Author Topic: Undetect - slept with a neg guy without protection and freaking out (Read 28852 times)

PozJeepGuy · « **Reply #50 on:** January 20, 2012, 03:15:38 pm »

If you did the right thing in the beginning you wouldn't be up all night and making yourself sick. You did this to yourself.

newt · « **Reply #51 on:** January 20, 2012, 03:42:04 pm »

If people don't like sex with condoms, then maybe they should just say they don't and get on with it.

It's not like people in this instance weren't wise to the risk. If you're old enouigh to get married and kill for king and country you are old enough to know about PEP, condoms etc, and old enough to tell people to go screw themselves, you's gona shag without condoms HIV or no HIV, boyfriend or no boyfriend. It may not be nice but it's clear.

Plus shag-then-guilt, there are many ways for this to play out, I bet both of you had sleepless nights.

The odds are very much in favour of no transmission with an undetectable viral load, although this is not the only factor.

It would be nice and simple if you'd said you were HIV-positive and he said he was HIV-negative at his last test but had gone raw since then (no doubt given his preferences) and both did what you did anyway, but you didn't. It doesn't change the risk.

I don't trust people who set store by their last negative test. Fucking around without condoms is fucking around without condoms.

The thing is here, for me, the truth/hiding about HIV status is neither here nor there. Regardless of disclosure, after the fact of screwing without condoms the anxieties are the same in my experience.

Get the sex you want with other people who want the same kind of sex, and be honest about the risks you accept and offer to yourself and people in doing so. It takes two to create a risk of HIV transmission. Being older does not create a greater moral obligation. Being older does not mean you have more sexual experience.

- matt

mecch · « **Reply #52 on:** January 20, 2012, 05:05:11 pm »

Quote from: newbie76 on January 19, 2012, 05:50:54 am

I guess I should feel somewhat relieved but I don't. Mainly because he said he will try to go, but i bet he won't, and if in 3 months it turns out he is +, he will think how weird of that guy texting the next day to suggest I should get PEP when he told me he was negative.

Maybe I should have just kept my trap shut, as someone suggested. TOo late now.

I am starting not to buy half your story.... Or maybe you are really naive. So, you texted him to get PEP. And you are wondering in writing, above to us, if he is going to think that was weird of you only after 3 months, if he is HIV+, (which he wont be, because you are undetectable...)

If you texted him to get PEP, my friend, he now knows you were a liar when you said you were negative.

mecch · « **Reply #53 on:** January 20, 2012, 05:09:30 pm »

Also, why not answer this question for us readers.

You were all worried about legal risks and then suddenly you put that all aside to tell him.

So why? Did you even find out if there are nondisclosure laws where you had sex??

There are no laws? So you told

Or there are laws, but just overcome with shame or guilt for lying, so you decided to tell??

Really I'm wondering if you might obsess about things but not follow through, letting your anxieties get the hold of you......But letting the anxieties shift from one set to another?

bocker3 · « **Reply #54 on:** January 20, 2012, 06:07:35 pm »

Quote from: mecch on January 20, 2012, 05:09:30 pm

Also, why not answer this question for us readers.

You were all worried about legal risks and then suddenly you put that all aside to tell him.

So why? Did you even find out if there are nondisclosure laws where you had sex??

There are no laws? So you told

Or there are laws, but just overcome with shame or guilt for lying, so you decided to tell??

Really I'm wondering if you might obsess about things but not follow through, letting your anxieties get the hold of you......But letting the anxieties shift from one set to another?

Why are you hounding this guy? Questioning and second-guessing him serves no purpose for him -- it only fills your need for endless information about others. Back off........
Read the whole thread and some of your questions, i.e. laws, will become clear to you.

Mike

LM · « **Reply #55 on:** January 20, 2012, 06:13:29 pm »

Quote from: newt on January 20, 2012, 03:42:04 pm

If people don't like sex with condoms, then maybe they should just say they don't and get on with it.

It's not like people in this instance weren't wise to the risk. If you're old enouigh to get married and kill for king and country you are old enough to know about PEP, condoms etc, and old enough to tell people to go screw themselves, you's gona shag without condoms HIV or no HIV, boyfriend or no boyfriend. It may not be nice but it's clear.

Plus shag-then-guilt, there are many ways for this to play out, I bet both of you had sleepless nights.

The odds are very much in favour of no transmission with an undetectable viral load, although this is not the only factor.

It would be nice and simple if you'd said you were HIV-positive and he said he was HIV-negative at his last test but had gone raw since then (no doubt given his preferences) and both did what you did anyway, but you didn't. It doesn't change the risk.

I don't trust people who set store by their last negative test. Fucking around without condoms is fucking around without condoms.

The thing is here, for me, the truth/hiding about HIV status is neither here nor there. Regardless of disclosure, after the fact of screwing without condoms the anxieties are the same in my experience.

Get the sex you want with other people who want the same kind of sex, and be honest about the risks you accept and offer to yourself and people in doing so. It takes two to create a risk of HIV transmission. Being older does not create a greater moral obligation. Being older does not mean you have more sexual experience.

