Author Topic: Could the impossible have happened (Read 12555 times)

menem · « **on:** January 24, 2009, 01:14:15 pm »

Hi Guys,

First off let me say how excellent this forum is and how helpful your advice is to a lot of folks. I'm sure that if it wasn't for the rational advice given on this forum, a lot of people might worry themselves into doing rash things.

I'm a 40sish maile. My issue started when I wandered into a booth in an adult bookstore. I ended up performing very brief and light fellatio on another male primarily involving just the head of his penis. There was no precum that I could tell. The individual suddenly removed his penis and masturbated himself to ejaculation. He proceeded to wipe himself with a kleenex, while I masturbated, then reached over and began to masturbate me. I have to assume he might have had sperm on his hand when he did this. I quickly removed his hand, masturbated myself to orgasm and left. At home I washed my penis carefully and ensured that I urinated to clean out my urethra.

A week to the day I was driving home and I noticed one of my testicles was tender. I checked myself in a mirror and noticed that my right testicle was pulled up higher than thether, typical of an STD infection of some kind. It seems to have passed this morning. I plan to get a chlamyydia/gono test anyways. I can't understand how I could have contracted anything as nothing from this guy went near my urethra but now I'm thinking that if this turns out to be an std like chlamydia, which I thought was fairly impossible to contract given the things I did, is it possible I could have been exposed to HIV as well.

I am in a monogamous relationship and would rather die than infect my wife with HIV. I wasn't planning to get tested as I still believe that I was at absolutely 0 risk for HIV but have irrational concerns now. Could you help me out with some advice.

RapidRod · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2009, 01:17:29 pm »

At no time were you at risk of contracting HIV from receiving a blowjob or from masturbation.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2009, 01:34:16 pm »

Quote from: menem on January 24, 2009, 01:14:15 pm

Hi Guys,

First off let me say how excellent this forum is and how helpful your advice is to a lot of folks. I'm sure that if it wasn't for the rational advice given on this forum, a lot of people might worry themselves into doing rash things.

I'm a 40sish maile. My issue started when I wandered into a booth in an adult bookstore. I ended up performing very brief and light fellatio on another male primarily involving just the head of his penis. There was no precum that I could tell. The individual suddenly removed his penis and masturbated himself to ejaculation. He proceeded to wipe himself with a kleenex, while I masturbated, then reached over and began to masturbate me. I have to assume he might have had sperm on his hand when he did this. I quickly removed his hand, masturbated myself to orgasm and left. At home I washed my penis carefully and ensured that I urinated to clean out my urethra.

A week to the day I was driving home and I noticed one of my testicles was tender. I checked myself in a mirror and noticed that my right testicle was pulled up higher than thether, typical of an STD infection of some kind. It seems to have passed this morning. I plan to get a chlamyydia/gono test anyways. I can't understand how I could have contracted anything as nothing from this guy went near my urethra but now I'm thinking that if this turns out to be an std like chlamydia, which I thought was fairly impossible to contract given the things I did, is it possible I could have been exposed to HIV as well.

I am in a monogamous relationship and would rather die than infect my wife with HIV. I wasn't planning to get tested as I still believe that I was at absolutely 0 risk for HIV but have irrational concerns now. Could you help me out with some advice.

You are worrying unnecessarily about HIV. Nothing you did put you at risk for HIV transmission. You need to stop practicing medicine on yourself without a license. It's bad for your health. One testicle higher than the other? In my experience that is a not uncommon occurence and has nothing to do with any STDs. The most common is for the left to be somewhat lower than the right, but not with all guys.

Go ahead and check with your doctor about STDs if you feel you must. It seems to me what you do have is a gigantic case of guilt and remorse because you did some straying. You did what you did. You can't undo it and it's no evidence of higher character on your part or a love tribute to your wife for you to torture yourself about it. Breathe, let it go and get on with your life.

I don't see any cause for concern in what you're reporting that warrants testing for HIV. No risk. Period.

menem · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2009, 04:17:28 pm »

Sorry, I didn't mention that it wasn't just the testicle being raised but it was also very tender with a pain on that side of the sac running up, a bit like the afterglow of being kicked in the nuts. This is what startled me a bit since it was a week to the day and got me into panicking about an STD. Its gone now but if it returns I'll go in for an STD test for the basic clap types but not HIV as I agree that there was no way I could have been at risk.

