Newbie on disclosure advice.

[mstevens]

Hey folks. I've seen the disclosure threads, but I'd like to ask the question in a different kind of way. NB. There are no disclosure laws where I live.

Well, after almost 6months of being single, poz and on meds I'm finally undetectable! Yeay. So, being undetectable and all, I've felt more comfortable to date again.
I had anal sex with one guy, on two different occasions, safe sex, no disclosing.

For me, if it's just a simple hookup online/ or a quickie I wouldn't disclose but would play safe. You guys have talked about dating and how you would disclose if it's getting to know someone slowly and in what I would assume is a non-sexual beginning of a relationship.

On the other hand.. what do you with cases where you've had sex a couple of times with someone, you haven't disclosed but you start really liking each other.. it just sounds horrible to turn after a few dates and after having sex  to tell omeone you're poz.  What do I do, what do I think? I feel upset and like I've betrayed this man I really like now and who has been nothing but honest and nice to me.

Thanks xx

[jkinatl2]

Well, in my opinion, if you like him, tell him. Not in bed. Not in a text. Tell him. Over the phone if you have to.

If he likes you, and wants to continue, awesome. If not, then you will at the very least be rid of that gnawing feeling you seem to have.

I've often waited until I thought the relationship was heading somewhere before disclosing. Been totally safe of course. Then again, up until REALLY recently I hadn't had Big Boy Buttsexs in five years, so that was not in the equation.

Up till now, it's gone fairly swimmingly. Been with my guy for going on nine months.

While I understand and have nothing but respect for people who disclose on or before the first date, for me that would be a means of trying to push someone away. There's enough HIV related stuff going on in my life that the conversation usually happens organically, sooner than later. My HIV doesn't define me exactly, but my activism sort of does. People connect those dots better than you'd think.

[buginme2]

 I feel upset and like I've betrayed this man I really like now and who has been nothing but honest and nice to me.

Because you have betrayed him.  You haven't been honest.

If I slept with someone and then began dating him and later found out he was HIV positive and never told me, I would surely drop his ass.  And I HAVE HIV. 

[LM]

I disagree, no one tells everything about them in the beginning and I don't see why it should be any different for HIV. But I agree it's not good to hide it for too long after being in a relationship for quite some time.

[jkinatl2]

Because you have betrayed him.  You haven't been honest.

If I slept with someone and then began dating him and later found out he was HIV positive and never told me, I would surely drop his ass.  And I HAVE HIV. 

I've done just that before. And I went on to have two five year relationships with the people.

What a tool you appear to be in that post. I hope you aren't really like that. Would hate to think this support forum has done so little for you except fuel your hatred for yourself.

Maybe it's you, Bug. Maybe it's God awful, judgmental, bigoted small minded you.

*edited to add

This is a support forum. You have certainly come here enough and bard your soul and have had people jump through hoops to make you feel welcome, to offer constructive criticism and suggestions without judgment. And this is how you repay that karma? Fuck yourself.

[Miss Philicia]

Because you have betrayed him.  You haven't been honest.

If I slept with someone and then began dating him and later found out he was HIV positive and never told me, I would surely drop his ass.  And I HAVE HIV. 

You're obviously a very compassionate person (/sarcasm) who, seemingly, doesn't understand the safety issue involved with using condoms consistently.

[Joe K]

Hey MS,

I think you are being unfairly hard on yourself, especially when you use a word like "betrayed."  I prefer the term "discrete", which describes just about all of us, when we first meet someone.  Dating presents a lot of challenges and for me, I'm not about to disclose everything about me, to someone I really don't know yet, until I have a feeling that they will not betray my trust.  You also don't know if he has been totally honest with you, because you don't know each other very well.

My suggestion would be to tell him what you have told us here.  I think an honest discussion, regarding your own hesitance to disclose your status and the fear of possible rejection by him, is about as honest as you can get.  He might even be poz himself, who knows.  You won't know until you disclose and I wish you the best.

One last thought.  Even though you have already been intimate, you both engaged in safer sex, so neither of you have risked the others health.  You were honest, when it counted, by insisting on safer sex.  If he cannot understand your reluctance to disclose your status, especially to someone who you have grown to like, then he's probably not the man for you.

You have done nothing wrong, nor have you betrayed anyone.  Instead, you find yourself in a situation that you didn't see coming... you are falling for a guy and you want to start the "relationship" on the proper footing.

Joe

[Joe K]

Because you have betrayed him.  You haven't been honest.

