"They are men and know what honour is."

[Matty the Damned]

'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

For Abdel-Qader Ali there is only one regret: that he did not kill his daughter at birth. 'If I had realised then what she would become, I would have killed her the instant her mother delivered her,' he said with no trace of remorse.

Two weeks after The Observer revealed the shocking story of Rand Abdel-Qader, 17, murdered because of her infatuation with a British soldier in Basra, southern Iraq, her father is defiant. Sitting in the front garden of his well-kept home in the city's Al-Fursi district, he remains a free man, despite having stamped on, suffocated and then stabbed his student daughter to death.

Abdel-Qader, 46, a government employee, was initially arrested but released after two hours. Astonishingly, he said, police congratulated him on what he had done. 'They are men and know what honour is,' he said.

(source)

MtD

[chm02]

Disgusting. Gives new depth and pungency to the term "heathen".

[BlueMoon]

It's good to know that all the money and all the lives that we've expended over there in the last five years haven't been in vain.

Mission accomplished!

[Jody]

I read about that as well, it was terribly sad that a young woman or even a man cannot speak to whomever they please, realistically it won't be long before the Taliban, Al Quada and groups such as Hezbollah control much if not all the Middle East.  All the lives lost and the billions (trillions???) spent there will turn out to be in vain, democracy or the promise of such short lived I'm afraid and when the suicidal lunatics get their hands on nukes, which they eventually figure to do, we are all in trouble.

Jody 

[thunter34]

So he's swearing God will reward him for what he's done while the mother is vowing that God will punish him either in this life or the one hereafter.

God sure has a lot of exlaining to do.

[BT65]

Wow.  That's really all I can think of saying after reading that.

[Queen Tokelove]

Not much of a surprise to me, the world is a fucked up place for whatever reason....

[AlanBama]

too bad his daughter didn't have a shot gun with her...

of course, she would probably have been imprisoned immediately, or executed..

[AndyArrow]

How truly disgusting. 

I just finished reading INFIDEL by Ayaan Hirsi Ali who was born in Somalia and escaped and eventually became a member of the dutch parliament.  It is amazing what people will do in the name of religion.

[Dragonette]

"Honor" killings continue to take place even in countries where they're legally treated as murder and the offenders get life imprisonment. It's not necessarily because the guy was British. Ces't la (Muslim) vie...

[Matty the Damned]

Matty the Damned is no fan of islam and he would like nothing more than to be able to slate the responsibility for this atrocity home to the muslamaniacs.

Unfortunately it's not that simple.

Honour killings are a cultural phenomena, which predate the establishment of islam, christianity or any other iron-age supertition at which one cares to raise a smug and deftly shaped eyebrow.

For example, consider the ghastly demise of Doaa Khalil Aswad a young woman of the Yazidi religious minority who was stoned to death last year at the behest of her male relatives because she dared to fancy a muslim lad.

The vile wench.

For the perverse amongst us, it's possible to download the grainy footage of her dreadful death.

Or what of Faten Habash, a Palestinian christian lass who also loved a muslim lad? She was tormented by her outraged male family members because of her misplaced affections. Her father tricked her into coming home and then:

. . . as Faten watched a Boy Scouts parade from the balcony of her Ramallah home, the 22-year-old Christian Palestinian was dragged into the living room and bludgeoned to death with an iron bar. Her father was arrested for the murder.

Gentle Jesus, meek and mild!

There is no doubt that each of these belief systems plays a vital role in perpetuating an appalling contempt for women, but there are much older cultural forces at work.

What little regard we have for 50% of the species.

MtD

[Dragonette]

you're right Matty -  even the National Geographic says so.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html

Islam does not have a monopoly on atrocity. That's for sure.

[aliveinla]

I tend to think there is something more than just religion. The father might not have killed the daughter if the later simply dated someone not muslim. The British is viewed as invader, by most Iraqis.

