New counts & Alcohol Addiction

[milker]

My new counts are

CD4: 332 (26%)
VL: 33308

So not much change since last counts (see my signature line for last counts).

I told him I wanted to go on meds asap, he said I was at the point where he would offer me to go meds, so we're in sync.

He will take a geno/pheno "because i'm sexually active without protection" even though there was one done last year, but he suggested Atripla if the pheno/geno is like the previous one.

He said I would have to take Atripla in the morning, so I was a bit concerned about going to work after taking Atripla. His answer was that because I'm an alcoholic he doesn't want me to miss a dose in the evening because I'm drunk and risk resistance.

So after my visit I went to the Kaiser addiction center, talked about my situation, and they offered two solutions:

1) AA type meetings (12 step)
2) 60 day in a recovery home 100 miles from where I live, meaning not being allowed to work, and put on state disability (rehab type)

I don't want to jeopardize my abilities to take meds when I should take them, and I'm not sure I will have the strength to go to AA type meetings. My first thoughts are going towards the 60 days but then I'm concerned about this having an effect on my work (losing it).

I was also offered Antabuse, but this scares me as it is very sensitive to alcohol in food, so I declined. I was prescribed medication to avoid shaking and possible ceasures during withdrawals, I will get it tomorrow I don't remember the name.

Any advice?

Milker.

/edited for typo/

[BT65]

Well Milker my dear, I've cold turkied and I've been in detox and I can tell you that detox is the way to go.  Plus, if you're really concerned about your drinking and have a true desire to stop, being away in another environment can help a great deal.  They can teach you life skills etc. so you can manage life without the booze.  I still go to meetings.  I'm still crazy, just without the drugs/booze.  I know you can do this; you've been kind of going back and forth on this for a long time.  If you don't quit drinking, you might lose your job anyway, know what I mean?  Usually employers are very accepting of this type of situation and your job will still be waiting for you.  Of course, this is a very personal decision on your part.  You know me, I'll support whatever you do baby.

[Mike2008]

Without your your HEALTH you have nothing.  No job, nothing .

I look forward to AA meetings!  You will too.

GO - Find a large Speaker meeting you can set in the back row and not say a word, although most people say , HI, Milker, I am an alcoholic.  Past that you set there and listen.

 
Mike

[aztecan]

Milker Darlin,

I have seen both programs work for people. What about the 60-day rehab followed by AA meetings?

I have gone to meetings with my ex. They did a world of good for him and for others I know.

Whatever you decide, I'll support you.

HUGS,

Mark

[Mike2008]

If you want something right now you can click on this link http://www.steppinoutradio.com/

They have hours of AA,NA and other 12 step meetings you can listen too or download.

[Oceanbeach]

Dear Milker,

Normally 28 days in Rehab is recommended because that is the amount of time most insurance providers will pay for.  I had two life long friends who went into different Rehab clinics for different reasons. 

Ed worked in the sawmills and had a very long term alcohol problem.  He chose a place in Humboldt County where the other loggers went.  They were free to come and go, there was a market next door where they could buy beer but if they did... they were kicked out of the program.  Ed has been "cleaan and sober" now for over 20 years.

Gary had cocaine addiction and alcohol.  His parents sent him to an "upscale" rehab in the Napa Valley.  He was the token "Paul Bunyon" as a logger while everyone else was in a rock band or owned a fabulous restaurant in Berkeley.  The program was good but Gary had nothing in common with the others in his group, after care did not work out so Gary went back to being Gary.  He has moved to Montana and according to his twin, is also "clean and sober" for over 10 years.

I went to a 12 step a day, everyday for 90 days and that opened my mind up to an awareness of a "potential problem" but, I continued to live, work and play in the bars.  When I left L.A. for the country, it was a fairly rude awakening.  There was 1 bar in the town where I lived and went there on my first night in the new house.  It was 10:00 PM and the bar was closed.  I went there the next day at "Happy Hour" there was me, two farmers and the bartender/owner. In the 4 years, I lived in that town, I never went back.  There had been a gay bar on the other side of the lake but it had burned and never reopened.

Having lived on the Russian River for the last 3 years, I just never got used to going out and drinking much.  I don't remember if I told you this but after Meet and Greet, I sat in my car for hours until I felt safe to drive home and I only had 4 cocktails that evening (if the key is not in the ignition, there is no intent to drive).  I have a full bar set up at home and I haven't had to restock in 8 years.  But in a typical night in WEHO, I would be dancing on the pool tables.