If I slept with someone and then began dating him and later found out he was HIV positive and never told me, I would surely drop his ass.  And I HAVE HIV.

Bug,

What an incredibly condescending judgemental post.  When someone like the OP comes to this forum for support, the last thing the guy needs, is to be judged by someone who doesn't know him or his situation.  It's one thing, to share your opinion on his situation, but it's unacceptable for you to judge him in any way, solely based on your own limited views.  I really expected better from you.

Joe

[lost_boy]

I think it's a very tricky one to judge. It's all very well saying "100% disclosure, all the time". But life isn't that simple, and people do react in funny ways.

I can only say, of those people I have told, I have received 100% support. Two ex-boyfriends once I found out, who have been great. My female housemate and work colleague, who has been a great sounding board. Any current partner, who I told after about a month of dating. We hadn't had sex, and I think he may have thought I was being kind of reluctant, which I was. So we just sat on the sofa and I told him that I had some serious news, and that it was completely up to him if he wanted to continue seeing me after I told him. So when I did tell him, he was taken aback, but glad I had told him. Then the next day he was said he didn't see it as a problem, and where should we go for dinner that night? Massive weight off my shoulders! Since then we've  discussed it a bit more, and he said he was obviously concerned, but more for my sake then his. Been going out for over a year now, and in fact I've just moved into his house this weekend, so I'd say it's going well!

So don't worry... you may have some negative experiences (I hope not), but I'm sure you will be surprised by how accepting people can be too. I know I was!

[Rev. Moon]

Because you have betrayed him.  You haven't been honest.

If I slept with someone and then began dating him and later found out he was HIV positive and never told me, I would surely drop his ass.  And I HAVE HIV.

That was incredibly mean-spirited and judgmental.

I am in a bad place (spiritually/mentally/intellectually) at this very moment.  Still I will say this much.  And I don't mean this to be a "show me your corpses" session. 

When I was much younger I met a wonderful man. We became great friends and then we dated for several months. We had protected sex.  Like Erykah Badu said a friend became the love of my life.  Several months into the relationship, as I cleaned our apartment, I started digging where I wasn't supposed to be sticking my half-Jewish nose.  I found letters that made me aware of his status (yeah, people used to write long-ass letters back then). 

Was I upset?  Yes. Not with him, but with life. I had found someone whom at that young and naive age I believed was going to be my partner foreva evah... Now I was going to lose him because of some fucking virus.  And I DID lose him.

Did I "drop his ass" as you so eloquently put it?  No. Because I loved this person and I have always believed myself to be a good human being.  Did it bring me pain?  Lots.  Lots of pain.  Some of the scars are probably not completely healed.

Did it teach me anything?  A few things, I suppose.  One of them being that I would never say something as stigmatizing and cruel as what you just posted. 

I know you couldn't give less of a shit about my opinions, but  I am seriously disappointed by you and your words. 

[Miss Philicia]

And I don't mean this to be a "show me your corpses" session. 

... now what can that possibly mean?

[mstevens]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies! It really does help getting answers on what seems like a tired topic.. but for those of are who are new to dating as HIV positive individuals it can be so bewildering, to say the least.

While I understand and have nothing but respect for people who disclose on or before the first date, for me that would be a means of trying to push someone away.

.
See, I don't think I would either. Not on a first date. Maybe eventually and definitely before having sex for the first time. I'd also like to keep my status relatively private.  I consider it pretty much my own thing and wouldn't go telling it to some random guy who might just react badly and tell his friends etc etc, especially since I live in a place where people love to gossip.

Buginme2: good for you, you being so upfront and all, but you have to realise I'm still coming into terms with the realities of being HIV positive, especially when it comes to something so important as sex and dating. We all  pretty much face similar issues: our health, friends, families, sex, dating, money and work but we all react differently and at different intensity levels. The thing that I did was to wait until I was undetectable (and not with a viral load of 85 thousand like a few months ago) to make sure that I minimised risk for others, as well as playing safe. Just to make myself feel better.

I disagree, no one tells everything about them in the beginning and I don't see why it should be any different for HIV. But I agree it's not good to hide it for too long after being in a relationship for quite some time.

I want to tell this guy, or the next guy, but I'm just scared of the way that he might react. Thinking back to when I was negative I'd probably flip and feel like I've exposed myself to harm without being aware of and agreeing to the risks.

If he cannot understand your reluctance to disclose your status, especially to someone who you have grown to like, then he's probably not the man for you.

