POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Someone I Care About Has HIV => Topic started by: Mimi1949 on August 10, 2012, 12:50:57 pm
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I am new and joined the forums today. I sincerely hope I am posting this in the right place. I have a dear, dear friend who is very sick. I will list his symptoms although I don't know for sure that he has been diagnosed yet, I believe he has and won't admit it to anyone. He just says please check on him, the end is near, that sort of thing. He is gagging/vomitting blood, has blood in both urine and stool,
swollen abdomen, rash, profuse sweating, all he has said is the doctor said he has a yeast infection and that is the most he has said about his condition except that drinking seems to help him feel better. He has had numerous partners throughout the years and I really don't know how careful he has been with them. We don't really talk about that aspect of his life that much. I feel I need to do something to help him without offending him in any way. He is like a member of our family and I have known him since he was a child. He refuses to go to the doctor and is drinking way too much. He recently had some blood work and just says it's a yeast infection. I think he found out he has HIV but I hope I am wrong. He has basically no money or insurance of any kind. His parents are deceased and his siblings have nothing to do with him. I hope I haven't wasted anyone's time since I don't even know if it appropriate to ask for advice without having any facts on his diagnosis. If anyone can relate to this or if anyone knows if his symptoms are red flags for HIV please advise or send me in the right direction if you can. Thanks so much for your time.
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Mimi,
It could be anything - and given the fact that he's drinking a lot, it could be hepatitis. (Keep in mind that there are many types of hepatitis - hepatitis simply means swollen liver.) A swollen abdomen and vomiting blood are symptoms of advanced hepatitis/cirrhosis.
Without actually knowing his hiv status, there's not a lot we can say about his situation.
All I can say is as a friend, you can be there for him and really, that's all you can do if he doesn't want to let you in on what's going on. He has that right to privacy.
Ann
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Thank you so much, Ann. Maybe I should just leave it alone and just keep letting him know how much we love him since he refuses to go to the doctor. I just feel so helpless and am so worried about him. Thanks again.
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Uninsured people in critical health conditions can usually be admitted to an emergency room. Have you offered to take him to one, and sit with him through the process and support him no matter what? Or has he already run through the emergency room on his own.
Nobody deserves unnecessary suffering. What his illness is, is besides the point, really.
By the way, put away your stereotypes about people who might be "prone" to HIV. Man, woman, child, and all the sexual histories possible under the sun.
Sounds to me like he is alcoholic and also that he is self-medicating with the alcohol. When in fact there are much better medicines available to ease his suffering.
Also, if it is HIV, people do rally and come back from being quite close to death, if the issue is met head on.
He has a right to his privacy and he has a right to feel he is doomed to death. But actually you don't have to buy into that inevitable doom, given you don't know what the basic problem is. People rally all the time from all kinds of critical conditions, but they need medical care.
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I wouldn't worry about the individual symptoms as much as worrying about your friend and his refusal to seek help. I have learned there are a variety of issues that accompany illnesses that can be defeatest.
Perhaps a heartfelt discussion about how his deterioration is also affecting those who love and care about him. My last medical crisis left me ready to move on to that the unearthly place but it was the sadness and sorrow that I saw in others that convinced me once again to fight. Perhaps there are other issues accompanying this situation?
I certainly wouldn't avoid the tough discussion, I'd tackle it head on and let him see the emotional turmoil it's causing you. Sometimes, all people need is to see their own selfishness. I'm glad I had that kick in the ass from loved ones. :)
But ultimately, remember this is not a problem you should own. Do as much as humanly possible, but also accept that sometimes that's not enough.
Wolfie
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Don't be scared off by the privacy vigilantes in the forum... Take your friend to the doctor. Ask them for an HIV test. Perhaps you can frame this as a wellness offer. Buy him a spa gift certificate and tell him your concerned about his health. Tell him you want to treat him to a massage, haircut, and checkup. If your friend does have HIV he needs to be on medicine.