For anyone else who partakes of some spontaneous action that you think is totally safe ,be it a blowjob, handjob or whatever, my advice is use a condom. Just gives so much more peace of mind.

Thanks again for the responses.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2009, 06:15:43 pm »

It's always good to check out troublesome symptoms with your doctor. Too many who are unnecessarily worried about HIV unfortunately and mistakenly automatically assume any symptom means HIV. It doesn't.

Good luck to you.

menem · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2009, 08:45:38 pm »

For an update, I've decided to get tested for the usual STIs (chlamydia, gono, herpes, syphillus) as I've been advised that any mouth to penis contact, however brief, is a risk for these STIs. I wasn't planning to get an HIV test based on your advice however I'm a bit confused now as this CDC study below claims the risk of oral transmission is a lot higher than near zero but more like 8%. That is pretty alarming if it is true.

I will consult with the clinic doctor as well regarding my exposure. If I do decide to proceed with testing, it will have been about 3 weeks this Fri so would you recommend the Oraquick test or the ELISA. I have a skin condition (psoriasis) which is a type of autoimmune disorder. Would that be a factor in selecting a test.?

=======
Many persons have inquired about the results of a study presented as a poster at the recent 7th National Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections, held January 30-February 2. The following questions and answers contain more specific information about the presented study results.

Question: What is this study about?

Answer : This study, one component of a primary and recent HIV infection study called the Options Project, is funded by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) at the University of California, San Francisco. The purpose of this particular study was to ascertain the extent of HIV transmitted by oral sex among men who have sex with men who were identified with HIV within 12 months of becoming infected.

Question: Hasn't oral sex already been identified as a method of transmitting HIV?

Answer : Yes. However, this is the most definitive study to date. Earlier studies have been published. (See a bibliography at the end of these questions/answers.)

Question: What is the risk of HIV transmission from oral sex?

Answer : The likelihood of transmission of HIV from an infected person to an uninfected person varies significantly depending on the type of exposure or contact involved. The risk of becoming infected with HIV through unprotected (without a condom) oral sex is lower than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex. However, even a lower risk activity can become an important way people get infected if it is done often enough. The Options Project found that 7.8% (8 of 102) of recently infected men who have sex with men in San Francisco were probably infected through oral sex. Most of these men believed that the risk was minimal or non-existent.

Question: What are the exact ways that HIV was transmitted in this study?

Answer : Nearly half (3 of

of these cases reported oral problems, including occasional bleeding gums. Almost all (7 of

of these men reported to have had oral contact with pre-semen or semen.

Question: How do you know if the study participants were telling the truth about their sexual history?

Answer : Oral transmission of HIV is very difficult to single out as the only way that HIV is transmitted because few people engage exclusively in oral sex. A number of specific questions were asked by a trained evaluator. The participants’ risk behaviors were assessed by using clinical interviews, counselor intervention, epidemiologic interview, partner interview when possible, and final disposition of transmission risk. Of the 8 cases, 4 reported protected anal intercourse, without the condom breaking, with persons who were either HIV infected or had an unknown serostatus. Men in this study who reported that they were uncertain if the condom was used properly were eliminated from this study.

Question: Was this a surprise finding?

Answer : Yes and No. The risk of oral sex transmission (8%) in this study is higher than many researchers had previously thought or found in other studies. More media attention appeared to be placed on this particular study, probably because of the higher number of study participants. There appears to be evidence that higher risk activities (anal sex) among men who have sex with men is decreasing while lower risk activities (oral sex) among these men is increasing. Oral sex has always been considered a lower risk activity but is certainly not risk free.

Question: What can be done to prevent HIV?

Answer : The study results emphasize that any type of sexual activity with an infected person is a risk of HIV transmission. Oral sex with someone who is infected with HIV is certainly not risk free. Prevention of HIV is more important than ever. Some persons have indicated that they are less concerned about HIV because of new treatments and are being less careful. This study presents a wake-up call to everyone -- that HIV is far from over and remains a serious, lifelong disease that is best to prevent. CDC’s recommendations on how to prevent sexual transmission of HIV remain the same. Protection requires abstaining from sexual activity or taking precautions with all types of intercourse -- either having sex with only one uninfected partner, using condoms for sexual intercourse and oral sex, and using lower risk activities such as mutual masturbation.