I think sobriety is more than a program and/or going to meetings.  In order to be sober, you have to reinvent yourself and really work on behavior modification but the amount of energy and the possible results received are based solely on the amount of personal energy you put in.  I have always been impressed with you because of how much you have learned about living with HIV and how much you have shared with others.  Aren't you having your "First HIV Anniversary"?  I have been living with HIV since 1994 and don't know half of what you do.  I wish you the best on this and hope you succeed.  Have the best day
Michael

[mikeyleerocks]

I'm not a big fan of the AA - 12 stop program model and so I looked for alternatives.  One I've come across is called SMART ... it emphasizes self-control and making good or bad choices rather than treating alcoholism as a disease .... it's pretty interesting.  There are a lot of alternatives out there.  I'd google "alcohol-addiction" and look at some of them.  I haven't participated in this program yet but it definitely fits my life better.

Here's a link to one site ...
http://alcoholism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=alcoholism&cdn=health&tm=138&f=00&su=p726.2.152.ip_p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.smartrecovery.org/meetings_db/view/

[BT65]

Milker, I would tend to agree with rehab followed by 12 step meetings.  As stated in a PM, trying to sober yourself up on your own can be medically dangerous.  With alcoholics, BP shoots up, you can have convulsions etc. that should be looked after medically.  As a plus side of 12-step meetings, that's where the biggest success story is as far as keeping people clean/sober.  And they teach you how to live life also.  Like I said before, you know I love you, and I'll support whatever you do.
Peace-
Betty

[RapidRod]

milker, go for the Antabuse. If that isn't enough to scare the shit out of you when you slip, all the AA meetings and rehabs in the world won't phase you. A friend of mine had been to 5 rehabs and I have no idea how many AA meetings and they didn't work for him. The antabuse worked and I mean it works quick and he was so ill from testing it to see if it really worked. Make sure you listen to the Dr well, if you do go on Antabuse. No alcohol at all, not even in foods or mouthwashes. All the higher powers in the world couldn't stop me drinking but a warning from the court of a stint in prison and 11 thousand dollars fine cured my ass. Like with smoking, you have to want to quit or you'll be fooling no one except yourself for failure. Good luck to you milker.

[NLEWLAD]

Hey mike,

not got much info for you but wanted you to know i have just quit a  12 year cocaine habit  been clean for 8 months  so it can be done, if you want any support let me know or pm me 

thinkin about you

simon

[mikeyleerocks]

 As a plus side of 12-step meetings, that's where the biggest success story is as far as keeping people clean/sober.

Not trying to be contentious - but the research I've done doesn't say that.....the 12-step programs have a pretty dismal long-term success rate.  It's impossible to say what's right for another, but I encourage you to look at all of the options.


m

[a2z]

My first thoughts are going towards the 60 days but then I'm concerned about this having an effect on my work (losing it).

Milker, I presume you are in the U.S.  Does your job qualify for up to 13 weeks under the Family Medical Leave Act?

[AlanBama]

Milker, my dear man....

I'm sorry you are having to face these tough decisions, but thankful that you ARE facing them.   I'm in your corner, honey.    You do the best you can, and remember, YOU ARE WORTHY.   You deserve to have the best life you can have.

love & hugs,

Alan

[milker]

Thanks all for your support. I've taking to people around and will think about it this week-end. I'm glad you're all here to help me, I really appreciate it ! I haven't had a chance to get the meds for the anxiety today so it will be tomorrow. I think I will definitely go to one of those meetings, if I don't like it then fine, but without checking it out I will never know. And maybe there will be some hot poz dude there Now why do they all have them at 5:30pm, beats me. People don't work? I'll have to get an arrangement with work to get there on time. I'm not sure about the 13week Family leave, i'll check that out.

Thanks,

Milker.

[RapidRod]

milker, once you go they will usually give you a list of all the AA support groups and there meeting times that's in your area. They may even have a Gay AA support group that meets. When it comes time to get a sponsor, make sure you find one that has several years of sobriety and a person you feel you could talk to and feel comfortable with.  Just don't use our serenity prayer. "Grant me serenity to accept the things I can change, and fuck the ones I can't." Don't say that one, they'll give you dirty looks. Good luck to you.

[milker]

milker, once you go they will usually give you a list of all the AA support groups and there meeting times that's in your area. They may even have a Gay AA support group that meets. When it comes time to get a sponsor, make sure you find one that has several years of sobriety and a person you feel you could talk to and feel comfortable with.  Just don't use our serenity prayer. "Grant me serenity to accept the things I can change, and fuck the ones I can't." Don't say that one, they'll give you dirty looks. Good luck to you.

Rapid, I like that prayer. Thanks for the hint

They gave me a list that is 7 pages long... it's just that the Kaiser ones where I went are at 5:30, I was thinking I needed to go to the Kaiser ones but I guess I can go to any one of them.

