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Author Topic: help please  (Read 22731 times)

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Offline johno

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help please
« on: March 14, 2007, 08:34:27 AM »
Guys, need your assessment of my risk. Returned from Spain on holiday where I ended up in a sex club. Had protected BJ and very brief vaginal. IS this really no risk? Do I need to have a test before having sex with my wife? Had a cold sore at the time on my lip. Does this increase the risk? Should I be worried about other STDīs?

Also fell coming out of Jacuzzi and scraped arms and legs - any risk of transmission from other peoples remnants?

Need your support guys - desperate with worry.

Online Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 09:21:38 AM »
If I am reading you clearly, you had a condom on during the brief vaginal. If that is so you don't have any cause for concern about this incident in terms of HIV. Condoms provide very effective protection against HIV transmission.

As for the blowjob, even if it had been unprotected there wouldn't have been any risk. In the entire history of the epidemic there's never been a documented case of transmission from getting a blowjob. It's safe to say you aren't going to make history by becoming the first.

I don't see any cause for further concern on your part about HIV in relation to this incident.

Cheers, 
Andy Velez

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 09:32:15 AM »
Andy,

Thanks for the feedback. You are correct - the brief vaginal (2 mins) was protected however my concern is that having had a few beers my penis wasnīt fully erect and therefore the condom may have slipped down the shaft. nevertheless Iīm pretty certain the head was covered.

can you comment on the other exposure i.e. grazes where i slipped and fell and whether this could have been an entry point if there were semen or blood on the floor? Also when i took the condom off I touched the outside of it and may have got vaginal fluid on my hands momentarily - I then washed my penis in water with the same hand. Could this have been a transmission mechanism?

finally, i also performed some brief fingering - no obvious cuts on my finger.

I am really terrified of passing something to my wife. Is there really 0% risk with respect to HIV or possibly a very small risk that merits testing? My wife will expect normal relations to resume very soon - I canīt tell her about this incident but at the same time will struggle to come up with a rational reason.




Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2007, 11:32:58 AM »
You were protected with the condom so no worries as far as the vaginal.  Blow job isnt a risk.  So that leaves the scrapes which arent a risk either.

HIV is transmitted INSIDE the body.  Not from environmental surfaces.  So anything left on the jacuzzi floor is of no concern.  Niether are vaginal juices on your hand which then washed your penis.  HIV is not transmitted in these ways. 

You were smart to use protection, if you continue to stray away from the wife just be sure you wear one each and every time you have intercourse and you dont need to worry about HIV.

0% risk in this incident for HIV. 
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Online Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2007, 11:35:49 AM »
Your head is playing with you because you strayed. You were not at risk for HIV in this incident. PERIOD. 
Andy Velez

Online Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2007, 12:19:32 PM »
And I said "documented"case. Documented is different than hearsay, guessing or conjecture.

That stuff just stirs the pot without providing any reliable information.

 
Andy Velez

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2007, 02:36:28 PM »
Thanks folks for your reassurance. This was a stupid drunken mistake on my part and I am now living in terror for fear of the consequences.

Problem is i was with two different eastern european girls at different times in the evening in different clubs. I definetely recall the second girl where I had protected BJ and protected vaginal. However I am now sketchy on the first one! At the time I was sure it was a protected BJ and some fingering - nothing else. Now I am having a memory blank on this episode wondering whether it was protected and whether it went beyond a BJ to vaginal also. I think I would definetely have recalled vaginal but just canīt remember exactly - wonder whether the fear is causing my mind to play games. Donīt recall removing the condom although she may have done this.

Right now I am in a sheer state of panic. Not sure how i will get through the coming week. Any suggestions?

Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2007, 03:09:46 PM »
Stay off of this site.  Don't research symptoms.  If you have a hobby, devote a little more time to it.  Watch TV.  Just stay busy.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2007, 04:43:26 PM »
Thanks.

One last question - how would the risk increase if I had performed cunnilingus with a cold sore. Again, I donīt think I did, there was some body kissing but not in the vaginal area from recollection. However as mentioned my recollection was not great. I have a cold sore on my lip in the process of healing but it has been cracking on a daily basis and bleeding a little. Would this heighten the risk.

based on my previous emails would you now recommend that i get tested?

Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2007, 04:54:44 PM »
It does not increase your risk.  And no i would not test.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2007, 05:03:13 PM »
johno,

Another word for "cold sore" is HERPES. You should NOT be kissing anyone anywhere while you have a coldsore on your lip, because you will spread your herpes to them. This includes going down on a woman - you can give her genital herpes this way.

However, going down on a woman (cunnilingus) is NOT a risk for hiv infection, herpes blister on your lip or no herpes blister. But as I said, you should NEVER do this while you have a herpes outbreak on your lip, for HER sake, not for yours.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2007, 05:05:50 PM »
Ann,

Of course I would never do this deliberately however the effects of the alcohol may have predominated. fact is i just donīt know.

Ann, do you also agree with ACinKC on the testing question given my scant recollection of events with the first lady?

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2007, 05:16:25 PM »
johno,

You only need to test if it is part of your regular, routine sexual health care.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2007, 05:31:56 AM »
Guys,

I know I said I just returned from Spain on vacation - fact is Iīm still here. Just embarrased at the level of fear this incident has generated in me. I,ve now had diarhoea for the last few days and generally feel in a heightened state of anxiety.

last night I went and spoke to the first girl I was with to clarify what exactly happened since I had no long term recollection.

Turns out risk was protected blowjob, internal fingering of her vagina and brief body and mouth kissing (note that i had a cold sore)

Second girl risk was protected BJ and protected vaginal - donīt recall the condom breaking or coming off although it may have been shrivelled up.

based on this and the fact that I recently had a definitive negative test at the appropriate time I assume you would recommend against testing again over this incident? What worries me most is the fingering and kissing, etc since it wasnīt protected. I have read the lessons and note that there has never been a definitive case due to this however could this not be due to the fact that other activities take place at the same time. The finger I used has no major cuts but what about micro cuts or under the fingernails? How long would the virus survive outside the human body on e.g. a finger. iīm worried that touching an eye e.g. couls result in transmission.

The ladies I was with both said they did not have HIV however I guess they are probably likely to say this.

Sorry for rambling on - I really am in a state of fear. really concerned about passing something to my wife- despite some earlier reassurances. Trying to avoid what ifīs but obviously my mind is not mature enough to deal with this situation. certainly wonīt be putting myself in this position again.

Appreciate the support from everyone on the forum - keeping me going at the moment.

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2007, 09:52:23 AM »
johno,

Neither kissing nor fingering are risks for hiv transmission. I hope you told the first woman that you may have infected her with oral herpes. And don't start fretting that your oral herpes put you at risk from the kiss, the only person at risk for anything was the woman you kissed.

