cunnilingus

[gatesofheaven]

2 weeks ago i had protected sex with a woman- HIV status unknown, and performed oral sex on her for a lengthly period, at some points inserting my tongue into her vagina. It is normal for me to have cuts and abrasions on the inside of my mouth and gums, and i believe that there were some present at the time. Also, when i removed the condom, there was an unfamiliar fluid present, even though i did not ejaculate.

Does any of this put me at risk of HIV infection?

I am concerned as right on the 2 week mark, I have a stinging rash on the collar of my neck, and unusually swollen glands.

Should I get tested?

[RapidRod]

No risk what so ever.

HIV is transmitted by;
Unprotected penetrative anal and/or vaginal sex
Sharing works with other IV drug abusers
Mother to child

[gatesofheaven]

That was quick! I am relieved to hear that. So I do not need to test, at all?

[jkinatl2]

That was quick! I am relieved to hear that. So I do not need to test, at all?

If you want to test for peace of mind, or to get a baseline negative, sure, go ahead. But cunnilingus does not transmit HIV.

[gatesofheaven]

I had tested negative before this incident so i am confident with a negative baseline. I am just not sure what the etiquette is, like would it be irresponsible for me not to test after this? Or is it acceptable to just resume living like normal -given that I was not at risk, and counseled by a reliable authority (This forum)

[jkinatl2]

I had tested negative before this incident so i am confident with a negative baseline. I am just not sure what the etiquette is, like would it be irresponsible for me not to test after this? Or is it acceptable to just resume living like normal -given that I was not at risk, and counseled by a reliable authority (This forum)

Absolutely. There is no HIV risk in cunnilingus.

[Ann]

Gates,

I totally agree that cunnilingus is not a risk for hiv infection. Unless you've got one phenomenal tongue (do you know who Gene Simmons is?), you're not going to reach the area in a woman where the virus lies deep inside the vagina. The fluids a woman produces when sexually excited come from two glands on either side of the vaginal opening and these fluids aren't infectious. Aside from that, not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect.

One thing I want you to consider is this - you say "I had tested negative before this incident" and I hope by this you mean you get tested regularly as a part of a routine sexual health check up. Any sexually active adult should be doing this - think of it like going for routine dental check ups. You may brush and floss regularly and you may not have a toothache, but you go to the dentist anyway.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST SPECIFICALLY OVER PROTECTED INTERCOURSE OR CUNNILINGUS, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv. Some of the other STIs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

[gatesofheaven]

Ann, are you saying that it is possible? I am just a bit worried as it was exactly two weeks ago and last night i woke up sweating, with a sore throat. As the cunnilingus was mixed with fingering, is it possible that i could have brought out vaginal fluid to where cunnilingus takes place? And of course i have heard of Gene Simmons! My tongue is big but not THAT big.

[RapidRod]

Saliva contains over a dozen different enzymes and proteins the inhibits HIV transmission from oral sex. You didn't have an exposure.

[Ann]

Gates,

No, I'm not saying it's possible that you were infected by anything you report. I was only trying to convey to you that as a sexually active adult, you should be having a FULL sexual health check up at least once a year. It's what responsible adults do to protect themselves and their sexual partners. Hiv isn't the only STI out there you know, and the other STIs are MUCH more easily transmitted than hiv could ever hope to be.

As I said yesterday, provided you always use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return negative results - but hiv isn't the only thing for which you should be testing. As I also said yesterday, think of it like going to the dentist for a regular, routine check up. It's what responsible people do to look after their health.

To be absolutely clear, you did NOT have a risk for hiv infection through anything you report.

Ann

[gatesofheaven]

Thank you guys, What a relief. With this I can confidently go back to dating without feeling I could be unknowingly infected. After this experience of being in the shoes of a person who is HIV+, the stigma is gone. We are all the same, no one should be feared or marginalized because of it. Life changing for sure. Thank you all for supporting and advising us when we are freaking out, poking our lymph nodes and checking for rashes. We are just scared, and dont mean any offence

[gatesofheaven]

How can i ignore these symptoms? they are exactly as described in everywhere i look and the same time frame too. Im really sorry to bring this up again. what do you say to people who get a fever, night sweats, rash and swollen glands exactly 2 weeks from exposure?

Wouldn't fingering transport the virus closer to the opening of the vagina? I dont know the person's HIV status, and i dont feel like i should ask her lest she be insulted. My doctor doesnt seem to know much on the topic and wasnt even sure of the testing window and had to look it up. You guys have experience, tell me that i am crazy for thinking i need to be tested for HIV.

I am out of my mind with fear. Do any of the people like me who have done oral on a woman and are sure of their symptoms ever come back with a positive result?

[jkinatl2]

How can i ignore these symptoms? they are exactly as described in everywhere i look and the same time frame too. Im really sorry to bring this up again. what do you say to people who get a fever, night sweats, rash and swollen glands exactly 2 weeks from exposure?

Wouldn't fingering transport the virus closer to the opening of the vagina? I dont know the person's HIV status, and i dont feel like i should ask her lest she be insulted. My doctor doesnt seem to know much on the topic and wasnt even sure of the testing window and had to look it up. You guys have experience, tell me that i am crazy for thinking i need to be tested for HIV.

I am out of my mind with fear. Do any of the people like me who have done oral on a woman and are sure of their symptoms ever come back with a positive result?

You know who took care of gay men who were dropping like flies in the 80s and 90s, during the height of the AIDS Pandemic in the US? Lesbians. You know why?

I mean, besides the fact that they're awesome.

As a population, Women who have Sex with Women (WSW) have been virtually untouched by the HIV pandemic. Because cunnilingus and fingering have NEVER been documented to transmit HIV.

