POZ Community Forums
Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits => Nutrition & HIV => Topic started by: randym431 on August 03, 2011, 06:21:36 am
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I just bought a juicer. You know, stick raw veggies, greens and fruit in one end and get juice out the other.
My goal is to get better quality nutrients inside me and lose a little weight.
There is a video on netflix instant videos called "fat sick & nearly dead".
A free streaming instant video if you have a netflix acct.
It is about this guy that was over weight and had bad health. He got a juicer and went on a 60 day
diet of only juicing. He lost his weight, got off his medication and turned his life around.
The thing he suggests for the average person is to juice for 10 days, then get into a healthy
eating habit.
All I wanted to know from any others that use a juicer, is what to buy for juicing, especially for the beginner?
A mix of items not so bitter as to make it impossible to stomach, yet healthy.
Anyone use a juicer on a regular basis? What do you like to make? Do you feel it helps with your health?
I know being hiv+ we have to be careful and not too extreme with altering the diet.
I just wanted some simple suggestions. Basically eating less of the bad junk foods, and instead juicing in their place with healthy foods, like home made juice drinks?
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I hope this juicer does not remove fiber and peels which are the most important part of veggies and fruits.
I make my own orange juice in a juicer (peels are not removed of course, they are rich in vitamins and pectin), but it takes a few days because oranges need to spend two days in salty water (for peels to get cleaned) :)
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Hi,
The most important concern I have with juice is that the vegetables--especially the ones whose peels are included in the juice--should be organic. Small amounts of pesticides may be one thing, but I wouldn't want the quantities that would be involved with that much juicing!
That is especially true with something like an orange peel--you want to make sure it hasn't been waxed, for one thing. It is true that orange peels have lots of good stuff in them, but I confess that I prefer to get mine in the form of my favorite marmalade.
I do not entirely share Elf's concern with fiber, but that is because I already eat decent amounts of whole (cooked) vegetables, grains, and beans, as well as fruits and nuts, so I'm getting all the fiber I need from my meals.
I think the point of juicing is to get various vitamins, enzymes etc. in quantities that we would not get strictly from diet, and, secondly, to get raw vegetables in a palatable form. There are pros and cons to both cooked and raw vegetables, so I try to eat both.
An example of what I mean by quantity. I like to eat raw dandelion greens by dipping them in a spicy bean paste/hot pepper/garlic dip that I make. But even in that way I'm only eat six or seven leaves at a time, whereas with a juicer I can get the nutrients, if not the fiber, of the whole bunch in one glass.
I have heard that one vegetable not to eat raw is spinach, which contains the anti-nutrient oxalic acid, so this is one thing to avoid putting much of in your juice.
My favorites:
Dandelion greens
Parsley
Kale
Beets
Beet greens
Celery
Cucumber
Ginger
Garlic
You can add apple, pineapple, carrot, lemon, and of course any other fruits you want to balance the bitterness of the other things.
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I also wonder about how some of these raw fruits and vegetables are raised and processed. So much comes from Mexico now. Wasn't raw spinach one item that they pulled because of E coli? And there has been many others.
Maybe this juicer thing isn't such a good idea? I never heard of E Coli in a Hostess Twinkie.
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I have not heard that it is bad to eat spinach raw. Care to provide some documentation, Nestor?
Also, I basically never drink juice. Maybe once a month. Citrus type juices disturb my digestive tract, but things like pear or apricot are fine.
I had a plate of delightful pea leaves sauteed with garlic last night.
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I used a juicer for about 6 years, not all the time but whenever the mood struck me or I felt guilty for indulging. One of the easiests things to start out with is carrots. Carrot juice is a lot sweeter than carrots themselves so it makes a good base for experimenting with fruits and sweeter blends. Tomatoes for a base is a no-brainer, too.
I didn't peel much except for citrus, because all the solids were retained in the spinner (and I would freeze those remnants for later soup or give them to my friend's bird.) I do like to lightly wash non-leafy vegetables in light dish soap, which helps take off the oil they put on a lot of veggies down here (not much wax used anymore because it tends to melt slightly on the drive home then the veggies stick together when you bring the groceries into the cool house.)
I was downsizing after ending a relationship and gave the juicer back to my mom about 9 years ago. I've been thinking about getting another one. I wonder if she sold it or took it with her to the new house?
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I have not heard that it is bad to eat spinach raw. Care to provide some documentation, Nestor?
I think that after what I've spent the last hour reading, I myself am less convinced of the claim than I was.
I first saw this claim made in writing--I had heard it in conversation often, and am surprised you haven't, except I suppose it proves I have too many nutrition fanatics among my friends--in Nourishing Traditions, a cookbook/ nutrition guide by Sally Fallon. She says:
Spinach also contains oxalic acid that can prevent calcium absorption. Oxalic acid is neutralized during cooking; so while cooked spinach can be eaten regularly, spinach salads should be eaten only on occasion.