You haven't had an hiv risk whatsoever. Condoms have been proven to prevent hiv infection and not only that, but GETTING a blowjob, with or without a condom, is not a risk for hiv infection. Not one person has ever been infected through getting a blowjob, fingering or kissing and you won't be the first.

Keep using those condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2007, 01:38:57 PM »
Thanks for the reassurance Ann.

I take your point about the Oral herpes - as i said before I never set out to pass this to anyone however i guess this is a lesson in how messed up alcohol makes you.

Can you comment on the fingering incident. I have read the lessons but I,m not sure i understand the science behind this as compared to e.g. vaginal fluids getting into a cut on the penis. If there are any types of cuts or scratched on your finger would this not pose the same risk as vaginal? Sorry if it,s a stupid question but understanding the reason behind why might help me to let go on this fear. i donīt have any major cuts on my finger (one at the base which is healing) but wouldnīt know if there are micro cuts. Would this not pose a risk.

Thanks for your patience in answering me.



Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2007, 02:05:23 PM »
johno,

Check out this post on the same subject:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10004.msg123656#msg123656

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2007, 05:35:07 AM »
Ann,

Thanks for this - excellent link and answered most of my questions. Would there be a risk of fingering if the finger inserted in the vagina with fluid on it then touched other areas that had the required cell structure e.g. foreskin or anus? Also, not sure how itīs known for certain that fingering isnīt a risk since surely it could be possible that someone could be infected this way and assume it happened as a result of another risk.

As you can probably tell I am still freaking out over the events that occured. Two days later I am having night sweats and diarhoea. i know that you say symptoms mean nothing but mentally itīs hard to ignore when you have otherwise been healthy.

Apart from the fingering everything else was protected. however due to the alcohol consumption my penis was not very erect. in fact the lady i was with changed the condom halfway through receiving a blow job presumably for this reason. However I am concerned it may have slipped such that the head of the penis was uncovered during the vaginal intercourse. I do remember taking it off at the end and it wasnīt burst however I donīt know how much of my penis was covered. If it wasnīt presumably this changes the whole risk scenario? Appreciate your thoughts. i have read the condom link in your email and it seems to suggest to be careful with condom application if the penis is not erect.

I will return home tomorrow on Sunday but still canīt get comfortable with the fact that I wonīt be putting my wife at significant risk. Does what I have told you change your previous advice?

Appreciate your patience. I know I have been extremely stupid however fact is I am really struggling at the moment and this site had been an immense help so far.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2007, 06:11:20 AM »
You were never at risk. If you took the condom off, the condom was always on. If it would not have slipped off, you could never have gotten it back on, without putting it on by hand.

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2007, 01:06:54 PM »
Thanks Rapid. My concern wasnīt that it had come off completely but that it had slipped to the point where the foreskin and or penis head wasnīt covered.

Sounds like the concensus from all is no need to test in this case. right?

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2007, 04:02:41 PM »
Guys,

The condom I was using was put on by the lady in question during BJ. this then turned to vaginal intercourse. Despite removing the condom at the end of intercourse my worry is that I wasnīt erect enough and the condom slipped to the point it wasnīt properly covering my foreskin or the head of my penis. Am I right in thinking if the condom slid that far that it would just come off completely or are my fears founded somewhat? Should also add that the intercourse was fairly brief.

With this uncertainty do you suggest I test.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2007, 09:32:39 PM »
If a condom would have slipped off that far you wouldn't have taken it off your penis. She would have had to pull it out of her vagina. NO, you don't need to test.

Online Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2007, 10:36:20 PM »
Your mind is torturing you for some personal reasons you maybe aware about. Shame about your actions? Do you have a partner you cheated on? Any or all of the above?

Because nothing you have reported leads me to believe you were at risk for transmission.

The biggest red flag in the situation is that you were drinking excessively. It's never a good idea to mix casual sex and excessive drinking. Fortunately from everything you have reported your penis head was covered during intercourse and that's what matters as far as transmission risk is concerned.

The only reasons to test for HIV would be 1) if you have a serious doubt about whether one of the incidents was unprotected -- and I say IF because it sounds like both were protected OR 2) if you need a negative test result to put your mind at ease.

Otherwise I say take a breath and get on with your life.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2007, 05:37:24 AM »
Guys, thanks for the reassurance.

Since this happened I have had night sweats every night (no fever) which has also freaked me. I know that seroconversion normally takes 2 weeks or more however is there any documented evidence of seroconversion after 1 or 2 days?

Iīm trying not to get hung up on symptoms however itīs a bit disconcerting when this is so coincidental.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2007, 06:46:09 AM »
Whatever your problems are, they are unrelated to HIV.

Online Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2007, 07:45:37 AM »
Coincidental. That's the right word, John. And no, you would not be manifesting ARS two days after an exposure.

Your mind is working overtime to no good purpose, sifting everything through a mindset looking for proof of your worst fears. All of course without any basis in HIV science of course, but that's how minds can go sometimes.

Based on what you reported of your incidents, I still say this is NOT an HIV situation, sweats and all notwithstanding.



Andy Velez

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2007, 11:10:27 AM »
Thanks for the support you have given - it has certainly been a massive help over the last week.

At the end of the day however I don't see any alternative for me other than to test just because I'm worried that the condom, although used, may not have been properly in place. I guess I need guarantees at this point something that you can't understandably give.

Over the last day I have started to feel some minor discomfort in my groin area and have concerns that it could be Chlamydia or Gonorrhea. I will go and test for this during the coming week however if that were to be positive then it would more than likely signify that the condom wasn't providing proper coverage. That being the case how does it change my risk? I never understand comments that suggest one time vaginal exposure female to male unprotected probably isn't going to result in HIV when you see all of the statistics about the number of hetrosexuals acquiring HIV every year - largest growth in new cases. How do these two add up?

I realise I'm probably overanalysing the situation however guess that's my way of dealing with things!

Online Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2007, 11:40:58 AM »
The "massive help" doesn't seem to have been so massively helpful after all. You're still busily coming up with more what ifs -- what if I have these other STDs and what if that means HIV could also have been transmitted. And what about all of the men infected worldwide, etc. All irrelevant "stuff" as far as you are concerned, no matter what your mind says to the contrary. 

We've discussed your specific situation. A condom was used. They provide very effective protection.

By all means go ahead and check with your doctor about other STDs. We are focused on HIV on this site. I think it's unlikely that you picked up anything else given what you described, but even if you did, it wouldn't change the HIV aspect of this conversation.

That's just your mind playing with your again. You're starting to convince me that you need to see a counselor or other mental health specialist to discuss what's going on.

Andy Velez

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2007, 11:48:03 AM »
Sorry Andy - didn't mean to get your back up. I'm just finding it really difficult to accept that my incident was no risk for HIV.

I'll refrain from posting further.

