Author Topic: I know why I don't shop on "Black Friday".... (Read 14676 times)

J.R.E. · « **on:** November 28, 2008, 05:02:31 pm »

Walmart worker dies After shoppers knock him down...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081128/ap_on_re_us/wal_mart_death

NEW YORK – A Wal-Mart worker was killed Friday after an "out of control" throng of shoppers eager for post-Thanksgiving bargains broke down the doors at a suburban store and knocked him to the ground, police said.

At least four other people, including a woman eight months pregnant, were taken to hospitals for observation or minor injuries, and the store in Valley Stream on Long Island closed for several hours before reopening.

Nassau police said about 2,000 people were gathered outside the store doors at the mall about 20 miles east of Manhattan. The impatient crowd knocked the man to the ground as he opened the doors, leaving a metal portion of the frame crumpled like an accordion.

"This crowd was out of control," said Nassau police spokesman Lt. Michael Fleming. He described the scene as "utter chaos."

Dozens of store employees trying to fight their way out to help the man were also getting trampled by the crowd, Fleming said. Witnesses said that even as the worker lay on the ground, shoppers streamed into the store, stepping over him.

Kimberly Cribbs, who witnessed the stampede, said shoppers were acting like "savages."

"When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling 'I've been on line since yesterday morning,'" she said. "They kept shopping."

The 34-year-old man was taken to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead at about 6 a.m., police said. The exact cause of death has not been determined, and the man's name was not released.

A 28-year-old pregnant woman was taken to a hospital, where she and the baby were reported to be OK, said police Sgt. Anthony Repalone. At least three other people were taken to hospitals with minor injuries.

Police said criminal charges were possible in the case, but Fleming said it would be difficult to identify individual shoppers. Authorities were reviewing surveillance video.

Wal-Mart Stores Inc., based in Bentonville, Ark., called the incident a "tragic situation" and said the employee came from a temporary agency and was doing maintenance work at the store.

"The safety and security of our customers and associates is our top priority," said Dan Fogleman, a company spokesman. "At this point, facts are still being assembled and we are working closely with the Nassau County Police as they investigate what occurred."

Shoppers around the country line up early outside stores on the day after Thanksgiving in the annual bargain-hunting ritual known as Black Friday. It got that name because it has historically been the day when stores broke into profitability for the full year.

___

J.R.E. · « **Reply #1 on:** November 28, 2008, 05:15:16 pm »

OH, and one more...

By The Associated Press
PALM DESERT, Calif. (AP) -- A shooting inside a Toys "R" Us on the busiest shopping day of the year killed two people, authorities said.

The violence erupted on Black Friday, the traditional post-Thanksgiving start of the holiday shopping surge, but accounts of what occurred inside the store were fragmentary or second hand and it was not clear whether it involved any shopping frenzy.

The Palm Desert Police Department received calls of shots fired around 11:35 a.m., Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said. He said officers were still investigating what prompted the gunshots.

Immediately after the shooting, about 20 people rushed into the World Gym across the street from Toys "R" Us, the gym's assistant manager Glenn Splain told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.

"They were crying, tearing and shaking," Splain said, adding that one woman came in cradling a baby.

"Some people got into a fight," said Splain, who spoke with some of the customers. "One of the guys here thought it was over a toy, but it got louder and louder and then there were gunshots."

Sarah Pacia of Cathedral City told The Desert Sun newspaper she was in the store with her two boys, ages 4 and 6, looking at coloring books when she heard a commotion in the next aisle. She thought it was people rushing to get a sale item. Then she heard three or four shots.

She said she froze, and store employees calmly escorted her out of the store.

"This is Toys "R" Us. There are kids shopping in there," Pacia said. Her son Jayden, 4, was clinging to her leg. He told her he didn't want to die, she said.

Toys "R" Us officials did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

Palm Desert is about 120 miles east of Los Angeles.

Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All right reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed

leatherman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 28, 2008, 05:18:06 pm »

for once, I'm not so unhappy that I'm too poor to go out shopping today.

emeraldize · « **Reply #3 on:** November 28, 2008, 05:49:36 pm »

I saw that Wal-Mart piece today and all I could think of was didn't the store have any better cattle chute plans than to enable elimination of a human life, injuries to others and destruction of facilities? A little coordination and a cop or two would have gone a long way to stopping this. It's the makings of a lawsuit when you know how people ridiculously "door bust" and do nothing, or apparently not enough, to prevent it.