Milker.

[BreakerOneNine]

Hey mike,

not got much info for you but wanted you to know i have just quit a  12 year cocaine habit  been clean for 8 months  so it can be done, if you want any support let me know or pm me 

thinkin about you

simon

Amen....I have been heavily doing drugs since 94....ecstasy...coke...meth....all the raver/club drugs....ended my drug addiction with a good  4 month $20,000 crack binge.....and now I have been clean for 17 months and am very lucky and amazed to be alive....I mean all this and having been positive since 96....I dont know how I am still here....I didnt want or like going to meetings at first....I went to a 90 day rehab program....and we did 90 meetings in 90 days...I now love them and am proof that they can work....I wish nothing but the best for you and assure you that you can do it.....as stated by others, please feel free to hit me up with a PM.

-Jeff

[Dragonette]

Just wanted to say good luck.

[newt]

His answer was that because I'm an alcoholic he doesn't want me to miss a dose in the evening because I'm drunk and risk resistance.

...but not let's look at a different combo that's easy to take in the morning? hmmm...

If you believe there is a chance you might fall of the rehab skateboard or whatever programme you go for and therefore might end up drunk one odd day  some time in the future and potentially miss a dose, a PI based combo would be a better choice resistance wise, since the risks and consequences of resistance would be less than with an NNRTI based one. Plus they are easier to take in the morning/midday etc.

- matt

[Nadine]

Hey Milker...just wanted to wish you all the best!

You know someone is always here for you to reach out to.

 

[BT65]

Just don't use our serenity prayer. "Grant me serenity to accept the things I can change, and fuck the ones I can't." Don't say that one, they'll give you dirty looks. Good luck to you.

   I love that Roddles!  Believe me, I say that several times a day.

 

t trying to be contentious - but the research I've done doesn't say that.....the 12-step programs have a pretty dismal long-term success rate.  It's impossible to say what's right for another, but I encourage you to look at all of the options.

Really.  Well, I've been to meetings where each person has at least 15 years off whatever their downfall substance was. 

Anyway, I'm not going to fight with someone here.  Milker, I do hope you're doing alright.  Know that I'm thinking of you!
Luv you-
Betty

[milker]

...but not let's look at a different combo that's easy to take in the morning? hmmm...

Oh yes he said he would give me the meds to take in the morning. So I said "uh? why not in the evening, if I have side effects I'd rather sleep on them instead of puking while working". That's why he said he wouldn't give me drugs to take at night because his fear that I would miss a dose.

Is Atripla fine to take in the morning ? I read that it's better at night.

Milker.

[BreakerOneNine]

I am taking Atripla  at 11am...you can take Atripla in the morning.....I started out with a week at bedtime....was getting minimal side effects...then took my pill an hour earlier each day til I got to the desired time I wanted to take it...thats how my doc told me to do it...I guess everyone is different though.

[milker]

Ok I got the meds, it's Chlordiazepoxide (Librium). Never heard of it. Any experience? I've never been on any anti anxiety or depression drugs ever in my life.

Milker.

edited to add the brand name Librium

[BT65]

Sweetie, I don't know how much you drink every day, but I just want to re-iterate the fact that detoxing from alcohol can be a little dangerous and trecherous.  I've never heard of the med you've been prescribed, but maybe it will be enough to get you through.  If you need anything, pm me.  Luv you sweetness.

[milker]

Sweetie, I don't know how much you drink every day, but I just want to re-iterate the fact that detoxing from alcohol can be a little dangerous and trecherous.  I've never heard of the med you've been prescribed, but maybe it will be enough to get you through.  If you need anything, pm me.  Luv you sweetness.

Someone else asked me the same question. I start at 6pm and I have half a bottle (sometimes a bit more) of Jack Daniels every night. On the rocks. If I go to a club, then I chain drink until the last call, I blacked out completely during the last 3 week-ends and that is what made me realize this is going completely out of control and I had to seek professional help I couldn't do it myself.

Milker.

[bear60]

My dear friend...
I wish you the best through this and hope that you are able to get to a place  where you are comfortable and happy with yourself.  We are in this together.

[BT65]

And you know dearie, it's not necessarily when or what you drink, it's what happens after you start drinking. 

[manchesteruk]

Hey Milker,

I'm sorry to hear you are having some problems at the moment.  It certainly sounds like you've decided to tackle them head first though and you should be proud of that.  Good luck, I hope it all goes well for you.