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Don't be scared off by the privacy vigilantes in the forum... Take your friend to the doctor. Ask them for an HIV test. Perhaps you can frame this as a wellness offer. Buy him a spa gift certificate and tell him your concerned about his health. Tell him you want to treat him to a massage, haircut, and checkup. If your friend does have HIV he needs to be on medicine.
So, um, kidnap the guy? Isn't that a little illegal?
How about a conversation or three before the old "spa / clinic - switcheroo?"
Also, grown up people, unless declared incompetent, get to make their own choices. Painful though it might be to watch. One of those choices, sadly, is to deteriorate. Letting a friend know how his choice impacts others is about all you can do without a court order.
Or a rag full of chloroform.
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Clearly there is a middle road between respecting a loved one's privacy and therefore letting them rot to death from some mysterious illness, and kidnapping them and forcing medical treatment on them.
The middle road is just saying one's own mind on what is going on before one's eyes. Wolfter said it well. You got to talk to the person and do your best to reason with someone because sometimes the person is in a terrible funk, depressed, out of his/her mind, or terribly ignorant about medicine. Sometimes even ashamed to be sick. Ashamed to be poor, for that matter. To be a burden. So, incapable.
So really a friend or family member has a right to speak his mind and say enough is enough, get some medical help. And if you really are dying, die with some dignity. I'll help you either way.
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Don't be scared off by the privacy vigilantes in the forum... Take your friend to the doctor. Ask them for an HIV test. Perhaps you can frame this as a wellness offer. Buy him a spa gift certificate and tell him your concerned about his health. Tell him you want to treat him to a massage, haircut, and checkup. If your friend does have HIV he needs to be on medicine.
Really Josh? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. That being said, I agree and disagree with your post. I have a very close friend who suspected I had HIV long before my dx. He kept encouraging me to get tested because of what he "saw" that was going on. Weight loss etc etc. I refused to get get tested because I did not think I could mentally handle the results. (Guess I kind of knew). All of the prodding in the world got him nowhere UNTIL I lost consciousness in my front yard and had to be taken to the Emergency Room. He insisted I get tested and for the first time, I did not argue. The rest is history.
It's hard, if not impossible, to push or force someone to do something they do not want to do but speaking your concerns is always a good idea. Perhaps a better approach would be suggesting the friend get some blood work done, including and HIV test, and seeing how that goes. If the friend is resistant to and HIV test, try to find out why. If he is "afraid" to get tested, then deal with that. It will go much easier.
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Don't be scared off by the privacy vigilantes in the forum... Take your friend to the doctor. Ask them for an HIV test. Perhaps you can frame this as a wellness offer. Buy him a spa gift certificate and tell him your concerned about his health. Tell him you want to treat him to a massage, haircut, and checkup. If your friend does have HIV he needs to be on medicine.
Don't like this advice at all. Its better to have a serious conversation on the subject. If your friend might be HIV+ and decides to remain in denial then there really isn't much one can do about it. We are responsible for ourselves at the end of the day.
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Thank you all for your input. I have a plan and am praying it works out. He lives in another city in the neighboring state. My daughter is like a sister to him and he is coming next weekend to visit us all. She and her husband have a next door neighbor who is a physician and specializes in infection control. IF we can convince
him to stay over until Monday, we will go with him to see the doctor and just be there for him, unless he'd rather go alone. I certainly don't expect to go in with him and the doctor. He just needs to know that we love him and support him and feel like he could get better if he knew what was wrong and what to do about it. As I said before, I think he already knows what is going on by the way he keeps saying things to me like, "It's BAD, it's REAL bad." I'm not going to suggest anything that I think is wrong with him when I talk to him about this. I'm just going to offer him some help and pray he will take it. We are hurting here too, worrying about him and I know the path is his to take, not ours. If he does have aids and is ashamed and doesn't want anyone to know, that will be SO easy to handle since the people in his hometown won't even know he is going to the doctor here. IF he has it and tells us he does, he will be assured that we won't tell a sole. That certainly is not our place. Just from reading lots of posts on this forum I can clearly see that there are things that can slow this process and he can go back to enjoying a good quality of life. I know he has to slow down on his alcohol but I think that is the only escape he thinks he has at this point. I know he has done drugs in the past since he has talked to me about it. He could have contacted it that way for all we or he knows. It sounds like I have already decided what is wrong with him but honestly I haven't, I just suspect is all. Anyway, thank you all. Maybe this will turn out to be not as bad as I was thinking. At least I am going to make the effort to offer love, help, support, whatever it takes to see him through if he will only allow it. Lots of prayers here that I will find the words to handle this in such a way that he will accept some help from me regardless of the diagnosis. This has really been a burden on my heart. I am being selfish and don't want to give him up, he is like my child. He doesn't feel important to anyone but he is.