I have never gone shopping the day after Thanksgiving. I generally don't care for shopping and so I definitely don't want to do it pressed up against everyone else in a lather over it. There is no object in any Wal-Mart worth trampling or being trampled.

Ann · « **Reply #4 on:** November 28, 2008, 06:25:50 pm »

Ew.

I don't remember the day after Thanksgiving being called "Black Friday" when I left the States nearly eighteen years ago.

What the fuck is wrong with you Yanks? Has the value of life really sunk so low?

Boody hell, is it any wonder why the third world hates all things American? Think abut it.

leatherman · « **Reply #5 on:** November 28, 2008, 07:07:54 pm »

Quote from: Ann on November 28, 2008, 06:25:50 pm

I don't remember the day after Thanksgiving being called "Black Friday

Has the value of life really sunk so low?

I think this designation has come within the last decade. I didn't google or wiki it but I know it's something recent.

And it's really not a bad thing at all.

It's capitalism at it's best. It's macro-economics in it's finest 24 hrs of the year. Today is the shopping day that puts many companies in the "black" in their accounting books.

America's economy would really be in the dumps without the results of today's consumer purchasing extravaganza.

I still think there had to have been a more suitable title for this day's business success, but since we've been living under a regime of fear-mongering in the States since about the time grunge swept through LOL, I'm not surprised the media went with this dark nomeclature.

unfortunately, after today's events, perhaps this name is appropriate now.

Oceanbeach · « **Reply #6 on:** November 28, 2008, 07:29:53 pm »

I read once that Walmart was busted for locking the cleaning crews inside the facility for the entire shift. But, large crowds of people trying to get in the store, even on "Black Friday" seems over the top.

I always think of my friend Michael on "Black Friday" because he and Paul invited Larry, me, Chris and Lori for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter and The Academy Awards. Michael did a lot of movie and TV extras work so each year we always had Best Actor, in Drama with nominations and acceptance speeches. On"Black Friday", Michael went shopping and you could set your watch by it.

We also went out for Birthdays and Michael was born on Income Tax Day, so there is one friend, I will never forget. All seriousness aside, the reason I never shop on "Black Friday" is because it is at least a week before the disability bird shits in my checking account.

Have the best day
Michael

denb45 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 28, 2008, 07:32:17 pm »

Quote from: leatherman on November 28, 2008, 05:18:06 pm

for once, I'm not so unhappy that I'm too poor to go out shopping today.

You got that right......me too

Texan38 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2008, 08:26:51 pm »

I went out shopping last year for Black Friday at 3 am...I thought it was a good idea to go out that early...I was sooo wrong. At 3 am I was late! Parking lots were full, lines were already wrapping around the buildings! I found a parking a block aways and when the store opened, I waited until the line was short...my mistake. I walked inside and it was soo crowded..I made my way half way through the store and people were pushing and stepping on me. It felt like a popular concert without any reserved seating. It was chaos! I was being pushed, it was hot, I couldn't step aside, I was tripping over kids, people were yelling and whistling for other family members, it was loud, people were grabbing at everything. I couldn't breathe. I pushed my way back out and told myself I would never do that again. Then I came back home and went to bed as the sun was coming up.....never again!

Oceanbeach · « **Reply #9 on:** November 29, 2008, 03:05:11 am »

Now, I have shopped on Men's Night and found the off the rack men to be OK. Buy 1 get 1 half off. Are the prices that low on Black Friday?

Have the best day
Michael

Seadickrun · « **Reply #10 on:** November 29, 2008, 03:41:42 am »

Quote from: Ann on November 28, 2008, 06:25:50 pm

Ew.

I don't remember the day after Thanksgiving being called "Black Friday" when I left the States nearly eighteen years ago.

What the fuck is wrong with you Yanks? Has the value of life really sunk so low?

Boody hell, is it any wonder why the third world hates all things American? Think abut it.

Its the American version of a European football match where people get killed. How many people get trampled every year at Mecca during the high holy days??? Crowds of people can be dangerous.

mecch · « **Reply #11 on:** November 29, 2008, 03:45:53 am »

This news is extremely discouraging. I thought people were going to be less shopping obssessed, because of the crisis and because they can see what rampant consumerism has wrought in the states....

