Swinging and broken condom

[levelhead]

OK, total transparency and full disclosure is the best way for us to start here. 

We believe we know the answers, but are asking for general guidance.  We are a couple, married, male and female.  After almost a decade of knowing each other, the sex is amazing, still.  However, just to spice things up, we have added other people into the mix - new for us, like three months.  We go to organized lifestyle theme parties, the types of places where NO means NO.  We had soft experiences and full swap experiences, fmf and mfmf.  Not all lead to sex, we're picky.  I can tell you, bi-girls, straight guys, that's who we gravitate toward.

We're safe.  Always.  REALLY.  Sometimes even that can be taken for granted though.  Darn, and that's why we are writing.

We were with a couple this past Saturday - a second meeting - this time led to a night of sex.  The sex is not that important to explain, but we did full swap.  We both had a condom on.  The problem was that his condom broke and it was noticed after ejaculation inside of my wife.  The condom was still functional, but when my wife mentioned some form of leakage to me and we questioned him, inspection shown a hole the size of a pea on the top right side.  We were calm about it on Saturday late.  Not Sunday though.  She awoke with a sore throat, runny nose, you name it.  So what did I do?  I had sex with my wife, unprotected on Sunday.  Heck, if she has anything, so will I.  We're in a swing lifestyle, but we love each other so much that I can never deal with knowing that she is more at risk compared to myself.  Three days later, I'm loaded with body aches, like muscle pain, as if something is traveling trough my body.  Urrrggghhh!   

We always get into a safe sex discussion about rules and all prior to sex with a couple - this lifestyle tends to be very strict about safe sex. We don't go to street corners to find couples.  Nothing scientific here, but all have been married, not all with kids, we are in our 30's so we have been with couples in the mid-twenties, and we primarily use a lifestyle website to chat, get party notices, or dates.

The frustration is that we can't do anything about what happened because it's only been not even a week.  How much of this is panic and anxiety that is causing these general symptoms?

We did communicate with the couple since - of course they know what happened.  The male seems to be sympathetic and both reassured that they have been recently tested, are negative, and that they always have sex with a condom, no exceptions.  However, I can't say that those words are helping right now and am hoping that he was not using us a a guinea pig in denial of finding out he is HIV positive.  They say they're negative.  We don't know if it's common to ask for someone for medical proof that they recently tested HIV negative.  Nevertheless, maybe we are over-thinking this incident.  He is 38, she is 23.  She didn't allow me to have oral on her because she just ended her period two days prior - but maybe it's because she is HIV positive and didn't want me to get anything?  We were at their place and the apartment was clean, like too clean, like we're clean, but WAIT, we mean no dust - nothing.  They have air purifiers in every room.  WTF!  Why?  She wants no kids - maybe because she can't have them because they are positive?  23-year-old hottie and wants no kids - ever? 

OK, these are true thoughts and we're just trying to make sense of it here - and we feel we're being irrational.  That's why we decided to write this forum.  We need to keep things in perspective.  We just don't know what they are.

Do we feel as if we have HIV?  No.  Do we feel as if we're frightened that we could be wrong?  Yes. 

We feel these things can happen, obviously, broken condoms, etc.  We both don't want to depart from a lifestyle we've grown to love with such wonderful people and the sex is VERY explosive both during the swing and especially after between us.  However, we can't put anyone at-risk, so do we refrain from having sex for three to six months with the exception of each other?  That would be fine with us, but is this really necessary?

Are we reaching too far here???

We agreed that moving forward, NO EJACULATION inside either party should be allowed - these are just our new rules moving forward - again, ALWAYS safe sex.  If the other couple doesn't agree, well we would have to pass on sex.  It's just not worth it.  After all, soft sex is just as HOT.  We're not experts on swinging, but I have been trying to research this lifestyle and indicators are that a very remote statistic of HIV transmission has happened from swinging mostly because lots of people adhere to safe sex practices.

Did we write too much here?  I'm sure we're not the first this has happened to.  So, test in three months?  Think so, I mean, what is the ethical thing here.  Adjustments in our sexual practices rules, right?  And should we step out of the lifestyle based on what happened to us???

[Matty the Damned]

OK.

Look there has been a risk here, not just for HIV but for other more easily and more prevalent STDs such as chlamydia and gonorrhoea.

The only thing you can do is to be tested (the both of you) for HIV 13 weeks after the date of these sexual escapades. You should also (both) arrange to be tested for other STDs too.