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Thats sounds good.
Please remember that HIV is a virus and does not have ANY morality or meaning whatsoever.
Any meaning or judgement is what people invest in it. Now you are wondering about drugs. You began by speculating about his many partners. Please try to remember that it doesn't matter how one gets HIV. Especially once you have it! If it turns out your friend is HIV+, just empty your mind of the how and why, please. This will probably help him.
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Yes, mecch, you are so right. I have got to stop any and all speculation. I know there are many different ways of contacting this virus IF it even is the case. Thanks for your input.
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For the record, I have had AIDS for twenty years, and I am doing pretty well. My meds are keeping the virus under control perfectly, with minimal side effects.
I only cut back on my drinking because it was making me fat. Also made me forget where I put my keys.
So very little of a person's actual daily LIFE has to change these days. Your friend could well be cheating himself out of a wonderful existence. I hope your plan works! He is lucky to have a friend like you :)
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Yes, mecch, you are so right. I have got to stop any and all speculation. I know there are many different ways of contacting this virus IF it even is the case. Thanks for your input.
That is very true Mimi. I've ALWAYS wore condoms and was a big advocate of using condoms even in monogamous relationships because, lets face, between 2 men fidelity is always hard...its already hard between straight couples, even more so in male gay relationships. But then I allowed myself to make a few mistakes with a former boyfriend (i.e. not using a condom sometimes) and what do you know, here I am.
Unprotected sex is a russian roulette, some people get lucky and some don't. If someone has a sexually active lifestyle and doesn't use protection that person is under risk, regardless of gender, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation.
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I've ALWAYS wore condoms and was a big advocate of using condoms even in monogamous relationships because, lets face, between 2 men fidelity is always hard...its already hard between straight couples, even more so in male gay relationships.
Edited my own post before hitting enter. I surely would have rec'd a timeout with my initial reaction to this idiotic statement. I hope some day you truly find a partner whom you love with your entire being and you'll understand the falsehood of this belief.
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Edited my own post before hitting enter. I surely would have rec'd a timeout with my initial reaction to this idiotic statement. I hope some day you truly find a partner whom you love with your entire being and you'll understand the falsehood of this belief.
If you think it's idiotic well it's your opinion. I'm a gay man who met several gay couples during my lifetime and yes, most of them either cheat or have an open relationship that doesn't always go by the books (i.e. a lot of times they break the rule of "only allowing a third person together" and have sex with someone else without the partner knowing about it). Maybe in America that might be different but where I live that's the way it is.
And I'm not saying this out of some bitter frustrated experience with a cheating ex-boyfriend...my exes, as far as I know, never cheated on me. That is my opinion from all the couples I've met. Not saying it's impossible to meet a loving, monogamous guy Wolfter...I'm actually counting on that myself.
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Thank you all for your input. I have a plan and am praying it works out.
That's great news. Don't worry if it doesn't go according to plan. You're showing that you care for your friend just by trying.
One of the unfortunate side effects of "HIV exceptionalism" is that medical diagnosis and treatment take a back seat to self-aggrandizing notions of patient consent, privacy, and autonomy. No matter how much rhetoric you hear on this forum that "You have to respect his wishes if he doesn't want treatment", as a lay person and friend, you are not bound by any limitations. You can nag your friend as much as you feel comfortable. He may put on an act and make you "twist his arm". But don't feel obliged to present the testing decision with equipoise. If he is endangering others with drug use or exposing them to HIV, you can also take steps to notify them, if you feel that's needed.
Good luck!