- matt

Bravo. Just that.

PozJeepGuy · « **Reply #56 on:** January 20, 2012, 06:19:57 pm »

Why are people givIng him a hard time? Really, he choose to up front lie about his status, that's why. If anyone ever asks me if I'm poz I say yes. It has killed my sex and dating life. I would never do this to someone else and to do so is wrong on so many levels. So when I hear someone admit I lied to get laid, be lucky everyone isn't saying more direct comments.

bocker3 · « **Reply #57 on:** January 20, 2012, 06:34:50 pm »

Quote from: PozJeepGuy on January 20, 2012, 06:19:57 pm

Why are people givIng him a hard time? Really, he choose to up front lie about his status, that's why. If anyone ever asks me if I'm poz I say yes. It has killed my sex and dating life. I would never do this to someone else and to do so is wrong on so many levels. So when I hear someone admit I lied to get laid, be lucky everyone isn't saying more direct comments.

Yes -- it is so very easy to judge, isn't it. Casting the first stone and all.

However -- my comment was on someone who wasn't being so black and white as you, but merely hounding the OP and "not buying his story".......

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #58 on:** January 20, 2012, 06:41:11 pm »

Quote from: PozJeepGuy on January 20, 2012, 06:19:57 pm

Why are people givIng him a hard time? Really, he choose to up front lie about his status, that's why. If anyone ever asks me if I'm poz I say yes. It has killed my sex and dating life. I would never do this to someone else and to do so is wrong on so many levels. So when I hear someone admit I lied to get laid, be lucky everyone isn't saying more direct comments.

Perhaps you should start a thread about this. It would be sad to have your obvious superiority overshadowed in the middle of a thread started by a puny human who made an mistake.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #59 on:** January 20, 2012, 08:26:50 pm »

Quote from: MiniPozToyota on January 19, 2012, 09:13:31 pm

you had unprotected sex knowing you were poz enough said....

Have you ever done so... I distinctly remember you telling me had done so.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #60 on:** January 20, 2012, 08:28:07 pm »

Quote from: PozJeepGuy on January 20, 2012, 06:19:57 pm

Why are people givIng him a hard time? Really, he choose to up front lie about his status, that's why. If anyone ever asks me if I'm poz I say yes. It has killed my sex and dating life. I would never do this to someone else and to do so is wrong on so many levels. So when I hear someone admit I lied to get laid, be lucky everyone isn't saying more direct comments.

So why don't you use a condom -- they don't transmit sex you know unless you don't believe what is told to you by the cdc and this forum.

skeebo1969 · « **Reply #61 on:** January 20, 2012, 08:36:06 pm »

Quote from: PozJeepGuy on January 20, 2012, 06:19:57 pm

Why are people givIng him a hard time? Really, he choose to up front lie about his status, that's why. If anyone ever asks me if I'm poz I say yes. It has killed my sex and dating life. I would never do this to someone else and to do so is wrong on so many levels. So when I hear someone admit I lied to get laid, be lucky everyone isn't saying more direct comments.

Give yourself some time living with this disease and you'll learn this kind of judgement from within the poz community serves no purpose. Let this man be the judge of his own actions. He is sharing an experience which he is remorseful over.

It's a lesson learned the hard way.

If you take a look at yourself Jakey, good and hard mind you.. you will find that a lot of your own unhappiness, difficulties with taking meds, and feelings about this guy are all intertwined.

Trust me on this.

Joe K · « **Reply #62 on:** January 20, 2012, 08:39:17 pm »

Some of you folks seem to have sanctimonious condescension down pat. Just remember your responses the next time you need some understanding from the forum.

Joe

odyssey · « **Reply #63 on:** January 20, 2012, 08:56:08 pm »

Quote from: PozJeepGuy on January 20, 2012, 06:19:57 pm

Why are people givIng him a hard time? Really, he choose to up front lie about his status, that's why. If anyone ever asks me if I'm poz I say yes. It has killed my sex and dating life. I would never do this to someone else and to do so is wrong on so many levels. So when I hear someone admit I lied to get laid, be lucky everyone isn't saying more direct comments.

I have to agree. Not telling is one thing, but outright lying and saying you're neg and then proceeding to bareback someone, regardless of VL, is ethically reprehensible. I think you owe him the knowledge that he did in fact sleep with someone HIV pozitive.

Here's a website where you can send anonymous email notices to tell your tricks you have HIV (or a variety of other STDs). It says its just for the US and Canada, but I don't see why someone in Britain can't use it! Please use it and consider how you are going to change your behavior in the future (hopefully).

http://www.inspot.org/TellThem/tabid/58/language/en-US/Default.aspx

Joe K · « **Reply #64 on:** January 20, 2012, 09:39:18 pm »

I'd be curious to know why some members think it's beneficial to pile on this guy, for making a mistake, acknowledging the moral implications and seeking a solution to his problem? I would think that society would be best served by people being able to honestly express their issues and to explore the emotions that we all experience. I'm the last guy to throw stones, but even if I could, what purpose would it serve?