Now the risk is not enormous. The likelihood of contracting HIV from a single episode of unprotected vaginal sex is not great. But it's there. I would expect you to test negative for HIV but there's only one way to find out.

This may also be an opportune time for your and your wife to be vaccinated for diseases like Hepatitis A & B, if you're not already vaccinated or immune through previous exposure.

MtD

[jkinatl2]

As you experienced a condom failure, you and your wife need to test. A test at six weeks is a great indicator, but only an HIV test at three months is considered definitive.

While you are at it, a full STD panel is always a decent idea. Though most STDs show up fairly rapidly, syphilis shares the same three month window as HIV.

As for your lifestyle, that is entirely up to you. This site does not judge. What I CAN say is a a riff from another Moderator, Ann. She states that "to consent to unprotected sex means conenting to the possibility of contracting an STD, including HIV."

I would take that a tiny step further. Condoms provide terrific protection. But on rare occasions, they fail. Sometimes they fail because the wrong lubricant is used, or not enough lubricant. Sometimes they fail because the user improperly puts it on, leaving an air bubble in the reservoir tip. Sometimes they fail when they have been exposed to heat, or are past their expiration date.And once in a great while, a defective condom leaves a warehouse.

So really, consenting to sex with any partner whose status is not definite, indicates consent to the possibility, however small, of getting an STD, including HIV. This is why we call it "safer sex" and not "safe sex." But you know that, you guys are grownups.

I certainly hope things turn out well for the both of you. Your risk is fairly small, but not zero.

[levelhead]

I'll tell you, I've never seen my wife as sick as she's been and it's progressing worse.  It's severe body ache's but mostly a head congestion. 

I'm not trying to get into symptom management, but if infected on Saturday, can a person start getting sick like the next day and progress like this within a week?  Or is this most likely unrelated?

Is that how seroconversion works?  You get sick until the body fights it off?  Or do symptoms commence only during the sero phase?

Overly concerned right about now.  I am not feeling as bad - only body aches.

[Andy Velez]

Nothing you are describing is in any way HIV-specific. And no, I don't think what she is experiencing is ARS.

Ultimately only a negative test result will put the issue to rest, but that's how I am seeing this at the moment.

[Matty the Damned]

I'll tell you, I've never seen my wife as sick as she's been and it's progressing worse.  It's severe body ache's but mostly a head congestion. 

I'm not trying to get into symptom management, but if infected on Saturday, can a person start getting sick like the next day and progress like this within a week?  Or is this most likely unrelated?

Is that how seroconversion works?  You get sick until the body fights it off?  Or do symptoms commence only during the sero phase?

Overly concerned right about now.  I am not feeling as bad - only body aches.

You need to stop fretting about symptoms. The symptoms associated with the acute phase of HIV infection are, in real terms, indistinguishable from those caused by any other number of infectious agents.

The only way to determine one's HIV status is to test at the appropriate point in time. You and your wife do need to be tested, but a discussion of non descript symtpoms is not going to make things better.

MtD

[levelhead]

OK, I generally understand.  So other STD's may have caused what is now happening.  Or it could just be a really bad cold by coincidence.  This is a woman who's never required bed rest and that's all she's amounting to right now. 

I'll have to take her to the doctor tomorrow, I suppose.

I totally understand what you're saying.  I'm just not liking any of this.

[Matty the Damned]

OK, I generally understand.  So other STD's may have caused what is now happening.  Or it could just be a really bad cold by coincidence.  This is a woman who's never required bed rest and that's all she's amounting to right now. 

I'll have to take her to the doctor tomorrow, I suppose.

I totally understand what you're saying.  I'm just not liking any of this.

I appreciate that this is stressful and it's easy to leap to the worst conclusion when you're under stress.

But remember Ockham's Razor: the simple answer is usually the correct answer.

Take your wife to the doctor. Let someone objective decide what may or may not be going on.

MtD

[levelhead]

OK, if this information helps - because it did help us both a ton here.  After absorbing this series of events, posting, and reading the advice on this site, the wife reached out to the couple we had sex with and went over this entire episode - just seconds ago.

The couple tested for full STD's in July and always use protection with sex - have had no episodes of any exposure.

This helps.  BTW, my wife and I tested for HIV years back, but have been monogamous.  

That being said, I think we can put off this HIV worry - as it makes no sense to worry to death over it.  However, it never occurred to us the manifestation of other STD's.  I don't know why most people fail to consider that possibility - US INCLUDED.

FEAR can make you age - I feel as if I aged a decade, but am breathing easier after the communication.  And we really appreciate the comments, the patience, and the expertise from this site.  Totally amazing!

