One year numbers

[marcmoral16]

So it's been ONE WHOLE year since I found out and my lab results are in.

CD4 343 VL <20 and CD4% 20

My CD8% she said is high at 48% is that normal?

Great news is I'm still UD but DR is convinced I've reached my baseline with Cd4. While I was hoping to have been higher I do realize that I'm healthy and not ill so I'm thankful and I'll take my 343 against anyone's 900 

[eric48]

Good Job!
Mobile.eric

[leatherman]

my cd4s stayed under 200 for 12 yrs or more, but have peaked out around 320 for the last 8+ yrs. I did hit 415 once but that was a fluke. I love my 300+ cd4s - they have kept me out of the hospital for 16 yrs. with only 1 cold and 2 fevers in all that time. It's not how many you have (as long as they are over 200 or so) but how well they work. A big/large/high immune system doesn't equate with being healthier per se.

also maybe you misunderstood your doctor. Since you are recovering, you probably have hit the baseline (the average low, as the "nadir" is the lowest point) with your cd4 count. Baseline usually refers to a starting point not an ending point. there is no way anyone can predict how high a person's cd4 count will recover. so basically, it's all up from here for you.

There is plenty of evidence too that shows that many people who remain on successful therapy do often see their cd4 rise later on, that is after a number of yrs of good treatment. in other words, if you hold stead in the 350 range and you remain UD, it's very likely that in a few years, you will see some more increase. Maybe not to 1000; but maybe to something >500. My doctor really believed the jump up to 415 that I had, after 8 successful yrs on this regimen, was the beginning of my long-awaited cd4 recovery to continue (I just wasn't as optimistic - or concerned, since my current count is working quite well)

[marcmoral16]

Leatherman thanks for all the kind words and info. I guess I had the notion with these super drugs I would be at atleast 500 by now, but with all that I'm happy and I couldn't be in a better place.

[Niceguy2013]

After one year of treatment my cd4 has ended up around 600 and the cd4% between 32-35%. I hoped for higher numbers as well, but my doctor assures me that my health is good and that I am on the right track.
Keep taking your medicine on schedule and try making healthy choices in life and it will all come around.

[leatherman]

I hoped for higher numbers as well

higher that what?!?!?  in a year's time, you went from basically having AIDS (209 was your lowerst cd4 count right?) to the numbers of a person never affected by HIV. Once a person gets over 500 (the normal range is generally 500-1500), there's really not that much higher a person can reasonably expect their count to go.

As I mentioned to marcmoral, higher cd4 count does not equate with being any healthier. It's how well your immune system works not how large your cd4 count is. So really at 600 (with a mid 30s percentage) hoping for higher numbers is wasted time, emotions, and stress.

Listen to your doctor. He said your health was good. He said your treatment is on the right track. You should remember HIV treatment is life long. Your doc will never say, your treatment is complete and worked (cause there isn't any cure yet). Whether you had had a small improvement or the great improvement you did have, you would still only be just on the "right track".  Maybe you doc could have explained better by saying your inital treatment was an incredible successful, now you need to keep your treatment on the right track to maintain the success.

I love my 300+ cd4s - they have kept me out of the hospital for 16 yrs. with only 1 cold and 2 fevers in all that time.

giving your numbers (and your fears/hopes) some perspective niceguy, it took me a decade and a half to get just half the numbers you have after 1 year, and my counts have kept me pretty darned well/healthy for over a decade now. Instead of hoping for higher numbers, make sure you are celebrating your incredible recovery.

[Niceguy2013]

Oh yes I didn't mean to come across as a downer.  I feel great and have next to zero side effects from my medicine.  I only meant that I was a bit jealous of people with much higher cd4%. I understand that cd4 counts can range widely from one week to the next and that my treatment is definitely working.  I've gone the entire year with no missed doses and plan to continue.

I'm not stressing over my numbers because I feel healthy but I just wanted the OP to know that everyone has different experiences.

[leatherman]

Oh yes I didn't mean to come across as a downer. ...  I only meant that I was a bit jealous of people with much higher cd4%.

oh, i didn't think you are a downer. It's just that you're jealous about something that can't be compared. There are people here barely at 200 who are sick less than some people near 1000. Wishing for a higher number is just not worth it when you think about the genetics, the pre-HIV "normal", the daily fluctuation in count, etc. Let me explain......

I understand that cd4 counts can range widely from one week to the next

actually your cd4s can vary by up to 100 pts a day. (so, basically 350 and 450 are in the same range, with no statistical difference if you are only viewing two cd4 test results. more on this in a moment) They are lower in the morning (10a) and highest around in the evening (6pm). Exercise lowers the count in the first hour; but afterwards, your cd4s will temporarily increase. Cigarette smoking will also give you a temporary increase (very limited in increase and duration); but which is nothing compared to the damage from the cigarettes to your general health).

scientists are trying to create drugs to help raise cd4 counts; but for the time being there's really nothing any of us can do to raise this count. keep in mind many people never had a cd4 test before being poz, so most of us have no idea what our "normal" range is. (maybe 600 was your pre-HIV normal and you've already 100% recovered! (happy thoughts help improve cd4 counts!)) The stressing/worrying/hoping about higher numbers is pretty senseless when you don't know the role your genetics play and what number you should be wishing your cd4s to recover to. Technically working on being healthier (eating well, sleeping right, exercise) helps raise cd4 counts but there is no guarantee. Sometimes people who use drugs, drink a lot, stay out too late have great cd4 counts too. (that's gotta be those genetics at work LOL)

finally to the point I mentioned earlier, Cd4 counts never matter as one-off numbers. it's only the trend of 3 tests, before you can begin to really see the state of an immune system. cd4 numbers vary too much for one test to mean much.

Keep taking your medicine on schedule and try making healthy choices in life and it will all come around.

I hope you don't think I was too preachy. Your advice was spot-on. I just didn't want you to worry about your cd4 count (your excellent counts, I should point out again ) or worry about them in the future if your hope for higher numbers didn't pan out. Plus I thought you needed to hear that good news again - that after  a year, you've got great numbers and are probably fulled recovered. being without side effects is some yummy icing on that cake. 

[Niceguy2013]

Leatherman you are very knowledgeable.  I appreciate all the good information. Those of us only a year or so into treatment probably worry too much. My doctor eased my mind by telling me that as long as I could accept that I have to take a pill every day for the rest of my life that there is no reason I shouldn't live to be an old man and die from something else.
You weren't being preachy... You just don't want us to be unnecessarily stressed out. ;-)

[Cheltlee]

Looking at your numbers Niceguy/marcmoral16 you are in a really good place and its a place I hope to be in one day.

I've been finding it hard to not stress about my numbers since I was diagnosed late last year. I've only been on treatment for a short time and things have improved slightly.

Hopefully be more like your numbers than mine at the one year mark

Lee