I like to think that part of the power of this forum is to help folks recognize honest behavior and to act accordingly. Somehow, castigating someone for doing something, that "other than the hand of fate go I" seems totally self-defeating. If you wonder why so much stigma remains about HIV, look no further than threads like these, with some members promoting that very stigma against fellow members.

The OP was not looking for forgiveness, he was looking for understanding. Even if he was, nobody here is even remotely qualified to offer it.

Joe

Rev. Moon · « **Reply #65 on:** January 20, 2012, 10:31:22 pm »

The amount of judgmental opinions thrown around by a couple of people in this thread is quite appalling and incredibly hypocritical. The OP made a mistake, we get that; we don't need some of you to be casting stones with your delicate and oh-so-mature hands. If you have issues of your own there is no need to project them on this other member.

Stop judging for fuck's sakes; no one here is an anointed messiah or canonized saint last time I checked.

numbersguy82 · « **Reply #66 on:** January 20, 2012, 10:41:11 pm »

I feel for the OP. I feel like everyone should use protection even if in a relationship. I also think as adults we have a choice in our actions, and the risk of having unprotected sex is a serious decision even if in a relationship. What if you were poz since the last check up? How many other guys has he asked to not use a condom since he hates them? Maybe he's poz and doesn't even know it?

Personally I think you worrying about being sued or prosecuted should take a back seat to doing the right things. Be honest and admit to him that you made an error in judgment or even be more vague than that. Just let him know to get tested for his own health. Perhaps an anonymous disclosure service could assist? I don't think there is an easy fix in this situation. More likely than not your relationship is over. You could have infected this guy. Also you have a heavy weight bearing down on your conscience. I think the only solution is to come clean and accept the consequences if any. I only say this because you have your own mental well being to consider and something like this could haunt you needlessly. Good luck and I hope you find a solution that you personally can live with.

Growler · « **Reply #67 on:** January 20, 2012, 10:55:26 pm »

They say if you left a hundred monkeys in a room in front of a hundred keyboards for a hundred years you'd eventually get the complete works of Shakespeare. As evidenced here I'd suggest you're more likely to get a room full of monkeys flinging their shit at each other.

GROWLER

Edited to fix format and to add a word or 2 missed in haste

wolfter · « **Reply #68 on:** January 20, 2012, 11:13:50 pm »

Quote from: Growler on January 20, 2012, 10:55:26 pm

They say if you left a hundred monkeys in a room in front of a hundred keyboards for a hundred years you'd eventually get the complete works of Shakespeare. As evidenced here I'd suggest you're more likely to get a room full of monkeys flinging their shit at each other.

GROWLER

Edited to fix format and to add a word or 2 missed in haste

In some states, that's a criminal offense if you're HIV positive. Sorry, wasn't going to join in this cluster fuck of opinions and judgments, but this struck my fancy.

Wolfie

numbersguy82 · « **Reply #69 on:** January 20, 2012, 11:27:18 pm »

Quote from: wolfter on January 20, 2012, 11:13:50 pm

In some states, that's a criminal offense if you're HIV positive. Sorry, wasn't going to join in this cluster fuck of opinions and judgments, but this struck my fancy.

Wolfie

Agreed Wolfie... I wasn't about to read the comments either. It appears the OP has already made some decisions, but I just wanted to throw my opinion out there in case he was still questioning things. I guess we are one big dysfuntional and opinionated family and thats probably why people like to post here. It's a nice mix of people

PozJeepGuy · « **Reply #70 on:** January 21, 2012, 01:07:06 am »

I'm not saying what I don't practice. And the story I told in the past was right before I tested poz I slept with someone but, guess what I went back and told him. I just saying the lying was wrong. That's why he can't sleep and that's a good thing. It means he acknowledges his actions were wrong. I'm not haten on him at all. I applaud you for owning it. But to make it right you need to tell him. Maybe not in person but like that website some one early posted.

To take away some ones choice to be face with this is wrong. You hold the power to speak up. I know what it feels like to be on a date drop the bomb and see that panic look on his face. Probably one of the reasons I stop dating for a while because it hurt.

Yes I judge his action. I am not judging you. I am no better than anyone in this world. We share in all the good, sad, lonely and the bad. Calling a action out isn't a bad thing. We grow more from our mistakes than anything else

spacebarsux · « **Reply #71 on:** January 21, 2012, 01:44:23 am »

The OP knew what he did was terrible and wrong and he came here for help. I mean, where the fuck was he supposed to go, if not a place like this???!

Yeah, so he slipped up and didn’t wear a condom and put someone at risk which is awful, sick, appalling, criminal (maybe) etc- but he was also pent up with guilt and came here to see if there was a way at all to reverse what happened. I think it does take some very hard balls to pin up a thread like this, even if it’s an attempt to clear one’s conscience. Also, is it so unfathomable to end up not wearing a condom when one is intoxicated with passion ??Yeah, it's reckless in the extreme but it's not pure evil- not to my mind at least.

