have nothing in common. Only a 13-week test in conclusive.

But since you had no risk factor for HIV, there is no need to test, right?

Brent
(Who attempts to inject logic wherever it's needed)
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2007, 02:56:24 AM »

what is the probability of HIV risk if there are any?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2007, 09:07:33 AM »
G, we're not in the hypothetical business. We deal with actual events and concerns which people bring here to get answered.

If you're really interested in other statistics you need to do some research on your own.
Andy Velez

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2007, 10:24:56 AM »
andy, i apologize if i sound rude, i dont mean to sound that way.  cdc says around 5 in every 10,000 chances for vaginal sex, im just wondering what are the possibilities if it's protected sex.

thank you for understanding our predicament, im sure this is not the 1000th time a paranoia question has been posted.  you guys have been great serving people without anything in return.

as always, thank you for your support.  may god bless more people like you.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2007, 10:38:06 AM »
Rather than getting so-called stats of numbers, which can vary widely depending on where you look, we say that when latex condoms are properly used they are 99.9% effective. Nothing than using your hand on yourself will ever be 100% effective, but condoms consistently do the job when used properly.
Andy Velez

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2007, 10:41:19 AM »
We still dont deal in probabilities such as your 5 in every 10,000 chances theory.

We deal in FACTS.  Lets take a look at those real quick.

FACT 1-You had protected vaginal sex
FACT 2-You had unprotected oral sex (you were the inserter)
FACT 3-HIV is not transmitted through either of these methods.  EVER.  There is ZERO chance of HIV infection in your situation.  Well, how bout that, I DID provide you with a number.  It's ZERO.


edited to add... MAN that Andy Velez is FAST!  And correct with his figures. 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 10:43:01 AM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2007, 11:03:17 PM »


Thanks guys for this website. 

I'm just wondering about the efficiency of condom, I've read a case in "I Just Tested Poz" forum wherein a guy never did oral sex and always practice protected insertive anal and yet he contracted the virus.  This is not to highlight/argue his case rather explore more on how effective a condom can be.  Are there documented cases similar to the above?

Also, if I may ask a personal question, granted your vast knowledge on safe sex, where are you comfortable at in terms of safe sex risks?  I mean would you stick on abstinence/monogamous trusted relationship OR you wouldn't mind casual sex as long as you or a partner wears a condom?  Would you go for unprotected oral sex?

Looking at you as mentors and experts, your personal assessments on these would also be helpful in my personal evaluation of how I should look at safe sex.  So I hope you won't mind my asking.

Am still waiting to get tested for peace of mind.  I guess some words from you guys can easen the anxieties people like me are going through.  I know I had low risk  - protected vaginal, unprotected insertive oral.  Have you heard of a similar case that turned out positive despite the low risk exposure?  Is already to have unprotected sex with my girlfriend and not put her at risk?

Thanks guys.



Offline RapidRod

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2007, 06:17:56 AM »
If the condom is used consistently and correctly, then the condom use is 100% effective.

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2007, 06:50:58 AM »

Thanks for your response Rapid, if you have time can you answer my other queries?

Thanks.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2007, 07:13:13 AM »
I practice safe sex only. Not only do I want to protect the other person involved, but I want to protect myself. I do not use a condom for oral sex.

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2007, 08:01:42 AM »

thanks rapid, im hoping others would be able to respond as well especially Ann and Andy. 

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2007, 12:23:55 PM »
A latex condom should always be used for vaginal or anal intercourse until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship in which both you and your partner test negative together. Unprotected intercourse is the main risk for HIV transmission.

Condoms provide very effective protection. In terms of other activities, receiving oral is not a risk for transmission. Giving oral is mainly risky theoretically. There haven't been any documented cases of transmission from a man giving oral to a woman.

Re-read the lesson on this site about transmission as a refresher course. There's a link to it in the Welcome thread which opens this section.   
Andy Velez

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2007, 01:13:36 PM »
The others are right on the money with their assessments.  My wife and I use condoms for intercourse only.  We use nothing for oral sex and she is negative to this day.  In our minds it is not a risk at all.  And thats what it comes down to, our choice.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2007, 03:13:34 AM »

thanks again guys for your comments.  i still have anxiety attacks every now and then, at least 80% of the time hiv is on my mind.  i know this is not a counseling site, but your words here keep me company and a source of encouragement.

i still cannot convince myself that my unprotected oral and protected vaginal is basically not an HIV case.  the cdc site http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa19.htm, states that unprotected oral even insertive is not safe at all. 

what are your insights on this?  are my worries and anxieties warranted?

thanks again.