Gary85741 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 29, 2008, 09:00:37 am »

These unfortunate accidents and even several deaths seem to occur every year at this time. I think the whole concept of this Xmas shopping obssession has become completely out of hand.

Though I'm not a religious person, it seems all Xmas is to most people is going out buying stuff (often that they cannot afford) for people, some of whom they don't give the time of day to the rest of the year! It's hypocritical. I guess everyone signs on to this behavior because "everyone else does"?

Also this phenomenon causes its share of trouble and hurt feelings...materialistic people whining or arguing on Xmas day to the gift-giver about not getting what they wanted, and/or who spent more, and similar nonsense. Then...the day after Xmas...the malls are flooded again by all these people returning the stuff they didn't want...it just cracks me up. So everyone's right back where they started.

Soon we'll see the usual reports on the news from the malls. People tired, hoofing all over, spirits broken, and bitching "Dammit I have twenty more people on my list I still have to buy for." So if all of this is someone's idea of Xmas...fine. I'll stay out of it.

To me...the spirit of Xmas would involve doing something nice for someone. Maybe a contribution to an AIDS agency or a community food bank...calling someone to see how they are...offering a few rides to a friend who doesn't have a car...etc. And for each of ourselves...how about a commitment to treat others as we would wish to be treated. These things don't come from a mall or melt down a MasterCard.

I know we're in a bad economic situation and I hope the retailers do well from those whose view of Xmas is a shopping trip. And my comments in this post wouldn't apply as much to those who have children. When I was a little kid in the 1950s it seemed Xmas presents were more for children anyway, which makes more sense to me. Geez if I want something for myself I go buy it...done deal.

Hope I haven't ruffled any feathers

Gary

GSOgymrat · « **Reply #13 on:** November 29, 2008, 10:11:41 am »

Lucy Van Pelt: I know how you feel about all this Christmas business, getting depressed and all that. It happens to me every year. I never get what I really want. I always get a lot of stupid toys or a bicycle or clothes or something like that.
Charlie Brown: What is it you want?
Lucy Van Pelt: Real estate.

BT65 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 29, 2008, 11:19:24 am »

BTW, and you all probably know this, but it's called "Black Friday," because that's when stores usually go in the black financially from people spending so much money.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that all Americans behave in such careless ways. Someone above posted something about Euro sports; I seem to remember watching a couple years ago about people being trampled to death at soccer games over there.

I made a donation to a local animal shelter that doesn't euthanize the animals they take in. I'm buying for my grandchildren, and spending a couple bucks on some other people. There's no need for all the hype and insanity for me.

randym431 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2008, 03:33:15 am »

Even shopping online was like a nightmare.
I got an email from newegg for some "secret BF deals".
Seen a few good deals I'd thought I'd grab.
The discount codes (needed for the price reductions) would not work.
Then I realized newegg is out in CA and the codes were not valid till midnight
PST on the 27th.
So at midnight I go to their site, and cannot login. Server is down.
This went on till 4am, unable to get thru.
Then at 4am I got in, and all the things I wanted were sold out.
Very strange... How was it I could not get in, but others could?
I wondered if newegg closed off their servers to certain parts of the country,
to hold down volume...? Or just what was going on.
Someone got thru from 12am - 4am, and bought up stuff. But I couldnt get thru.
Shopping online was just as nerve racking, just no driving involved.

allopathicholistic · « **Reply #16 on:** November 30, 2008, 02:50:52 pm »

12 pics of the incident

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/galleries/walmart_stampede_captured_in_pictures/walmart_stampede_captured_in_pictures.html

i realize this happened at walmart but consider that sears named their after thanksgiving sale 'doorbusters'

so that's indicative of the stupidity that corporate america has created for the public

and then you have members of the public who cant think for themselves - they eat it up with a spoon

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #17 on:** November 30, 2008, 04:10:28 pm »

Quote from: Ann on November 28, 2008, 06:25:50 pm

Ew.

I don't remember the day after Thanksgiving being called "Black Friday" when I left the States nearly eighteen years ago.

What the fuck is wrong with you Yanks? Has the value of life really sunk so low?

Boody hell, is it any wonder why the third world hates all things American? Think abut it.