What purpose does it serve for anyone to cast judgment on this board is beyond me. It doesn’t help the OP, doesn't help the 21 year old (supposedly neg) guy, or anyone else- that's how I feel anyway.

Shoot me for trying to help him out but I felt for him.

I’d been in contact with an HIV treatment advocate at “i-base” UK since my diagnosis and I emailed that person requesting him for any info that I could pass on to the OP. The treatment advocate gave me some useful information and said it was fine by him to put up this info on poz.com. However, I exercised my discretion and PM’d the OP instead.

I told him I'd got some reliable info for his situation (from someone knowledgeable about how things work in the UK) and this is what it is:

i) You can't say 'next to zero risk'. There is no data in gay men. Hopefully, similar to vaginal heterosexual risk, this is greatly reduced compared to not being on treatment. But there is no data to reliably say how low this risk goes and there have been case reports where transmission has been reported despite undetectable VL.

ii) You can not be prosecuted in the UK unless transmission occurs. I agree that this couple would have to be incredibly unlucky for this to happen and that the risk is probably 1 in several thousand or lower. A legal case would also want to know why the negative partner didn't use a condom. For a negative person not to use a condom, might also mean he has taken other risks since his last 6 monthly check-up. If the pos guy lied and said he was negative, this is a different situation.

iii) The circumstances, and the personalities of the people involved can vary so widely that only this person can decide what to do. There is an anonymous way of contacting partners, run by GMFA in the UK - they have info on their website and also gaydar I think. So that is one option. If someone told me this way rather than face to face I would be more mad though.

iv) This is why it is easier on so many levels to be upfront about your status before you have sex, even if it means a few rejections. With other issues of guilt, this person is trying to make himself feel better by dumping his issues on the other partner. It is similar to having an affair and running back to tell your partner. The partner doesn't usually feel better - it is just a way of dealing with guilt.

v) PEP as an option should be available at any clinic in the UK. If the neg guy feels worried because he didn't use a condom, he should already know this, and may even have accessed it. If the poz guy lied about his status and said he was negative, this would be a reason to contact the other partner to suggest this.

Please use this info if you like to on the post.
--------------------------
The OP thanked me for obtaining the info for him and told me the neg 21 year old has assured him he's going to take PEP.

Maybe some of you think I was too overzealous in trying to help the OP, but the way I look at things- this forum is more about giving support and less about casting judgment.

@Mecch- I hope this explains partly why the OP didn't bother with responding to your incessant interrogation.

newbie76 · « **Reply #72 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:05:00 am »

I am currently travelling and don't have reliable access to the Internet, so I hope you will understand this is the only reason I have not posted for a couple of days.

As someone else already said, I did not come here for absolution, rather for advice on what I should do, and I got some very good advice from some of you.

I am very aware I made an unforgivable mistake, and even though I believe each person should protect himself regardless of what his partner tells him about his status, I know I lied about being positive and therefore I was putting this person at risk.

I have insisted he gets PEP, and told him I would do the same, as I did not want to face possible criminal implications linked to me lying about my status.

To me the only thing that matters is that he takes PEP; the way to achieve that is irrelevant. He assured me he will. As someone already said, short of dragging him to a&e by the collar, this is all I can do.

I am now trying to put this episode behind, so you will all forgive me if I won't dwell too much on this thread and defend myself from some people's accusations.

mecch · « **Reply #73 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:59:10 am »

Quote from: newbie76 on January 18, 2012, 11:28:44 pm

What if I text him to get pep? Can he sue me after if he catches it anyway? The ironic thing is that the guy studied criminology for f*ck sake!
What if he chooses not to take pep but wants to prosecute me for lying to him?
Please help.

Quote from: newbie76 on January 21, 2012, 05:05:00 am

I have insisted he gets PEP, and told him I would do the same, as I did not want to face possible criminal implications linked to me lying about my status.

The OP was worried about LEGAL risks 2nd to his worry and guilt and shame about the act and possible transmission.
My questions were meant to ascertain the actual legal risks in his location, so as to address this part of the overwhelming number of anxieties the OP presented.

The legal info seem to have been delivered to him via private messaging, and not to the thread itself.

Now, however, we have the pertinent info in the thread, thank you spacebarsux.

Quote from: spacebarsux on January 21, 2012, 01:44:23 am

ii) You can not be prosecuted in the UK unless transmission occurs. I agree that this couple would have to be incredibly unlucky for this to happen and that the risk is probably 1 in several thousand or lower. A legal case would also want to know why the negative partner didn't use a condom. For a negative person not to use a condom, might also mean he has taken other risks since his last 6 monthly check-up. If the pos guy lied and said he was negative, this is a different situation.

--------------------------
The OP thanked me for obtaining the info for him and told me the neg 21 year old has assured him he's going to take PEP.

Maybe some of you think I was too overzealous in trying to help the OP, but the way I look at things- this forum is more about giving support and less about casting judgment.

@Mecch- I hope this explains partly why the OP didn't bother with responding to your incessant interrogation.