This is in direct contrast to Men who have Sex with Men (MSM) and heterosexual females, who continue to constitute the vast majority of HIV cases in the US.

I don't know what else to tell you. Perhaps you have gonorrhea, syphilis, chlamydia, or any of the other STDs you absolutely CAN get from cunnilingus and fingering.

But this is not an HIV situation. Not in any way, shape or form. Sometimes a coincidence is simply that. Maybe you have a cold. Maybe your lymph nodes are swollen because you are poking at them. You realize that this CAUSES them to painfully swell, right?

Not sure how to make it any more plain. Except to say that if you ARE the first person in documented history to have gotten HIV from thee activities, either the virus has mutated into a contagious rather an infectious model (in which case, oops for the species) or YOU have a body so abnormal that perhaps the clue to the final cure for HIV is in your very DNA. Either way, you wouldn't be paying for health care, and you'd probably be famous.

[gatesofheaven]

In the links of the 'read this before posting' article, it is stated that there are two confirmed case of HIV being transmitted via cunnilingus to the insertive partner. As I have these symptoms that fit the description of ARS, should I test?

I know the chances of it are almost zero, given the facts. Although, I cant really get my mind off it.

1. Am I crazy?

2. In your years of experience have you ever seen someone who has had oral 'theoretical exposure', had symptoms that fit the description of ARS come back with a HIV positive result?

3. If I was to test, when is the earliest time to have a result that you can be confident in, even though its not a conclusive result, as i know that is 3 months.

I am running out of things to bug you guys with, dont worry.

[Ann]

Gates,

OK, for a start, those two cases (seriously? you're freaking out about TWO cases in over thirty years?) were never documented, meaning the virus was never proven to have come from where it was claimed. They were case reports, not documented reports.

If I remember correctly, it later came out that in one of the cases, the man had been having unprotected sex outside the relationship where he claimed to have become infected and in the other case (two women), the woman who became infected had been sharing drug injecting equipment but hiding her drug problems from her girlfriend. People lie about shit all the time.

Since we've had the technology to match strains of hiv, never once has a claim of infection through cunnilingus stood up to scrutiny. Those case reports happened well before this technology became available. Unfortunately, they're still "on the books" and we'd be remiss to leave them out of our lessons, simply because people could try to accuse us of trying to hide something otherwise. Which leaves me in the position of having to explain it all in-depth, but oh well, it keeps me out of mischief.

1. You're not crazy - yet. Keep dwelling on your NO RISK situation and you just might get there.

2. Never. In fact, as a positive woman myself, I am totally confident in letting my negative sexual partners participate in oral sex - either way - with me. None of them have ever ended up poz and none of them are ever going to end up poz - at least not as a result of anything they do with me. All I do with negative men to insure their negative status is to make sure they're wearing a condom for intercourse. I don't just talk about this stuff, I live it too. I talk the talk AND walk the walk.

3. When there has been a risk (you have NOT had a risk), the earliest a person should test is at six weeks. The vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days. A six week negative must be confirmed at the three month point - when there has actually been a risk. You have NOT had a risk. You can test anytime for a conclusive result.

If the only way you're going to let this go is by testing, then by all means, go for it. You should be testing at least once a year anyway as I've already told you. Think of it like going to the dentist - you might brush and floss and you might not have a toothache, but you go anyway. This yearly sexual health check up should include tests for ALL sexually transmitted infections, not just hiv.

You're much more likely to be unwittingly walking around with gonorrhea or chlamydia than you are hiv, given what you've described of your sex life. Those two are MUCH more prevalent and MUCH more easily transmitted. And yes, you can get either (and syphilis too) orally. Either way orally.

Ann

[gatesofheaven]

Thanks Ann, I really appreciate that detailed reply. I have been reading journals through my uni that support what I have read about hiv transmission online here. I am about to resume a relationship with a HIV- person and want to know that I am not doing the wrong thing by not testing over this incident. I have had a high temperature (not a high fever, just a constant raised temperature) and night sweats for about a 8 days now, starting 2 weeks after the incident, a rash that lasted a few days on my neck and shoulder, testicular pain and swollen lymph nodes... which may be swollen just from my own curiosity. I know this is all not specific to HIV, but i cant help notice the similarity to cases i have read about on here.

Am I doing the right thing by not testing?

and IF you did recommend me to test, would it be purely for my own peace of mind?

I am trying to put it to rest, i just don't want to practice negligence at someone else's expense

[Ann]

Gates,

You should have a COMPLETE sexual health check up - hello? Is this thing on? I coulda sworn I've said this before - at least once a year.

Also - and I'm sure I've already said this too - you should be using condoms in your new relationship until such time as you have BOTH tested for hiv and all the other sexually transmitted infections TOGETHER before you stop using condoms together. Also, you should either be monogamous in this situation, or at the very least, using condoms outside this relationship.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!

Ann

[gatesofheaven]

I cant shut it out, the nagging feeling that i possibly picked it up. I just have a few more questions about ars.

Do they symptoms come all at once? or do you get swollen lymph nodes in your neck, and then your groin and then your armpits later, for example? and how long do they remain swollen?

I had the fever and night sweat stuff in the from 14 - 21 days after exposure. Since then (now day 34) I have had really sore lymph nodes in my groin and now my armpits.

And also: about the new technology that can identify HIV strains. Is it true that reported cases of transmission via cunnilingus has never been proven with this? could you possibly link me to a study of this?

Thanks for everything

[Ann]

gates,

Your symptoms sound nothing like seroconversion illness.

If you feel  unwell, see a doctor. You have not had a risk for hiv infection.

If you cannot bring yourself to believe that you had no risk, go test and get it over and done with, and collect your negative result. I've repeatedly told you that as a sexually active adult, you should be testing once a year anyway, regardless of risk.

Ann