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One of the unfortunate side effects of "HIV exceptionalism" is that medical diagnosis and treatment take a back seat to self-aggrandizing notions of patient consent, privacy, and autonomy.
These notions are not "self-aggrandiziing." People lose jobs, friends, their freedom, even their lives thanks to unwanted disclosure.
Here's an article I read today about that subject:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/health-wellness/2012/08/12/stigma-hiv/OgEKEoRQ7ULYAH8deD2yZP/story.html
Also, your suggestion to out him to people he might be "endangering" is a great way to get a person's life ruined by arrest and imprisonment. Or killed.
Surely you are aware of that fact. You've been in this forum long enough to know.
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If he is endangering others with drug use or exposing them to HIV, you can also take steps to notify them, if you feel that's needed.
Good luck!
Notify them of what? Suspicions? Perhaps he has already been tested and is starting treatment but chooses to remain silent about it because he fears people might "notify" others!!!!!!
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What is "HIV exceptionalism"?
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What is "HIV exceptionalism"?
When an hiv-neg person comes on these forums posting gargantuan words they stumbled across in a dictionary in an attempt to prove they know more about living with hiv than an actual poz person.
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If he is endangering others with drug use or exposing them to HIV, you can also take steps to notify them, if you feel that's needed.
SurferJosh I know it's not your intention but when you write stuff like this it makes it sound like HIV+ people are criminals.
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What is "HIV exceptionalism"?
A new strain? :o
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I've always believed that "HIV exceptionalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_exceptionalism)", while well intended, is a double-edged sword and has actually also contributed to the ongoing stigma against HIV. But I guess it's one of those "between a rock and a hard place" type of problem. There was and still is a problem of people discriminating against people who are positive, so putting special procedures around HIV has made sense. However after this many years, the special procedures tend to continue the stigma and make it harder to nip the infection problem in the bud.
For example, if HIV testing was standard procedure when someone presented in an ER, we could find more infected people sooner and get them treated sooner; however that HIV test showing up on insurance could get someone fired from their job (of course, that shouldn't happen but we know that things like that DO happen) or disavowed by their partner.
disclosure has so many facets and many of them are very problematic.
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If he is endangering others with drug use or exposing them to HIV, you can also take steps to notify them, if you feel that's needed.
WTF. Why is this rather straightforward and thus far supportive and informative thread, for the OP, going to hell in a handbasket?
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WTF. Why is this rather straightforward and thus far supportive and informative thread, for the OP, going to hell in a handbasket?
I reckon it's because in this forum, similar to the AM I INFECTED forum, HIV negative people who might be afraid of HIV and ignorant about it's transmission and impact and treatment (etc) are allowed to post with impunity.
Those we can educate, we try to educate. Those who insist on perpetuating stereotypes, stigma, or outright falsehood, we attempt to remove from the conversation. It's not always a clean process, and sometimes requires posters and moderators with a specific skill set.
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I reckon it's because in this forum, similar to the AM I INFECTED forum, HIV negative people who might be afraid of HIV and ignorant about it's transmission and impact and treatment (etc) are allowed to post with impunity.
Those we can educate, we try to educate. Those who insist on perpetuating stereotypes, stigma, or outright falsehood, we attempt to remove from the conversation. It's not always a clean process, and sometimes requires posters and moderators with a specific skill set.
I still think its better to expose the lies and the bias out in the open through rational arguments than simply kick the person out of the forum. That way anyone reading this will be able to make up their own minds about said subject.
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I still think its better to expose the lies and the bias out in the open through rational arguments than simply kick the person out of the forum. That way anyone reading this will be able to make up their own minds about said subject.
I would agree, if the arguments were not directly endangering the welfare and possibly the life of another person.
This is not an academic discussion. This is someone's actual life we are talking about. I would certainly hope that someone would advocate for ME, using both rational logic AND emotion, if my life and freedom were on the line.
If you want a dry discussion, try the Research Forum.
And I have ZERO problems advocating the banning of an HIV negative person who seems intrinsically opposed to the extremely important concepts of privacy and respect when it comes to HIV positive people. Considering your posts in other forums about the topic of stigma, it is interesting that you do not share this notion.