You could see this as incessant but it was part and parcel of the QUESTIONS the OP asked. The info was necessary, and in fact seems to have led to the decision, and a good one.

Generally, many many people come to this Forum with these fears of legal issues of having sex and being positive.

I feel that one of the most constructive responses to such fears and anxiety is to get exact legal information about the place where one is having sex.

That's all.

As for the OP, my questions were not to "learn about his private life" but 1st, before he took a decision, suggest he get the legal information.
And then 2, after he reported his decision, but did not mention his original legal concerns, why this was so. But, it seems the legal concerns were addressed. And bravo.

Glad all went well.

This forums is read by many many people who have less understanding than regular contributors, such as those contributing to this thread.

What if a person read this thread, had a similar issue, and lived in an American state, where there are hideous possible legal ramifications for nondisclosure. And this person decides to tell, to correct a moral failing. Might indeed be bad decision.

That's all.

mecch · « **Reply #74 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:20:22 am »

Quote from: newbie76 on January 21, 2012, 05:05:00 am

I have insisted he gets PEP, and told him I would do the same, as I did not want to face possible criminal implications linked to me lying about my status.

To me the only thing that matters is that he takes PEP; the way to achieve that is irrelevant. He assured me he will. As someone already said, short of dragging him to a&e by the collar, this is all I can do.

And just so we are all clear on the final decision.

OP - you did not tell him you are HIV+. You told him something along the line of "we both should get PEP." Whatever that might mean. (Obviously you don't need it because....) Im guessing the other guy is supposed to gather that you "don't know" your status.

Anyway I hope you take the advice of a few people above and go back to examine what happened at the moment the condoms came off. It might have been something entirely related to the moment. Or it might be a general thing that was activated at that situation.

And its good now you know the legal issues in your locality so can factor them into your Modus Operandi, which should radically reduce the anxiety level so sex can be fun and when appropriate, forgettable.

bocker3 · « **Reply #75 on:** January 21, 2012, 09:33:34 am »

Quote from: mecch on January 21, 2012, 06:20:22 am

And just so we are all clear on the final decision.

OP - you did not tell him you are HIV+. You told him something along the line of "we both should get PEP." Whatever that might mean. (Obviously you don't need it because....) Im guessing the other guy is supposed to gather that you "don't know" your status.

Anyway I hope you take the advice of a few people above and go back to examine what happened at the moment the condoms came off. It might have been something entirely related to the moment. Or it might be a general thing that was activated at that situation.

And its good now you know the legal issues in your locality so can factor them into your Modus Operandi, which should radically reduce the anxiety level so sex can be fun and when appropriate, forgettable.

What are you.... a damned court recorder?? you want to make sure we are all clear on his final decision?? You are really being over the top in this thread -- even for you.

Then you go on to snidely comment on how he handled it "whatever that means" -- get over yourself Mary.

He said he wants to put this behind him -- then you come in, not once, but twice, quote from the very entry where he states that he is done with this and blather on more. You'll say you were being judgemental, but from here it sounds like it. Leave him alone would you. He has his own conscience to deal with and that was why he came here. Not to help you with your need for clarity.

M

newbie76 · « **Reply #76 on:** January 21, 2012, 12:16:14 pm »

Quote from: bocker3 on January 21, 2012, 09:33:34 am

What are you.... a damned court recorder?? you want to make sure we are all clear on his final decision?? You are really being over the top in this thread -- even for you.

Then you go on to snidely comment on how he handled it "whatever that means" -- get over yourself Mary.

He said he wants to put this behind him -- then you come in, not once, but twice, quote from the very entry where he states that he is done with this and blather on more. You'll say you were being judgemental, but from here it sounds like it. Leave him alone would you. He has his own conscience to deal with and that was why he came here. Not to help you with your need for clarity.

M

Thank you Bocker3.

I know I made a mistake, and I have tried to repair it as best as I could. To me the priority was that this guy got PEP, and I hope I have achieved that.

I will deal with my conscience in my own terms. Confessing to this guy I lied to him, might have been the "right thing to do" by Mecch -and lots of other posters on here- standards but it would mean I might become subject to serious legal implications.

I understand it's easy to say what people would do if they were me, and for many this means confessing everything and bear the consequences, but it is one thing giving advice on a forum, something else being in that situation.

If Mecch and others would at this point have come clean to the guy and told him they had lied about their status, hats off to them. Once again, all I cared about was for this guy to take PEP.

Joe K · « **Reply #77 on:** January 21, 2012, 02:22:31 pm »

Quote from: newbie76 on January 21, 2012, 12:16:14 pm

Thank you Bocker3.

I know I made a mistake, and I have tried to repair it as best as I could. To me the priority was that this guy got PEP, and I hope I have achieved that.

I will deal with my conscience in my own terms. Confessing to this guy I lied to him, might have been the "right thing to do" by Mecch -and lots of other posters on here- standards but it would mean I might become subject to serious legal implications.

I understand it's easy to say what people would do if they were me, and for many this means confessing everything and bear the consequences, but it is one thing giving advice on a forum, something else being in that situation.