Online Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2007, 11:57:11 AM »
John, just because your mind keeps telling you otherwise doesn't change the basic facts of what you have reported. Feelings are not facts.

Go ahead and get tested at 13 weeks, collect what I expect inevitably will be a negative result and hopefully that will put an end to your concern.

In the meantime stay productively busy and you will find the waiting time will pass more quickly and comfortably than you may imagine possible at this point.
Andy Velez

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2007, 06:52:59 AM »
Just so that I can be absolutely clear the concensus is that I pose absolutely no HIV risk to my wife should I decide to engage in intercourse at this point, based on what I have told you?

I definetely remember a condom in place for the oral sex (both times) and used the same condom for brief vaginal. I also definetely remember taking it off and asking where to put it. Based on rapidrod's feedback this would imply the head was covered during vaginal? Is there any possibility that vaginal fluid could have transferred to my foresking during removal and infected this way via the mucous membranes (I am uncircumcised). I also note that the infectious fluid's are normally at the cervix - guess that would imply I wouldn't have come into contact with them if not fully erect?

Sorry to keep harking on about this but I had a terrible night last night and it all seems to revolve around whether this condom would have been effective or not.

BTW I have today arranged for a check-up on other STD's and am seriously considering mental health counselling. This is driving me nuts!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2007, 07:03:36 AM »
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2007, 07:34:24 AM »
Message received and understood. However please understand that I am only questioning to understand specifically why this is a no risk situation. There's too much at stake to do otherwise.

I won't trouble the forum any longer!

Online Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2007, 10:12:37 AM »
John, you had a condom on for intercourse. They provide very effective protection. And no, cervical fluid would not have gotten on to your penis while removing the condom. With a condom on it's irrelevant that you're not circumcised.

We would have known long before today if transmission was that easy to accomplish while removing a condom.

You are worrying needlessly.
Andy Velez

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2007, 11:23:18 AM »
Andy,

Thanks for your continuing words of support. Really appreciated.

I really do understand that having a condom on prevents against HIV. The thing that seems to be driving my fears is trying to remember whether the condom was on sufficiently enough for it to be effective. As I said previously I was drunk and also not very erect so although I took it off at the end I am struggling to convince myself that it covered what it needed to. If it didn't then that probably put a totally different perspective on my risk as I have read that there is quite a high HIV prevalence amongst Eastern European Sex Workers.

On top of that I am also feeling extremely guilty about what I have done and the potential implications for my wife and family.

That's it in a nutshell - I don't want to continue to take advantage of the good nature of the people who have supported me on this forum. I'm just having difficulty getting beyond the condom on/condom off scenario.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2007, 11:31:58 AM »
If it wasnt on properly it would have ended up INSIDE her.  You were covered.

It's the guilt thats bothering you the most.  And that we cant help you with.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Online Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2007, 11:39:49 AM »
Actually John, I have suspected that guilt is the real issue here. Guilt is not a testament to your finer character nor a love tribute to your wife and family. It's just an indulgence that is bad for all concerned, whether they are aware it's going on or not.

You did what you did. That cannot be undone. You're a dog like the rest of us and you went straying. See it, take it in, breathe and let it go. That's the most loving thing you can do for all concerned.

I don't see your situation as having put you at risk for HIV. If it will help you to put an en end to this self-torture, then get tested and collect the inevitable negative result. And get on with your life.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 11:41:21 AM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2007, 11:48:56 AM »
Thanks guys.

You can probably tell I don't have much experience of using condoms since this was a one off experience outside my normally monogamous marital relationship. It certainly helps to hear input from people with more extensive experience. If I can convince myself I was covered, despite lack of full erection, then it will help me get through the next 6-12 weeks.

Andy, I will probably take a test for peace of mind and hopefully put this experience behind me for good.

Thanks again everyone.

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Re: help please
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2007, 01:20:13 PM »
Good. So that's your plan, John. I certainly expect you to come out of this ok.

Stay productively busy during the waiting period and the weeks can pass more quickly than you may imagine at this moment.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2007, 06:05:25 AM »
Guys,

Wanted to thank you all - the last few days have been much easier from an anxiety perspective since I have managed to believe that the condom I used hadn't slipped to expose the head of my penis. Thanks to all who commented.

Just one nagging doubt remains. The condom used for vaginal was previously in place when I was receiving a BJ. Is it possible there could have been some tiny tears from the lady's teeth. Also, if a condom burst with a fully erect penis I understand it's catastrophic but what happens if it bursts when the penis is not fully erect. Would you still know about it? Would it be obvious?

Appreciate your comments.

Johno.

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Re: help please
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2007, 08:50:51 AM »
Whether from a blowjob or from intercourse when a condom breaks it becomes quite clear what has happened. It's like having a hula hoop with a flapping skirt on your  johnson.

As for whether you were fully erect or not that is irrelevant. Even if you weren't totally hard the head of your penis would still be covered. And even IF she was HIV positive, no, HIV was not going to slip and slide down into the condom and manage to get into your urethra. Really.

It's time to give it up, John.
Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2007, 09:10:30 AM »
Thanks Andy.

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Re: help please
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2007, 05:57:11 AM »
I've seen a number of threads recently that talk of the increased risk of exposure to uncircumcised men during unprotected vaginal. In my case vaginal was protected however can someone explain (cuirious) the mechanism for transmission through the foreskin? Are vaginal fluids just absorbed into the membrane? If so how much would it take? Or would it take a significant cut in the foreskin?

Appreciate your responses

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Re: help please
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2007, 08:20:54 AM »
The inside of the foreskin has cells which are receptive to HIV transmission.

If you are uncircumcised this is irrelevant because the condom covered the head of your penis.

You need to give this a rest and get productively busy in your life on other matters. No kidding.
Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2007, 08:27:07 AM »
Thanks Andy. I hear where you're coming from however I have managed to calm myself, get into a routine and not think too much about this. I appreciate I was also covered by a condom but was interested to know how one could get infected via the foreskin if intercourse was unprotected.

Can you comment any further on the science of transmission via this route?

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Re: help please
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2007, 07:38:16 AM »
Can anybody offer any insight into the transmission via foreskin?

After being in a terrible state of panic for the first week after my incident I feel as though I have accepted that maybe I didn't have a risk after all. It almost feels wrong that I'm dismissing my circumstances so easily - probably because I don't feel very good about what I did. Previously I was adamant that I needed to test whereas now I'm having second thoughts.

The only thing that makes me feel I should test is the uncertainty  over whether I pose a risk to my partner. Anybody have any thoughts on this. Some of the previous comments stated no risk however I didn't feel it was as emphatic as I've seen in some of the other posts and this makes me think maybe there is still a small risk and that i should test.

Appreciate any further thoughts.

As always a big thank you to the experts for their time and patience. Certainly helping me to get through this.

Johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2007, 10:39:51 AM »
John, you being uncircumsized is totally irrelevant. You were wearing a condom. Your foreskin and urethra were completely covered. You weren't at risk for transmission.

I'm not willing to get into more conversation about phyisological matters since they don't matter in this case. Condoms do a very effective job of protection.

This is really all about head stuff, John. And if you can't let go of this concern then you are convincing me that you need to speak privately with a counselor or other such professional to deal with the emotional aspects of this incident.

Because this is NOT an HIV situation.

Really.
Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2007, 10:04:30 AM »
Just tested negative for Chlamydia and Gonnorhea which was good news.

Have my good days and bad days at the moment but trying to cope - main fear still related to how effective the condom was in my case. HIV test scheduled for 3 weeks time.

Did have a PM form a member by the name Brian Davis who claims to have been infected through a herpes wound 17 years ago and suggests I need to get tested. Anyone heard of this individual? Any comments? In my case I'm pretty sure the herpes wound on my mouth didn't come into contact with vaginal fluid or if it did only very briefly.

Johno

Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2007, 10:33:38 AM »
You didnt have a herpes sore come into contact with anything even considered remotely infectious.  As far as him being infected that way, who knows.  Its an anectdotal story from someone you dont know.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

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Re: help please
« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2007, 10:43:15 AM »
This PM has unnerved me a bit. I did have an oral herpes sore at the time and I don't think it came into contact with anything infectious. But I don't know for sure as I was drunk. If it did was it a risk? If not why not? Appreciate your thoughts.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2007, 10:48:22 AM »
SO let me get this straight.  Experts who are well versed in the subject of HIV transmission have repeatedly told you that you were not at risk in the incident you described and you ignore them.

Some guy who no one knows, tells you he tests positive from a herpes sore over 17 years ago and tells you that you should be very afraid AND YOU LISTEN TO HIM?

Does this sound even REMOTELY rational to you?


In spite of this irrationality, the MAIN reason you didnt get infected through your cold sore is that it wasnt in contact with any infectious fluids!  Even if you went DOWN on her your lips didnt make their way up to her cervix which is where the infectious fluid would be.  But please dont take our word for it, ask Brian and see what he thinks.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2007, 11:36:37 AM »
No it doesn't sound remotely rational however in this state of mind nothing is! Clearly I'm not trying to disrespect the opinions of the experts on this forum (although you seem a bit uptight on this) - quite the opposite infact. I was hoping that they would have had knowledge of this particluar person being a crank or something.

However what has helped me cope with my situation (whether or not it's significant to you it's very real for me at the moment) is understanding the detail behind why something isn't a risk hence the reason for my question. I previously had a worry over fingering and Ann's detailed response was very helpful and allowed me to put that particular fear to bed.

So now you are saying that there would be no risk for me from a cold sore (assuming I came into contact with vaginal fluid) since the fluid at the entrance to the vagina is not cervical. Correct? Let me ask one further question - does the cervical fluid not mix with the less infectious fluid in the vagina? Also, when various web based sources mention vaginal fluid being infectious why don't they specifically state vaginal fluid from the cervix. Sorry if I'm being pedantic - just want to understand the detail.

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Re: help please
« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2007, 11:39:08 AM »
I've also just spotted that the PM referred to infection through a genital herpes sore - which I assume is quite a different kettle of fish!

Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #53 on: April 02, 2007, 11:56:44 AM »
No it doesn't sound remotely rational however in this state of mind nothing is! Clearly I'm not trying to disrespect the opinions of the experts on this forum (although you seem a bit uptight on this) - quite the opposite infact. I was hoping that they would have had knowledge of this particluar person being a crank or something.

However what has helped me cope with my situation (whether or not it's significant to you it's very real for me at the moment) is understanding the detail behind why something isn't a risk hence the reason for my question. I previously had a worry over fingering and Ann's detailed response was very helpful and allowed me to put that particular fear to bed.

So now you are saying that there would be no risk for me from a cold sore (assuming I came into contact with vaginal fluid) since the fluid at the entrance to the vagina is not cervical. Correct? Let me ask one further question - does the cervical fluid not mix with the less infectious fluid in the vagina? Also, when various web based sources mention vaginal fluid being infectious why don't they specifically state vaginal fluid from the cervix. Sorry if I'm being pedantic - just want to understand the detail.

If I seem uptight about people continually ignoring the advice they "desperately ask for" I apologize it sometimes wears us down.  As far as why the other websites dont tell you its cervical, you'll have to ask THEM why they dont do something rather than ask us why they dont.  We arent mind readers.

  Well, it seems as if you enjoy the details which is good.  I suggest you do your own research as we have done rather than ask us what we think and then come back time and again with more questions, not necessarily TOTALLY related to your incident.  That being said, if their was a significant risk of aquiring HIV through cunnilingus the lesbian population would be decimated with this disease.  And we havent seen that have we?

And genital herpes is MUCH different that a cold sore.  For many reasons.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2007, 04:00:38 AM »
For the last couple of weeks I seem to have been coping reasonably well with my fears waiting out the time until my six week test - until the last 2 days that is! For some reason my fears have come back with a vengeance and it is possessing me from the time I wake until I go to sleep.

I've looked at the assessment from everyone and managed to accept the advice with the exception of the condom protected vaginal - mainly because I can't remember how well the condom was covering me. To recap, the condom was put on when I was particularly drunk and not very erect. I recall removing it after brief vaginal but don't remember looking to see how much protection it was offerring. I can't get it out of my head that somehow I will be unlucky.

Is there some online counseling I can refer to for help?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2007, 05:36:09 AM »
If the head of your penis was convered then you don't have anything to be concerned. Excessive drinking and sex don't mix.

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Re: help please
« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2007, 07:43:46 AM »
I have certainly learned a lesson the hard way regards alcohol & sex!

Given that I removed the condom after intercourse is anyone aware of circumstances whereby the head of my penis wouldn't be covered? Unfortunately I don't remember and this uncertainty is causing all the anxiety.

Is there an online website that offers counseling that might help me through the next 2 weeks? I am having a hellish time at the moment waiting for this.

Johno

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2007, 07:50:30 AM »
Johno,

Given that you had to remove the condom afterwards, it is safe to say that the head of your penis WAS covered. The only way it wouldn't have been is if you never put it on in the first place, or if it broke. If it broke, you WOULD have known.

You did the right thing and used a condom. It didn't break. You were protected against hiv and you do not need to test over this specific incident. You ONLY need to test if it is part of your yearly, routine sexual health care check up.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence. Keep using those condoms and you will avoid hiv infection.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2007, 08:28:47 AM »
Thanks Ann. Your comments as ever are reassuring.