This is not an academic exercise. And the people here are not going to vanish when you turn of your computer/phone. Treating the situation with the gravitas it deserves necessarily involves and invokes strong feeling.
Frankly, if someone who "loved" me was on this forum advocating the stuff like surferjosh has, from breaking up/avoiding a relationship with an HIV positive person to ratting them out to the public at large for what is perceived as a failure to disclose, I would ask aforementioned person to love me a lot less, and from much farther away.
I am sure that surferjosh is tolerant, even friendly to HIV positive folks. Which is a great step. But advocating the bullshit he has been advocating is dangerous and counter to the established purpose of this forum.
So yes, I feel passionately about the topic. Feel free to place me on ignore if that approach offends you. Exposing someone's bias and lies is a noble goal. If they are unrepentant, then removing them from the forum is also a noble goal.
This is a support forum for HIV positive people, not a debate club.
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This is a support forum for HIV positive people, not a debate club.
This should be incorporated into the Welcome Message on every single individual sub forum here.
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This should be incorporated into the Welcome Message on every single individual sub forum here.
(http://i47.tinypic.com/5fpu2f.jpg)
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(http://i47.tinypic.com/5fpu2f.jpg)
Ditto. Josh gosh are you for real or pot stirring for kicks ?
You are rather scary.
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I would agree, if the arguments were not directly endangering the welfare and possibly the life of another person.
This is not an academic discussion. This is someone's actual life we are talking about. I would certainly hope that someone would advocate for ME, using both rational logic AND emotion, if my life and freedom were on the line.
If you want a dry discussion, try the Research Forum.
And I have ZERO problems advocating the banning of an HIV negative person who seems intrinsically opposed to the extremely important concepts of privacy and respect when it comes to HIV positive people. Considering your posts in other forums about the topic of stigma, it is interesting that you do not share this notion.
This is not an academic exercise. And the people here are not going to vanish when you turn of your computer/phone. Treating the situation with the gravitas it deserves necessarily involves and invokes strong feeling.
Frankly, if someone who "loved" me was on this forum advocating the stuff like surferjosh has, from breaking up/avoiding a relationship with an HIV positive person to ratting them out to the public at large for what is perceived as a failure to disclose, I would ask aforementioned person to love me a lot less, and from much farther away.
I am sure that surferjosh is tolerant, even friendly to HIV positive folks. Which is a great step. But advocating the bullshit he has been advocating is dangerous and counter to the established purpose of this forum.
So yes, I feel passionately about the topic. Feel free to place me on ignore if that approach offends you. Exposing someone's bias and lies is a noble goal. If they are unrepentant, then removing them from the forum is also a noble goal.
This is a support forum for HIV positive people, not a debate club.
Actually this particular section of the forum is named "Someone I Care About Has HIV", which would roughly translate into a support group for friends or relatives of HIV people. So of course it is to be expected that a lot of bullshit is written here by some OP's, this ain't Living With HIV.
If the someone is decidely aggressive and hateful towards HIV+ then of course that person should be banned. But if it's just a matter of bias and ignorance then yes, I think we need to expose whatever erroneous information that person is spreading. Which is the case of SurferJosh.
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Actually this particular section of the forum is named "Someone I Care About Has HIV", which would roughly translate into a support group for friends or relatives of HIV people. So of course it is to be expected that a lot of bullshit is written here by some OP's, this ain't Living With HIV.
If the someone is decidely aggressive and hateful towards HIV+ then of course that person should be banned. But if it's just a matter of bias and ignorance then yes, I think we need to expose whatever erroneous information that person is spreading. Which is the case of SurferJosh.
We have exposed aforementioned errors. They have been dismissed, argued against, and ignored.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with escorting those who cannot or will not subscribe to the forum's paradigm out.
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We have exposed aforementioned errors. They have been dismissed, argued against, and ignored.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with escorting those who cannot or will not subscribe to the forum's paradigm out.
Well I have a feeling SurferJosh will have a lot to think after this one and his other post from today.