If Mecch and others would at this point have come clean to the guy and told him they had lied about their status, hats off to them. Once again, all I cared about was for this guy to take PEP.

Hey New,

I'm glad you have the ability to look past some of the comments here and to me, it's obvious that this situation was very troubling for you. I think it speaks volumes as to your true character, that even when you did something that you "felt" was wrong, you had the backbone to accept your responsibility and to do what you believed was the right thing to do. Yes, for some folks, it's very easy to judge the actions of others, but if we refuse to acknowledge that we are all unique and insist on there only being so many ways to do something, we risk becoming untrue to those morals that we hold.

I think some of the problem lies with the medium, as the written word can become very cold and imprecise at times. I do however, think that no matter what words are used, you can generally get a sense of what the poster is trying to say and I believe you stated your case remarkably well. I get a sense that you obtained a lot more than just answers to your initial questions and in the end, that is all that counts. I think you will be more careful in the future, about many things, because you took the time to examine your actions and decided that you didn't like what you witnessed. Most important is that you took direct actions and that tells me more about your character, than even you might realize.

Joe

newbie76 · « **Reply #78 on:** January 21, 2012, 02:37:56 pm »

Quote from: killfoile on January 21, 2012, 02:22:31 pm

Hey New,

I'm glad you have the ability to look past some of the comments here and to me, it's obvious that this situation was very troubling for you. I think it speaks volumes as to your true character, that even when you did something that you "felt" was wrong, you had the backbone to accept your responsibility and to do what you believed was the right thing to do. Yes, for some folks, it's very easy to judge the actions of others, but if we refuse to acknowledge that we are all unique and insist on there only being so many ways to do something, we risk becoming untrue to those morals that we hold.

I think some of the problem lies with the medium, as the written word can become very cold and imprecise at times. I do however, think that no matter what words are used, you can generally get a sense of what the poster is trying to say and I believe you stated your case remarkably well. I get a sense that you obtained a lot more than just answers to your initial questions and in the end, that is all that counts. I think you will be more careful in the future, about many things, because you took the time to examine your actions and decided that you didn't like what you witnessed. Most important is that you took direct actions and that tells me more about your character, than even you might realize.

Joe

Thank you Joe, what you wrote means a lot to me.

For every accusatory comment, I got at least 2 positive and encouraging ones, either on this thread or sent to me by private message.

I understand this is not a black or white situation and there are many ways to deal with it. I respect and admire who would have the courage to come clean to the guy, but I am happy with the way I chose.

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #79 on:** January 21, 2012, 02:47:32 pm »

Quote from: killfoile on January 20, 2012, 08:39:17 pm

Some of you folks seem to have sanctimonious condescension down pat. Just remember your responses the next time you need some understanding from the forum.

Joe

I was trying to form this exact same sentence. Thanks, Joe.

Rest assured, I certainly won't forget who's who in this thread.

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #80 on:** January 21, 2012, 02:49:28 pm »

Quote from: Miss Philicia on January 20, 2012, 08:26:50 pm

Have you ever done so... I distinctly remember you telling me had done so.

Exactly. The people who are the most self righteous are the very ones who believe their "victim" status absolves them from any personal culpability.

mecch · « **Reply #81 on:** January 21, 2012, 02:52:15 pm »

Quote from: newbie76 on January 21, 2012, 12:16:14 pm

Thank you Bocker3.

I know I made a mistake, and I have tried to repair it as best as I could. To me the priority was that this guy got PEP, and I hope I have achieved that.

I will deal with my conscience in my own terms. Confessing to this guy I lied to him, might have been the "right thing to do" by Mecch -and lots of other posters on here- standards but it would mean I might become subject to serious legal implications.

I understand it's easy to say what people would do if they were me, and for many this means confessing everything and bear the consequences, but it is one thing giving advice on a forum, something else being in that situation.

If Mecch and others would at this point have come clean to the guy and told him they had lied about their status, hats off to them. Once again, all I cared about was for this guy to take PEP.

Hey you have totally misread what I said in this thread. I thought, given the situation, and the legal risks, I wouldn't have said anything.
I think you did pretty well. You got the information you needed here about the transmission risk, and you got the information about the legal risks, and you moved forward.
Some people in this thread seemed to be saying you should tell the guy the truth. My last post was merely pointed out that you chose the wisest course for both interested parties, because you avoided the truth but told him to get PEP. (If your only concern was making sure he got PEP, then you would have told him after the fact, in this recent contact, that you do indeed have HIV and the risk of transmission is low and he should make up his own mind. But your choice makes sense given the legal risk and low risk of transmission.)
I hope all this information reduces your anxiety and leads to choices you are more comfortable with in the future.

bocker3 · « **Reply #82 on:** January 21, 2012, 03:27:09 pm »

Quote from: mecch on January 21, 2012, 02:52:15 pm

(If your only concern was making sure he got PEP, then you would have told him after the fact, in this recent contact, that you do indeed have HIV and the risk of transmission is low and he should make up his own mind. But your choice makes sense given the legal risk and low risk of transmission.)