Hey Joe. Thanks for the kind words. I guess it's not a bad way to see things. Still, I wonder how many negative guys will not react badly or will want to stay after you tell them you are poz. Not that I would want to hide my status from my partner. It just seems to me that I should start preparing myself for a fair bit of disappointment and rejection when it comes to dating because of my status;/

So don't worry... you may have some negative experiences (I hope not), but I'm sure you will be surprised by how accepting people can be too. I know I was!

Let's hope so!:) Here people are so scared of HIV and no nothing about it, which is what makes me thing that it would be easier to just date poz guys. Congrats on the relationship btw:)

You guys have made me feel much calmer. I've been getting loads of counselling as well, but I have to wait another week until I discuss everything with my HIV counsellor. I was so upset on Sunday.. thinking that no one will want me, unless he he is positive too and that I would always feel guilty for not disclosing my status or scared of how they might react if I tell them that I'm poz after we've had sex a few times...
Hugs. MS.

[LM]

I want to tell this guy, or the next guy, but I'm just scared of the way that he might react. Thinking back to when I was negative I'd probably flip and feel like I've exposed myself to harm without being aware of and agreeing to the risks.

I totally get you. But, in my opinion, you are the vulnerable person here. You should think first of your well-being, because you're the one who will end up with a broken heart if things go wrong. So only tell him when you feel it's right to do so and if you think you can trust him and that he is good enough to know something so personal from you. And when you do, if possible, be sure to educate him regarding HIV, or tell him where he can get info from. Maybe he will indeed freak out in the beginning, but with proper information, he may see things as they really are. Wish you the best of luck!

[mstevens]

I totally get you. But, in my opinion, you are the vulnerable person here. You should think first of your well-being, because you're the one who will end up with a broken heart if things go wrong. So only tell him when you feel it's right to do so and if you think you can trust him and that he is good enough to know something so personal from you. And when you do, if possible, be sure to educate him regarding HIV, or tell him where he can get info from. Maybe he will indeed freak out in the beginning, but with proper information, he may see things as they really are. Wish you the best of luck!

Thanks LM   Let's see how it goes with this guy, and the next one, and the one... Telling someone feels like I'm re-living being told about my own status.

I guess that what is also lurking behind all of this is an anxiety to not infect anyone else, or do to them what was done to me.

[Joe K]

Hey Joe. Thanks for the kind words. I guess it's not a bad way to see things. Still, I wonder how many negative guys will not react badly or will want to stay after you tell them you are poz. Not that I would want to hide my status from my partner. It just seems to me that I should start preparing myself for a fair bit of disappointment and rejection when it comes to dating because of my status;/

If you allow yourself to be controlled by your HIV, you will never adjust to being poz.  Dating while poz presents challenges, but they are not that different from what all people experience when dating.  I urge you to resist the need to borrow trouble from the future, when you have no idea as to what it will be like to date while poz.  Be careful in how you view yourself and stop seeing yourself as damaged goods.  I had a great relationship with a neg guy for four years.  Our needs wound up driving us apart, not my status.

Please remember that you are the same person you were prior to becoming poz.  Nothing has changed and if you are careful, nothing must change.  You simply have another facet of your life to deal with and how you present your being poz to the world, will set the tone in how the world will respond to you.

You have HIV.  HIV does not have you... unless you allow it to consume you.

Joe

[mecch]

Hey folks. I've seen the disclosure threads, but I'd like to ask the question in a different kind of way. NB. There are no disclosure laws where I live.

Well, after almost 6months of being single, poz and on meds I'm finally undetectable! Yeay. So, being undetectable and all, I've felt more comfortable to date again.
I had anal sex with one guy, on two different occasions, safe sex, no disclosing.

For me, if it's just a simple hookup online/ or a quickie I wouldn't disclose but would play safe. You guys have talked about dating and how you would disclose if it's getting to know someone slowly and in what I would assume is a non-sexual beginning of a relationship.

On the other hand.. what do you with cases where you've had sex a couple of times with someone, you haven't disclosed but you start really liking each other.. it just sounds horrible to turn after a few dates and after having sex  to tell omeone you're poz.  What do I do, what do I think? I feel upset and like I've betrayed this man I really like now and who has been nothing but honest and nice to me.

Thanks xx

Sounds like you are discovering that you personally don't feel comfortable not disclosing. 

Its pretty common for people not to disclose to a partner seen as just a one time casual fuck, or thereabouts. 

I don't think you should beat yourself up that this guy might mean something more to you and that you didn't disclose yet.  Since its not a legal issue. And you thought it was morally OK because after all you didn't put the person at risk. 