Question: Where can I get more information about transmission and prevention of HIV?

Answer : CDC operates a toll-free, confidential National STD/AIDS Hotline which can assist callers with these types of concerns. The English service (24 hours a day, 7 days a week) can be reached by calling 1.800.232.4636 (English, Spanish and TTY).

Bibliography:

Berrey M, Shea T. Oral sex HIV transmission (letter). J AIDS 1997; 475.

Bratt GA, Berglund T, Glantzberg BL, Albert J, Sandstrom E. Two cases of oral to genital HIV-1 transmission. Intl J STD & AIDS 1997; 8:522-525.

Clifford L. HIV seroconversion and oral intercourse. AJPH 1991;81:698.

Edwards SK, White C. HIV seroconversion illness after orogenital contact with successful contact tracing. Intl J STD & AIDS 1995; 6:50-51

Keet PM, Albrecht Van Lent IV, Sandfort TG, Coutinho RA, Van Griensven GJ. Orogenital sex and the transmission of HIV among homosexual men. AIDS 1992;6:223-226.

(9 cases in a cohort of 102)

Lifson AR, O’Malley PM, Hessol NA, Buchbinder SP, Cannon L, Rutherford GW. HIV seroconversion in two homosexual mean after receptive oral intercourse with ejaculation. AJPH 1991;80:1509-1510.

Quarto C, Germinario C, Troiano T, Fontana A, Barbuti S. HIV transmission by fellatio (letter). Europ J Epidemiol 1990;9:339-340

(heterosexual female to male oral transmission)

Robinson ED, Evans BGl. Oral sex and HIV transmission. AIDS 1999;16(6):737-8.

Schacker T, Collier AC, Hughes J, Shea T, Corey L. Clinical and epidemiologic features of primary HIV infection. Ann Intern Med 1996;125:256-264.

(4 cases in a cohort of 46 reported only oral risk)

Spitzer P, Weiner NJ. Transmission of HIV infection from a woman to a man by oral sex (letter). N Engl J Med 1989;320:251.

DR

RapidRod · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2009, 09:05:38 pm »

At no time were you at risk of contracting HIV.

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2009, 09:33:13 pm »

You're wasting resources and your money. You didn't have a risk and there's no need for testing, no matter how many references you dump into this thread.

Either test you choose is ok and totally unnecessary. And no, having psoriasis will not in anyway affect either test or make one or the other a better choice.

You didn't have a risk and yours is not an HIV situation. Period.

Ann · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2009, 06:51:45 am »

menem,

If you're going to cut and paste stuff from other websites, please make sure it's up to date. The blurb you posted here is from the year 2000 - and we've had more reliable and informative study results since then. The study they're talking about was based on patient report, which is notoriously unreliable.

Since then, there have been three long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

The very brief blowjob you gave is not a concern for hiv infection.

Ann

menem · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2009, 08:18:05 pm »

Just to give an update to the forum, I did go to a public health clinic and described my exposure. They recommended only a throat swab test and urine test for the typical clap infections. HIV infection from giving a blowjob without ejaculation was not considered serious and they didn't advise a test, so I didn't test for it. The professionals here validated everything said by Ann, RapidRod and Andy regarding HIV and my specific exposure. The clap tests came back negative. So given the facts that I didn't pick up a regular STD and these STDs are much easier to get than HIV; and the science in multiple studies shows giving oral WITH ejaculation hasn't resulted in transmission which puts me in an even lower risk category (effectively zero), so I feel a bit silly posting in the first place. Unfortunately what set me off was exactly 5 days after the incident, I had a sharp pain in one of my balls and what felt like a swollen gland on my left groin side whih lasted a week. A week later I developed a laryngitis type throat thing which was obviously viral and was probably the cause of the discomfort I had in my groin. Objectively it wasn't ARS but it was enough to panic me.

There is a pile of inaccurate information on the web that feeds your panic including misinterpretations of the study I previously posted. Ann definitely corrected that and RapidRod also posted detailed information in another thread. I learned a lot from this experience, especially the ease with which HIV can be transmitted via intercourse i.e. one time is all it takes. Wow, it's totally changed my awareness of STDs and condom use. I'll be sure to inform everyone I know that unless both have had a full STD panel, condoms are mandatory and best for all activities if you want to save yourself the worry.