I guess part of my anxiety is related to the fact that I was drunk at the time and don't remember anything clearly other than the lady putting a condom on (she actually changed it mid way through oral) and me taking it off. Anything could have happened in between. I'm also still fixated on the fact that the head of my penis was probably covered but the risk that  my uncircumcised foreskin was not.

Whilst I am trying to accept your no risk assessment I'm also facing the dilemna that until I know with certainty that I don't have HIV I can't have a normal intimate relationship with my wife again. For that reason I don't have any option but to test but I'm really struggling badly getting through each day.

Alcohol & sex definetely don't mix and it should be a strong message to other forum users.

Thanks again for your previous response - I really appreciate you taking the time to respond despite the previous answers.

Johno.

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2007, 10:18:55 AM »
Folks,

Really sorry to keep troubling you with questions. Still fixated on infection via foreskin in the event that the condom was not on correctly and exposed my foreskin. If this was the case is my risk much more significant? Been reading about the transmission risk of circumcised vs uncircumcised men and this is causing me lots of anxiety. Can anyone explain what circumstances would need to occur for transmission to occur given that the statistics say 1 time in 1000 for unprotected vaginal. Why does transmission not occur every time infected fluid comes into contact with the foreskin.

Appreciate if you can shed some light on this for me.

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2007, 12:45:39 PM »
Johno,

If the condom had slipped low enough for your foreskin to be exposed, it would have slipped off completely. (my partner is uncut, so I understand about foreskins) You used a condom, therefore you were not at risk for hiv infection.

This anxiety of yours is more about the fact that you had sex outside your marriage than it is about any real hiv risk. Deal with your guilt and forget about hiv.

Ann
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Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2007, 02:31:29 PM »
I'm really ashamed to say this however I had a similar incident about a year ago, also protected. Tested neg at 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 12 weeks and 19 weeks. However after the last test I was diagnosed with peripheral neuropathy in my right foot. Was treated with drugs and disappeared. Question is whether or not there could have been an error with the tests and this was due to HIV?

I know this probably sounds crazy but looking back it seems strange. Any comments?

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Re: help please
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2007, 03:08:24 PM »
I know that my current anxieties may be causing this new train of thought. However I just wondered whether I should have considered testing at 6 months in my previous situation to be absolutely sure of my status. Is it possible for some reason that I tested too early? Or can I be absolutely certain that HIV was not the cause.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2007, 03:12:00 PM »
In regards to the previous test it was 100% conclusive at 12weeks/3 months.  So no.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #64 on: April 10, 2007, 05:12:02 AM »
Thanks AC.

So one last question. When you talk about rare cases that take up to 6 months to seroconvert is this really limited to IV drug users and people who are immunosuppressed or could there also be other outliers (albeit rare)?

Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #65 on: April 10, 2007, 02:14:59 PM »
IV drug users and immunosupressed yes.  has not been a documented proven case of taking over 6 months that I can recall.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2007, 11:57:47 AM »
Folks,  sorry to be back again. I am having a real tough time with anxiety at the moment. Not sure if it's because I'm getting closer to my 6 week test.

I'm also still spending a lot of time worrying over the peripheral neuropathy diagnosis that occured after the first incident I mentioned in an earlier thread. AC mentioned that there has not been a documented proven case of seroconversion taking over 6 months that he can recall however I was 5 weeks away from 6 months when I had my last negative test. Is it possible that i could have been a rare case? Also, does the peripheral neuropathy sound similar to the type acquired when you have HIV - essentially I had nerve damage on the top left portion of my right food? If you touched the area then it felt numb but sharp pain in a very specific spot.

I've also been very anxious about my more recent exposure. In the last few days the muscle in my jaw has been very stiff and I've had a very bad muscle pain in my top left arm - almost as though someone has given me a dead arm. Could these be the muscle type pains described during ARS? Although I believed I removed a condom at the end of intercourse I'm now starting to doubt myself. I seem to recall at the time asking where I should discard the condom (there was a bin nearby). However I'm now wondering whether it came off during intercourse and possibly I was asking where to discard some tissue at the end of intercourse. I guess my mind is running away - I suppose my memory immediately afterwards would be more reliable at the time than 5 weeks after- right? I was also nervous enough to go back and find out what happened with the first woman since I couldn't remember whether there had been any unprotected incidents however was not as nervous about the second one. I guess this probably means my recollection of removing a condom during intercourse with the second lady was fairly accurate.

Sorry to keep rehashing my circumstances - i'm just despertae with worry at the moment and looking for any slivers of information that moght help calm me for the remaining time before my test.

Appreciate everyone's patience with me.

Johno

Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2007, 12:24:02 PM »
So let me get this straight.  You are thinking you have peripheral neuropathy cause by the HIV virus as well as a "dead arm" caused by the HIV virus.  But this virus that is wreaking havoc on your body is somehow sneaky enough to elude a test designed specifically to find it. 

COME ON.  You dont think that if the virus is tearing your body up that it would be undetectable do you?  It doesnt work that way.  And no your negative result isnt going to change.  But take another one anyway by all means.  Its your money.

SYMPTOMS MEAN NOTHING!  You know that.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2007, 01:11:58 PM »
No I'm not suggesting that I caught it twice from both instances. It would either be one or the other - but I'm worried whether either one could still pose a risk for me.

The first one happened over a year ago and I tested negative out to 19 weeks. The Peripheral Neuropathy started after my last test so i'm asking if it's possible I was a late seroconverter after this first incident i.e. before 6 months was up. I haven't had any further tests since. Assuming the negative test was really negative then that's great news. But I just wonder whether I could have been that rare case that seems to get discussed.

Assuming I was clear from this first incident leads me to worry about the second incident which just happened 5 weeks ago. Could the symptoms I'm experiencing now could be related to sercoconversion from this incident.


Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2007, 01:21:34 PM »
You cant catch HIV twice.  You have RELIABLY tested negative and do not need to test over the incident 5 weeks ago.

I sense you are quickly headed towards a time out if you continue.

You are NEGATIVE.  Move on.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2007, 01:42:29 PM »
I never implied that you could catch HIV twice - I'm worrying about these as two seperate occasions when I could have had a risk. I appreciate it's confusing since the earlier incident was only introduced later in the thread.

As far as a time out is concerned - for what? Asking questions that are real to me and obviously worrying me?


Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2007, 01:46:43 PM »
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2007, 02:15:28 PM »
Maybe I need to clarify the question.

First instance over a year ago - tested negative out to 19 weeks. Have heard that some people can seroconvert up until 24 weeks. Normally IV drug users, immunosuppressed individuals. Is it not possible for someone who doesn't fall into these categories. The Peripheral Neuropathy wasn't there when I tested negative - it happened afterwards hence the worry that I could have had a false negative.