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2007, 03:22:27 AM »

in addition, it's encouraging to note your confidence on the efficiency of condoms if properly used (based on your answers on the other posts).  i'm just wondering, has there been a case that hiv still went through despite being extra careful with condom use? 

this forum has been here for at least year i think or probably a lot more, was there ever a time you assessed a low risk scenario but still turned out that the person has caught hiv?

thanks for your time, i know you dont get anything from this whatsoever... you guys are doing a wonderful service, one way or the other, the good karma will come back to you..

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2007, 04:35:30 AM »
Went straight through? Straight through what?

Offline Ann

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2007, 09:54:41 AM »
gg,

There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one. This shows us condoms are very effective for the prevention of hiv transmission.

As for getting a blowjob, not one person has EVER been infected this way and you will NOT be the first.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2007, 11:58:02 AM »

thanks ann, do you also think i dont need tests, havent really checked the condom after... but i feel it was ok though... bit by bit with this site, i am less paranoid but im still contemplating if i should forego the test or just forget about this and move on..

thanks again a lot!

Offline Ann

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2007, 07:05:25 AM »
gg,

While you do NOT need to test specifically over this incident, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Make sure you keep using condoms. You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence. A correctly used condom rarely breaks so get reading.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2007, 07:26:30 AM »

thanks ann, i had std tests and it was all clear... havent had hiv test though considering the window period.. im convincing myself now that i had no risk exposures, can you kindly confirm it again (sorry really i know it's irritating).

- based on your posts here, receiving BJ is 100% safe?
- wearing a condom for vaginal sex if worn correctly is highly effective?

with this info, i should move on right?  no need to dwell on the 6 week and 13 week tests?  everytime i think about doing the test, i have panic/anixety attacks!  my mind is a total mess and have not been fully functional as result.  this has changed my life overnight - hiv paranoia. 

so what im dealing to myself now is - should i just focus on conquering my paranoia or is my fear really warranted that i need to take the test?

thanks guys for your time and patience... this experience is one of my lowest and most disturbing points in my life... it's really amazing that those who are of help and compassionate are people that i dont even personally know of... so thanks again, i may not be able to reciprocate directly your kindness, but i'd definitely pay it forward to others one way or the other...



Offline Ann

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2007, 08:16:47 AM »
gg,

Yes, you're right. Getting a blowjob is NOT a risk for hiv infection, and neither is protected intercourse.

You only need to test for hiv if it is part of a regular, routine sexual health care check up. As you have just had one, minus the hiv test, I would say leave it until your next routine check up. You didn't have an hiv risk.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2007, 05:11:39 AM »
thanks guys, am feeling better, from being full paranoid to about being half paranoid...

i still have to convince myself about the no risk encounter i had... i know it's more of the paranoia and anxiety that have to be addressed, is there a site that deals specifically with HIV paranoia/anxiety?

just curious, have you guys ever encountered a case of one episode of unprotected heterosexual vaginal sex that resulted hiv to the male?

also not to undermine your expertise, and i apologize for asking this - are you guys part of team that do hiv studies extensively? or have direct contact with hiv doctors/experts with their results/findings? or you base your answers based on the newest articles published you read regarding hiv?

im just confused with the different answers, others would say receiving BJ is a low risk activity while in this site it's definitely a NO risk one.

help me believe...

ps - again the questions are raised not to insult or undermine your expertise, as u know people with great anxiety like me are extremely paranoid.  thanks for your answers!



Offline ACinKC

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2007, 10:02:33 AM »
A mental health professional can help you with your anxiety.

As far as cases of one episode of unprotected sex resulting in HIV infection, it HAS happened.  However, it is difficult and the odds are in the favor of the male in that scenario. 

The experts here come from a vast background and study first tier, peer reviewed scientific data as well as drawing from decades of experience LIVING WITH the virus you are so fearful of.  We take this site very seriously and try to give out the scientific FACTS regarding HIV.  Not anecdotes and personaly stories, only data that can be backed up and reproduced. 

In the history of the epidemic (we are talking about BILLIONS of blowjobs, can you wrap your mind around that number...BILLIONS) there has not been ONE documented case of HIV infection from receiving a blowjob, and thus far all the data points to giving a blowjob as a highly unlikely and mostly theoretical risk.

The reason you dont get them from getting a blowjob is the saliva is not an infectious agent and in fact has over a dozen known enzymes that damage the HIV virus.  Some of those enzymes have even been synthesized and combined into lubrication products to help inhibit the virus where possible.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2007, 10:05:09 AM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
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Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2007, 09:08:47 PM »

thank you for clarifying BJ facts...but why would site like Dr. H of Medhelp would not rule it out as NO risk considering his years of direct experience in the field?

how about condom protected sex, was there ever a case wherein couples (one is hiv+) consistently wear condom and yet the other was infected?

thanks



Offline RapidRod

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2007, 04:44:52 AM »
Think about it. If someone uses condoms consistently and correctly, with no failure, how  on earth could they get infected? Dr. H is not consistent with his replies.