You are un-fucking-believeable............. here you go again, second guessing the OP. Doubting that his only concern for the other party was that he get PEP by snidely commenting on what you thought should have happened for this to be true. Your constant judging and inability to see anything outside your view is, quite frankly astounding to me. Everytime you throw in a few words of understanding, you add things like this that completely uncover your true intent. Perhaps, YOU should read this entire thread again and then just close it and move on.
Look, I know you pay little attention to anything I say -- but there are a number of others who are also speaking about you in this thread. Perhaps you should take heed........

Mike

newbie76 · « **Reply #83 on:** January 21, 2012, 03:58:24 pm »

Quote from: mecch on January 21, 2012, 02:52:15 pm

Hey you have totally misread what I said in this thread. I thought, given the situation, and the legal risks, I wouldn't have said anything.
I think you did pretty well. You got the information you needed here about the transmission risk, and you got the information about the legal risks, and you moved forward.
Some people in this thread seemed to be saying you should tell the guy the truth. My last post was merely pointed out that you chose the wisest course for both interested parties, because you avoided the truth but told him to get PEP. (If your only concern was making sure he got PEP, then you would have told him after the fact, in this recent contact, that you do indeed have HIV and the risk of transmission is low and he should make up his own mind. But your choice makes sense given the legal risk and low risk of transmission.)
I hope all this information reduces your anxiety and leads to choices you are more comfortable with in the future.

I have re-read all of your posts on this thread (please go back and see post #35), and I can say without the shadow of a doubt that yours were the comments which hurt me the most. So I doubt I have misread you or misinterpreted your words, even if in the last post you seem to have changed your tune somehow.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, of course. I came to this forum right after the facts happened, at 4.30 in the morning, while I was throwing up in the toilet and having cold sweats once the possible implications of what I had done came to my mind; looking for advice from people sharing my condition.

You chose to throw all sort of judgements and accusations at me, which I say again, you are entitled to. I just hope when you will have a problem and decide to look for support or compassion in this forum, people will be more kind than what you have been to me.

Growler · « **Reply #84 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:42:10 pm »

Where's Jerry Springer when you need him?

GROWLER

Rev. Moon · « **Reply #85 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:53:11 pm »

Quote from: Growler on January 21, 2012, 04:42:10 pm

Where's Jerry Springer when you need him?

GROWLER

He's been kinda busy lately bashing conservatards.

Joe K · « **Reply #86 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:26:08 pm »

Quote from: mecch on January 21, 2012, 02:52:15 pm

Hey you have totally misread what I said in this thread. I thought, given the situation, and the legal risks, I wouldn't have said anything.
I think you did pretty well. You got the information you needed here about the transmission risk, and you got the information about the legal risks, and you moved forward.
Some people in this thread seemed to be saying you should tell the guy the truth. My last post was merely pointed out that you chose the wisest course for both interested parties, because you avoided the truth but told him to get PEP. (If your only concern was making sure he got PEP, then you would have told him after the fact, in this recent contact, that you do indeed have HIV and the risk of transmission is low and he should make up his own mind. But your choice makes sense given the legal risk and low risk of transmission.)
I hope all this information reduces your anxiety and leads to choices you are more comfortable with in the future.

Do you speak like this in person? I can't imagine anything more rude and condescending than your comments throughout this thread. Poor Mike has become a pretzel in trying to get you to understand what you are doing. Apparently subtly will not work, so how about this:

Which part of "WE DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS WHAT YOU APPROVE OF" don't you understand?

At times you add new meaning to the term "thick as a brick", and that whooshing sound you hear is all of this going above your head.

If you are half the man you think you are, then you owe Newbie76 and some members of this forum an apology.

Joe

Dachshund · « **Reply #87 on:** January 21, 2012, 05:33:02 pm »

Quote from: newbie76 on January 21, 2012, 03:58:24 pm

I have re-read all of your posts on this thread (please go back and see post #35), and I can say without the shadow of a doubt that yours were the comments which hurt me the most. So I doubt I have misread you or misinterpreted your words, even if in the last post you seem to have changed your tune somehow.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, of course. I came to this forum right after the facts happened, at 4.30 in the morning, while I was throwing up in the toilet and having cold sweats once the possible implications of what I had done came to my mind; looking for advice from people sharing my condition.

You chose to throw all sort of judgements and accusations at me, which I say again, you are entitled to. I just hope when you will have a problem and decide to look for support or compassion in this forum, people will be more kind than what you have been to me.

Don't pay any attention to Meech. It's just another example of his pseudo-intellectual blathering.

Nextdoor_guy · « **Reply #88 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:54:35 pm »

Dudes, chill the F*** up
at the end of the day, we are all pozzies, dealing with this shit, and many others coming from the people around us, and society

Grow up and stop being like some bored housewives commenting and arguing on stupid things.