If you decide to disclose to him now, its also not your problem what his reaction is.  He might just shrug his shoulders.  Or it could be problem for him.  Who knows.   

Worry about yourself.  If you are really feeling horrible than I guess this is a turning point and you owe it to yourself to disclose to every kind of partner, from now on, thus there will be no more opportunity for the regret and guilt you are now feeling.  Course then you might have to deal with more rejection for sex dates.  So, either course of action, has costs and benefits.

[Dr.Strangelove]

I'm also still experimenting to find the right disclosure strategy for me. Most of the time I don't disclose for a simple hookup.
However, I have had a few situations now where a one night stand became something more. There was attraction and the possibility of that becoming something more serious. So, I decided to tell those guys. This was after having sex 3-5 times over the course of a few weeks. I was surprised about the positive reactions. I made it clear to them that this is something very difficult to share and the reasons why I don't just tell everyone. And of course reassuring them that they have not been at risk since we used condoms. All guys thanked me for being honest with them and trusting them with this information. None of those relations has eventually led to something more serious. One guy just disappeared completely after that conversation. That was disappointing of course. But besides that I was happy about noone getting upset about my late disclosure...

Btw, I don't know where you live but this was not in the US. More recently I was visiting San Francisco, met up with a guy and told him _before_ sex and he was all 'why are you wasting my time. You should have warned me before we met... bla bla'. What an idiot. SF was the last place I expected that response.
It's just impossible to say how someone will react. Everyone is different.

[klassykitty]

M,
When to tell is still a mystery to me, it's either to soon, or not soon enough.  Sooner or later you do have to disclose. I don't disclose on the first date, unless I know there will more dates.  But what works for someone else may not work for you. 

 If it helps any, the first guy I disclosed to a year ago may not have turned into a boyfriend (still looking for that.) but he has turned into a great friend, sometimes the friendship is better.

@Lostboy  Congrats on your relationship.

@ Bug  My ex and I were together for a year and half when he was diagnosed, I would  not have left him whether we were together for that time or a shorter time.

 Mstevens  Don't let some of the remarks get to you, everyone or at the least most on here has disclosed to a date or partner at some point.

Michelle

[contagion]

I always break my head over this and came up with a simple solution. When I meet someone, I quickly make up my mind if it is for a one time hookup or  I see potential. If I sense potential I don't sleep with the guy and try to see him a couple of times. Otherwise it's safe sex and forget about the guy. So far, I've only had like the rarest of hookups with no anal sex lol :/ Once I goofed up by having "fun" with a guy I thought was interesting, but fortunately he was just another douche bag looking to screw around or maybe a sugar daddy.

In your case I would  think about what would you do if you were in his position. Try to see the guy a few more times without being physically intimate? Get him to like you...a lot, if possible. Make sure not to fall for him...you don't want yourself hurt in case he doesn't react favorably. Bring up HIV in a casual conversation and see how  he reacts. You'll hopefully then figure if it's worthwhile disclosing and exploring a meaningful relationship or let him pass.

[spacebarsux]

In your case I would  think about what would you do if you were in his position. Try to see the guy a few more times without being physically intimate? Get him to like you...a lot, if possible. Make sure not to fall for him...you don't want yourself hurt in case he doesn't react favorably. Bring up HIV in a casual conversation and see how  he reacts. You'll hopefully then figure if it's worthwhile disclosing and exploring a meaningful relationship or let him pass.

This is too funny. How do you get someone to like you??  LOL Also HIV in a casual conversation is totally different to disclosing.

[Solo_LTSurvivor]

Also HIV in a casual conversation is totally different to disclosing.

Right, Space.  I'm just trying to imagine the proposed scenario.

Bob:  Hey, I think you're really hot.

Jim: Did you know that there are 230 people on the ADAP waiting list in Nebraska?

Bob:  What's ADAP?

Jim:  Simply put, a way for HIV people to get their medications.

Bob: How do you know about this?

Jim: I do a lot of online research.

[LM]

But I think it's a good idea to bring up the topic of HIV in a casual conversation, to check how the person feels about it. Something like "Hey, yesterday I saw a friend of mine I didn't see in a long time. He's getting married now... his partner has HIV, but he's ok with that and they are really happy and stuff, pretty cool. What about you, would you be in a relationship with someone with HIV?"

I think that's a good strategy, it helps to decide if it's worthwhile to disclose to that person.

[contagion]

Jim: Did you know that there are 230 people on the ADAP waiting list in Nebraska?