This post reminds me how American ex-pats are like ex-smokers.

Ann · « **Reply #18 on:** December 01, 2008, 09:03:46 am »

Quote from: Miss Philicia on November 30, 2008, 04:10:28 pm

This post reminds me how American ex-pats are like ex-smokers.

Fair comment. My remarks were rather harsh and I apologise to anyone I may have offended. I was just extremely freaked out that rampant consumerism has actually taken lives.

Ann

AlanBama · « **Reply #19 on:** December 01, 2008, 10:33:35 am »

I hope the family sues Wal-Mart BIG TIME.   If stores are going to promote these yearly "running of the bulls" they need to be prepared for the chaos. That Wal-Mart wasn't.

Yes, Mikie, being poor does have a few advantages! (very few though).   As a friend of mine who is a housekeeper and I were discussing, I think the bad economy affects people like us LESS than others; for one thing, we are used to scraping by and barely keeping our heads above water. At least it's familiar to us; to those accustomed to being able to buy what they want to, they might be forced to cut back.

I do notice prices in the grocery store keep climbing up, regardless of the fact that gas prices are way down.

Every year, the Christmas decorations go up earlier.   This year, our town hung the downtown Christmas lights on October 1st.   All stores had up Halloween and Christmas decorations simultaneously.
Not only is this ridiculous, it makes me angry.   It's almost like telemarketers calling your home....the "forcing stuff down your throat" routine.   Instead of it all putting me in the holiday spirit, it takes the spirit OUT of it for me, and makes it even more difficult for me to find it.

Alan

Oceanbeach · « **Reply #20 on:** December 02, 2008, 05:30:27 pm »

Did anyone shop on "Cyber Monday"? I have never been much of a cyber shopper, I like to be able to pick something up, set it down and maybe come back for it later. It was on the news the other night, is it a big deal?

Have the best day
Michael

emeraldize · « **Reply #21 on:** December 02, 2008, 05:45:20 pm »

Nope, I didn't.

The holidays have become so guilt-driven. So and so is getting me something so I HAVE to respond. Is that what this season is about? It should be about warmth and recognition of people who are special to me, being realistic and not setting myself up for a crapload of debt in the month of January. Cuz that just kills the spirit of the New Year to start out in the hole. And a slew of us are already well in the hole.

I'm more inclined to give someone or an organization the gift of my time rather than shop for something. I've given four or eight hour blocks of time to someone and it's been used for painting, furniture arranging, cleaning, weeding, babysitting, snow shoveling, pet care while someone's on vacation, board meetings, neighborhood cleanups. It's memorable, it fits, it's flexible and can be used in increments, it's green, it never has to be dusted, insured, laundered or displayed because I'm coming over.

I came to this over a period of years of discomfort with feeling like I had to go with this flow when in fact it cramped my creativity.

leatherman · « **Reply #22 on:** December 02, 2008, 05:50:53 pm »

Quote from: Sonomabeach on December 02, 2008, 05:30:27 pm

Did anyone shop on "Cyber Monday"?

I did

After finding out I could buy a plane ticket from USAirways to home to NC for Christmas through PayPal, I had a few $$ left over. So I got a carry case for my new camera, and some new nipple rings.

Now my balance is $0 again.

mecch · « **Reply #23 on:** December 02, 2008, 05:56:15 pm »

Quote from: allopathicholistic on November 30, 2008, 02:50:52 pm

12 pics of the incident
http://www.nydailynews.com/money/galleries/walmart_stampede_captured_in_pictures/walmart_stampede_captured_in_pictures.html

"Black" Friday. Almost the entire crowd is African american. Jdimytai Damour, the man stampeded to death, was a black man, temporarily employed, to boot. At a company that pays peanuts and exploits workers. Everyone was rushing to get cheap Chinese goods, discounted further, we can assume mostly for presents for a holiday that is supposed to be about love hope compassion etc etc. USA just elected a black president.

The mind boggles about the metaphors, meaning and timing of this event.

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 02, 2008, 05:59:26 pm »

This is why I don't leave the house.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #25 on:** December 02, 2008, 06:33:47 pm »

Quote from: Ann on December 01, 2008, 09:03:46 am

Fair comment. My remarks were rather harsh and I apologise to anyone I may have offended. I was just extremely freaked out that rampant consumerism has actually taken lives.