Nextdoor_guy · « **Reply #89 on:** January 21, 2012, 06:59:38 pm »

p.s I thought that this is a "serious" Forum, where you can get opinions and share your stories with other folks that know what we're being through

not a place to express your frustrations and feed your ego.

so peace off : )

skeebo1969 · « **Reply #90 on:** January 21, 2012, 07:21:36 pm »

Quote from: Nextdoor_guy on January 21, 2012, 06:59:38 pm

so peace off : )

You said it wrong...... It's "peace out".

And then you quickly log off like this...

click

le_liseur · « **Reply #91 on:** January 22, 2012, 12:33:03 am »

This thread is somewhat derailing because of the comments of some, but I'm glad you received good advices and help from members of this forum, Newbie.

Like some posters said, I think it would be healthy to look back at what you were thinking and feeling and doing when that young guy asked you about your status/need of a condom. He was old enough to understand what not wearing a condom means. It's good you reminded him of PEP, but then again, assuring you he would do it without questioning you about your status makes me feel like he already knew the deal about PEP.

One thing I wonder is how he, on the other side, might have put you at risk for other infections. Being young doesn't mean he might not already have his own luggages, especially since he stated he would rather do it bare than safe... Think of getting a checkup sometime soon, to know if you're all fine.

tednlou2 · « **Reply #92 on:** January 22, 2012, 12:52:21 am »

Quote from: le_liseur on January 22, 2012, 12:33:03 am

One thing I wonder is how he, on the other side, might have put you at risk for other infections. Being young doesn't mean he might not already have his own luggages, especially since he stated he would rather do it bare than safe... Think of getting a checkup sometime soon, to know if you're all fine.

This is something that I thought about, but thought it didn't seem pertinent to the topic. But, after thinking more about it, you are probably more likely to have gotten something from him. And, wouldn't that just be how it would go.

Newbie, all the best moving forward!

newbie76 · « **Reply #93 on:** January 22, 2012, 02:21:58 am »

Quote from: le_liseur on January 22, 2012, 12:33:03 am

This thread is somewhat derailing because of the comments of some, but I'm glad you received good advices and help from members of this forum, Newbie.

Like some posters said, I think it would be healthy to look back at what you were thinking and feeling and doing when that young guy asked you about your status/need of a condom. He was old enough to understand what not wearing a condom means. It's good you reminded him of PEP, but then again, assuring you he would do it without questioning you about your status makes me feel like he already knew the deal about PEP.

One thing I wonder is how he, on the other side, might have put you at risk for other infections. Being young doesn't mean he might not already have his own luggages, especially since he stated he would rather do it bare than safe... Think of getting a checkup sometime soon, to know if you're all fine.

Well I have had fever for 3 days now and feeling kinda cr*p.

I am not saying the guy was responsible for it, but I am gonna try and book an appointment for a sexual check-up as soon as I am back on my feet.

Thank you.

spacebarsux · « **Reply #94 on:** January 22, 2012, 02:31:49 am »

Quote from: newbie76 on January 22, 2012, 02:21:58 am

Well I have had fever for 3 days now and feeling kinda cr*p.

It might just be your pent up angst and nothing more.

tc

odyssey · « **Reply #95 on:** January 26, 2012, 06:28:14 pm »

Don't stress too much dude, you mistake isn't "unforgivable" like you claim. We all screw up and sometimes our screwups are bigger than we feel okay with. The important thing is you made sure he got PEP. That's showing good caring and stuff. Try not to let it eat you up inside too much. You can't undo it, just like none of us can go back and undo whatever it is we did that got us infected.

I wish I could undo some things in my life, but it ain't gonna happen. To torture yourself over something you can't undo will just make you miserable. I believe you're a good guy. If you weren't, you wouldn't give a rats ass what potential risk your partner was in. And I'm sorry if I came off rudely, I realize you needed support not criticism. I for one am committed to being here to support my fellow pozzies, even when we fuck up.

All the best mate,
odyssey

newbie76 · « **Reply #96 on:** January 27, 2012, 11:16:13 am »

Odissey, thank you for your words.

I am trying to put this episode behind, as much as possible.

AdonisSMU · « **Reply #97 on:** January 28, 2012, 11:36:21 am »

Your story helped me. Thx.

odyssey · « **Reply #98 on:** January 30, 2012, 08:48:06 pm »

Quote from: newbie76 on January 27, 2012, 11:16:13 am

Odissey, thank you for your words.

I am trying to put this episode behind, as much as possible.

You're welcome! I hope you continue to post here, its great to see new faces on the forums!

Joe K · « **Reply #99 on:** January 30, 2012, 09:29:41 pm »

Quote from: newbie76 on January 27, 2012, 11:16:13 am

I am trying to put this episode behind, as much as possible.

I'm going to suggest that you hold onto this memory and here's why. I think we need all the support we can get, especially the kind we give to ourselves. As painful as this memory may be, the response it engendered in you, is something to be savored and treasured. I believe it is important to remember that even negative events can have meaningful resolutions and it actively supports your ability to act in accordance with your own moral code. This event evoked from you the very best you have to offer. Memories should be ranked in order of importance and my guess is, that right now, this one is one of your tops, so keep it close for now. It will fade when you no longer need it.

Joe

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