Lol that is quite funny! But I think as LM rightly pointed out it can be done. Of course his reaction doesn't mean  he will be okay with someone with the bug. But it certainly gives you a clue about how aware or ignorant he is about it.

[Miss Philicia]

If you expect not to be stigmatized maybe you should start by not calling your medical condition a "bug"

[skeebo1969]

  I'm a little taken a back by how this forum has become a podium that preaches and recommends nondisclosure.  While I totally understand the delicate nature of the issue.... The advice of doing so after the fact could have major consequences other than simple rejection.

  Color me surprised.

[Miss Philicia]

  I'm a little taken a back by how this forum has become a podium that preaches and recommends nondisclosure.  While I totally understand the delicate nature of the issue.... The advice of doing so after the fact could have major consequences other than simple rejection.

  Color me surprised.

wtf are you talking about -- what we recommend is using a condom, disclosure in and of itself does what exactly?

[mstevens]

One thing's for sure, you guys are making me feel much better and it sounds like itīs a really big issue for most of us. I don't have any HIV+ friends and no one else to talk to except my counsellor who will never, ever give me advice. Just ask me what I think I should do and provide a non-judgemental space to voice my concerns.. so thank you for that! Iīve avoided seeing the guy for a whole week now, just because Iīm undecided.

Please remember that you are the same person you were prior to becoming poz.  Nothing has changed and if you are careful, nothing must change.  You simply have another facet of your life to deal with and how you present your being poz to the world, will set the tone in how the world will respond to you.

I wish it were true. īBecomingī poz is life-changing, with good and bad changes, and even if things will eventually settle, itīs taking a lot of my energy and time.  I keep telling myself I made a human mistake, trusting someone who ended up infecting me and thatīs it, move on but itīs hard to move on when this is so big.

Worry about yourself.

I do worry about myself apart from others. Elsewhere I had posted how I came out of an abusive relationship and it still kind of there. The fear of being abused emotionally or otherwise after disclosure.

I donīt know how to get someone to like me either... I guess itīs all part of the process and sex seems to part of that.
What came first? Disclosure or sex?lol

disclosure in and of itself does what exactly?

I guess that disclosure absolves you, theoretically, from any responsibility. I told him, he knew the risk and thatīs it. But then again the risk is there for HIV negative guys every time they have sex.
Or maybe it is that not telling is kind of lying and you wouldnīt want to lie to someone who isnīt just a one night stand.
I donīknow. Iīve always been a bit "this is who I am, take it or leave it": this is my body, it isnīt perfect, this is my house,  you might not like it, but itīs mine, this is my job, it might not interest you but it does interest me. A sense of pride in myself that has been ever so slightly taken away when thinking about non-disclosure and sex. I wish I could be upfront and go; this is me, Iīm also HIVpositive, take it or leave it, but the risks seem bigger.
Itīs true that you can bring it up in casual conversation especially since I do volunteer work with HIV/AIDS.

[Miss Philicia]

you wouldnīt want to lie to someone who isnīt just a one night stand.

So then, by that measure, if all one intends to do is have years of one night stands, sex club liasons, etc. this issue is moot?

Or further, when you pick a guy up at a bar do you know before taking him home with you that it's going to be a prospective boyfriend or just a one nighter?

[Joe K]

I donīknow. Iīve always been a bit "this is who I am, take it or leave it": this is my body, it isnīt perfect, this is my house,  you might not like it, but itīs mine, this is my job, it might not interest you but it does interest me. A sense of pride in myself that has been ever so slightly taken away when thinking about non-disclosure and sex. I wish I could be upfront and go; this is me, Iīm also HIVpositive, take it or leave it, but the risks seem bigger.

To me, the bigger risk is to deny who you really are.  You are poz for life and while you don't have to wear it like a badge, it's now a part of you.  I assume you want people who accept you for who you really are and the only way for that to happen is if you are comfortable with who you are.  It's still new to you, so try and just feel what you feel and don't be too concerned with what it all means right now.  You still need time to adjust, so take is slow.

One last caveat, beware of playing the "What If" game.  That's where you ponder every permutation of a situation.  What if I had done this?  What if I been more careful?  What if...?  What if...?  What if...? It's enough to overwhelm anyone and it serves no good purpose.  I call it "borrowing trouble from the future" because you are worrying about things that may or may not ever occur.  No matter how hard you try, you also cannot change the past.  Wishing something will not make it real, it's defeatist logic and it does nothing to help heal you, so just be aware.

Believe me my friend, it does get better.

