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Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: tednlou2 on August 27, 2012, 03:14:28 am

Title: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: tednlou2 on August 27, 2012, 03:14:28 am
I just saw that beginning today, the "Am I Infected" forum will require a paid subscription to participate.  I was kinda curious what members think of that?  I know there are a lot of people who have psychological issues, thinking sitting at a bus stop infected them.  I am not making fun of them.  I think that comes from a lot of issues regarding sexuality, often times.  However, I do think about the folks who have a legitimate concern and have questions about PEP, but can't afford to pay.  But, I know I'm not the ones who have to read and respond to all those questions.  And, I know this site can't be everything to everyone, especially for free. 

And, do you think this will cause people to claim to be positive, so they can post in "Living" and other forums?  I can imagine some saying they are poz, and then asking questions like "Do you think oral sex is how I got infected?  Do you think getting a guy's load on me could have been responsible for my infection?"  I realize those people will be sniffed out fairly quickly, but it may cause a lot of interruption.  Or not.  We may not see that at all.   


"Beginning Monday, August 27, the "Am I Infected?" AIDSmeds forum will begin requiring paid subscriptions for participation.

In these difficult economic times, we have been unable to recover the costs associated with maintaining these forums. To offset our expenses, all "Am I Infected?" participants will be required to pay to participate. A seven-day subscription will be $9.99, a 30-day subscription will be $14.99 and a 90-day subscription will be $24.99.

All past, present and future "Am I Infected?" forums participants will need to subscribe, with secure payments made via PayPal. There will be no charge to read threads in the "Am I Infected?" forum, nor will there be a charge for participating in any of the Main Forums; Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits; and Off Topic Forums. (HIV testing questions will still need to be posted in the "Am I Infected?" forum.)

You will still receive advice and feedback from our expert volunteers and moderators and the rules for participating will remain the same.  Similarly, all AIDSmeds pages, including our "How is HIV Transmitted?" and "Am I Infected? (A Guide to Testing for HIV)" lessons, will remain accessible to all. 

Instructions on paying for a subscription will be posted on Monday, August 27th.

Thank you for your understanding and future support of the best online support service for people living with, affected by and at risk for HIV.

Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Ann on August 27, 2012, 07:23:12 am
Tim Horn is trying to save the forums. It's as stark and simple as that.

I would hope that people will take this opportunity to offer viable, alternative financial solutions rather than only offer complaints and/or criticism.
 
And don't worry, we'll be vigilant about Am I posters wandering into the rest of the forum. If you see one, use the report button rather than respond to the person yourself. Thanks.

Ann
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: wolfter on August 27, 2012, 07:31:44 am
I think it'd be easy to pass judgments on the necessity of doing this, but I don't understand the behind the scenes dynamics that made this decision necessary.  I'm sure this action was not implemented lightly.

Hopefully, it'll lead people to fully understanding, or at least researching, the viable methods of transmission and the actions needed to prevent it. 

Wolfie
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: WillyWump on August 27, 2012, 12:37:36 pm

I would hope that people will take this opportunity to offer viable, alternative financial solutions rather than only offer complaints and/or criticism.
 

Ann

I absolutely understand the financial necessity of doing this, and applaud Tim for his bold Ideas.

But I wonder if charging the AmI's is a bit distasteful? I mean here are these people who are rightly terrified and in desperation reaching out for any kind of reputable help and consolation and then they hit a wall that says in essence "$9.99 before you go any further". Will this fee prevent some people from getting assistance? Maybe, maybe not. Of course,theoretically if someone didn't have the $9.99 they could just read through all the other posts and garner enough useful information to elicit an answer on their own. So yeah, I get it I guess.