Offline Ann

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2007, 05:07:55 AM »
gg,

Many doctors or other health care professionals employ what we call a CYA - "cover your ass" - policy. This means they treat theoretical risks like something that happens every day, "just in case". When was the last time you were hit by a meteorite falling out of the sky? That's a theoretical possibility as well. Does it happen? No. A doctor telling you that getting a blowjob is an hiv risk is the equivalent of a doctor telling you to never leave your house without a hardhat on, just in case of a meteorite shower.

Lots of health care professionals and web sites also have a religious/moral agenda where they don't want anyone having a sex life outside a traditional heterosexual marriage. If they can use hiv as a scare tactic to keep you chaste, they will and they do.

As for condoms, they have been proven to prevent hiv infection. There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one. This shows us that condoms do work. It also shows us that oral sex, whether giving or receiving, isn't the dire risk once thought.

You haven't had a risk in what you've brought to us. Getting a blowjob is NOT a risk for hiv infection and protected intercourse is just that - protected against hiv. Your condom didn't break so you're good to go.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2007, 06:03:24 AM »

Ann, thanks much for your words, it greatly alleviated my concerns.  Once in a while i still think about it but it doesnt scare me that much anymore.  If a condom didnt break, is it safe to assume that it is 100% protected?  Or is there a miniscule chance of exposure?

I have a bit pain in my left armpit and right armpit and mild sore throat, no fever though.. i know based on posts here, symptoms dont mean anything (or are they even considered symptoms at all?)

Guess once in a while, i just need to come back here for some advise.  I apologize for if it's eating your time.

Thanks very much!

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2007, 06:22:09 AM »
<< If a condom didnt break, is it safe to assume that it is 100% protected?  >>

 Being in the field of science and math, you know that there is no such creature as 100%

You also should know that miniscule ourliers are not there to promote scare, but ti ensure proper scientific protocol.

HIV cannot pass through a properly applied condom.

That's as close to 100% as you are likely to find in science. If you require absolute certainty, I submit you have found the wrong planet on which to live your life. Even time is a variable.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2007, 01:34:18 AM »

In response to jkinatl2,

It just seems that all the answers here with regard to condom protected sex is always NO RISK, thus it's safe to assume it's 100% effective as long as there are no breakage whatsoever.  Otherwise, if it's 99.99, then I guess it should be very very LOW RISK, but not 'no risk'.

I claim to be no expert with this, I'm just pointing this out to assess my risks in the future.  Cause if there is even a miniscule chance of transmission (even without breakage of condom), then it would be difficult to be accept statements here that - as long as you wear condoms, you'll be ok.

Also as for receiving BJ, isnt there also a theoretical risk if the one sucking has bleeding gums that could infect the inserter?

Thanks a lot again.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2007, 03:26:46 AM »
You're right you are not an expert. If a condom is applied correctly, used consistently, then you are going to be as close to 100% as you can possibly get. Other than abstinence, you won't get any closer. Now if you have a problem with that, then abstinence is what you need to adhere to.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2007, 05:55:26 AM »
We can parse theory all day long. It's theoretical that someday HIV will mutate into an airborne virus. It's theoretical that a piece of frozen human waste will fall from an airplane and crush you. Actually, the latter example, having actually HAPPENED (the falling to earth, not crushing someone) makes it far closer to an "actual" risk than "theoretical."

But parsing theory is simply navel-gazing, and makes for interesting and speculative, yet ultimately poor science.

HIV as it currently exists in this space-time continuum, cannot pass through a properly manufactured double-dipped latex or polyurethane condom. Even single-dipped surgical gloves do not allow particles to pass through in quantities sufficient to prove risky. No one to date has ever been infected via that route, and no lab test, no simian nor primate work has ever been able to manipulate such an event.

We speal in layman's terms here because we are speaking to laymen. And because most of us are laymen ourselves. If you wish to argue our chosen semantics, that is certainly your right. But it doesn't change the fact that exhaustive science and seriously well thought out epidemiological studies have illuminated transmission vectors insofar as HIv is concerned to a startling clarity.

Your risk was less than that of being hit by a falling meteorite. Zero? No. But only because zero percent cannot possibly apply to human organisms, mutating viruses, and manufactured items.

 Worth testing over? No.