Cheers

Andy Velez · « **Reply #10 on:** March 21, 2009, 08:44:46 am »

That's very good that you're aware of the effectiveness of condoms for intercourse and hopefully committed to consistently using them. They do the job for both vaginal and anal intercourse. Using them is how the infection rate can really be cut down and help to begin to end the epidemic.

Cheers.

menem · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2009, 01:01:41 pm »

I have another situation that has come up. I decided to engage only in safe activities. While receiving a handjob (safe) from another male, he unexpectedly bent down and put the head of my penis in his mouth. I stopped him immediately but we continued the mutual handjob. This and my last "brief" giving fellatio episode are my only two possible exposures. About 13 days after this incident I experienced a burning sensation and reddenning on the side and the rim of my penis which I thought was Herpes but didn't blister, just burned and was irritating. This more-or-less went away after 4 days of using an anti fungal cream. I scanned the insite web site http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=kb-00&doc=kb-05-02-03 and they have a reference to candidiasis being "Presenting months or years before more severe opportunistic illnesses, OPC may be a sentinel event indicating the presence or progression of HIV disease". The description of the symptoms match pretty well though I've had nothing in my mouth. I'm not looking to find HIV onset symptoms but I've never ever had anything like this before and it seems to me that something is pulling down my immune system. Is this in the realm of anything you see for opportunistic HIV onset candidiasis or is that typically more serious. What should I do HIV-wise?

Andy Velez · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2009, 01:15:47 pm »

You don't seem to transfer knowledge you have received from one situation to another. Once again nothing you are reporting has put you at risk for HIV transmission. You ought to know that by now.

Your symptoms have nothing to do with HIV. If they persist you should discuss them with your doctor. We only deal with HIV here.

There's no need for testing and you don't have to do anything "HIV-wise."

Get on with your life. Really.

menem · « **Reply #13 on:** November 30, 2009, 06:53:44 pm »

Hi,

I have only had 2 encounters since my last post, both were strictly oral and totally protected using condoms for both giving and recieving. The last was on Fri. After giving oral, I removed the condom and brought him off with my hand. Some ejaculate contacted my knuckle where I have a cut that was scabbed over at the time. I washed it off pretty well immediately with soap and water anyway. This morning I noticed a small skin break on the top of my index finger on the same hand, its small about the size of two pencil points, might not even have been there at the time but both abrasions have me wondering. The guy had a fixed address and I specifically asked him beforehand if he has any STIs.

I woke up with a flu feeling this morning, kinda feverish and felt off for the rest of the day which has me a little worried. Of course it could be the flu. What's the risk of this incident? Can you give me an idea of what the science says about these types of cum-on-cut incidents. Do I need to get tested for this?

RapidRod · « **Reply #14 on:** November 30, 2009, 07:10:10 pm »

You did not have a risk of contracting HIV.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2009, 08:48:54 pm »

If you had really read anything that has been said to you previously and then transferred that information to you current situation you would know the answer to your question.

We're not here to hold your hand everytime you have another sexual experience.

This latest was no risk and if you continue to come back with this sort of thing you are very quickly going to find your getting a 28 day Time Out. Consider yourself warned.

menem · « **Reply #16 on:** November 30, 2009, 09:30:21 pm »

Sorry Andy, I didn't mean to anger you folks by asking but I just trust your advice over anyone else. You guys do an incredible job on this site. My previous questions were about oral which I've got no issues with now (thanks to you guys) but I really wasn't sure about the cut thing as its a little bit differrent and there is too much crap on the web, so I came back here. I was thinking that if bacteria could get in easily, is it possible for hiv since it's much smaller. Sounds like the answer is a firm no, which is a good thing! Better to ask a stupid question than make a wrong assumption.

Ann · « **Reply #17 on:** December 01, 2009, 07:21:17 am »

menem,

The difference between hiv and bacteria in this situation has NOTHING to do with size and everything to do with viability. Bacteria remain viable and able to infect when outside the body and in the environment, while hiv does not. This is also why so many of the other STIs are so much easier to transmit - many of them are bacteria.

Ann

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Author Topic: Could the impossible have happened (Read 12555 times)