Maybe it's time the members step up to the plate.. would it not be better to levy a charge on the actual members of the Forums, us? ( I'm ducking as the tomatoes are hurled my way) I would have no problem paying a monthly membership fee of say $5-$10. Im hoping others feel the same way, after all it is "our" forums. I recognize that there is a certain percentage of our membership that would not be able to afford a monthly fee, perhaps for them we could get sponsors or provide "grants" to them. I, for one, would be willing to sponsor a couple people on here.

Of course, I have no idea what the numbers are and Im sure both avenues have been discussed behind the scenes. Perhaps the fee on the current members would not be enough, maybe the best way IS to charge "AM I's" but it just seems a bit Odd.

Just thinking out loud here.

-Will

ps- and a .99 fee to hit the "Report to Moderator" button, there's thousands of untapped dollars there  ;D
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Theyer on August 27, 2012, 01:24:07 pm
Again, like Will just thinking out loud.

1)  $10 per month is $120 a year.

2)  This site/sites are world wide what is affordable in one country is not in another.
 
3)  I have no idea what the economics are off the aidsmeds forums are so am I
     receiving this valued resource at a huge subsidy or am I contributing to a site
     that is on the way to being a cash cow for some? Though I trust the words off
     Ann . So I am thinking hard.

4)  What ever happens I hope that the huge differences between individuals incomes
     is never forgotton.

5)  Its a sad development and I am thinking off Sir Tim Berni(aise I think) the
     inventor off the web who gave it away free. The web that is.

m
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Tim Horn on August 27, 2012, 02:12:46 pm
I'm in a bit of a pickle in terms of how much "behind-the-scenes" stuff I can discuss, but given certain financial challenges that have been brewing for some time, I was presented with a variety of very tough choices. Some of them, I can say with certainty, would have been monumentally harmful to the Forums as they are currently known.

One option was charging all Forums members -- I didn't agree with this, as these forums were specifically developed, more than ten years ago, for people living with HIV (much like the rest of AIDSmeds). Personally, I've always considered the AIDSmeds Forums, first and foremost, a support site for people living with HIV; everything beyond that is secondary to the AIDSmeds original mission.

Another option, which I'm happy to entertain, is to charge a subscription for the "Off Topic" forum. I was reluctant to do this initially, given that is primarily used by our HIV-positive membership and is, in itself, a source of support and camaraderie. If anyone has any thoughts on this, please feel free to comment.

Tim
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Jeff G on August 27, 2012, 02:22:29 pm
I wouldn't mind paying a reasonable fee for using all or some of the forum features .

I have noticed some free web sites offer a way to donate , perhaps a way to donate may be something to consider . Donating may be a way to avoid having to charge other members who cant afford a usage fee .   

I wanted to add this . When I joined the forums I couldn't have done so if it was a paid site . I'm not being overly dramatic when I say my membership here played a huge role in saving my life at a time when I felt I couldn't go on another day . I think these forums are worth saving , if donating can help save lives then those of us that can should consider doing so .     
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Growler on August 27, 2012, 03:03:04 pm
I said in another thread I was talking a break from posting but this is too important and since its 5am my head is actually clear at this hour of the day :-)
I suggest a one off fund raiser amongst members via a PayPal or similiar link on the forums.....email members telling them you need to raise funds to keep the forums healthy and provide a link. Leave the link live for at least a month as some might donate mutliple times as they are paid.
Afterwards you could explore other options to maintain the site on a long-term basis such as paid private messaging etc
GROWLER
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: BT65 on August 27, 2012, 03:04:26 pm
I think a way to make a donation is a good idea, as jg has posted.  A lot of non profits have this i.e. the American Cancer Society etc.   It may hit some people who come here just for information (from Am I, or posts about complications) and they may feel compelled to donate.