Andrew Weil goes into more detail:
Oxalic acid is a natural product found in spinach and some other plant foods including rhubarb. (Levels are so high in rhubarb leaves that we don't eat them - they're poisonous). It imparts a sharp taste to beet greens and chard that I don't like, especially in older leaves. Concentrations of oxalic acid are pretty low in most plants and plant-based foods, but there's enough in spinach, chard and beet greens to interfere with the absorption of the calcium these plants also contain. For example, although the calcium content of spinach is 115 mg per half cup cooked, because of the interference of oxalic acid, you would have to eat more than 16 cups of raw or more than eight cups of cooked spinach to get the amount of calcium available in one cup of yogurt.
However, the oxalic acid in vegetables is broken down in cooking and doesn't interfere with the absorption of calcium present in other foods, cheese for instance, that you might eat at the same time. Calcium is available from many other food sources - in addition to yogurt, cheese and milk, it is also found in a wide variety of fortified foods including orange juice, soy milk and cereals. [my interruption--I recently discovered another source of calcium, but it's so wierd I won't mention it here lest it cause a tangent.]
I certainly wouldn't avoid spinach or other leafy greens because of the oxalic acid effect. Spinach has a lot to offer nutritionally: it's an excellent source of folic acid, potassium and magnesium, as well as vitamin K, carotenes, vitamin C and lutein, important for healthy eyes.
The two sentences which I have put in bold raise questions: does the oxalic acid in non-cooked spinach, in Weil's opinion, interfere with the absorption of calcium from other sources? And is it only cooked spinach that he wouldn't avoid, or also raw spinach?
The wikipedia page for spinach says the following:
However, spinach contains iron absorption inhibiting substances, including high levels of oxalate which can bind to the iron to form ferrous oxalate, which renders much of the iron in spinach unusable by the body.[13] In addition to preventing absorption and use, high levels of oxalates remove iron from the body.[14] But some studies have found that the addition of oxalic acid to the diet may improve iron absorption in rats over a diet with spinach without additional oxalic acid.[15]
Spinach also has a high calcium content. However, the oxalate content in spinach also binds with calcium, decreasing its absorption. Calcium and zinc also limit iron absorption.[16] The calcium in spinach is the least bioavailable of calcium sources.[17] By way of comparison, the body can absorb about half of the calcium present in broccoli, yet only around 5% of the calcium in spinach.
Of the four sources quoted by the article for these statements, one is concerned solely with iron and two are books not available online. The fourth is a paper by a Prof. Nancy Lowry of Hampshire College, Amherst Mass.:
Calcium binds very strongly to the oxalate anion, forming calcium oxalate, which is extremely insoluble in water. Because of the strength of the calcium/oxalate pair foods rich in both calcium and oxalate are pretty useless as a source of calcium. In addition, cooking does not wash out oxalate from sources that are high in oxalate and calcium...That goes for iron also, so spinach is not a good source of iron...."
Notice that unline Weil and Fallon, she asserts that cooking does not reduce the oxalic acid. There are so many contraditions in the writings on this subject, and so many assertions made without much or anything offered in the way of proof, that one begins to grow skeptical of the whole thing. One extreme example: I found several websites, all run by raw foodists, which make the exact opposite claim to the one made by Mrs. Fallon: it is raw spinach which is safe, and only in cooked spinach does oxalic acid become a peril. But I see no very powerful evidence of their claim either.
Googling "spinach and oxalic acid" I find dozens of articles on the subject. Most of them reject the claim. What nobody denies is:
1. Spinach contains oxalic acid, and
2. Oxalic acid prevents the absorption of calcium.
The counter-argument instead is that the effect of the oxalic acid would be too small to cause a significant problem unless one were eating spinach in ridiculous quantities, or one already had a calcium-deficiency problem to begin with. That, I suppose, is precisely why the advice not to eat TOO MUCH raw spinach (notice nobody, not even Mrs. Fallon, is saying not to eat any) tends to be directed to juicers and raw vegans: they are the only ones likely to eat raw spinach in quantities in which a problem could potentially occur. One of the people I found arguing against this "raw spinach is bad" idea says she drinks two tall glasses of spinach juice a day, and I personally know people who have gone on juice fasts and consumed more than that. That's the kind of thing I would avoid, just to be safe.
The vegetable juices I drink once in a while sometimes contain spinach, along with seven or eight other vegetables, and I don't worry about it. If I had the money to drink them more often I might have a glass three or four times a week. I certainly don't reject the occasional spinach salad--especially if, like one I had at a birthday dinner a couple of weeks ago, it comes with walnuts, carmelized pears, and a good chevre chaud. But for daily eating I prefer my vegetables cooked.
Two more things emerge from a half hour spent googling the topic:
1. Oxalic acid is present not only in spinach but in a host of green leafy vegetables, including the kale and beet greens I recommended, but not in dandelion greens. It is simply present in spinach in higher quantities. Only purslane and parsley (among things eaten by people) have more oxalic acid than spinach. I suppose nobody utters warnings about these because nobody is likely to eat raw parsley or purslane in such high quantities.