Chris

[Buckmark]

Milker,

Regarding the choices of meds and when to take them, it seems to me that "once a day" is "once a day" -- what time of the day does not matter, as long as it is the same time.  My doctor told me that you can take Atripla at any time of day, but most people choose to take it at night because of the side-effects.  For me, the side-effects include a slight feeling of drunkenness, ironically.  Perhaps part of the equation should also be "what drug combo is also the most forgiving" (I believe someone else mentioned this above).

I hope all goes well for you, no matter which path you take to tackle your alcohol addiction. 

Hugs,

Henry

[Dan J.]

Milker,

I hope that you can find the help and support you need either in a Rehab facility or a local AA meeting. Going to meetings is the easy part, working the 12 steps is the hard part of the program. You sound like your ready to do the hard part.

I support you.

Love,

Dan

[Oceanbeach]

Ok I got the meds, it's Chlordiazepoxide (Librium). Never heard of it. Any experience? I've never been on any anti anxiety or depression drugs ever in my life.

Milker.

edited to add the brand name Librium

I have been on Librium briefly.  It is a salt found in most peoples bodies but lacking in "manic" personalities.  My shrink put me on it to try and on follow-up he took me off prescribing a new and improved boyfriend. 
  .  When I got home, BF asked what doctor said... "Penthouse 1 is leased in my name only and you have to move".  Have the best day
Michael

[BT65]

I have been on Librium briefly.  It is a salt found in most peoples bodies but lacking in "manic" personalities.  My shrink put me on it to try and on follow-up he took me off prescribing a new and improved boyfriend. 
  .  When I got home, BF asked what doctor said... "Penthouse 1 is leased in my name only and you have to move".  Have the best day
Michael

Michael, you're thinking of Lithium.  OK, Milker sweetie, I was on a Librium withdrawal the time I came off Methadone.  It's a benzodiazepene, similar to Valium.  It's a good one to detox on, but I think you should get instructions on how to use it, tapered doses etc.  If you want to look it up on the web, a good site a friend of mine who's a therapist told me about that's worked for me is drugs.com.  They have pretty good information on there.  Sending you lots of hugs! Luv you-Betty

[Oceanbeach]

Hey Betty,

I'm sorry, you are correct.  It was Lithium, not Librium.  Silly me, scratch my experiences on that drug, I was never on it.  Have the best day
Michael

[sacinsc]

Milker,

Good Luck, I wish you could go to a Pride Center for a rehab stay, or like I did when I finally lost my mind and was in an all gay group. I hope you do really well on the meds and get the help you need to get off the alcohol. Your a great guy, you'll make it.

Matt

[JohnOso]

Milker,
thinking of you buddy, and hope things work out for you.

I have given Librium in the past for detox from alcohol (actually i used to give it more years ago than i do now).  it is a benzo much like valium or ativan, as mentioned above.  the important thing is that you get over the detox phase safely -- you really need to get on something to prevent DT's and seizures when you stop the alcohol.

Good luck to you.

xxx
John

[milker]

Well I read a bit about Librium and I'm not going to take it UNLESS I have withdrawal symptoms.

Last night I didn't drink at all, and everything was fine. First night in YEARS!!!!!! 

A bit of anxiety around 6pm wondering how I was going to manage, but that went away and I actually went to bed around 11:30! It took a bit of time to fall asleep but it's so good to wake up not feeling like shit, it's worth it.

I will attend SMART classes, not AA, SMART looks much more for me, and they also have strong online support, I already joined. I also have an appointment next week with a councellor.

So far so good!

Milker.

[Miss Philicia]

Yes, but you weren't nearly as amusing for me to IM with.  Like, I guess this means no more web cam shots of your erections at 2am (?)

[StrongGuy]

I have no experience to add on this topic, but wish you well with treatment and when you start your combo

[David_CA]

Milker,

I don't know what you're going through with the alcohol, but I wish you the best there.  You WILL succeed if / when YOU want to, I do know that.  It was like that for me when I quit smoking years ago - no relapses in over 17 years.  Take advantage of any aids (no pun intended) at your disposal such as insurance provided programs, etc.  Congrats on the honesty with your Dr, too.  As to the Atripla in the morning... that's when I take mine.  I prefer it to nighttime dosing, and it doesn't bother me much at all.  Take care.

David

[Oceanbeach]

Hey Betty,

I'm sorry, you are correct.  It was Lithium, not Librium.  Silly me, scratch my experiences on that drug, I was never on it.  Have the best day
Michael

Now, I remember why Librium was familiar... I used to misquote Patrick Henry in High School by saying, "Give Me Librium or Give Me Meth"  Have the best day
Michael

[sacinsc]

Geez, thats the second bad joke I've read from you 2 threads in a row

[Oceanbeach]

Geez, thats the second bad joke I've read from you 2 threads in a row

Its what I do  Have the best day
Michael