Ann

Oh, I wasn't offended. I just like sticking you with a hot poker.

And I found it shocking at first, but you know that these crowd stampede things happen at sporting events too. Part of me says that a person should be able to observe a dangerous crowd building and disengage from the scene. I just can't think of any situation where I'd get close to a building crowd like that in any environment, and it's the same reason I'm very conservative about not wearing an iPod or similar device with headphones in a dense urban environment notably on the subway or busy streets. At the same time Walmart should be providing appropriate security to avoid unruly crowds, but from all news reports it doesn't seem that they were delinquent in this.

Ultimately I find it no more shocking than sports stadium stampedes, not that I go to such places or anything.

Ann · « **Reply #26 on:** December 02, 2008, 08:03:11 pm »

Quote from: Miss Philicia on December 02, 2008, 06:33:47 pm

Oh, I wasn't offended. I just like sticking you with a hot poker.

Hey sweetie, how big is your hot poker?

Ann · « **Reply #27 on:** December 02, 2008, 08:25:41 pm »

Quote from: mecch on December 02, 2008, 05:56:15 pm

"Black" Friday. Almost the entire crowd is African american. Jdimytai Damour, the man stampeded to death, was a black man, temporarily employed, to boot. At a company that pays peanuts and exploits workers. Everyone was rushing to get cheap Chinese goods, discounted further, we can assume mostly for presents for a holiday that is supposed to be about love hope compassion etc etc. USA just elected a black president.

The mind boggles about the metaphors, meaning and timing of this event.

Whoahoho and whopsie... do I detect a wiff of racism here? WTF does any of this have to do with the race of the new President of the United States? Fuck me purple, even I wouldn't go there.

Whoo boy Mech, you've got some 'splaining to do. Let's hear it....

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #28 on:** December 02, 2008, 08:30:53 pm »

Wow... just wow -- how did I miss THAT one?

BT65 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 02, 2008, 08:47:26 pm »

Quote from: Miss Philicia on December 02, 2008, 08:30:53 pm

Wow... just wow -- how did I miss THAT one?

I just read the post and I'm without words. What an assinine thing to say.

Ann · « **Reply #30 on:** December 02, 2008, 08:49:44 pm »

Quote from: Miss Philicia on December 02, 2008, 08:30:53 pm

Wow... just wow -- how did I miss THAT one?

I have to admit, I was wondering... (as one does...)

mecch · « **Reply #31 on:** December 03, 2008, 07:29:48 am »

To make the observation does not mean that I am racist. I saw the pics, and was surprised. I saw the pic of the dead man, and was surprised. Valley Stream isn't a black town, by the way, it's white, while North Valley Stream is quite mixed - all ethnicities. So I was surprised the crowd is about all black.

Rather than being a racist, I think I put all the elements together because of the contradictions. That this happened at WalMart, den of the devil, if we think about the negative impact that corporation has had on America, workers' lives, jobs, the economy. But a holiday weekend. At the end of a month of joy for African Americans. Obama as a hope to change whats' wrong. Yet a tragedy for the community. Watch the video, there is a fascinating difference to the way the story has been reported in white media and the voices of horror and compassion one hears in the crowd, as they try to resussitate the dead man. Before I saw the video, I only read stories about how the shoppers refused to leave the store after the police came to shut it down. My post is about the symbolic meaning of this event, if you scratch a bit deeper, rather than to say that its just consumerism and mob mentality gone tragic... There are other meanings. I'm not sure what they are but I will watch the black press to see. I googled and racist white blogs are all over this event.

So you can think I am "assinine", or racist, but I prefer to think about things like that on several levels.

Ann · « **Reply #32 on:** December 03, 2008, 04:07:01 pm »

Mecch,

I googled too and went through pages and pages and pages without seeing anyone else bring up the race of the man killed or that of the mob. Only you. I still don't get the connections you're trying to make, but please, don't even bother trying to explain further. Don't think I really want to know.

Ann

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #33 on:** December 03, 2008, 04:48:09 pm »

What's a "black town" anyway?

emeraldize · « **Reply #34 on:** December 03, 2008, 05:57:53 pm »

And the lawsuit, not surprisingly, is started...

http://news.aol.com/article/trampled-mans-family-sues-wal-mart/266921?icid=100214839x1214621539x1200948424

edited to add: Mecch and Ann re: easily googled links to racist commentary about this event, and there are more...