2. Two groups of people who should be more concerned about oxalic acid than the average person are those with kidney stones and those with gout.
Finally, I can find no strong evidence for either side in the raw vs. cooked debate, which is why I eat both; but somehow I feel safer with cooked ones. One incident that led me to be suspicious of raw vegetables--and thus more easily to believe the "don't eat raw spinach" claim--occured two years ago when a woman was taken to hospital in a coma caused by hypothyroidism which she has induced by eating raw bok choy. The culprit there was not oxalic acid but another substance found in brassica vegetables, and I remember that the doctor in the case specifically said that it would be better to eat bok choy cooked. But probably the real lesson is, again, not to eat anything in ridiculous quantities: she was eating two or three heads of raw bok choy a day.
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I bought a juicer last night - on Biscayne Blvd. in Miami ---- Dominican ---- best juicer around... mmm mmmm. ::)
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I bought a juicer last night - on Biscayne Blvd. in Miami ---- Dominican ---- best juicer around... mmm mmmm. ::)
:D hehe
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Gee Nestor, you expect me to read that Bible you just wrote? If Alice Waters serves raw spinach at Chez Panisse then it's all you need to know, not this endless conga line of quacks.
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not this endless conga line of quacks.
priceless.
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When we juice or eat any leafy vegetables raw, we use an ozinator to clean them first.
If anyone is interested, there is information out there about how it cleans the foods and deals with parasites.
The thing was cheap and shipped directly from China for $30.00.
Mainly I use it for cilantro as we always prepare it raw.
Hopefully soaking it in water with the ozinator putting bubbles of ozone on it works.
With that said, I was taking some friends on a tour of the area and stopped to have lunch at a local restaurant.
A salad came with my lunch and I stupidly ate the damn salad...... Like they wash the veges well!
Cheers from almost paradise,
Hoover
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All I wanted to know from any others that use a juicer, is what to buy for juicing, especially for the beginner?
A mix of items not so bitter as to make it impossible to stomach, yet healthy.
Randy,..
The main things that I bought were carrots, apples, celery, spinach, and beets. You could really make a concoction with these ! :P Juicing, can get expensive though, and you can save the pulp top use in baking if you want.
I was juicing quite often back 8 years ago. Now maybe a couple times a month, and I juice only what I am going to have for that day. It doesn't last long in the fridge. It beats that VA-8 stuff, and its healthier.
If you check on-line you can get some juicing recipes.
Ray
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Congratulations on your juicer! What kind did you get?
I am an avid juicer; I use it every day and really love it. I feel it is beneficial to my health and it definitely has gotten me to "eat" a lot more vegetables.
I mostly drink green juices. Here is a basic recipe: 1 apple, 4 stalks celery OR 1 cucumber, 8 leaves of greens (kale, dandelion, chard, parsley, etc), 1 lemon and about an inch of ginger root.
I recommend these books: The Juicing Bible by Pat Crocker and The Complete Book of Juicing by Michael T. Murray. Both books have a lot of great recipes and a guide to the juicing/nutritient values of various fruits and vegetables.
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My juicer has been in the storage cabinet for five years. After a while, the difficult to clean thing just sucked out too many hours of my time. Also, five dollars worth of fruit and herbs for a glass of juice? Not worth it.
But the carrot cakes I made with the trimmings were yummy.
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I have a juicer, but the only juice I make with any regularity is carrot juice.
I love carrot juice.
The rest of the time, I eat the whole fruit, or vegetable so I get the nutrients and healthy amounts of fiber.
I hope you enjoy your juicer. They can be a lot of fun.
HUGS,
Mark
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For the past couple of months I have been nauseous most mornings and vomiting a yellow pudding like substance 2-3 times a week.
The doctor said it was reflux and suggested I take antacids. My partner got me on Nexium and marijuana for the issue.
(I hate trying to function while stoned!)
Most days it worked and all was fine. Last week we found information that long term use of antacids was not healthy.
If you choose to look it up, google long term antacid use dangers.
One alternative instead of taking antacids is to drink 8 ounces of cabbage juice daily.
Cabbage juice doesnt' taste that great, but beets, carrot and or ginger helps.
Within 3 days my nausea has stopped! If this is working or coincidence I am not certain, but will get off the mixture in a few weeks and see how things go.
Since I have an issue with parasites, I wash the vegetables and also bubble ozone in the juice before drinking to kill any bugs that may have survived.
Cabbage and my Walmart juicer are cheaper for me than a few months supply of Nexium.
My juicer is over 8 years old and I will now be looking for a replacement one when this one dies from overuse.I bought the cheap $40 juicer to see if I liked juicing vegetables and am shocked it has lasted this long.
There was no need to invest a lot of money on something I might not have liked.
This is not a suggestion that anyone try this, only relating my experience.
That is all in my life today.
Hoover in hell.