Get them out of Iraq is the first thing need to be done. Then somehow we need to understand Muslim better and tolerate their belief if they can't evolve to our standard.

In one word, it's Bush's fault.

[Matty the Damned]

I tend to think there is something more than just religion. The father might not have killed the daughter if the later simply dated someone not muslim. The British is viewed as invader, by most Iraqis.

Get them out of Iraq is the first thing need to be done. Then somehow we need to understand Muslim better and tolerate their belief if they can't evolve to our standard.

In one word, it's Bush's fault.

Yeah and you might not have contracted AIDS if you didn't take it up the butt.

In three words; it's your fault.

MtD

[anniebc]

I tend to think there is something more than just religion. The father might not have killed the daughter if the later simply dated someone not muslim. The British is viewed as invader, by most Iraqis.

Get them out of Iraq is the first thing need to be done. Then somehow we need to understand Muslim better and tolerate their belief if they can't evolve to our standard.

In one word, it's Bush's fault.

That's a joke..right?

If not then that's the most ridiculous statement I have ever read..and I've been on these forums for 5 years.

Jan

[BT65]

Then somehow we need to understand Muslim better and tolerate their belief if they can't evolve to our standard.

In one word, it's Bush's fault.

We need to tolerate beliefs like that?  Come on, think about what you just said.

And Bush's fault?  I don't like Bush, but these horrendous practices were around long before Bush was.

[Okealyshire]

A while back I read Sam Harris's book The End of Faith. At first I thought his writing smacked of its own kind of fundamentalism. But slowly I came around to his way of thinking. In the modern scientific world of the 21st century, there should indeed be no tolerance for ancient superstitions that impose their rules on others and that encourage violent behavior. We now know why there are cyclones, we now know what eclipses are, we now know how diseases are caused. There simply are no supernatural supreme beings who require regular supplication by supine servants. Imagine how much better the world could be once everyone realizes this.

[aztecan]

I tend to think there is something more than just religion. The father might not have killed the daughter if the later simply dated someone not Muslim. The British is viewed as invader, by most Iraqis.

Get them out of Iraq is the first thing need to be done. Then somehow we need to understand Muslim better and tolerate their belief if they can't evolve to our standard.

In one word, it's Bush's fault.

You had to be joking when you wrote this.

Tolerance of homicide?

And, while I am certainly no fan of the current president, this can't be blamed on him. This is a long-standing cultural idiosyncrasy that is just abominable. The story included mention of how this is done to girls who commit similar offenses with Muslim boys too.

Just sayin . . .

Mark

[aliveinla]

For a while, I thought I might have read something different from what you all read... I always knew I think differently from most Americans, but now it seems I am also different from Australians or people from other more civilized countries that I am not aware of. I appologize if my thoughts might have upset anybody, I will shut up.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is each culture and religion needs to co-exist and understand each other. I don't mean the girl should die, but let's just pause for one minute and take in the fact that even police didn't persecute this. Is it possible for us to be open minded and think for a moment that in some culture maybe they think some things are more important than human lives? The father is very possibly thinking he did a good thing for his daughter. It's hard for people with western belief to understand but who can say for sure there is no life after death, or heaven? That's why they have those suicide bombers. -- I am totally against all these of course.

Many of the problems in the world, historically or currently, are caused by people misunderstand each other and try to force one's own belief onto others. It will be a much better world if we can leave each other alone.

[Queen Tokelove]

Hmm, well, I believe the spirit goes on after death but I'm not out planning on using myself as a human bomb to take out Muslims, Iraqis or whoever. I believe I'm tolerant of others religious preferences but I don't see how taking a life justifies itself because of one's religion. And on that note, maybe you should follow your own advice...."I will shut up."