[levelhead]

Missed your post Matty - yes, we will do that, but I do have to say that we both returned to having a smile after additional communication with the couple. 

We still are going to change our practices within the lifestyle.  We want to keep on a wonderful sexual journey, but must understand that these things can happen and we may need to take additional precautions.

Regardless, will test for HIV because it's the right thing to do.

[Matty the Damned]

Missed your post Matty - yes, we will do that, but I do have to say that we both returned to having a smile after additional communication with the couple. 

We still are going to change our practices within the lifestyle.  We want to keep on a wonderful sexual journey, but must understand that these things can happen and we may need to take additional precautions.

Regardless, will test for HIV because it's the right thing to do.

Yup. Getting tested is what you need to do. I'm confident that you and your wife will come out of this OK.

Remember to ask about Hepatitis A&B vaccinations as well.

Take care,

MtD

[levelhead]

Not sure we want to wait until 13 weeks.  At this point, we both need to see a doctor.  She's' worse compared to me, but both are sick.  She is very sick - tried to get through it without racing to the doctor.  We both can't get out of bed.  Too weak.  Barely had a chance to even look on this site, let alone write anything.     

Is there anything my PCP can do prior to 13 weeks to determine? 

Thank you.

[Andy Velez]

First all, like Matty I do expect you to come out of this incident ok.

The average time to seroconversion is 22 days. All but the smallest number of those who are going to seroconvert will do so withni 4-6 weeks after a risky incident. So you can test initially at 6 weeks. A negative at that point is a very strong indication that you will test negative again for a conclusive result at 13 weeks.

You can request of your doctor to have a P24 antigen test, which can be done within the first 3-4 weeks after a possible risk. During that period of time it can pick up evidence of infection. Assuming you test negative that result is not conclusive. Ultimately you both need to test again at 13 weeks for a conclusive result.   

Good luck.

[Ann]

Level,

I haven't weighed in so far because I've been ill - with something that sounds exactly like what you and your wife are going through. It's just a viral respiratory infection. I've had all the aches etc as well as a fever that has fluctuated between 100.5 and 103.2. It's not seroconversion - I'm already poz and this has nothing to do with my hiv status. It's a bug that's going around, nothing more, nothing less and I know a few negative people where I live who have been as ill as I have been.

And if that doesn't do anything for your hiv heebie-jeebies, then consider this. Your incident happened Saturday and by Sunday your wife felt ill. The symptoms of hiv seroconversion take more like ten days to two weeks to come on, if indeed they come on at all. Many people never have a single symptom of hiv seroconversion. There's no way your current illness has anything to do with hiv.

That isn't to say there wasn't a small risk of infection, but the illness you're experiencing has nothing to do with that possibility. It happened MUCH too soon afterwards.

So yes, as the others have said, you both need to test, but I fully expect you both to come out of this ok. You need to also test for the other, more easily transmitted STIs. These can be tested for ten days to two weeks following the incident, or sooner if symptoms such as penile or vaginal discharge occurs. One STI that shares a three month window period with hiv is syphilis.

Test for hiv at six weeks for peace of mind, and confirm what I expect to be negative results at the three month point.

Ann

[levelhead]

Wow!  Powerful postings by all of you - and Ann, you really took the next question out of my mouth.  I was perplexed and just speaking with my wife stating that none of this makes sense because it's not generally trending with HIV.

1- Yes, she started feeling ill Sunday, sore throat - not like we were exempt from oral on Saturday.
2- We spoke about what went wrong with the broken condom Sunday.
3- She started really feeling sick Monday forward.
4- I being next to her - not a shock and awe to get sick too.  By Wednesday, total bed rest - her worse though.
5- That here we are feeling like crap - still sick, but we were just saying to each other that it's only been 7 days and all this has happened.  Just totally nuts.  None of this seems likely.
6- I'm totally loaded with muscle aches, but I am pretty anxious too.
7- We're shifting the conversation between us that it's very likely that it's a cold, or some other type of infection possible STD-related.  Whatever it is, it sure is kick-ass powerful.

And these may be our last questions generally, possibly even my last posting.  I don't want to focus on symptoms.  However, if HIV does enter a body, I would imagine that it would mutate quickly, correct?  I just can't see HIV entering a body and sitting in the corner not wanting to do anything.  After a couple of weeks or more (generally), the body identifies a problem and responds.  Is that seroconversion?  Well, are those general ill symptoms experienced by people (if any) due to HIV itself (like because of an increasing viral load), or are the ill-related symptoms due to seroconversion? 