I think like Theyer said also, money is different in different countries, and of course that would have to be taken into account, especially if considering a monthly subscription type.
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Dachshund on August 27, 2012, 03:28:15 pm
Would there be a transparent breakdown as to how this money is spent? Before I donate my money I would want to know who gets paid and how much.
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Common_ground on August 27, 2012, 03:31:58 pm
I don't have any ideas on how to solve the financial issues but I would contribute if needed. The main reason I'm writing a reply in this thread is to stress how helpful and beneficial these forums have been for me.
I'm rather newly diagnosed and the information and support from here have been tremendous and of great value. I cant stress enough how important it is to keep these forums alive and I hope even those who aren't able to cover a mandatory membership fee (if implemented) can still come here, read, write and share knowledge and experiences.

Sure everyone agrees, just wanted to voice my thoughts. :) 
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: phildinftlaudy on August 27, 2012, 04:16:35 pm
My thoughts/ideas on the pay for play issue:
1) Definitely a necessity to have revenue - particularly when there are expenses involved in running a site, providing a service or product;
2) I agree that a "donation" option would probably generate a substantial amount of revenue. Some businesses, namely restaurants, have started a model that involves not pricing food but instead allowing people to pay what they think the food is worth. They have found that they actually make more money than if they assigned a price to the food;
3) I don't know how much money the AM I charge is actually going to generate - as I don't see a "per day" option - and would figure that most of the users of that area will go with a weekly option - if that. I would think that the actual revenues it would generate would only be about $10,000 annual, if that;
4) I think that the ability to search the AM I area is more than sufficient - I mean, honestly, transmission modes haven't changed, aren't going to change, and there is a wealth of information in the lessons and in the posts that already exist that should be able to answer any "rational" person's question(s) - of course those who can't be appeased will never be appeased, no matter how many responses are given (particularly if they are suffering from some type of obesession or other related disorder);
5) I do think that the fact that the AM I area has now went to a pay for service model sends an even bigger message.... there needs to be a mechanism to make the forums sustainable, if not profitable, in order for them to stay around for te long-term;
6) In addition to looking at a "donation" feature, I have suggested before, and would suggest again that S+S look at creating a foundation (nonprofit) arm which would then benefit from grants, contracts with government, foundation, corporate sponsorships, funding, etc. I would think that a cost/benefit analysis (on the financial side), a social responsibility and social capital impact (on the positive effect on community, quality of life, etc), and other type of STEEPLE model analysis could be easily presented to foundations such as Bill and Melinda Gates, Pew Charitable Trust, Robert Wood Johnson; corporations such as health care institutions, ASOs, insurance companies; and government entities (HRSA, CMS, CDC) to show the tangible and indirect benefits of the service the site performs, which would generate substantial income; and finally,
7) I wouldn't support making "Off topic" pay for play...as this, in addition to having AM I be pay for play seems to be too much of a piecemeal approach, and - to be honest - I don't think really addresses or provides for a sufficient revenue stream.

In regards to AM I - the implementation of the pay feature will probably be non-revenue generating when one looks at the cost for administration (i.e. processing payments made through PayPal) and surely is not based on a downstream revenue approach....

Would make the most sense to me to look at one of the following options or a blend of them: a) set up donation portal for whole site; b) set up a single pay per play for the whole site; c) establish nonprofit arm to administer site; d) shift site administration to an established nonprofit entity (foundation, institution of higher education, etc) to run...

I'm sure whatever path Tim and the S+S leadership decide upon, it will be well thought out and take into consideration the membership (past, present, and future) of this site, as well as its overall mission and vision.

Thanks for keeping the lines of communication open Tim - it is appreciated.

-Phil
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: WillyWump on August 27, 2012, 04:50:26 pm


Another option, which I'm happy to entertain, is to charge a subscription for the "Off Topic" forum. 

Tim

Hmm,  I really love this^ idea Tim.

Coupled with the general donation Idea (to cover those who need assistance)

Coupled with a fee in AMI after they ask 3 questions. In other words, they get 1 question and then get 2 more to use as replies (which is usually more than sufficient), after that they pay the $9.99.