You head down a slope that is both slippery and increasingly inaccurate when you ask that we classify everything as "low" instead of "no" risk. And you do so at the peril of those infected with HIV, who endure quite enough stigma from uneducated people. You also, I might add, do so with no real gain for the uninfected who wish to stay that way.

Use condoms for vaginal and anal intercourse, and you will avoid infection to a degree that is close to a scientific certainty.

Nothing in human epidemiology has ever or will ever be mathematically certain. Applying one set of scientific standards to another science is illogical. Besides, if you really want to mess with your own head (and judging by your posting history, you do) then consider that even mathematics is based on arguable concepts such as linear time and the slow, even decay of radioactive isotopes on a planet which is spinning ever more slowly, bombarded with radiations and elements that have yet to be identified. Time itself is not a constant, nor is mathematics once you consider other dimensions and other theories.

It's still pretty certain that the sun will come up tomorrow.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2007, 08:57:24 AM »

All we can tell you is what we know. Condoms provide very effective protection. 100%, no. 99.9% yes when properly used. Nothing is ever going to be 100% other than your own hand on yourself.

As for the scenario(s) you insist on creating about risk in relation to getting a blowjob, you're talking about one of the most common of sexual acts. Given that we have over 25 years of experience in the epidemic at this point without a single documented case of transmission in that manner... Well, theoretically you might be right about it being "possible." But in the real world of HIV science it hasn't happened and I don't expect it to. If you need to cuddle the possibility of transmission for whatever reason you have, then go ahead and do so.   
Andy Velez

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2007, 08:15:54 PM »

Thanks for your time in answering my questions.  'Am just hoping that answers wouldnt have side comments such as - "Besides, if you really want to mess with your own head (and judging by your posting history, you do)." 

I wouldnt mind being corrected, that's what i'm here for - to ask questions, to be more educated about HIV.  This way the gain is not just personal but would be shared to friends and family as well.  But kindly not judge a person's character because of their "silly" posts.  As we all know, you go to different experts and they would have different answers... so please understand why these silly questions are repeatedly being posted in this site.

Anyhow, I still do understand and appreciate your efforts.  Putting myself on your shoes, getting these questions over and over again can be really irritating and exhaustive.  I dont even know where you guys get your patience and tolerance for this forum (and you get nothing in return).  For that, I salute and thank you.

My questions are purely inquisitive and I dont mean to undermine nor question your knowledge.  If they were taken otherwise, my apologies.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2007, 08:33:45 PM »
Then I would suggest you do less posting and more reading of the lessons. This website has an extensive lesson section.

Offline ggodfrey04

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ARS at 10 weeks after exposure?
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2007, 07:29:16 AM »
Hi, this forum has helped me realize my NO risk scenarios - unprotected insertive oral and protected vaginal sex.  In fact I went on with my life and decided not to get tested.

Anyways, I'm on my tenth week now post exposure, but beginning last week I had extreme fatigue and sore throat got worse (I had persistent mild sore throat in the early weeks from exposure).  I also had both armpit slight pains about 2 weeks after exposure as well.  I NEVER had a fever though but have headaches and muscle neck pains every now and then.

Putting aside that I have zero risk, I Just want to know if it's possible that ARS can still occur at 9 to 10 weeks after exposure?  Is it possible that it can last this long?  Was there ever such a case?  Does having NO fever an indicator of not having ARS?

Kindly advise... I just want to know if I can totally ignore HIV in the equation and just have checked for other probabilities such as mono.

Again, thank you.


Offline Ann

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2007, 07:42:34 AM »
gg,

Symptoms or even the lack of symptoms means absolutely nothing where hiv is concerned. If symptoms happen at all, they happen between two and four weeks after infection has taken place.

Test if you like, but don't be surprised about your negative result. As a sexually active adult, you should be having regular, routine sexual health care check ups anyway. You've already been told this. Re-read your whole thread.

Ann


Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline ggodfrey04

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2007, 08:10:35 AM »

Thanks for your fast reply Ann and yes I've read threads about symptoms and that it means absolutely nothin for hiv.

I just want to know if you guys have encountered other studies with the time period of ARS.  If it's possible that symptoms can exist or occur at the 9th or 10th week after exposure?  Or have heard of such a case?

Thanks for your patience.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Hypothetical Question
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2007, 04:43:57 PM »
Godfrey,

Thanks for your fast reply Ann and yes I've read threads about symptoms and that it means absolutely nothin for hiv.

You say you understand that symptoms mean nothing when it comes to HIV, yet you keep asking us about them. It's a bit of a pointless endeavour on your part because it's not something we've ever discussed before and we're not going to start now.

You didn't have a risk. You're not going to test positive because you don't have HIV. No discussion about symptoms is going to change that.

It's really time you moved on.

MtD

 


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