[Dragonette]

yeah it would be just great to leave each other alone, so that the bullies, vandals and perverts of the world can roam free and do what they like, whether under the pretext of religion (extreme torture and abuse inflicted by Orthodox Jews on young children to "excorcise demons", even leading to brain death) or just cos they can (Austrian father lock girl up in cellar 24 years and rapes her while she continues to have his children in that cellar). That would be just brilliant. What a peaceful world of coexistence. Oh, and you have AIDS, that's too bad, now why would someone want to interfere with that, it must be cos you're an infidel/go against the Bible/did something bad in a former reincarnation/are possessed by a spirit. Let's just leave you alone (if we don't stone you to death or burn you). You just leave us alone and we'll leave you alone.

[David_CA]

Something's wrong here.  I'm not a parent, but I don't know any that wouldn't give their life for their child.  I'm also perfectly aware that there are parents who murder their children for things much less important than religion... like crying, but I'd like to think these parents have mental or substance abuse issues.  No, the major issue here is how women are viewed in many countries based on cultural or religious traditions.  It all reminds me of female circumcision and some of the 'facts' that are used to justify performing them.

Unlike what one member has posted here, I don't think tolerance needs to come from the outside world (us), it needs to start inside, with individuals, families, and religious leaders.  Obviously various countries, cultures, and religions need to get along, but surely we've evolved enough to practice tolerance... starting with our own children.

David

[GSOgymrat]

Anyway, what I am trying to say is each culture and religion needs to co-exist and understand each other. I don't mean the girl should die, but let's just pause for one minute and take in the fact that even police didn't persecute this. Is it possible for us to be open minded and think for a moment that in some culture maybe they think some things are more important than human lives? The father is very possibly thinking he did a good thing for his daughter. It's hard for people with western belief to understand but who can say for sure there is no life after death, or heaven? That's why they have those suicide bombers. -- I am totally against all these of course.

There is a difference between respecting cultures and cultural relativism. Murdering your daughter is morally wrong no matter how you are brought up or what your religious beliefs are. I could go on to explain why murdering your children is morally wrong but that really shouldn't be necessary.

I agree with what Okealyshire said earlier in this thread.

[Okealyshire]

Is it possible for us to be open minded and think for a moment that in some culture maybe they think some things are more important than human lives? The father is very possibly thinking he did a good thing for his daughter. It's hard for people with western belief to understand but who can say for sure there is no life after death, or heaven?

How can you possibly imagine that an "open mind" would countenance the kind of willful, wanton destruction the father engaged in? No, it is only a closed mind that can rationalize such behavior -- a mind closed to development, a mind closed to modernization. A mind taught to be closed by a system refusing to acknowledge that the advancement of human thinking eliminates the need to construct gods through which one can shirk individual responsibility.

Many of the problems in the world, historically or currently, are caused by people misunderstand each other and try to force one's own belief onto others. It will be a much better world if we can leave each other alone.

Quite the contrary, this deranged moron forced his own belief onto his daughter in the most permanent way imaginable.

[Okealyshire]

Further developments: now the mother falls victim. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/01/iraq

Leila Hussein lived her last few weeks in terror. Moving constantly from safe house to safe house, she dared to stay no longer than four days at each. It was the price she was forced to pay after denouncing and divorcing her husband - the man she witnessed suffocate, stamp on, then stab their young daughter Rand in a brutal 'honour' killing for which he has shown no remorse.

Though she feared reprisals for speaking out, she really believed that she would soon be safe. Arrangements were well under way to smuggle her to the Jordanian capital, Amman. In fact, she was on her way to meet the person who would help her escape when a car drew up alongside her and two other women who were walking her to a taxi. Five bullets were fired: three of them hit Leila, 41. She died in hospital after futile attempts to save her.

Utterly contemptuous and reprehensible. I'm as liberal as you can imagine, but examples like this strengthen my resolve that "religious intolerance" is inexcusable. Those who teach in favor of the behavior exhibited by these goons deserve the same fate as this brave unfortunate woman.

[Matty the Damned]

You can always identify yourself as a Bright.

MtD