-Will
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: thunter34 on August 27, 2012, 05:02:34 pm
If we have to cough up cash, are we still going to be expected to watch our mouths and "keep things in good taste"?
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: geobee on August 27, 2012, 05:12:49 pm
Hey Tim --

I think some kind of optional membership is a good idea -- if people want to chip in a few bucks on their credit card to help pay for the site, I'd be willing to do that.

Having run a few businesses (some successful, some not) I sure understand the pressure to raise money to keep the lights on.

This site is great -- thank you (and all of you) for it.

George
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: spacebarsux on August 27, 2012, 05:54:24 pm
Tim,

I also echo that these forums have been an invaluable support as well as an emotional outlet for me. I found solace here on more occasions than I can remember.

This has led me to thinking that I personally like the idea of donating more. It offers great leeway with regard to the sum a member is in a position to contribute as well as when they choose to donate or how frequently. It takes into consideration that a member’s usage of the forums maybe subject to the vagaries works, finance, circumstance and personal whim while at the same time allowing financially strained individuals the benefit of participating in all the sections of this site. It bears mentioning that for all present and potential members residing in developing countries who are likely earning in lesser currencies, paying in US Dollars can translate to disproportionately larger amounts (this doesn’t apply to me personally - just saying still).

Should a subscription fee for the Offtopic Forum come into effect, it raises the possibility that certain members might stop participating in this section and confine themselves to the HIV specific forums, thereby creating an ‘elite club’ who can avail of select services. Well perhaps I’m over thinking it, but it would be ideal if all could engage in the banter and discussion in this section, as members do presently.

Of course it isn’t an ideal world and since tight finances call for instant revenue streams, such ought to take precedence.
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Raf on August 27, 2012, 06:03:25 pm
I like the donation idea
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Tim Horn on August 27, 2012, 07:32:34 pm
Coupled with a fee in AMI after they ask 3 questions. In other words, they get 1 question and then get 2 more to use as replies (which is usually more than sufficient), after that they pay the $9.99.

I'm actually keen on this idea. While I still think there should be a pay-for-participation subscription for "Am I Infected?" participants -- the bulk of our resources are being spent in "Am I Infected?" and "Estoy Infectado?" -- this might be way to keep the forums accessible, help generate much-needed revenue all the while cutting down on the resources needed to keep this two forums running efficiently.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this particular idea?
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Dachshund on August 27, 2012, 07:55:29 pm
How much does it cost just to operate the forums? How much of the advertising specific to the forums is used to maintain the forums? I just hope there is a little more sunlight on the subject before people are asked to pay.
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Jeff G on August 27, 2012, 07:55:53 pm
I'm actually keen on this idea. While I still think there should be a pay-for-participation subscription for "Am I Infected?" participants -- the bulk of our resources are being spent in "Am I Infected?" and "Estoy Infectado?" -- this might be way to keep the forums accessible, help generate much-needed revenue all the while cutting down on the resources needed to keep this two forums running efficiently.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this particular idea?

Could you please elaborate a little more ... are you keen on the idea about the AM I forum fee as well a adding a way to donate to raise revenue  ? It wasn't quite clear to me .

The idea of members having to pay for off topic privileges is one I'm not so keen on at first thought , that's why I am leaning towards exploring the donation option except for the AM I forum .

Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Tim Horn on August 27, 2012, 08:17:37 pm
I am keen on the idea of pay-for-ongoing-participation subscription in "Am I Infected?" (and possibly "Estoy Infectado," pending pricing considerations). I will also bring to the Smart + Strong management table the idea of having a donation program for those who want to help (with the understand that some financial transparency may be necessary). I will keep pay-for-participation in he off-topic forum off the table for now. 

Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Raf on August 27, 2012, 08:50:24 pm
I like the idea of paying after 3 posts on "Am I Infected" and "Estoy Infectado" forums. It's more forgiving than to pay right from the start, and less work for andy and cia answering there.