Anyway, let's assume I didn't and fat forward to five weeks ago. My concern is that if I wasn't wearing a condom at the end of intercourse as i originally thought then there was potential for exposure. I was therefore asking if the dead arm and stiff jaw could relate to seroconversion?

If asking these questions justifies a timeout then so be it.

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2007, 02:24:01 PM »
Johno,

You tested reliably hiv negative for your first incident.

For your second incident, you wore a condom. Condoms protect against hiv. Even if you lost the condom, it would be unusual for you to end up testing positive. You're letting your imagination run away with you.

The muscle aches during seroconversion, if they happen at all, are like the ones you get during a bad case of flu. Your aching jaw is probably cause by you clenching it in your anxiety. Dead arm? Muscle tension caused, again, by anxiety. If you doubt what I say, go see your doctor about it.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #74 on: April 13, 2007, 02:30:07 PM »
Thanks Ann.

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2007, 06:28:01 AM »
Ann,

Your response helped to calm me last night. However I'm still concerned about the first incident having read that Guillain Barre syndrome which is a form of neuropathy can occur during seroconversion and delay the time to a positive result. in the articles that I looked at it seemed that seroconversion was taking place several months (5 and 6 months) after exposure due to this condition. Question therefore is can i really be sure of my negative result at 19 weeks given that I had neuropathy in my right foot diagnosed by a doctor some weeks after my last negative test? Should I have another test to be conclusive? Are there any particular characteristics of neuropathy during seroconversion that relate specifically to HIV?

Incidentally i still have mild numbness in my foot at the moment even after treatment 6 months ago.

Thanks for any feedback you can give.

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Re: help please
« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2007, 09:06:40 AM »
Johno,

Test all you like - just don't be surprised when your tests keep coming back hiv negative.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

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Re: help please
« Reply #77 on: April 14, 2007, 09:27:17 AM »
Thanks Ann.

Are you aware of any medical evidence that links having peripheral neuropathy with delayed seroconversion?

Johno

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #78 on: April 14, 2007, 09:37:22 AM »
Peripheral Neuropathy, will not lengthen the window time.

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Re: help please
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2007, 10:23:49 AM »
How common are the symptoms detailed in the article by jersey_guy? This sounds similar to the pain that I'm currently experiencing in my arm which started about 3 weeks after the last incident.

Freaking out again after seeing this!

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Re: help please
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2007, 12:56:06 PM »
Johno,

How about staying off the internet so you don't scare yourself silly with stuff that has nothing to do with you? You didn't have a risk. You got a blowjob and had a few moments of protected vaginal. No risk.

Go see your doctor about your muscular pains. It's nothing to do with hiv. While you're there, I'd recommend asking your doctor for a referral to a counseling agency so you can begin to deal with your state of high anxiety.

You are very close to earning a time out. If you'd read the Welcome thread, you will have read this:

Quote
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Please consider yourself warned. I'm not going to warn you twice.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

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Re: help please
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2007, 02:19:18 PM »
Apologies Ann - I'm certainly not looking for a timeout. If I'm still having these anxiety issues after my 6 week test I'll definetely seek counselling.

If I could only believe that the intercourse was definetely protected I'd be able to deal better with my fears. Shortly after the incident I definetely recall a condom being put on for the oral and I thought I recalled taking it off afterwards. However now 5 weeks later I'm not so sure - I still recall the conodm being put on for oral but worry that the condom came of immediately since I wasn't erect - hence it would not have been protected. That's what's really eating at me.

Please don't give me a timeout - I'll try my damndest not to post further.

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Re: help please
« Reply #82 on: April 18, 2007, 02:39:01 PM »
Folks,

I need some help as I feel I'm going into meltdown! I know I said I wouldn't post but really need some words of re-assurance even at the risk of getting banned.

I'm having to go on the assumption that the vaginal intercourse mentioned in earlier posts wasn't protected, despite earlier comments, since I really can't remember for sure. I also know that you tell everyone symptoms mean nothing however it's difficult to accept that when you're having them!

On Monday at 35 days I had what I think was a rash around my neck with some isolated trunk spots. Today at day 37 I feel a scratchy sore throat (no fever, swollen lymph nodes, etc) and for short period's feel shaky, hot and a little bit nauseaus. I know symptoms themselves can be varied however would symptoms come on at once if there were symptoms or could they be spaced by 1 or 2 days? Also, how is the timing for ARS symptoms?

Please, please give me some feedback. I'm really struggling with this at the moment.

Thanks, johno

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #83 on: April 18, 2007, 02:45:05 PM »
They all come at once and they leave in the same fashion.

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Re: help please
« Reply #84 on: April 18, 2007, 02:55:09 PM »
Thanks Rapid.

What about the timing - would 35 days for the beginning of symptoms be realistic?

Johno

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #85 on: April 18, 2007, 03:08:26 PM »
NO!

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #86 on: April 18, 2007, 04:33:02 PM »
Thanks for the fast response.

Rapid, Ann, Andy,

Can I take particular reassurance from the lack of fever? I feel as though I have flu symptoms but can't differentiate from a panic attack. Feel really shaky, light headed and hot for an hour or so and then back to normal. I'm absolutely petrified that I may be experiencing ARS.

Johno

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #87 on: April 18, 2007, 05:46:11 PM »
Good grief. You were never at risk. Symptoms or lack of is no way to diagnosis HIV. You did not have a risk and you don't need to test. Now move on already.

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Re: help please
« Reply #88 on: April 18, 2007, 06:05:16 PM »
Rapid,

I'm sorry if I'm trying your patience - I really appreciate the service you guys provide and can understand your frustration with my repeated questioning.

I also realise that my risk was close to non existent if a condom was used. If I could be sure of that I wouldn't be anywhere near as fearful as I currently am. However you said yourself that alcohol and sex don't mix and that's exactly why I can not be sure that I was protected - I certainly had a condom on at the start but can't be sure it was there at the end despite earlier comments. That being the case I would have had a risk - correct?

Hence my fear with the symptoms I'm currently having. I feel perfectly OK at this point in time but periodically through the day (also yesterday) feel hot, trembling, nauseous and scratchy throat. Normally the feeling lasts a few hours.

Symptoms mean nothing but because I'm experiencing then, as well as real fear, I'm just looking for anything to latch onto that will give me hope for a negative test. Hence the question about whether absence of fever should provide significant reassurance?

Johno

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #89 on: April 18, 2007, 06:41:58 PM »
Johno,

Symptoms, or even the lack of symptoms means nothing when it comes to hiv infection. We would be remiss if we told you that the lack of fever means a person is not infected.

However, you are letting your imagination run away with you. What happened to you not posting? A time out is still on the cards for you.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2007, 06:48:18 PM »
Ann,

Please believe me when I say that I have tried very hard not to post - I'd rather not be here either! However i had nowhere else to turn and as someone who is normally very healthy these symptoms are very disconcerting for me. Most of the symptoms I could put down to anxiety - but the sore throat has really pushed me over the edge.

