POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: John2038 on December 03, 2007, 11:18:42 am
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Thanks God.
CD4 / VL / %
Sept 26 (pm): 509 / 1732 / 18.7%
Nov 7 (am): 381 / 5030 / 17.2%
Nov 12 (pm): 543 / - / 18.2%
Nov 19 (am): 364 / - / 24.29%
Nov 20 (pm) : 487 / 3371 / 18.03% (follow-up -pm)
Nov 21 (am): 483 / 3300 / 18.2%
Dec 02 (pm): 608 /PENDING/ 20.49%
Neutrophilis x10^9/L (reference = 2.0-7.5)
Sept 26, 2007 26% 1.32
Nov 07, 2007 8.4% 0.29
Nov 14, 2007 14.3% 0.62
Nov 17, 2007 24.5% 0.77
Nov 21, 2007 28.2% 1.62
Dec 02, 2007 37.2% 2.10
Lymphocytes x10^9/L (reference = 1.0-4.0)
Sept 26, 2007 65.0% 3.29
Nov 07, 2007 74.8% 2.63
Nov 14, 2007 72.6% 3.14
Nov 17, 2007 63.4% 1.99
Nov 21, 2007 65.1% 3.74
Dec 02, 2007 54.6% 3.08
Wishing you great labs as well !
Note: Wondering if the Selenium + Zinc + Buchu taken since 2-3 weeks have contribute to this increases.
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Congrats! The little buggers do bounce around, don't they? Like with yours I've also noticed that I seem to get higher CD4 counts in the PM than in the AM. Why that would be, I have no idea...
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Yours are great as well :) Same as 1 year ago
Indeed, on the afternoon, the counts looks much better.
But I will continue to alternate, to know the range.
Just curious, have we have comparable counts:
What are your criteria to consider taking meds ?
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My conclusion is to start when there is a consistent CD4 trend at 350 or below and/or a VL consistently >100,000. Of course, this is how I want to handle it for my own care - others may well feel very differently.
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Mini and Mum are baking a cake to celebrate all the awesome labs that have come through recently. John, we're decorating yours with loads of germ-free moochies :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Thank's Mini and Mum ! :-* :-*
John, who is wondering what a moochie is
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Congrats on the good numbers!
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Way to go, John. You got a really good holiday present and EARLY.
Cheers,
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John,
moochie=big, wet, messy smoochies (kisses) :-* :-* :-*
Our's, of course, are cootie (germ)-free ;D
Mum
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Thanks David, Andy and minismom :)
Otherwise, VL not good: 17'132
The end of the pseudo immunity I guess.
Jan 01, 08 will start med if the VL doesn't decrease.
But happy to have the neutrophilis back in the standard range.
That was a major point of concern.
God bless you all.
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John, only increases in VL that vary by more than one log (10 times more or less than the previous result) are significant. An increase from 3K to 17K is therefore not significant (but 30K+ would have been). The new figure is in any event still a relatively low VL.
Glad to hear about the neutrophilis... ;)
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keyite
Assuming people are doing their test every 3 months, then I got an increase by 10 in 2 months:
Sept 26 (pm): 509 / 1732 / 18.7%
Dec 02 (pm): 608 /17132/ 20.49%
No ?
Note
About your counts, you are very Zen aren't you ? :)
03/07 370 30 240,000
05/07 394 25 86,828
You did the next test 2 months later.
And you was right:
11/07 444 33 20,000
Congratulations !!
General questions
1) Does the fact to not be on meds have any impact on the resistance ?
2) How long time does it take in average before becoming resitant to a combo ?
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Congratulations, John!
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Assuming people are doing their test every 3 months, then I got an increase by 10 in 2 months:
Sept 26 (pm): 509 / 1732 / 18.7%
Dec 02 (pm): 608 /17132/ 20.49%
No ?
True, but you forget numbers have gone up and down in between those two figures. There isn't a trend forming yet. I know it's easy to get blinded by these numbers but try not to read too much into them. There is a fair margin of error to the viral load test, numbers naturally jump around a fair bit, and you are still very much at the low of viral loads. I'd worry if you were >100,000 - you're thankfully nowhere near.
About your counts, you are very Zen aren't you ? :)
You think? Not feeling particularly 'zen' this evening... :-\ But if anything, my numbers illustrate just how much VL can bounce around.
1) Does the fact to not be on meds have any impact on the resistance ?
2) How long time does it take in average before becoming resitant to a combo ?
1. The virus mutates constantly, so I guess it is possible to develop resistance whilst not on meds but I don't think it's something that happens often.
2. Varies hugely, so I think an average probably will be pretty useless to individual care. Some it could be just months, others decades. Spoke to a bloke the other day who'd been on the same combo for 12 years.
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keyite
As we have comparable counts, I was just willing to share a very personal opinion about when to start a treatment:
I believe treatment must be started straight away after the diagnosis, even for CD4>500 and VL<100k
That was my feeling on Oct 10th,
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16211.msg205969#msg205969
and I have use the time since to get a better idea if its really a good idea.
In more, I was hoping my VL to remind below 5k, and delaying a treatment due to the very low level of neutrophilis (was 290 1 month ago, 2100 today).
Well, I can't demonstrate this feeling of course.
But a virus is damaging the immune system, whatever the CD4 are.
Also, it's the door open to OI and non-OI disease, including brain damage.
I don't know if the CD4 the lab is returning is about healthy CD4 or all CD4, including those infected.
But I believe its the latter, making this count meaningless.
Another point is that the most recents studies never denies that an earlier treatment is an option.
Many SMART study reports goes in that direction as well (starting at CD4>500, or straight away after the diagnosis).
Again, its a very personal point of view, and everybody will have his own idea.
I was just willing to share mine.
Good Luck to all of us, whatever is our choice.
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John, that's certainly a school of thought which is gaining a following and you should absolutely follow your instinct - it is your body, after all.
I obviously misunderstood what you wrote because I thought you were basing the decision on whether to initiate treatment on your viral load - obviously this factor doesn't really matter, since you'd want to start anyway. Good luck with it! :)