Of course, I foresee many people trying to get around this, by posting on the other forums or creating multiple forum users.
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Tim Horn on August 28, 2012, 09:47:21 am
A revised pay-for-participation subscription option is now in place. All new members who need to ask questions in "Am I Infected?" will be allowed three free posts. Anyone who needs to post more than three times in "Am I Infected?" will need to pay for a subscription.

As the moderators have always done, we'll need to be on the lookout for "Am I Infected?" members posting outside that forum, along with those who use up their three responses and attempt to register a second account.

I'm inclined to see if the revised pay-for-ongoing-participation subscription service in "Am I Infected?" -- while also considering one for "Estoy Infectado?" -- will help increase revenue and decrease the need for resources in these particular forums before we do anything else at this stage of the game.
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: RWR on August 28, 2012, 10:24:05 am
AM has been a great help to Me when I have been scared and lonely. I would not mind a monthly donation. 
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: WillyWump on August 28, 2012, 09:51:55 pm
You people need to step up to the plate and get your friends a 90-day subscription to "AMI", They'll make great stocking stuffers.

-W
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: jkinatl2 on August 28, 2012, 10:04:38 pm
You people need to step up to the plate and get your friends a 90-day subscription to "AMI", They'll make great stocking stuffers.

-W

Gift certs! Think of the marketing!!

Be a REAL "gift giver" this holiday!

Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: phildinftlaudy on September 11, 2012, 08:46:00 pm
Is it just me or has there been a serious uptick in the number of posts in Estoy Infectado since the Pay-for-Play went into effect in the AM I area?

In other news... Google translator has also coincidently reported an increase in earnings and site traffic since the implementation of the Pay-for-Play in AM I....

Seems like the rise of possible - though unlikely - infectious situations among our Spanish speaking friends has been an unaccounted on windfall for google.

Things that make you go.... 'hmmmmmmm.....'

Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Solo_LTSurvivor on September 11, 2012, 09:27:21 pm
Is it just me or has there been a serious uptick in the number of posts in Estoy Infectado since the Pay-for-Play went into effect in the AM I area?

In other news... Google translator has also coincidently reported an increase in earnings and site traffic since the implementation of the Pay-for-Play in AM I....

Seems like the rise of possible - though unlikely - infectious situations among our Spanish speaking friends has been an unaccounted on windfall for google.

Things that make you go.... 'hmmmmmmm.....'

Fucking you makes me bilingual (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45157.msg554354#msg554354).
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: OneTampa on September 11, 2012, 11:24:34 pm
Fucking you makes me bilingual (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45157.msg554354#msg554354).

That will be 300 euro please.

 :D
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: northernguy on September 13, 2012, 02:33:03 am
Perhaps just a charge for the "I Admit, I Love Porn" thread, and make it no-holds barred, so to speak.  Which reminds me, I stumbled across one of Ardon Masters vids online the other week, Mercy!   :o
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: buginme2 on September 18, 2012, 02:42:26 pm
The number of posts in Am I have been about 10 to 1 the number in Living With, since they started charging (unscientific of course), the site must be cashing in!
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: Ann on September 18, 2012, 08:56:56 pm
The number of posts in Am I have been about 10 to 1 the number in Living With, since they started charging (unscientific of course), the site must be cashing in!

Yeah, and pigs are flying to the moon.

Maybe if you ask nicely, they'll take you with them.
Title: Re: "Am I Infected" Goes Pay For Play
Post by: jkinatl2 on September 18, 2012, 11:50:06 pm
The number of posts in Am I have been about 10 to 1 the number in Living With, since they started charging (unscientific of course), the site must be cashing in!

Sadly no. Looks like people are really stingy, and only ask the three free questions. I always encourage further conversation, however. Rather like a phone sex operator.

Why am I totally OK with that? Because the forums are still searchable and the science hasn't budged much in the last few years. All the questions have been answered, unless people start growing new appendages and screwing other people with them.