Johno

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2007, 07:09:32 PM »
Johno,

Stress is a more likely cause of your sore thoat than hiv. Yes, stress CAN cause a sore throat.

Now get off the internet and stop feeding your stress.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Tested today
« Reply #92 on: April 23, 2007, 06:29:25 AM »
Ann, Andy,

Appreciate your input on this.

Tested today at 6 weeks given the uncertainty over whether condom was in place for vaginal intercourse. Get results tomorrow - extremely nervous!

I know 6 weeks is not conclusive however wondered whether the symptoms I was experiencing last week could have a bearing on my results?

To recap on symptoms:

Day 34 Localised rash on one side of my neck and isolated spots on my chest. Lasted for 2 days.

Day 36 Scratchy throat - lasted few hours then improved. Came back on Day 37 with similar effect. Gone now.

Day 37 Headache - lasted 2 days

Throughout the week I also had periods of trembling, feeling nauseaous, and hot (although no fever) - typically lasted for 1-2 hours.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #93 on: April 23, 2007, 06:48:51 AM »
johno, I don't know what your problems are but it is unrelated to HIV. If you can not get over your unwarranted worries then you will need to find a professional that can work with you. You never had a risk and it doesn't matter how many symptoms that you want to add to each post. You didn't have a risk, period....

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Re: help please
« Reply #94 on: April 23, 2007, 06:53:01 AM »
Rapid,

Totally understand what you're saying if a condom was in place. But given that I can't recall with certainty surely if there wasn't a condom then that would constitute a risk?

Johno

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #95 on: April 23, 2007, 07:49:48 AM »
Johno,

It seems to me that the ONLY reason you are questioning the condom use - which you seemed pretty sure of when you first arrived here - is because of your symptoms.

Symptoms or even the lack of symptoms mean nothing and not only that, what you have experienced isn't even consistent with primary hiv symptoms. They don't come in drips and drabs, the come on all at once and go all at once, when they come at all.

I'm fully expecting your six week test to be negative and you should too.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #96 on: April 23, 2007, 08:11:13 AM »
Thanks Ann - I'm really praying that you're right.

Johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2007, 06:02:08 AM »
Ann,

Should get my result this afternoon - waiting anxiously.

However I wanted to pre-empt by asking a question on testing. I know that 6 weeks is not definitive but a reasonable indication of someone's status if the test is negative. My question is whether it would show positive if the symptoms I was experiencing last week were in fact due to primary HIV infection or whether it is too soon afterwards.

Assuming my test this afternoon were to be negative I want to be able to forget about HIV until a final test at 3 months hence the reason for the question.

Johno

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2007, 07:48:25 AM »
Johno,

As you've been repeatedly told, you didn't have a risk.

And yes, if the symptoms you experienced had anything to do with seroconversion, your test would likely be positive. But that ain't gonna happen, is it.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Test results
« Reply #99 on: April 24, 2007, 09:29:40 AM »
Folks,

Just had my 6 week (1 day short) result back and it was negative - just as you all told me it would be! I'd really like to thank everyone for their patience and support over the last 6 weeks - it has been absolutely invaluable to me. You are a fantatstic bunch!

I'm not considering myself out of the woods yet on the off chance that the condom did come off and will test at 3 months. However I guess this is a good step forward.

Johno.

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #100 on: April 26, 2007, 04:58:03 AM »
Does anyone know which HIV test is used by UK GUM clinics - I had an accelerated test where the results are given back the next day.

As you can probably tell my 6 weeks test hasn't completely cleared my concern - probably because I can't get the symptoms from the week before out of my mind. i guess I'm still concerned that they were too close to the test.

Thanks, Johno

Offline fred

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Re: help please
« Reply #101 on: April 26, 2007, 10:15:16 AM »
It depends on the Health Authority, but, from my experience, they test your sampe 3 times.
2 * HIV 1+2 Antibody Assays (different manufacturers)
1 * p24 stand alone Assay

The fact that you got your result the next day is irrelevant to it's accuracy.

Most of these Assays take between 1 and 3 hours to run, and they tend to be run in batches, often overnight.

Fred.

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #102 on: April 27, 2007, 03:14:50 PM »
Folks,

Sorry to be back posting again. Unfortunately my six week (41 days) negative test hasn't given me much comfort.

My main issue is still thinking about the symptoms I had at the start of week five (34 days) - assuming they were ARS related due to my condom coming off. Starting having them again today - weak, shaky hands and legs, slightly nauseous, warm (no fever) and tingly/itchy skin. Can't see a rash except on my neck (may be shaving).

I've had various responses from different sources regards whether the six week test would have picked up antibodies had these symptoms been due to primary HIV but can't seem to get a definitive answer. Ann said it would likely be positive, THT said it would be and National AIDS Helpline were very aggressive and said nothing would show until 12 weeks period.

Can anyone recommend a source that might help clear this up for me?

I'd really like to get some relief from this constant anxiety.

Thanks Johno.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #103 on: April 27, 2007, 03:18:42 PM »
Staying off the internet and you can find the phone numbers to professional mental health clinics, in the phone book.

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #104 on: April 27, 2007, 03:44:35 PM »
Rapid, I accept that some counselling is probably required at this point.

Can you comment on whether the test would pick up antibodies a week or less after potential symptoms?

Thanks, Johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #105 on: April 28, 2007, 06:28:33 AM »
Can anybody comment on testing practise in UK sexual health clinics? The private sites market the fact that GUM clinics are not suing the latest technology (DUO) and hence the reason it takes 3 months. My reassurance about a 6 week test being highly indicative may be based on US practise. That being the case would the test would pick up antibodies a week or less after potential symptoms?

Johno

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #106 on: April 28, 2007, 06:36:47 AM »
Johno,

The vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test postive by six weeks no matter what test is used. GUM clinics DO use up to date testing technology. It might not be THE LATEST test kit to come down the pike, but they are accurate nonetheless.

The only difference with the DUO test is the fact that it is an ELISA bundled with a p24 test. (duo = two) The p24 test is only useful in the first three weeks of infection. Those sites are using people's ignorance about testing to make money. 

You didn't have a risk - you are hiv negative.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #107 on: April 28, 2007, 06:44:31 AM »
Thanks Ann - I suspected you would be pretty current on this topic in the UK.

Would the test normally pick up antibodies a week or less after potential symptoms? When I asked this before you said it "likely" would - again does this depend on the test? What has been confusing me is that some people say antibodies would appear concurrent with symptoms and others say antibodies come 1-2 weeks after. Not sure which to believe.

Thanks once again for your patience with answering - I realise I've come close to a timeout! I'm going to seek counselling since I still have 5 weeks to go before my next test and I'm already struggling.