Thanks for your help - This team has been amazingly helpful.

[Ann]

Level,

That's right, the symptoms that sometimes accompany acute hiv infection are due to the process the body goes through while producing antibodies. That's why it's commonly called seroconversion illness. When the body produces enough antibodies, the blood seroconverts from hiv negative to hiv positive. The illness is not due to hiv itself.

It's highly unlikely your illness has anything to do with your sexual encounter at all. The sore throat etc came on too quickly even for that. It will be a viral or bacterial cold or flu you and/or your wife was exposed to sometime earlier in the week. Bugs need to "brew" in the body before they cause a problem.

I suspect that although you both embrace the swinging lifestyle, you have underlying issues of it being "naughty" or "wrong" or whatever, just due to the attitudes of society. Don't let sex-negative thinking get the better of you. Hiv and other STIs are not a punishment for enjoying sex.

You might want to read through the condom and lube links in my signature line. A correctly used and stored condom rarely breaks. A common cause of condom failure is not getting the bubble out of the tip in reservoir tip condoms. Another common cause is not using enough lube. Good luck with that in future.

[levelhead]

We're simply not sure what our doctor is trying to do.  We visited him on Friday - that's about 12 days since that episode.  He was completely in shock that we were both willing to disclose the lifestyle we are in.  We expressed our symptoms and here's what he did.  He told us its all in our head, that we can come back in about a month or so for an HIV test, but that since muscle aches and stomach pain is not generally an std-related issue, that he would not do anything.

He said for us to get out of the swinging lifestyle.  That was his prescription. 

So here we are 18 days out or so.  Wife is back to normal - she only has lots of acid or something constantly moving in her stomach, when empty, full, doesn't matter.  My body aches seem to be going away.  Last night I had the most severe bout of building nausea and had explosive diarrhea.  Today, it's minimal, just the same stomach movement like my wife.  However, I have developed a burning sensation when urinating.  It's like a pinch - different - never felt it like this ever.

I get the entire symptoms are not the way to go.  However, I feel as if something else could have been done in the meanwhile by the doctor.  I need to go to an different doctor?  Any advice here.

[Andy Velez]

There really isn't anything your doctor can "do," not when what is necessary is to wait until you reach 6 weeks post the incident to take an initial test.

Unfortunately right now you are in the HIV-jitters stage when everything that happens or doesn't happen physically is being misinterpreted as ANOTHER SIGN. Assuming you both test negative at 6 weeks the strong likelihood is that you will continue to do so again at 13 weeks for a conclusive result.

Meantime you two need to work on focusing on other aspects of your life while waiting. And don't bother saying oh we're too worried to do that, because I can tell you that response won't fly in here.

Ultimately I expect you will likely come out of this ok.

[levelhead]

Just need to take a moment to ship a quick note.  It's now 21 days post-incident.  We have been consumed with life as best as possible, but we are just stuck in this phase of staring at each other watching and waiting.  We have to wait three more weeks before a test.  It's so ironic because we both have the strange series of some type of rash, both have pimples popping up everywhere, both have a stomach that keeps moving (like a worm traveling through it), and complete muscle aches - the aches subside for a bit, but come right back.

It's difficult, as what you may know.

May we ask a question?  HIV strain.  We obviously would have the same strain - if we have anything.  Would the same strain produce the same types of symptoms generally?  This is a pretty painful moment, not emotionally, but physically.  If this were an HIV infection, are the way we're feeling likely to be the way we would feel moving forward (again due to strain)?

We're not trying to check this site every minute, but would like your feedback - totally appreciated.

Trying to keep a through this.

[Ann]

Level,

How a person reacts to acute hiv infection has much more to do with that individual's immune system rather than the strain of virus.

You mention a rash and pimples, but the rash that is sometimes associated with hiv infection is not raised, does not itch or burn nor does it come and go and if you didn't see it, you would never know it was there.

Nothing you report is hiv specific.

I still expect you both to come out of this ok.

Ann

[levelhead]

OK on the rash answer and thank you for your insight.

Can the stomach problems be GALT?  We're both having it.  It's like World War Three inside our gut.  Of course you wouldn't know if it is or isn't, but would that happen with primary?  And can this constant muscle pain - in arms, legs, and ankles be linked to HIV infection?  It feels like someone injected each secion with a needle and is sucking stuff out of each section.  I've had some extra Naprocin from some time ago, but it didn't help any.