Joe

[ds4146]

If you expect not to be stigmatized maybe you should start by not calling your medical condition a "bug"

Could we not say the same about having "teh Aids" which is so frequently bantered around here? I hate that term and the usage. Maybe we should all stop calling our medical condition, if we have it, teh AIDs. Even spell check on this site wants to correct me, 

[mecch]

Could we not say the same about having "teh Aids" which is so frequently bantered around here? I hate that term and the usage. Maybe we should all stop calling our medical condition, if we have it, teh AIDs. Even spell check on this site wants to correct me, 

We can say it to each other. You know how that works, right?
It's like all gays being allowed to call each other Mary.
And we're not hunting for lovers here.
And the ones who never had an AIDS diagnosis probably don't say it often to others here.
People who say it are usually "speaking" what we think is a lamentable and frequent general public opinion about HIV+ people.   

[Jeff G]

Could we not say the same about having "teh Aids" which is so frequently bantered around here? I hate that term and the usage. Maybe we should all stop calling our medical condition, if we have it, teh AIDs. Even spell check on this site wants to correct me, 

Whats a matter , is your butt cooties making ya cranky .

[Joe K]

Could we not say the same about having "teh Aids" which is so frequently bantered around here? I hate that term and the usage. Maybe we should all stop calling our medical condition, if we have it, teh AIDs. Even spell check on this site wants to correct me, 

The majority of us who say we have teh AIDs, have had teh AIDs for decades.  If you can't appreciate the role of humour in dealing with HIV, you are in a for a hell of a long ride.

Joe

[ds4146]

Wow! Not sure what the difference is between having the "bug" and having "teh aids", but clearly a few bugs up a few butts tonight.

And Joe, really, my response was to the difference between using the word bug and teh aids and not the length of time someone has lived with either HIV or AIDS. We are not looking for medals here, are we?

[leatherman]

actually calling HIV the "bug" and talking about "teh AIDS" are vastly different things because AIDS is a heckuva lot different from HIV. Since they are so different, let me say a few words about "teh AIDS" which has nothing at all to do with you calling your HIV "the bug".

Could we not say the same about having "teh Aids" which is so frequently bantered around here?

some of us haven't been so lucky to just have "teh HIV"; some of us have had to live with "teh AIDS". To be bluntly honest, some people who whine, cry and worry about dealing with HIV just don't know the half of what it's like trying to hang onto life when the HIV turns to AIDS. Count your blessings if you've never had teh AIDS.

People who say it are usually "speaking" what we think is a lamentable and frequent general public opinion about HIV+ people.   

I actually think "teh AIDS" is used more in the vein of "black humor".

Anyone that's actually had to live with AIDS (the sickness, the misery, the medical and financial issues, death hanging over your head, and for some of us the death that took many of those around us) probably suffers from PTSD and using some shorthand for that miserable time in our life negates some of the horribleness of when we were really suffering with the disease.

With the notion of not letting HIV define you, personally I like stripping away all the power HIV had over me for 15 year when I laid nearly dying in a hospital several times, when I was puking every day, when I weighed 110 and was being consumed by thrush and PCP, by blowing all that off as "back when I had teh AIDS".

[Raf]

I didn't know that it was so hard to grasp the significance of the expression "teh aids" in the forums, I've been only one year and I did it, and I even began to use it. It must be because my initial aids dx, and to refer to it as black humor like leatherman said. And I was fortunate to catch it in an "early stage" before developing more severe OI later (I've seen people with PCP...it's horrible, and I admire those of you that overcome OI like that).

Ah well...enough rambling, to the point. mstevens, you seem to be dealing well with the dating subject after all. I am the last person in the world who should give you dating advice (My right hand asked me for a dinner last valentine's day lol  ) but wheter you say before the first sex encounters, or after some encounters..I think it's important to say it before the relationship develops further, Honesty is a good solid base for the beginning of any relationship.

[water duck]

The first bang on the head is when the doc tell you your status , the 2nd is when you tell your BF{been together 1year and 8mths} of the moment your status and the phone stop ringing {sorry i am busy} the FEAR OF REJECTION got installed !!

You mentioned two times and safe sex , you are NOT CHEATING the fellow infront of you - you just taking your time.

WHY don't you = Joe this is the third time we are seeing each other and i feel there is something special developing , but i need to tell you i am positive, (you might be very surprised to get = so AM I as answer.....................

THERE is no fix rule !! JUST listen to what your heart say !! afterall , it is private !!
it is between him and you !!