Johno

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2007, 06:49:44 AM »
Johno,

Yes, you are very close to a time out!

The illness that sometimes happens is not a direct result of hiv. It is the result of the process the body goes through when making antibodies. Certain chemicals are released by the body which in turn may cause fever and muscular aches - in other words, flu-like symptoms. People who have actually been infected and test a few days after the onset of symptoms will usually test indeterminate, if not full positive.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #109 on: May 04, 2007, 12:30:54 PM »
Folks,

Hope you can answer this for me. Today (52 days after exposure) I've started having a bad cold/flu however I'm really freaked by the fact that I have angular cheilitis! I've read this can be a strong indicator to primary hiv infection. Is this true - can anyone comment please?

Johno

Offline ACinKC

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Re: help please
« Reply #110 on: May 04, 2007, 12:35:58 PM »
OMG.  You have CHAPPED LIPS and you think that is a symptom of HIV.... PLEASE!

It is NO indicator of HIV.  But please let me tell you what it is.  (since you made me look it up to respond)

Angular cheilitis (also called perlčche, cheilosis or angular stomatitis) is an inflammatory lesion at the labial commissure, or corner of the mouth, and often occurs bilaterally. The condition manifests as deep cracks or splits. In severe cases, the splits can bleed when the mouth is opened and shallow ulcers or a crust may form.

Studies have linked the initial onset with nutritional deficiencies, namely vitamin B (Riboflavin B2 and Cyanocobalamin B12) and iron deficiency anemia, which in turn may be evidence of poor diets or malnutrition (e.g. celiac disease).

And finally let me cure it for you....

For more sever angular cheilitis, depending on the cause, antifungal and antibiotic medication (e.g. topical miconazole oral gel that has dual activity), vitamins supplements, and dentures for a person without teeth can abate the symptoms.

Stop with this stuff... JEEZ.


LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Online Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #111 on: May 04, 2007, 12:36:28 PM »
NO! That is absolutely not an HIV-specific occurence. You are one question closer to a time out.

With your six week negative in hand it's way past time for you to call a halt, John.

You need to work on getting productively busy in your life, no kidding. And obsessing on this issue is not the way to do that. Stop with the what ifs and get on with your life.
Andy Velez

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Re: help please
« Reply #112 on: May 04, 2007, 01:06:20 PM »
OK - really sorry to wind everyone up.

Just when I think I'm getting some peace something comes along to disturb it.

Thanks for the responses.

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Re: help please
« Reply #113 on: May 24, 2007, 05:44:37 PM »
Just wanted to provide an update on my situation.

Even although I had a negative ELISA after 41 days I have suffered the worst anxiety of my life since then due to various sporadic symptoms I was attributing to ARS. Couldn't wait any longer and decided to have 10 week INSTI HIV1/2 rapid test. It was negative!

I still have a GUM clinic appointment at 12 weeks. I'm hoping the concensus is that my result is unlikely to change?

Johno

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #114 on: May 25, 2007, 04:13:46 AM »
johno,

Of course your result isn't likely to change. You didn't have a risk in the first place!

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline enm1sg

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Re: help please
« Reply #115 on: May 31, 2007, 08:49:17 AM »
John ,

Can you remind your latest result and symptom , as I also having same ARS symptom similar to you with diffrent type rashes all over body even after 9 week after exposure but without feaver .

Offline RapidRod

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Re: help please
« Reply #116 on: May 31, 2007, 08:57:28 AM »
enm1sg, do not post in any other threads other than your own. If you have questions or concerns post them in your orginal thread. Please read the posting guidelines found in the "Welcome" thread. 

Offline johno

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Re: help please
« Reply #117 on: October 15, 2008, 10:46:12 AM »
Was last here over a year ago. Original situation was vaginal with CSW and don't remember whether a condom was worn due to being drunk. Had HIV tests at 4, 10 and 12 weeks all negative. Everything was fine until 3 weeks ago when I discovered 2 swollen lymph nodes on my right arm. I've seen the doctor who currently has no explanation for this but wants me now to have a CBC. I have been in good health prior to this

Initially I wasn't worried about HIV given my 12 week test which I thought was definitive however I've noticed some sites are recommending a 6 month test to be absolutely sure. Is this new advice - the sites seemed to be updated fairly recently.

i am also petrified I've put my wife at risk. I was truly ashamed of my behaviour and thought I'd managed to put all this behind me until now.

Are you aware of any revised guidelines and should I test again?

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: help please
« Reply #118 on: October 15, 2008, 11:04:22 AM »


   Nope it has not changed much like your HIV negative status.  You really should seek mental help from a professional.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Ann

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Re: help please
« Reply #119 on: October 15, 2008, 12:45:28 PM »
johno,

The six month advice is woefully outdated. The window period is three months and that means you are conclusively hiv negative.

There are hundreds of things that can cause lymph nodes to swell. Keep working with your doctor to find out what is the cause of yours. Whatever it is, it isn't hiv.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

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  • Posts: 63
Re: help please
« Reply #120 on: October 27, 2008, 03:19:36 PM »
Ann,

One last question I have related to Autoimmune Diseases - I have rheumatoid arthritis. Could this have delayed seroconversion and led to an innacurate result in my case? I'm asking as I still haven't resolved my lymph node issues despite continuing to visit my doctor. I don't want to have a discussion with him on HIV as it would appear in my medical record. I didn't sleep last night at all and this is really doing my head in.

I know that based on early posts everyone probably thinks I didn't have a risk as I said I was wearing a condom. Unfortunately I can't confirm this with any certainty and my fear is that it was an unprotected encounter thereby posing a risk.

Is it possible that I could be one of the rare cases because of an autoimmune disorder?


Offline RapidRod

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  • Posts: 15,288
Re: help please
« Reply #121 on: October 27, 2008, 05:08:46 PM »
No it's not possible. What is possible, is that you will get the T.O. that you have been warned about.

Offline Ann

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  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: help please
« Reply #122 on: October 28, 2008, 05:11:14 AM »
John,

Autoimmune diseases sometimes cause false positive results. They do not extend the window period.

You're hiv negative, end of story. If you can't bring yourself to believe us, why don't you just go test again and collect another negative result? Because that's EXACTLY what you'll get; another negative. You don't have hiv.

Keep posting over this conclusive negative and you'll be given a time out.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline johno

  • Member
  • Posts: 63
Re: help please
« Reply #123 on: October 28, 2008, 03:15:06 PM »
Ann

Thanks for your response. I will cease posting so no need for the T.O.

I saw my GP today and he indicated that I had shotty axillary nodes. Still no suggested cause so he has performed a CBC and some plasma test that I haven't heard of before.

Hope to get to the bottom of this as it's quite disconcerting and may have another HIV test as you suggest to ease my mind.






 


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