And finally, would it be logical to take a test today - even only after three weeks?  We are not checking this site each minute - just want piece of mind and agree that we should not be trying to answer our own questions ourselves - and as for that we are hoping for a great day and Happy Halloween to you guys!

 

[Ann]

Level,

The problems you are experiencing could quite likely be down to anxiety and stress. If you continue to feel unwell, see a doctor. As you found your regular doctor to be judgemental, perhaps you could try to see a new doctor.

The earliest you should test is at six weeks as the vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by that point. The average time to seroconversion is 22 days. A six week negative must be confirmed at the three month point but is highly unlikely to change.

Ann

[levelhead]

Understood.

Oh Ann, we are so careful - only have unprotected sex with each other - and both wish that we never had the couple actually have a broken condom with ejaculation.  So we have to make choices moving forward.

It's just that here we .  Never had unprotected sex.  with three weeks of passed time and I would think that the muscle aches, war in the gut/stomach, and itchy skin would've cleared up or subsided by now.  We can't see how we would feel generally ill otherwise.

We totally understand what we need to do.

I have noticed since yesterday a slight pain on the inside of my penis head.  It's like a slight burn.  Why now though.  I mean feeling that way weeks later?  We have not had sex since that night, and never had unprotected with anyone.  It's just all nuts.  Thank you for your time.

[Ann]

Level,

If your penis is bothering you, you need to get that checked out. It is possible to have some of the more easily transmitted sexual infections like gonorrhea or chlamydia without having symptoms (I'm thinking of your wife here) so yes, please both of you get completely checked out for STIs other than hiv. And yes, sometimes it can take a few weeks for localised symptoms of other STIs to appear.

If you need help finding a clinic that specialises in STIs near you, try the Health Services Directory at POZ.com.

Ann

[levelhead]

I would like to jump into this conversation.  I am the wife and I have asked my husband to stop writing because this is too confusing for me.  I didn't think it was wise for me to start an new account.  This way I don't have to repeat the story.  If you want me to start a new account, I will.

I have been reading through the responses - all of them.  Here I am forth week after this incident.  The last three have been a nightmare.  I believe whatever I am going through may not fit with HIV initially, but yea I'm not sure.  I would think it's unlikely for two people to have exact symptoms within one week of an incident - and that they last continuously, but it has to be possible.  Even if it was HIV, I would think one of our bodies would respond differently, not the same.  That's what makes this so confusing.

The rash went away.  I had some spotted pimples on my face, he had most on his back.  What we share are CONSTANT muscle pains, and our stomach seems to not want to settle food causing for increased bowel movements.  The muscle pain is in the arms by the shoulders, thighs, ankles, back.  For me, it feels as if I had injections in each spot.  It is every day, every hour, every minute.  It's causing so much fatigue.

I can't take this anymore.  I am scheduling an appointment for both of us at a new doctor - maybe Planned Parenthood can take both of us.  I have to find a doctor who can deal with a full series of tests now. 

If this is HIV, and if these symptoms we are both sharing happen to be confirmed, we have to get treatment for it right away.  I have been waiting, and waiting, and waiting for my body to fix this.  He on the other hand has been writing, and writing, and writing, and I think none of this is good.  So I asked him to stop writing and I have to listen to my body because it's not responding to whatever may be wrong.

All of this is just nuts.  And I a scared now.  My PCP said I had to wait another month or so.  Can't we test now, or at least try?  I mean, what is wrong with these doctors?  Do most people have this problem if they are HIV positive, like immediately infected that they're in so much pain?  And I really don't want to write anymore.  I just want to read any response and simply move in the direction I need to move in.  I must leave you with the fact that I do believe at this point that I've contracted something. 

I know you've heard that before.  I must say that I do believe something is here. 

Best regards!

J

[Ann]

j,

As I've already told your husband, the earliest you should test is at six weeks.

Nothing either of you report sounds like acute hiv infection. None of it. Going to see a new doctor is a good idea. Good luck with that.

Ann

[levelhead]

Thank you and please close this post.  There should be no more questions regarding this incident.  If any other questions develop, it must be related to any specific direction from a doctor or questions on results.  Much respect for what you guys do.

I am not going to allow this issue to take over our lives and HIV infection does not make people lose their brains to not comprehend information that has been clearly written.

Thank you so much for your time and attention to this matter.