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/11/29/video-wal-mart-worker-trampled-to-death/ racist comments

http://angrywhitedude.com/?p=674 racist comments

http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com/2008/11/wal-0mart-trampling-dtragedy.html racist comments

http://gothamist.com/2008/11/28/li_walmart_employee_killed_in_black.php - read the ignorant posts following the article

Oceanbeach · « **Reply #35 on:** December 03, 2008, 06:16:09 pm »

Dear Santa,

Thank you for all the clothes you left under our Christmas Tree instead of TOYS. I will wear them tonight when I jump out the window

Have the best day
Michael

denb45 · « **Reply #36 on:** December 03, 2008, 08:25:37 pm »

Quote from: Miss Philicia on December 03, 2008, 04:48:09 pm

What's a "black town" anyway?

Humm, that's easy, let me see, Oakland, Ca, Compton Ca, South Chicago, Bed sty, NY, Washington DC...just to name a few

Ann · « **Reply #37 on:** December 04, 2008, 08:44:32 am »

Hi Em,

I googled the man's name and looked at every single blog (as Mecch had singled out "racist white blogs") and couldn't find one. Not for the first three/four hundred results, anyway. Dunno, my google settings allow for whatever, but maybe because I never look at racist crap (knowingly, willingly etc), well, maybe it just doesn't bring stuff like that up for me. I never really did understand how they manage to tailor your seach thingies.

Hmm... Looking through the links you provided, I realised something. The dead man's name doesn't appear in them. Guess racists like Angry White Dude couldn't get their heads around the man's name because it wasn't Billy-Bob.

Ann

mecch · « **Reply #38 on:** December 04, 2008, 09:11:25 am »

Quote from: emeraldize on December 03, 2008, 05:57:53 pm

And the lawsuit, not surprisingly, is started...

http://news.aol.com/article/trampled-mans-family-sues-wal-mart/266921?icid=100214839x1214621539x1200948424

edited to add: Mecch and Ann re: easily googled links to racist commentary about this event, and there are more...

Yeah those are the kind of blogs/forums where I read all the racist stuff too. Anyway, not to overemphasize my point. Didn't mean to offend anyone, it was just my surprise and observation that got me thinking...

Thanks for the link to the lawsuit article. Hey, get this quote from WalMart:

"We consider Mr. Damour part of the Wal-Mart family, and are saddened by his death," the statement said. "We have been in communication with members of his family to do what we can to help them through this difficult time. Our associates know that when incidents like this occur, we take care of our own."

Mr. Damour, in fact, was a temporary employee!! No benefits, no future, no nothing.. WalMart says it treats its employees "like family" --- ew a scary thought, indeed. Run for the hills... from that family.

Our associates know that when incidents like this occur, we take care of our own....

WTF??? Do they really think we have forgotten forgiven their gross behaviour a few months ago, against employee Debbie Shank?
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/03/25/walmart.insurance.battle/index.html

People shop in this store out of ignorance, or because they need to or want to have cheap prices. I can't imagine anyone with a sense of justice and injustice, and exploitation, who still must shop at Walmart for some reason, being able to shop there with a light heart or easy conscience.

mecch · « **Reply #39 on:** December 04, 2008, 09:23:33 am »

And nobody will be spared criticism.

In this article, the New York Times points the finger at itself and the media for creating "Black Friday" frenzy to begin with, to fill up slow news days....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/01/business/media/01carr.html

And the infamous:

The unemployment rate has remained low, at 4.5 percent. A recent report on retail sales shows a strong beginning to the holiday shopping season across the country -- and I encourage you all to go shopping more. U.S. President George Bush, press conference December 2006
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/12/20061220-1.html

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #40 on:** December 04, 2008, 10:12:45 am »

I shop at Walmart because its what I can afford.

I often go to ALDI first, but WM still beats most other prices. For people like myself, on severely limited incomes, it often makes the difference between eating relatively healthy and having pasta every day for weeks on end.

rondrond · « **Reply #41 on:** December 04, 2008, 10:24:09 am »

Quote from: jkinatl2 on December 04, 2008, 10:12:45 am

I shop at Walmart because its what I can afford.