Regards,

J

[levelhead]

We have an appointment tomorrow with my OBGYN at Planned Parenthood.  It may not be the most preferred option, but they do have a great track record at screening for STD's.  They might even have an HIV test that provides results in 20 minutes I hear.  Not sure.  I have both of us going.  I expect this to be settled soon, one way or the other.  Thank you for your support and guidance.  We will reveal step-by-step everything that has happened, full disclosure to this new doctor familiar with STD's.  I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of this.  If I have any further questions, I will post.

Need a little good karma out there.

Thank you,

J.

[Ann]

J,

Most PPs do have rapid tests available. Good luck.

Ann

[levelhead]

Visited PP and it was not what I expected, but it's something.  They did bloodwork on both of us and urine.  I allowed a pelvic exam and they discovered something called Trich and some baterial infection.  The other results will be called into a hotline within two weeks.  I have to call a code and check after I receive a message from them. 

So we took pills at the facility and walked out with more for me.

We were hoping this would end it, but no.  Steady muscle aches, pain in joints, no appetite, nausea, constantly going to the bathroom, stomach acid, and now my husband lost 7 lbs within the last 5 weeks since the onset of his pains.  It's just steady, steady, steady misery - in between it seems they're followed by a decent day, but then the wave comes back stronger and harder.  Nevertheless, we did the right thing and went to the doctor.  I'm just feeling that these symptoms are classic HIV symptoms. 

Trying over here, but time sucks - waiting for the phone to ring - any day now.  Urrrggghhhh!

[Andy Velez]

Fortunately feelings aren't facts. And no, what you are experiencing are absolutely not "classic ARS symptoms.

While I appreciate your dismay I don't see HIV as the problem for either of you.

[jkinatl2]

I totally agree with Andy. And at the risk of sounding obvious, I would like to make a comment without any judgment at all.

I lift weights. I have torn a rotator cuff, I have hurt my knees, I have pulled and torn muscles over the years. These are things I would not have been as likely to do had I not lifted weights. The benefits of weightlifting, in my mind, outweighs the risks. And of course, for every hundred times I am careful and use good form, there is the one or two times a year when I pull something, or strain something. It is statistically more likely that I will do that. Just like my runner friends are statistically likely to have more sinewy bodies and bad ankles later in life.

In the swinging lifestyle, one risk you and your partner(s) will take is to acquire an STD every now and then. From something as mild as crabs to chlamydia, gonorrhea, syphilis, HPV and herpes. Some of these things are undetectable, asymptomatic, and very very infectious. Some can be treated easily (if not cheaply). Some, like HPV and herpes, can be treated but not cured as of yet.

In my life I have had, statistically, many more sexual partners than the norm. I am neither proud nor ashamed of that fact. It is what it is. And though I too reasonable precautions, I nonetheless managed to acquire some STDs along the way. That is the risk I was willing to take, and I was treated for each and every one, either when symptoms emerged or from routine and frequent physical exams and bloodwork.

I don't pass any more judgment on THAT than I do for the weight training, and the inherent risks there. We all decide for ourselves what we want out of life, and what risks we are willing to take to get there. We then decide the level of precaution, somewhere between totally safe (not weight training at all, or not having any sex) and totally risky (weight training when sick, or drunk, or careless; having unprotected penetrative sex). It's a continuum. And we have to choose for ourselves where we draw that line - and that line might change, as new information comes along, or we choose to push those boundaries.

To have sex, protected or not, is to assume the risk, however small, of acquiring an STD, including HIV.

While I absolutely do not think the events which directly brought you to this forum present a real threat of HIV infection, having sex, even protected sex, with multiple partners statistically places you at a higher risk of acquiring an STD. The trick is to understand that risk, and minimize it without negatively impacting the benefits you receive.

[levelhead]

So it's been six months.  I wanted to disclose that I took an HIV test again last week because the prior one was done at 10 weeks.  The results are all clear.  It has to mean that we can put closure to this on our end. 

Let me also add that though the lifestyle choice we've made in the past opened the door to many horizons, and we don't judge anyone on sexuality - we think we're giving it a long-term break - just a personal decision, because anything can happen.

We've always played safe, but we did learn that one can have a risk at any given time even by being extremely responsible. 

Have lots of love for this site.  Learned a ton - very educational.

Thank you to the forum for being a great support.  Actually thinking about even adding to our family.  Imagine that?  Diapers, again?  LMAO 

Hugs and kisses!

[Andy Velez]

It's very good to know you've gotten the all-clear.

Remember if you choose to swing again, condoms are a must everytime for vaginal and anal intercourse. You don't want to have re-live the experience of the past months.

Best of luck to you.