I often go to ALDI first, but WM still beats most other prices. For people like myself, on severely limited incomes, it often makes the difference between eating relatively healthy and having pasta every day for weeks on end.

WalMart sees me twice a week. Just down the road so don't have to drive far. A brand new Super Target just opened across the street from WalMart. Their prices were outrageous. I only went there on the grand opening and never returned.

I have yet to find a store in my area that has lower prices than WalMart.

Gary85741 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 04, 2008, 10:27:47 am »

I also shop at Wal*Mart. I have to have groceries, and their prices are the best of the five grocery chains available (the others being Safeway, Albertson's, Basha's, Fry's.)

Employees who work there make the choice to apply for and accept a job. Otherwise, some would have no job which is a lot worse than what Wal*Mart offers. The stores pay taxes and financially support the communities in which they are located.

Gary

mecch · « **Reply #43 on:** December 04, 2008, 11:15:23 am »

Quote from: Gary85741 on December 04, 2008, 10:27:47 am

Employees who work there make the choice to apply for and accept a job.

Wikipedia has a good summary of the good, bad, and myths and realities of Wal-Mart cricitism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart

BT65 · « **Reply #44 on:** December 05, 2008, 12:03:17 pm »

Quote from: mecch on December 04, 2008, 11:15:23 am

Wikipedia has a good summary of the good, bad, and myths and realities of Wal-Mart cricitism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wal-Mart

Wikipedia is not a good source of information, being that people can go in and edit the information they want and put up their own information.

mecch · « **Reply #45 on:** December 05, 2008, 07:18:43 pm »

Quote from: BT65 on December 05, 2008, 12:03:17 pm

Wikipedia is not a good source of information, being that people can go in and edit the information they want and put up their own information.

I am a specialist in media literacy and information literacy. Wikipedia isn't that bad, and often pretty good. All media is biased, every damn thing anyone writes comes with a bias. Literacy means understanding what is fact and what is bias, and looking at several sources..

denb45 · « **Reply #46 on:** December 05, 2008, 07:41:55 pm »

Quote from: mecch on December 05, 2008, 07:18:43 pm

I am a specialist in media literacy and information literacy. Wikipedia isn't that bad, and often pretty good. All media is biased, every damn thing anyone writes comes with a bias. Literacy means understanding what is fact and what is bias, and looking at several sources..

Yes, but if you try to use Wikipedia in a collage class as the source of your info, and try to pass that off as factual, your gonna get laughed out of the lecture hall, and asked to get your source info somewhere else like the library, are some place more factual

is Wikipedia a good source for info, YES, but is it a factual place to get the correct info NO, it's not...........I wouldn't use Wikipedia to write a Term Paper or a Thesis

BT65 · « **Reply #47 on:** December 05, 2008, 09:25:19 pm »

Quote from: denb45 on December 05, 2008, 07:41:55 pm

Yes, but if you try to use Wikipedia in a collage class as the source of your info, and try to pass that off as factual, your gonna get laughed out of the lecture hall, and asked to get your source info somewhere else like the library, are some place more factual is Wikipedia a good source for info, YES, but is it a factual place to get the correct info NO, it's not...........I wouldn't use Wikipedia to write a Term Paper or a Thesis

True. One of my professors told us specifically not to use Wikipedia as a reference on our research papers.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #48 on:** December 05, 2008, 09:31:50 pm »

Why would anyone use Wikipedia even in the absence of that professorial stipulation? It's very nature is such that it can be contributed to and modified by anyone that creates an account. I guess it's used so much by now that most people use it and don't even recognized what "wiki" stands for.

Just for fun I'll use Wikipedia as a source to explain "wiki":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Of course, for everyday non-scholarly use it's quite nice. Even for course work it would be good for preparatory work, but not for your ultimate sources.

mecch · « **Reply #49 on:** December 06, 2008, 12:43:01 pm »

Quote from: Miss Philicia on December 05, 2008, 09:31:50 pm

Of course, for everyday non-scholarly use it's quite nice. Even for course work it would be good for preparatory work, but not for your ultimate sources.

Precisely! And since we aren't writing term papers about Wal Mart and Black Friday, we can certainly glance through wikipedia to get ideas what direction(s), controversies, key words, topics, etc, to pursue to develop an opinion.

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